IRC log of swd on 2008-09-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:11 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc

14:55:18 [Ralph]

Meeting: SemWeb Deployment WG

14:55:22 [Zakim]

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14:55:27 [Ralph]

zakim, this will be swd

14:55:27 [Zakim]

ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

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14:55:35 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please make record public

14:55:50 [Ralph]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0049.html

14:55:55 [Ralph]

Chair: Guus

14:57:12 [TomB]

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14:57:18 [Ralph]

Regrets: Simone, Elisa, Daniel

14:57:26 [Ralph]

Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html

14:58:22 [Zakim]

SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started

14:58:29 [Zakim]

+??P18

14:58:35 [seanb]

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14:58:40 [TomB]

zakim, ??P18 is TomB

14:58:41 [Zakim]

+TomB; got it

14:58:51 [Zakim]

+ +1.617.252.aaaa

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14:59:17 [Ralph]

zakim, aaaa is Ralph

14:59:17 [Zakim]

+Ralph; got it

14:59:44 [Zakim]

+VeroniqueM

14:59:50 [JonP]

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15:00:48 [Ralph]

zakim, veroniqueM is Guus

15:00:48 [Zakim]

+[CTIC]

15:00:50 [Zakim]

+Guus; got it

15:01:00 [Zakim]

+Jon_Phipps

15:01:00 [Ralph]

zakim, ctic is Diego

15:01:01 [berrueta]

zakim, [CTIC

15:01:03 [Zakim]

+Diego; got it

15:01:05 [Zakim]

I don't understand '[CTIC', berrueta

15:01:12 [Zakim]

+[LC]

15:01:13 [edsu]

zakim, LC is edsu

15:01:21 [Zakim]

+edsu; got it

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15:01:33 [JonP]

zakim, Jon_Phipps is me

15:01:33 [Zakim]

+JonP; got it

15:01:33 [Guus]

zakim, who is here?

15:01:35 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, Guus, Diego, JonP, edsu

15:01:42 [Zakim]

On IRC I see aliman, Guus, marghe, JonP, edsu, seanb, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ralph

15:02:04 [Zakim]

+??P20

15:02:19 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p20 is Margherita

15:02:19 [Zakim]

+Margherita; got it

15:02:44 [Zakim]

+??P36

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15:03:00 [Zakim]

+??P38

15:03:02 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p36 is Daniel

15:03:02 [Zakim]

+Daniel; got it

15:03:05 [Zakim]

+??P34

15:03:06 [Ralph]

regrets- Daniel

15:03:08 [seanb]

zakim, ??P38 is me

15:03:08 [Zakim]

+seanb; got it

15:03:22 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p34 is Alistair

15:03:22 [Zakim]

+Alistair; got it

15:03:33 [Guus]

zakim, who is here?

15:03:33 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, Guus, Diego, JonP, edsu, Margherita, Daniel, seanb, Alistair

15:03:35 [Zakim]

On IRC I see dlrubin, aliman, Guus, marghe, JonP, edsu, seanb, TomB, berrueta, Zakim, RRSAgent, Ralph

15:03:45 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ralph

15:03:54 [Ralph]

scribe: Ralph

15:04:07 [edsu]

Zakim++

15:04:45 [Ralph]

Topic: Admin

15:04:52 [Ralph]

zakim, list participants

15:04:52 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been TomB, +1.617.252.aaaa, Ralph, Guus, Diego, edsu, JonP, Margherita, Daniel, seanb, Alistair

15:05:16 [Ralph]

Guus: schedule for future telecons?

15:05:24 [Ralph]

Tom: haven't created a proposal yet

15:05:40 [TomB]

+1 for 7 October next call

15:05:47 [Antoine]

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15:05:55 [Ralph]

RESOLVED: next telecon 7 October

15:06:05 [Ralph]

... Tom to chair

15:06:32 [Ralph]

Jon: I'm at risk for 7 Oct

15:06:40 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose seanb

15:07:04 [Zakim]

+??P5

15:07:08 [aliman]

/me would be happy to take it in turns with someone

15:07:18 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p5 is Antoine

15:07:18 [Zakim]

+Antoine; got it

15:07:45 [Ralph]

Ed: I will scribe on 7 Oct

15:08:04 [Ralph]

Antone: regrets for 7 Oct

15:08:14 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

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15:08:32 [Ralph]

