IRC log of bpwg on 2008-09-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:01:57 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:01:57 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc
13:01:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:01:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:02:01 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:02:01 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 58 minutes
13:02:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:02:02 [trackbot]
Date: 04 September 2008
13:02:14 [dom]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Sep/0000.html
13:02:58 [dom]
Regrets: Francois, Rob, Abel, Heiko, Ignacio, Yeliz
13:03:00 [dom]
Chair: DKA
13:50:02 [jeffs]
jeffs has joined #bpwg
13:53:27 [dom]
Regrets+ Ed
13:53:30 [dom]
Regrets+ Scott
13:57:20 [DKA]
DKA has joined #bpwg
14:01:14 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
14:01:21 [Zakim]
+??P26
14:01:25 [Zakim]
+??P27
14:01:41 [jeffs]
zakim, ??P26 is jeffs
14:01:43 [Zakim]
+jeffs; got it
14:01:54 [Bryan]
Bryan has joined #bpwg
14:02:11 [dom]
zakim, code?
14:02:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom
14:02:29 [jsmanrique]
jsmanrique has joined #bpwg
14:02:46 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Sullivan
14:02:55 [dstorey]
dstorey has joined #bpwg
14:03:04 [Zakim]
+DKA
14:03:11 [Pontus]
Pontus has joined #bpwg
14:03:12 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
14:03:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P27, jeffs, Bryan_Sullivan, DKA
14:03:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Pontus, dstorey, jsmanrique, Bryan, DKA, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, trackbot, dom
14:03:46 [DKA]
I was also having trouble with Zakim today.
14:03:51 [DKA]
Managed after 3rd attempt.
14:03:52 [achuter]
achuter has joined #bpwg
14:04:16 [Zakim]
+Pontus
14:04:26 [Zakim]
+dom
14:04:47 [dom]
zakim, who's on the call?
14:04:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P27, jeffs, Bryan_Sullivan, DKA, Pontus, dom
14:05:33 [dom]
zakim, ??P27 is DaveRooks
14:05:35 [Zakim]
+DaveRooks; got it
14:05:39 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
14:05:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DaveRooks, jeffs, Bryan_Sullivan, DKA, Pontus, dom
14:05:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see achuter, Pontus, dstorey, jsmanrique, Bryan, DKA, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, trackbot, dom
14:05:52 [Zakim]
+nacho
14:05:59 [jo]
jo has joined #bpwg
14:06:09 [jo]
zakim, code?
14:06:09 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
14:06:12 [jsmanrique]
Zakim: nacho is me
14:06:23 [jsmanrique]
Zakim, nacho is me
14:06:24 [Zakim]
+jsmanrique; got it
14:06:36 [jsmanrique]
Zakim, miguel is with me
14:06:36 [Zakim]
+miguel; got it
14:06:46 [Zakim]
+??P49
14:07:04 [Zakim]
+jo
14:07:05 [achuter]
zakim, ??P49 is me
14:07:05 [Zakim]
+achuter; got it
14:07:05 [dom]
zakim, ??P49 is achuter
14:07:05 [Zakim]
I already had ??P49 as achuter, dom
14:07:14 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
14:07:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DaveRooks, jeffs, Bryan_Sullivan, DKA, Pontus, dom, jsmanrique, achuter, jo
14:07:17 [Zakim]
jsmanrique has jsmanrique, miguel
14:07:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jo, achuter, Pontus, dstorey, jsmanrique, Bryan, DKA, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, trackbot, dom
14:07:47 [jeffs]
zakim, mute me
14:07:47 [Zakim]
jeffs should now be muted
14:08:04 [DKA]
zakim, who's making noise?
14:08:15 [Zakim]
DKA, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bryan_Sullivan (19%), DaveRooks (23%), dom (14%)
14:08:21 [DKA]
zakim, mute daverooks
14:08:23 [Zakim]
DaveRooks should now be muted
14:08:30 [DKA]
zakim, mute bryan_sullivan
14:08:30 [Zakim]
Bryan_Sullivan should now be muted
14:08:37 [DKA]
zakim, mute dom
14:08:37 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
14:08:44 [DKA]
zakim, who's here
14:08:44 [Zakim]
DKA, you need to end that query with '?'
