IRC log of svg on 2008-10-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:29:14 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-irc

10:29:16 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

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10:29:18 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG

10:29:18 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()6:30AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

10:29:19 [trackbot]

Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference

10:29:19 [trackbot]

Date: 07 October 2008

10:29:52 [Zakim]

GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has now started

10:29:58 [Zakim]

+??P3

10:30:05 [ed]

Zakim, ? is me

10:30:05 [Zakim]

+ed; got it

10:30:56 [Zakim]

+ +1.613.445.aaaa

10:31:43 [ed]

Zakim, +1 is lee

10:31:43 [Zakim]

+lee; got it

10:33:15 [lmartine]

lmartine has joined #svg

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lmartine has joined #svg

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10:39:42 [ChrisL]

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10:40:23 [Zakim]

+??P7

10:40:35 [ChrisL]

zakim, ??P7 is me

10:40:35 [Zakim]

+ChrisL; got it

10:40:55 [ChrisL]

zakim, who is here?

10:40:55 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ed, lee, ChrisL

10:40:56 [Zakim]

On IRC I see ChrisL, lmartine, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed, shepazu, anthony, ed_work, trackbot

10:41:51 [ChrisL]

zakim, call doug

10:41:52 [Zakim]

I am sorry, ChrisL; I do not know a number for doug

10:41:57 [ChrisL]

zakim, call schepers

10:41:57 [Zakim]

I am sorry, ChrisL; I do not know a number for schepers

10:42:04 [ChrisL]

zakim, call schepers-work

10:42:04 [Zakim]

I am sorry, ChrisL; I do not know a number for schepers-work

10:42:11 [ChrisL]

zakim, call doug-work

10:42:11 [Zakim]

ok, ChrisL; the call is being made

10:42:12 [Zakim]

+Doug

10:43:06 [ChrisL]

Scribe: Chris

10:43:09 [ed]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/11

10:43:15 [ChrisL]

Scribenick: ChrisL

10:43:20 [ChrisL]

Chair: Erik

10:43:33 [ChrisL]

Topic: Last Call Comments

10:45:00 [ChrisL]

ED: Some of these may be covered by other actions

10:45:09 [ChrisL]

ISSEU-2056?

10:45:15 [ChrisL]

ISSUE-2056?

10:45:15 [trackbot]

ISSUE-2056 -- Consider referring to Instead of linking to CSS2.1 instead of CSS2 -- RAISED

10:45:15 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2056

10:45:45 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Chris respond to commentor on ISSUE-2056 explaining projected Rec date of CSS 2.1

10:45:46 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2273 - Respond to commentor on ISSUE-2056 explaining projected Rec date of CSS 2.1 [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

10:46:00 [ChrisL]

Close ISSUE-2056

10:46:12 [ChrisL]

Trackbot, Close ISSUE-2056

10:46:12 [trackbot]

Sorry, ChrisL, I don't understand 'Trackbot, Close ISSUE-2056'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

10:47:24 [ChrisL]

CL: How is the DoC document being made?

10:47:50 [ChrisL]

DS: The issues will be imported into the LC tracker, but this tracker is better for actions etc

10:47:57 [ChrisL]

Topic: Issue 2055

10:48:03 [ChrisL]

Issue-2055?

10:48:03 [trackbot]

ISSUE-2055 -- Define 'evt'/'event' relationship more formally -- RAISED

10:48:03 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2055

10:48:21 [ChrisL]

ED: Some discussion from Cameron

10:49:22 [ChrisL]

ACTION Erik follow up with Cameron and commentor on ISSUE-2055

10:49:22 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2274 - Follow up with Cameron and commentor on ISSUE-2055 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-14].

10:50:01 [ChrisL]

Topic: Issue 2057

10:50:09 [ChrisL]

Issue-2057?