PROPOSED: accept http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html as minutes of previous meeting

15:08:39 [Ralph]

Sean: I'd indicated my regrets

15:09:24 [Ralph]

RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html as minutes of previous meeting, amended to show Sean's regrets

15:09:33 [Ralph]

s/as min/accepted as min

15:09:49 [Ralph]

Topic: RDFa

15:10:21 [Ralph]

Ben: no specific update; we have to schedule the last step

15:10:30 [Ralph]

... only minor comments received during PR; some typos

15:10:38 [Ralph]

... I need to tweak the Primer

15:10:55 [Ralph]

... we've had positive comments on the Primer but some recent comments say there's not enough in it

15:11:08 [Ralph]

... we want to have an updated version to publish with the REC

15:12:51 [Ralph]

Ralph: It's important that WG members get their AC reps to respond to the Call for Reviwe

15:14:10 [Ralph]

ACTION: All to remind respective AC Reps to respond to RDFa Proposed Rec Call for Review

15:15:25 [Ralph]

Guus: schedule also says we'll publish RDFa Use Cases as WG Note

15:15:34 [Ralph]

Ben: yep, we should see if it needs any updates

15:15:51 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note

15:16:02 [Ralph]

Topic: Recipes

15:16:07 [Ralph]

Guus: I think we're done here

15:16:25 [Ralph]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]

15:16:35 [Ralph]

Topic: RDFa Metadata Note

15:16:47 [Ralph]

Guus: was this discussed at the previous telecon?

15:16:53 [Ralph]

Diego: there's a new version in the Wiki

15:17:06 [Ralph]

... but I haven't yet discussed this draft with Ed

15:17:24 [Ralph]

... hope to discuss with Ed in the next few days and then have a version for the WG

15:17:56 [Ralph]

ACTION: Diego updates "Minimum RDFa metadata set for WG deliverables" draft in the wiki

15:18:27 [Ralph]

Ed: I read the previous draft and found a few minor things, would like to talk about this in a telecon; in particular, talk about the various vocabularies to use

15:18:54 [Ralph]

Diego: I propose that Ed and I talk about it during the week and we put it on the agenda for 7 October

15:19:35 [Ralph]

Topic: CURIE

15:19:53 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Jeremy to send a review to XHTML2 with comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/16-swd-minutes.html#action06]

15:20:10 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0042.html "CURIE review from SWD WG" [Jeremy 2008-09-22]

15:20:26 [Ralph]

Topic: Vocabulary Management

15:20:31 [Ralph]

Guus: no status change

15:20:33 [Ralph]

Topic: SKOS

15:20:55 [Ralph]

Alistair: [reviews comments received]

15:21:30 [Ralph]

... comment about disjointness of ConceptScheme and Concept

15:21:52 [Ralph]

... hasTopConcept v. hasTopConceptOf

15:22:02 [Ralph]

... mappings

15:22:23 [aliman]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0014.html

15:22:36 [aliman]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0015.html

15:22:39 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/129 Last Call Comment: S9 skos:ConceptScheme is disjoint with skos:Concept

15:22:55 [aliman]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0026.html

15:22:59 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/130 Last Call Comment: skos:hasTopConcept and skos:topConceptOf

15:23:01 [aliman]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/LastCall#preview

15:23:18 [Ralph]

Alistair: I've linked all these messages from LastCall#preview

15:23:30 [aliman]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0037.html

15:23:37 [Ralph]

... Quentin spotted an error in an example

15:23:48 [aliman]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0044.html

15:24:03 [JeremyCarroll]

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15:24:07 [aliman]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0055.html

15:24:09 [Ralph]

... several comments from Michael Schneider, I broke out into separate issues

15:24:33 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/raised SKOS Issues Raised

15:24:42 [aliman]

5 external last call comments

15:24:46 [Ralph]

Sean: I expect a comment from Peter Patel-Schneider about some of the OWL

15:25:07 [Ralph]

Alistair++ for entering these into tracker

15:25:18 [Ralph]

Antoine: I found another, from 28 June

15:25:24 [Ralph]

... from Eric Enum

15:25:27 [Ralph]

... of IBM

15:25:45 [Ralph]

Alistair: I was wondering whether this should be entered as if it were a Last Call comment

15:26:05 [Ralph]

Ralph, Guus: yes, we should include Eric's message among Last Call comments

15:26:12 [Ralph]

Alistair: I'll generate issues for it

15:26:35 [Ralph]

Guus: I don't see many comments from the thesaurus or representation fields

15:27:17 [Ralph]

... should we extend Last Call to get more comments?

