15:02:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
15:02:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/08-egov-irc
15:02:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
15:02:11 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
15:02:11 <trackbot> Date: 08 October 2008
15:02:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #egov
15:02:30 <josema> chair: john, kevin
15:02:34 <josema> scribe: josema
15:02:44 <josema> zakim, who's here?
15:02:44 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I don't know what conference this is
15:02:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, josema, John, kjetil, trackbot
15:03:06 <josema> zakim, this is egov
15:03:07 <Zakim> ok, josema; that matches T&S_EGOV()11:00AM
15:03:14 <josema> zakim, who's here?
15:03:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see +0203334aaaa
15:03:30 <josema> zakim, call josema-office
15:03:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, josema, John, kjetil, trackbot
15:03:41 <Zakim> ok, josema; the call is being made
15:03:44 <Zakim> +Josema
15:04:15 <josema> zakim, aaaa is john
15:04:28 <josema> zakim, who's here?
15:04:38 <Zakim> +john; got it
15:04:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema
15:05:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, josema, John, kjetil, trackbot
15:07:20 <josema> q?
15:07:34 <Zakim> + +1.202.626.aabb
15:07:38 <josema> zakim, who's here?
15:07:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, +1.202.626.aabb
15:07:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, josema, John, kjetil, trackbot
15:07:51 <josema> zakim, aabb is kevin
15:07:51 <Zakim> +kevin; got it
15:08:12 <josema> zakim, who's here?
15:08:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, kevin
15:08:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, josema, John, kjetil, trackbot
15:10:57 <josema> q?
15:15:06 <josema> [some talk about previous Group call and some frustration]
15:15:35 <josema> john: I believe we need to define very clearly a number of small tasks
15:15:40 <josema> ... in advance of the F2F
15:16:22 <josema> ... and build something from the week before until the week after
15:17:01 <josema> kevin: tried this with the use cases back around July
15:17:28 <josema> ... didn't seem to work despite a couple were uploaded
15:18:06 <josema> ... then some discussion about micromanaging people or not
15:18:13 <josema> ... some seem to prefer, some not
15:18:45 <josema> john: we might want to be a bit more prescriptive at least
15:18:51 <josema> ... for the days around the F2F
15:20:00 <josema> kevin: sometimes is difficult to do that on the phone
15:20:08 <josema> ... let's take advantage of the F2F
15:20:21 <josema> john: in any case, next Group call we should review the use cases
15:20:43 <josema> ... we have and let people refine them or add before F2F for one week
15:21:03 <josema> ... then discuss at the F2F, building it around the use cases
15:21:20 <josema> ... shaping them and come up with the real set we want to solve
15:21:35 <josema> ... see a week after if we are missing any important
15:22:05 <josema> kevin: if we could do that, I'd be satisfied
15:22:57 <josema> john: we could say that if you don't have a case you need to produce one
15:23:47 <josema> [use cases so far: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases]
15:25:36 <josema> jose: we tried use cases before, did not work
15:25:49 <josema> ... if we do it this time, should be much more specific tasks
15:25:58 <josema> ... agree with John's view here
15:26:25 <josema> john: it does not have very deep, but individuals should leave
15:26:31 <josema> ... with a clear idea on what to work
15:26:58 <josema> [http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Inventory]
15:28:14 <josema> jose: how to start the list?
15:28:23 <josema> kevin: let's do it by email
15:29:23 <OCR> OCR has joined #egov
15:30:25 <Zakim> + +34.98.439.aacc
15:30:38 <josema> zakim, aacc is oscar
15:30:38 <Zakim> +oscar; got it
15:30:58 <josema> jose: what about reviewing WebArch?
15:31:22 <josema> [http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/]
15:37:19 <josema> ... eg. persistence of URIs
15:37:35 <josema> zakim oscar is OCR
15:37:40 <josema> zakim, oscar is OCR
15:37:40 <Zakim> +OCR; got it
15:37:57 <josema> s/zakim oscar is OCR//
15:40:54 <josema> john: also a problem of accountability in several cases
15:41:15 <josema> ... besides the WebArch
15:41:20 <josema> ... I could write that one
15:41:25 <josema> jose: please, do
15:42:16 <josema> .. .talk about agenda for next Group call and F2F?
15:42:47 <josema> john: yes, next call let's focus on get specific tasks
15:43:07 <josema> ... list of areas for use cases by email
15:43:13 <josema> ... we should have it by Monday
15:43:28 <josema> kevin: it's likely I could not make it to the F2F
15:43:38 <josema> ... prefer to defer to you how to build the structure
15:44:39 <josema> john: would like to have two rounds at the F2F
15:44:46 <josema> .. first day list and review cases
15:44:52 <josema> ... second: go through them again
15:45:01 <josema> s/../...
15:45:40 <josema> ... taking what we have learned on day 1 and take it to the next phase
15:45:42 <josema> ... around themes
15:48:56 <josema> oscar: we might need to outline the document during the F2F
15:49:10 <josema> jose: editing at W3C is a science on its own ;)
15:49:23 <josema> john: if we can setup the main themes by the next call
15:49:31 <josema> ... that should give us the basic outline of the document
15:49:52 <josema> ... also structure of our F2F two days
15:50:41 <josema> ... we should not underestimate the amount of work to coordinate
15:50:49 <josema> ... the various contributions
15:50:54 <josema> ... but key is structure
15:53:06 <josema> jose: SEMIC.EU is sending a rep, discussed about presentation
15:53:25 <josema> john: could be interested, could bring a theme to our discussion
15:53:28 <josema> ... and maybe some use cases
15:53:54 <josema> ... if he wants to speak is fine
15:56:43 <josema> ... also IDABC summary
15:56:54 <josema> jose: I could do 5 minutes on that
15:57:46 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/TPAC2008
16:00:17 <josema> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/AC-Agenda AC Agenda
16:02:42 <josema> ACTION kevin to discuss themes by email by Monday
16:02:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Discuss themes by email by Monday [on Kevin Novak - due 2008-10-15].
16:02:52 <josema> ACTION john to discuss themes by email by Monday
16:02:52 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - john
16:02:52 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jwonderl, jsherida)
16:03:07 <josema> ACTION jsherida to discuss themes by email by Monday
16:03:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Discuss themes by email by Monday [on John Sheridan - due 2008-10-15].
16:03:27 <Zakim> -kevin
16:03:37 <Zakim> -Josema
16:03:39 <Zakim> -OCR
16:03:41 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()11:00AM has ended
16:03:45 <Zakim> Attendees were +0203334aaaa, Josema, john, +1.202.626.aabb, kevin, +34.98.439.aacc, OCR
16:03:56 <josema> [John to start discussion]
16:04:03 <josema> [ADJOURNED]
16:04:09 <josema> zakim, who's here?
16:04:09 <Zakim> apparently T&S_EGOV()11:00AM has ended, josema
16:04:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see OCR, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, John, kjetil, trackbot
16:04:16 <josema> zakim, who was here?
16:04:16 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, josema.
16:04:31 <josema> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:04:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/08-egov-minutes.html josema
16:04:55 <josema> RRSAgent, make minutes public
16:04:55 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', josema.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:05:05 <josema> RRSAgent, stop logging
16:05:05 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', josema.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:05:11 <josema> RRSAgent, stop