10:50:09 [trackbot]

ISSUE-2057 -- text-align incompatible with CSS -- OPEN

10:50:09 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2057

10:50:27 [ChrisL]

ED: There is an action pending review

10:52:16 [ChrisL]

CL: If a property has different v alue sets in different specifications (eg in CSS1 and CSS2) then clearly there are unsupported values

10:53:22 [ChrisL]

DS: UA can be conforming if it does these values, but content is not conforming vcontent if it has those values. But what the UA did would be unspecified

10:54:12 [ChrisL]

CL: aybe we could finesses 'unsupported' to allow for supersets in general

10:55:48 [ChrisL]

... but need to be careful to constrain superset values, not allow anything

10:57:08 [ChrisL]

ED: No official reply on list to last message

10:57:44 [ChrisL]

DS: So both Chris and I are saying such content would not conform to the specification

10:59:04 [ChrisL]

... spec was changed to say "not supported by the user agent" so puts it on UA not spec.

11:00:10 [ChrisL]

CL: So if it is supported then it does not have to be ignored

11:00:52 [ChrisL]

CL: I didn't suggest exact wording, but to ask first if that would satisfy

11:01:20 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Chris discuss ISSUE-2057 with Fantasai

11:01:20 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2275 - Discuss ISSUE-2057 with Fantasai [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

11:02:30 [ChrisL]

DS; Second part is solved by reintroduction of direction etc

11:02:43 [ChrisL]

DS: Third part was clarified by 'not in Tiny'

11:04:30 [ChrisL]

CL: So no response to dougs eail of 18 Sept?

11:04:57 [ChrisL]

DS: She contacted me on IRC. Asked that she follow up in email, for tracking. Not done so yet

11:05:13 [ChrisL]

... on IRC she was not satisfied

11:05:31 [ChrisL]

.. on the first issue. Others were not mentioned

11:05:41 [ChrisL]

CL; What did she say exactly?

11:05:48 [ChrisL]

DS: Will look in IRC logs

11:06:21 [ChrisL]

Topic; ISSUE-2058

11:06:28 [ChrisL]

ISSUE-2058?

11:06:28 [trackbot]

ISSUE-2058 -- Lack of BIDI 'direction' -- RAISED

11:06:28 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2058

11:07:05 [ChrisL]

ED; Fantasai says direction needs unicode-bidi as well, which we added

11:10:12 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Chris to respond to Fantasia on ISSUE-2058 saying we added direction, unicode-bidi and a test

11:10:12 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2276 - Respond to Fantasia on ISSUE-2058 saying we added direction, unicode-bidi and a test [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

11:11:08 [ed]

http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/text-align-202-t.svg

11:11:13 [ChrisL]

ED; Shoudl the other alignment test have unicode-bidi?

11:11:23 [ChrisL]

CL: Its not ipening an embedding context

11:12:52 [ChrisL]

CL; Should not have been added in that case, since its a block level and does not set a new embedding level

11:12:58 [ChrisL]

... why does opera fail here?

11:13:25 [ChrisL]

ED; Because we are not treating start as right, here. In 1.1 the text was wrong

11:13:33 [ChrisL]

CL: We fixed that in an erratum

11:13:46 [ChrisL]

ED: Not updated to impleent that erratum yet

11:14:33 [ChrisL]

CL; Should actually remove direction from text-align-202

11:17:25 [ChrisL]

ED: Check there is no leading witespace, then remove it

11:18:16 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Chris to remove direction from text-align-202 as it uses the initial value and does nothing n this test

11:18:16 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2277 - Remove direction from text-align-202 as it uses the initial value and does nothing n this test [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

11:18:41 [ChrisL]

Topic: Issue-2061

11:18:47 [ChrisL]

Issue-2061?

11:18:47 [trackbot]

ISSUE-2061 -- play, stop, pause, resume on video -- OPEN

11:18:47 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2061

11:20:02 [ChrisL]

CL: So he is asking for editorial clarifications and more linkingbetween the two interfaces

11:20:35 [ChrisL]

DS: Wants it to be clearer. no functional changes. Example would be good. Explain how to start, stop, pause, resue. Simple

11:20:40 [ChrisL]

ED: Informative note

11:22:57 [ChrisL]

DS: So we should say yes, we will link these two interfaces and explain them 2 outcomes: one we merge the interfaces, the other that we cross reference between them.