14:08:46 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
14:08:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DaveRooks (muted), jeffs (muted), Bryan_Sullivan (muted), DKA, Pontus, dom (muted), jsmanrique, achuter (muted), jo
14:08:49 [Zakim]
jsmanrique has jsmanrique, miguel
14:08:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jo, achuter, Pontus, dstorey, jsmanrique, Bryan, DKA, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, trackbot, dom
14:09:05 [jo]
scribe: jo
14:09:50 [dstorey]
I'm 3/4s reading...trying to get wikipedia to fix a broken handheld stylesheet
14:10:19 [dom]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Sep/0000.html
14:11:27 [jo]
Topic: Status of SIgn Up to New Group
14:11:27 [DKA]
ack dom
14:11:37 [jo]
zakim, mute me
14:11:37 [Zakim]
jo should now be muted
14:12:13 [dom]
http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/37584/discrepancies
14:12:14 [jo]
dom: Reminders went out over the weekend, if you have not been nominated by 13 Spet you will be kicked out of the working group
14:12:41 [jo]
... so those in the link above need to ping their ac reps
14:12:48 [Zakim]
-achuter
14:12:56 [jo]
dka: how many outstanding?
14:13:38 [jo]
dom: before re-chartering we had 33 member orgs, but now we only have 11, so we have 22 missing
14:13:45 [jo]
dka: ugh
14:13:47 [Zakim]
+Kai_Dietrich
14:14:38 [jo]
dom: in a certain number of cases this is for people that have not been active - anyway I expect this will sort itself out
14:15:04 [jo]
dka: make sure you don't miss out on member benefits!
14:15:26 [Zakim]
+??P0
14:15:40 [jeffs]
suggestion for F2F: Mobile Web for Social Development Interest Group is nowup and running (I am member), & F2F happening at TPAC... do we want to see if there are mutually supportive things can be done??
14:15:41 [achuter]
zakim, ??P40 is me
14:15:41 [Zakim]
I already had ??P40 as ??P40, achuter
14:15:42 [jo]
Topic: F2F Agenda for Mandelieu
14:15:47 [jeffs]
suggestion for F2F: Mobile Web for Social Development Interest Group is nowup and running (I am member), & F2F happening at TPAC... do we want to see if there are mutually supportive things can be done??
14:16:12 [jo]
dka: I sent a link to a "list of goals" in the agenda
14:16:36 [jo]
... I would just like to run through those goals and see what people think and have other to contribute
14:17:09 [jo]
... jo and I thought that we wanted to have a substantial discussion on CT and move to second last call
14:17:39 [jo]
... ref accessibility we want to have everything done and dusted, and possibly a joint session with EOWG
14:17:56 [jo]
... ref BP2 we want to have discussion leading to a last call
14:18:20 [jo]
... that is a bit tentative but we do need to move along and I want to make this the focus of the meeting
14:18:33 [jo]
... for BP 1.5 we need to move this to a draft
14:19:05 [jo]
... we want to hear from the the Korean Task force and understand the Gap Analysis document that they are working on, but not sure what Korean plans are for attending
14:19:20 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2008/registrants#mwbp MWBP registrants at TPAC
14:19:28 [jo]
... we should have a POWDER presentation from Phil
14:19:33 [dom]
[Jonathan Jeon and Kangchan Lee will be there]
14:19:35 [jeffs]
suggestion for F2F: Mobile Web for Social Development Interest Group is nowup and running (I am member), & F2F happening at TPAC... do we want to see if there are mutually supportive things can be done??
14:20:32 [jo]
... and a joint session with EO, as discussed, and with the Webapps people on Widgets - we need to establish that a mobile widget needs to be conformant with BP (2.0)
14:20:53 [jo]
... so we need an agreement on how we can reference their work and/or vice-versa
14:21:07 [jeffs]
suggestion for F2F: Mobile Web for Social Development Interest Group is now up and running (I am member), & F2F happening at TPAC... do we want to see if there are mutually supportive things can be done??