15:27:29 [Ralph]

Ralph: is the esw-thes list sufficiently represented? Could we get more expressions of support?

15:27:40 [Ralph]

Alistair: we could definitely get more expressions of support

15:27:45 [Ralph]

Ralph: that would be helpful

15:27:54 [Zakim]

+ +1.650.215.aabb

15:27:54 [Ralph]

Guus: do we have input on our features at risk?

15:28:03 [Ralph]

Alistair: yes, in particular from Kjetl

15:28:07 [Ralph]

zakim, aabb is Jeremy

15:28:07 [Zakim]

+Jeremy; got it

15:28:40 [Ralph]

ACTION: Alistair enter Last Call issues from Eric Enum's 28 June mail

15:29:09 [Ralph]

Sean: we've had no comments about the namespace

15:29:29 [Ralph]

s/Eric Enum/Erik Hennum/G

15:29:50 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jun/0103.html "SKOS comment" [Erik Hennum 2008-06-27]

15:30:15 [Ralph]

Margherita: I have not yet had time to update [my work] with the latest SKOS

15:30:30 [Ralph]

... I might ask folk in Sicily; they have a glossary and other resources

15:30:51 [Ralph]

s/Sicily/the Fisheries Department

15:31:15 [Ralph]

Guus: I'll ask some folk here to comment

15:31:52 [Ralph]

Ed: Clay and I are the primary Library of Congress folk working with SKOS right now

15:32:17 [Ralph]

... I might be able to get a general note of support but unlikely to get specific comments on the namespace

15:32:52 [Ralph]

Ralph: it would be good to get a consensus from esw-thes on the namespace question

15:33:08 [Ralph]

Alistair: I can ask that list explicitly; I've just sent a reminder

15:33:44 [TomB]

q+ to suggest to Ed that a note of support and interest from someone at LC, even just a one-liner, would be helpful

15:33:49 [Ralph]

Guus: I am worried that we don't have enough input on the features at risk

15:34:07 [Ralph]

Ralph: right, folks who like what we've proposed may feel they don't need to comment but the opposite is true

15:34:28 [Ralph]

Jon: Ed and I have presented SKOS at CAUSE conferences, including noting the features at risk

15:34:36 [Ralph]

... there have been no objections

15:34:45 [Ralph]

Guus: it would be helpful to send a mail with that

15:34:50 [Zakim]

TomB, you wanted to suggest to Ed that a note of support and interest from someone at LC, even just a one-liner, would be helpful

15:35:21 [Ralph]

Ed: ok, but not from me or Clay, right?

15:35:27 [Ralph]

Tom: right; better from Barbara

15:35:53 [Ralph]

Ed: dbpedia uses SKOS quite heavily in their datastore; has anyone approached them?

15:36:31 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ed ask dbpedia to send a message in support of SKOS

15:36:55 [Ralph]

Ed: I could also contact the Department of Agriculture Library

15:37:32 [Ralph]

Guus: should we formally extend Last Call or just accept comments until 14 October?

15:37:36 [Ralph]

Ralph: I'm happy either way

15:37:44 [Ralph]

Guus: most WGs accept comments even if they arrive late

15:37:54 [JeremyCarroll]

(There is no option to reject late comments .... but one can take the lateness into account)

15:38:33 [Ralph]

Guus: Alistair; what, in your opinion, are the major comments

15:38:59 [Ralph]

Alistair: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/129 issue 129 ConceptScheme and Concept

15:39:26 [Ralph]

Sean: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/135 issue 135; should the label properties be subClassOf rdfs:Label

15:40:18 [Ralph]

... Michael Schneider suggests that the label properties *not* be sub properties of rdfs:label

15:40:27 [Ralph]

... I recall a related comment from Bernard Vatant

15:40:42 [Ralph]

... some tools want the subPropertyOf so they can pull the labels out easily

15:40:51 [JeremyCarroll]

(as a tool builder I am keen for all label props to be subPropertyOf rdfs:Label)

15:41:08 [Ralph]

Guus: [my group] depends on subPropertyOf a lot; we don't have to adapt our software that looks for rdfs:label