11:24:52 [ChrisL]

CL; Good to have pointed out that SVG does what SMIL does, while HTML5 does the same thing in a different way

11:25:42 [ChrisL]

DS: HTML% interface for this all in one place. It does some things we dont. We do some things they dont/ SMIL interface structure is confusing. PLH was confused and he is an experienced DOM author

11:26:36 [ChrisL]

ED: In SVG 1.1 you can pause and unpause on SVG root element and its named differently. PauseAnimations vs PauseElement

11:26:44 [ChrisL]

DS; Its a timeline

11:27:05 [ChrisL]

... need to add the explanation to the spec

11:29:29 [ChrisL]

CL; Explanation needs to use the term TimeContainer

11:30:11 [ChrisL]

CL: Would existing code change if it moved interfaces?

11:30:16 [ChrisL]

DS: probably

11:30:56 [ChrisL]

ED: EleentTimeControl is available on the SVG root element as well

11:31:09 [ChrisL]

s/Eleen/Elem/

11:31:59 [ChrisL]

DS; The interfaces can't be unified because what would play do on the svg root element. 'play' does not have meaning there

11:32:34 [ChrisL]

CL: Would play mean 'restart'?

11:32:56 [ChrisL]

DS; Not really

11:34:00 [ChrisL]

ED: beginElement is already there as well as pause

11:34:20 [ChrisL]

DS; So if we do the basic fix of linking between the interfaces

11:34:33 [ChrisL]

... then revisit in the larger picture

11:35:25 [ChrisL]

CL; Sugest an excampl and rtext saying 'to pause a video do this ... to start a video when a button is pressed do like this example"

11:37:43 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Doug to clarify the spec - link SVGTimedElement and SMIL::ElenentTimeControl and checkthat PLH is satisfied

11:37:43 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2278 - Clarify the spec - link SVGTimedElement and SMIL::ElenentTimeControl and checkthat PLH is satisfied [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-14].

11:37:56 [ChrisL]

s/Elen/Elem/

11:39:01 [ChrisL]

Topic: ISSUE-2062

11:39:08 [ChrisL]

ISSUE-2062?

11:39:08 [trackbot]

ISSUE-2062 -- foreignObject content and referenced resource -- RAISED

11:39:08 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2062

11:39:59 [ChrisL]

ED: xlink:href reference restrictions are not listed

11:41:38 [ChrisL]

CL: So any reference restrictions should be mentioned. Simplest to restrict to a different doc, not the same one.

11:42:30 [ChrisL]

CL: Fragments or not?

11:42:42 [ChrisL]

ED: Like linking to an ID?

11:43:02 [ChrisL]

DS; Maybe covered in CDF

11:45:11 [ChrisL]

CL: Useful to display the whole document and allow moving to a given point, so we dont want to dissalow fragments

11:45:19 [ChrisL]

ED: Agreed, allow fragments

11:45:37 [ed]

http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestrictions

11:47:39 [ChrisL]

CL: Looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestrictions

11:47:50 [ChrisL]

it has five things labelled A... E

11:48:09 [ChrisL]

A is not allowed. B is allowed. C we justsaid was not allowed

11:48:47 [ChrisL]

... C is covered by th e animation element

11:49:13 [ChrisL]

D is allowed

11:49:25 [ChrisL]

E is allowed too

11:51:04 [ChrisL]

foreignObject is in that table and says yes everywhere

11:51:43 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Chris to update table of ref restrictions in linking.thml to make foreignObject do what these minutes say

11:51:43 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2279 - Update table of ref restrictions in linking.thml to make foreignObject do what these minutes say [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

11:51:50 [shepazu]

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11:52:41 [ChrisL]

he says we don't mention displaying the contents

11:53:16 [ChrisL]

We say "The rendered content of a foreignObject must be treated as atomic from the point of view of SVG compositing and transformation, as if it was a single replaced element."