14:21:07 [jo]
... and the otehr thing is having a BP Dinner on Monday night
14:21:36 [jo]
dom: may be we need a session with the TAG ref ISSUE-222
14:21:41 [Kai]
Kai has joined #bpwg
14:22:01 [Kai]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:22:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DaveRooks (muted), jeffs (muted), Bryan_Sullivan (muted), DKA, Pontus, dom, jsmanrique, jo (muted), Kai_Dietrich, ??P0
14:22:03 [Zakim]
jsmanrique has jsmanrique, miguel
14:22:08 [jo]
... could spend time on MobileOK Scheme, but a lesser goal than the others
14:22:11 [jeffs]
suggestion for F2F: Mobile Web for Social Development Interest Group is now up and running (I am member), & F2F happening at TPAC... do we want to see if there are mutually supportive things can be done??
14:22:27 [jeffs]
Stephane Boyera stephane@w3.org is MW4D contact
14:22:30 [Kai]
zakim, Kai_Dietrich is me
14:22:30 [Zakim]
+Kai; got it
14:22:57 [jo]
dka: right jeffs, maybe we could have a presentation from Stephane?
14:22:59 [jeffs]
would you like to contact steph? or me?
14:23:28 [jo]
dom: yes makes sense to see if their is useful input, and I will ask him
14:23:37 [jo]
s/their/there/
14:23:43 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to contact Stéphane to see if he is interested in presenting MW4D to BPWG at TPAC
14:23:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-835 - Contact Stéphane to see if he is interested in presenting MW4D to BPWG at TPAC [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2008-09-11].
14:23:44 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
14:23:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DaveRooks (muted), jeffs (muted), Bryan_Sullivan (muted), DKA, Pontus, dom, jsmanrique, jo (muted), Kai, ??P0
14:23:46 [Zakim]
jsmanrique has jsmanrique, miguel
14:23:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Kai, jo, achuter, Pontus, dstorey, jsmanrique, Bryan, DKA, jeffs, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, trackbot, dom
14:23:53 [jo]
jo: nothing further to add
14:24:28 [jo]
dka: so we'll come back with a concrete agenda, and Dom, any suggestions for a venue for Monday night?
14:25:12 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to look into a restaurant for Monday night at TPAC - due 2008-10-01
14:25:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-836 - look into a restaurant for Monday night at TPAC [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2008-10-01].
14:25:13 [jo]
... but contrary to Jo's wishes we might have to go back tot he pizza place at Mandelieu and it is where we first made the Wikipedia entry onMobile Web (from a mobile phone)
14:25:29 [jo]
Topic: CT Task FOrce
14:25:31 [jo]
ack me
14:26:03 [SeanP]
SeanP has joined #bpwg
14:26:55 [jo]
jo: had meeting this week and are starting to address lc comments
14:27:07 [jo]
Topic: Checker Task FOrce
14:27:25 [jo]
miguel: No specific news from us
14:27:42 [jo]
Topic: BP 1.5
14:27:50 [jo]
dka: how does it feel for you Kai?
14:28:02 [jo]
kai: we are waiting for feedback from the group
14:28:03 [Zakim]
+SeanP
14:28:10 [jo]
... as I mentioned last time
14:28:35 [jo]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:28:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-minutes.html jo
14:28:51 [Kai]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/mobileOKPro/drafts/ED-mobileOK-pro10-tests-20080731
14:29:05 [jo]
dka: shall we discuss this a bit more than we did last time, like what changes have gone in since last f2f
14:29:19 [dom]
q+
14:29:23 [dom]
ack me
14:29:26 [jo]
kai: no that would be futile, people just need to read it,
14:29:59 [jo]
dom: I did look at the format and it looks OK, might need minor tweaks to make pubrules compliant
14:30:18 [jo]
... the real work is in turning it into the addendum rather than mobileOK pro as it is today
14:30:32 [jo]
dks: so what si that work then
14:30:37 [jo]
s/si/is/
14:30:46 [jo]
s/dks/dka/
14:31:12 [Kai]
How about mobileOK Basic Tests Addendum?