15:41:54 [Ralph]

Alistair: there might be a different way to do this in OWL2 than what we currently use

15:43:08 [Ralph]

... Alan Ruttenburg sent mail recently that might be relevant

15:44:04 [aliman]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2008Sep/0024.html Alan Ruttenberg links to OWL 2 annotations proposal

15:45:10 [aliman]

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax#Annotations OWL 2 Syntax -- Annotations

15:50:08 [JeremyCarroll]

q+

15:51:37 [JeremyCarroll]

ack

15:52:17 [JeremyCarroll]

q-

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15:53:56 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: SKOS Reference editors to send mail asking for feedback from users [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-minutes.html#action06]

15:54:15 [Ralph]

[DONE] ACTION: Sean to add a request for implementations to the mail asking for feedback [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-minutes.html#action07]

15:54:35 [Ralph]

ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01]

15:54:37 [Ralph]

-- continues

15:54:41 [aliman]

sorry for no progress on that

15:56:05 [Ralph]

Guus: it would be nice to show implementations

15:56:29 [Ralph]

... every vocabulary owner who uses SKOS to produce a compliant thesaurus should be considered an implementation

15:56:43 [Ralph]

... we should find some example thesaurii that use features from our spec

15:56:59 [Ralph]

... finding one or two such vocabularies for each feature would make a nice implementation report

15:57:45 [Ralph]

... showing some vocabularies that use the label features would be good

15:58:00 [Ralph]

Jon: what's the timeframe for implementation responses?

15:58:13 [Ralph]

Guus: during Candidate Rec phase, which is typically 4-6 weeks

15:58:42 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

15:59:12 [TomB]

Ralph: We can propose what our own Candidate Rec exit criteria are. Traditionally, two independent implementations. Traditionally, candidate rec lasts as long as it takes to get implementations.

16:00:04 [Ralph]

Jeremy: recently most groups have been very close to meeting their CR exit criteria before they enter CR

16:00:34 [TomB]

JonP: We have 100+ vocabularies in the registries. Have been avoiding switching over these vocabularies to new namespace because may be messy.

16:00:41 [Ralph]

Jon: I may be able to submit some examples but it will take a while

16:00:53 [Ralph]

Alistair: do the implementations have to be publicly available

16:01:14 [Ralph]

s/able/able?/

16:01:33 [aliman]

s/Alistair/Antoine/

16:01:40 [Ralph]

Ralph: we can accept an email message from an implementor describing their experiences, without making the code public

16:01:54 [Ralph]

Jeremy: that mail can even go to a Member- or Team-confidential list :)

16:02:11 [Ralph]

[adjourned]

16:02:14 [Zakim]

-Daniel

16:02:16 [Zakim]

-Jeremy

16:02:17 [Zakim]

-Diego

16:02:18 [Zakim]

-Guus

16:02:19 [seanb]

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16:02:21 [Zakim]

-Margherita

16:02:22 [Zakim]

-Alistair

16:02:25 [Zakim]

-JonP

16:02:27 [Zakim]

-Antoine

16:02:28 [Zakim]

-TomB

16:02:36 [Zakim]

-Ralph

16:02:38 [berrueta]

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16:02:38 [Zakim]

-edsu

16:02:40 [Zakim]

-seanb

16:02:42 [Zakim]

SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended

16:02:44 [Zakim]

Attendees were TomB, +1.617.252.aaaa, Ralph, Guus, Diego, edsu, JonP, Margherita, Daniel, seanb, Alistair, Antoine, Ben_Adida, +1.650.215.aabb, Jeremy

16:02:47 [Ralph]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

16:02:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-minutes.html Ralph

16:02:52 [Zakim]

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16:02:56 [edsu]

edsu has left #swd

16:04:01 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-actions.rdf :

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: All to remind respective AC Reps to respond to RDFa Proposed Rec Call for Review [1]

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-14-10

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben review RDFa Use Cases and propose transition to Group Note [2]

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-15-51

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Diego updates "Minimum RDFa metadata set for WG deliverables" draft in the wiki [3]

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-17-56

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Alistair enter Last Call issues from Eric Enum's 28 June mail [4]

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-28-40

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ed ask dbpedia to send a message in support of SKOS [5]

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-36-31

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01] [6]

16:04:01 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/30-swd-irc#T15-54-35