11:53:35 [ChrisL]

we dont say it should be rendered but we say what to do with the rendered result

11:54:42 [ChrisL]

Suggest "If the foreign format is supported by the UA and can be rendered, then it shoudl be rendered into the viewport defined by the element" before the sentence just quoted

11:56:07 [ChrisL]

CL; Suggest moving the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1

11:56:19 [ChrisL]

ED: Yes

11:56:47 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Chris to move the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1 (the ones that discuss foreignObject)

11:56:47 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2280 - Move the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1 (the ones that discuss foreignObject) [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

11:57:21 [ChrisL]

ED: Need to continue on this issue next time

11:57:41 [ChrisL]

DS; ooks like we need an extra or longe rtelcon

11:59:05 [ChrisL]

... we need resolutions and agreement quickly

12:05:03 [ChrisL]

(brief discussion of ISSUE-2076)

12:05:44 [ChrisL]

DS: Extra-long telcon toorrow?

12:05:46 [ChrisL]

ED: Or shared time on IRC

12:06:01 [ChrisL]

DS: More time, and also email discussion

12:07:42 [ChrisL]

DS: Extra telcons better next week

12:09:29 [ChrisL]

DS will send email to the list asking about extra telcons

12:18:11 [ChrisL]

ACTION: Doug to explain that aria- or aria: would be in later specs with real examples, based on tpac discussions

12:18:11 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2281 - Explain that aria- or aria: would be in later specs with real examples, based on tpac discussions [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-14].

12:21:02 [Zakim]

-ed

12:21:04 [Zakim]

-ChrisL

12:21:06 [Zakim]

-lee

12:21:09 [ChrisL]

zakim, list attendees

12:21:09 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been ed, +1.613.445.aaaa, lee, ChrisL, Doug

12:21:12 [Zakim]

-Doug

12:21:13 [Zakim]

GA_SVGWG()6:30AM has ended

12:21:14 [Zakim]

Attendees were ed, +1.613.445.aaaa, lee, ChrisL, Doug

12:21:26 [ChrisL]

Regrets: Cameron, Andrew Emmons, Anthony

12:21:34 [ChrisL]

rrsagent, make longs public

12:21:34 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make longs public', ChrisL. Try /msg RRSAgent help

12:21:50 [ChrisL]

rrsagent, make minutes

12:21:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html ChrisL

13:17:09 [shepazu]

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13:35:34 [ed_work]

shepazu: did you add julien reichel's traitaccess comment to the tracker or should I do it?

13:36:01 [shepazu]

ed_work: I'm adding a bunch now, his is one of them

13:36:13 [ed_work]

...and did you check your account balance to see if Brookstreet charged you for my room?

13:37:06 [ed_work]

it wasn't on either of my creditcards, but I didn't check it carefully enough that morning

13:39:51 [shepazu]

ed_work: I'll look... what can we do about it if they did make the mistake?

13:40:15 [shepazu]

should we get them to change the charge, or settle it between us?

13:57:33 [shepazu]

ed_work: I added julien's comment

13:57:44 [ed_work]

i don't know which is easier, what do you think?

13:58:25 [shepazu]

ed_work: I am not seeing the charge from brookstreet, but I'm also not seeing it from the bill I paid either, so they may not have processed it yet

14:02:06 [ChrisL]

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14:59:19 [ddepasqu]

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14:59:30 [ed_work]

trackbot, close ACTION-2257

14:59:31 [trackbot]

ACTION-2257 Make an imagepatch for text-tselect-03-t to show the selection closed

15:22:31 [ed_work]

hmm...for ACTION-2213 I wonder one thing...how do I make the attribute appendix show 'type' being animatable in some cases only?

15:28:34 [ed_work]

ah, ok...maybe by changing the relaxng

15:29:12 [ed_work]

in that case I'd like to split it into two...

15:33:09 [ed_work]

ok, let's see how this goes...I might revert this if it fails

15:36:22 [ed]

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15:40:05 [ed_work]

cool, that actually worked :)

15:43:48 [ed_work]

trackbot, close ACTION-2213

15:43:48 [trackbot]

ACTION-2213 Make the type attribute animatable for types closed

15:44:57 [ed_work]

shepazu: ACTION-2213 was related to some LC comment that you said you'd respond to after I completed the action

15:46:33 [ed_work]

trackbot, close ACTION-2250

15:46:33 [trackbot]

ACTION-2250 Clarify the focusable="auto" with eventListener and handlers closed

16:06:15 [shepazu]

ed_work: ok, I'll respond now