14:31:24 [jo]
... right now it looks more like an addendum to the Basic Tests and I am struggling with what we'd need to do to turn it into the addendum we need
14:31:47 [Kai]
q+
14:31:55 [jo]
... don't we need an awful lot more text and explanatory verbiage (sic)
14:32:02 [DKA]
ack jai
14:32:18 [jo]
kai: I think it is an addendum to the test doc
14:32:32 [jo]
... we even ahve a preface saying that these are the human testable bits
14:32:33 [dom]
"Testing Mobile Web Best Practices"?
14:33:03 [jo]
... we could do these tests as an addendum, and we could add "why will you want to do this"
14:33:09 [jeffs]
agree, from "Abstract": "This document outlines a set of tests requiring human evaluation"
14:33:20 [jo]
... that is the only thing that is really needed to make that happen
14:33:30 [jo]
q+
14:33:35 [DKA]
ack jo
14:33:37 [dom]
ack kai
14:33:38 [Kai]
ack me
14:34:25 [jeffs]
seems to me useful to make addendum to tests as it is the part that requires human intervention
14:34:53 [dom]
q+ to say we need someone to lead the work
14:35:02 [jo]
zakim, mute me
14:35:02 [Zakim]
jo should now be muted
14:35:43 [jo]
jo: well we did say that it would be re-purposed as an addendum to BP 1 but it would probably be just as useful if we said its an addendum to mobileOK and less work
14:35:58 [dom]
q?
14:36:01 [jo]
dka: well, yes, that's what I am saying
14:36:04 [dom]
ack me
14:36:05 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to say we need someone to lead the work
14:36:12 [Kai]
how about "mobileOK Basic Tests - with human interaction"
14:36:18 [jeffs]
+1
14:36:36 [jo]
dom: I think that as a title we should have testing mobile web best practices
14:36:42 [jeffs]
s/interaction/intervention
14:36:51 [Zakim]
-??P0
14:36:59 [jo]
... the scope is very different to mobileOK
14:37:14 [jo]
... not sure if Kai is available to do this
14:37:41 [jo]
... at the moment we don't have anyone responsible so I don't see it moving forward
14:37:45 [jo]
dka: what?
14:37:45 [dom]
q?
14:38:07 [jo]
dom: what I said is that we need an editor who makes a proposal for how to move forward
14:38:16 [jo]
dka: that is Kai surely?
14:38:22 [Kai]
q+
14:38:23 [matt]
Present- Matt
14:38:38 [jo]
dom: well Kai said he's done but if he is able to move it forward?
14:38:49 [DKA]
ack kai
14:38:58 [jo]
dka: kai suggested some text so why don't we do that and move forward
14:39:31 [jo]
kai: I can make the changes but I have been beating my head on a brick wall and it won't move forward without group input
14:39:55 [jo]
... I can provide text for the new context but I need guidance on what to do
14:40:07 [jo]
... need directed feedback and I will implement that
14:40:20 [DKA]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Regarding BP 1.5 - new document title is "Additional Tests for Mobile Web Best Practices 1.0".
14:40:51 [jeffs]
suggestion: add to title "Requiring Human Intervention"??
14:41:01 [jo]
dom: I can understand your frustration at the lack of feedback ... from my perspective the current draft is a long way from what we discussed in June, which is an addendum discussing further testing on BP
14:41:15 [achuter]
achuter has joined #bpwg
14:41:34 [jo]
... I'd expect a bit more proposals on the new title and a bit more re-organisation
14:41:51 [jo]
kai: the document was completely re-worked as a result of your feedback
14:42:06 [dom]
[The sections "Note to BPWG:" need to disappear]
14:42:18 [jo]
... made lots of suggestions but we need to decide on it
14:42:27 [Zakim]
+??P0
14:42:34 [achuter]
zakim, ??PO is me
14:42:34 [Zakim]
sorry, achuter, I do not recognize a party named '??PO'
14:42:39 [achuter]
zakim, ??P0 is me
14:42:39 [Zakim]
+achuter; got it
14:42:53 [jo]
... no decisions made at sofia on what I was supposed to do, I will do the work if I am told what to do
14:43:12 [jeffs]
want me to read through this weekend and email suggestions for text-content?? (not another issue pls <grin/>)
14:43:37 [jo]
dom: one of the things I would have expected is an ISSUE on the new title and we need to have a discussion on it - independent of review
14:43:49 [jo]
kai: that seems less important to me than discussion of the content
14:43:51 [jo]
q+
14:43:57 [jo]
ack me
14:43:57 [DKA]
ack jo
14:45:10 [jeffs]
Abstract seems to establish scope: "This document outlines a set of tests requiring human evaluation"... am I wrong?
14:45:13 [Kai]
ISSUE: What is the new name of document, currently called "mobileOK Pro Tests Version 1", which is supposed to be an addendum to the Best Practices document, to be?
14:45:13 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-272 - What is the new name of document, currently called \"mobileOK Pro Tests Version 1\", which is supposed to be an addendum to the Best Practices document, to be? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/272/edit .
14:46:04 [jeffs]
given what the abstract says, how about establishing "human intervention req'd" as the scope??
14:46:08 [Kai]
ISSUE: Is the mobileOK Pro Tests document supposed to be an addendum to the Best Practices document or to the Basic Tests document?
14:46:08 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-273 - Is the mobileOK Pro Tests document supposed to be an addendum to the Best Practices document or to the Basic Tests document? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/273/edit .
14:46:26 [jo]
jo: I think that before we do anything else we need to make sure that we have precised its purpose and that we make sure we are clear whether we are doing "a useful clarifications on BP 1.0" or a "here are some handy tests" the former is what I thought we agreed in Sophia
14:46:50 [Kai]
ISSUE: Which texts are missing from the addendum that are needed to turn it into an addendum?
14:46:50 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-274 - Which texts are missing from the addendum that are needed to turn it into an addendum? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/274/edit .
14:47:20 [jo]
dka: think that the bits on "what's additional" needs to be separated from "what to test"
14:48:04 [jeffs]
given what the abstract says, how about establishing "human intervention req'd" as the scope??
14:48:11 [jo]
... material that is clarification of BP 1.0 can be pulled out into a separate section, if we did that it would make it a lot mroe coherent
14:48:19 [jo]
s/mrow/more/
14:48:38 [jo]
kai: we set out to fill the gaps and provide human tests,
14:48:56 [jo]
dka: I am not referring to human vs computer
14:49:08 [jo]
... in BP 1.0 there are sections that say "what to test"
14:49:31 [jo]
... we don't need to emphasize the human vs, machine tests
14:50:05 [jo]
achuter: if this is an addendum to the best practices then ... [sorry missed it]
14:50:41 [achuter]
the tests would cover the BP 1.0 and the addendum
14:50:41 [Kai]
achuter: then the basic tests will be the tests and the addendum?
14:52:02 [jo]
dka: anything in BP 1.5 that is not a test can be pulled out as a clarification on BP 1.0 - everything else can remain as a set of additional tests which can be considered as addenda to the "how to test it" bit in BP 1.0
14:53:05 [jo]
kai: there are some sections in there - we tried to provide bracketing so that people running different tests would come up with the same answers - like how many links on the same page - that can certainly be pulled out as additional information
14:53:39 [jo]
... so the test bit is sometimes quite intuitive and clear and I am not sure it helps to pull that out,
14:54:34 [jo]
... notes to bp, limitations of the tests, interpretation of the best practices, differences to mobileOK basic tests, procedures and examples, not sure if this is useful as every bp is covered comprehensively
14:54:44 [jo]
q+
14:54:54 [DKA]
ack jo
14:55:53 [Kai]
q+
14:56:11 [jo]
jo: need to move on
14:56:24 [DKA]
ack kai
14:56:30 [dom]
zakim, mute me
14:56:30 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
14:56:35 [jo]
... suggest first step is to make sure we agree with content, then decide whether to move it around
14:56:57 [jo]
dka: need some actions, need specific things to make sure people review
14:57:28 [dom]
[well, it's not exactly how to apply the BP to improve their content, but how to check whether they indeed apply the BP, isn't it?]
14:57:31 [jo]
kai: think we just need to add some explanatory text that heps people understand that this will help them make better content
14:57:52 [jo]
dka: if we get no feedback by next week we take a resultion to publish as a draft
14:58:19 [jo]
kai: I will take an action to write explanatory text and see how we like it
14:58:25 [jo]
topic: BP 2.0
14:58:39 [DKA]
ack bry
14:58:46 [jo]
dka: adam is not on call, bryan, any comment on status
14:59:25 [Kai]
ACTION: Kai to provide explanatory text for the addendum which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in the correct context and explain to the audience that it is intended to aid content authors in creating still better content.
14:59:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-837 - Provide explanatory text for the addendum which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in the correct context and explain to the audience that it is intended to aid content authors in creating still better content. [on Kai Scheppe - due 2008-09-11].
14:59:45 [jo]
bryan: current draft has a number of areas where further input is requested - not clear what adn why we are looking for some of the feedback
14:59:49 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-mwabp-20080729/ MWABP
15:00:08 [jo]
... been reviewing and there are some things I'd like to put back from what was in earlier drafts
15:00:26 [jo]
... think that some of the input was already there but has been removed
15:01:20 [jo]
... useful doc and developing well, but I'd like to see it get back to a degree of detail and contextual rationale in the the interests of being terse but I don't know that serves the reader or the developers who will read it
15:02:11 [jo]
dka: partly as a result of your not being at last F2F, perhaps there can be an editorial workshop between now and next F2F
15:03:03 [jo]
bryan: yes an editorial conference call would be useful (note that I will not be in Cannes)
15:03:14 [jo]
dka: maybe we can do a video link?
15:03:37 [jo]
bryan: [c is for] conference call, that's good enough for me
15:03:57 [jo]
dka: I will take an action to organise an editorial meeting
15:04:24 [jo]
... yada yada I am so busy, um,
15:04:32 [jo]
... week after next
15:04:32 [DKA]
grrr
15:05:45 [jo]
bryan: we need to consider also the response from Webapps to our contribution on Widget requirements and so we may need to fill that gap in our document
15:06:23 [jo]
dka: we need to nail down where the gap is between what they are doing and what is needed
15:06:34 [jo]
... think they are looking at mobile first
15:07:15 [jo]
bryan: specifically they are not addressing capability negotiation and disclosure - we did a bunch of stuff in DDWG which is being ignored
15:07:33 [jo]
... basically they are ignoring the need for content adaptation technologies
15:07:57 [dom]
[I think the WebApps WG is focusing on *packaging* of Widgets, not any deeper than that at this time]
15:08:03 [jo]
... which is fine so long as you are looking at closed client server like applications, rather than open web
15:08:29 [jo]
... so either we need to deal with it or we need to convince them that they need to put it into their requirements
15:08:33 [jo]
q+
15:08:34 [dom]
[well, maybe not...]
15:08:46 [jo]
dka: we need to make the input
15:08:59 [jo]
bryan: we did so and it was rejected
15:09:11 [DKA]
ack jo
15:09:16 [jo]
dka: well maybe we need to get back to them
15:10:57 [jo]
jo: we did discuss this last week, we decided at that point that we had made our contribution and that we had probably done enough
15:11:22 [jo]
dka: well if bryan takes an action, then maybe we would have more to discuss with them
15:11:41 [jo]
ACTION: Bryan to summarise points to take back to the WebApps group
15:11:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-838 - Summarise points to take back to the WebApps group [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2008-09-11].
15:12:10 [jo]
ACTION: Dan to arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule
15:12:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-839 - Arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2008-09-11].
15:12:49 [jo]
bryan: I kind of agree with Jo that the best way to address this might be for us just to add the material to our stuff
15:13:06 [jo]
dka: I am a bit worried that we don't really want to dive to deeply into eidget specific stuff
15:13:18 [jo]
s/eidget/widget/
15:13:40 [jo]
q+ to remidn dan that Dom has something
15:13:43 [dom]
q+ to talk about mobileOK
15:13:48 [jo]
q-
15:14:07 [jo]
Topic: Accessibility - coordination etc.
15:15:03 [jo]
achuter: the mapping document has been dragging on for a long time and been through lots of versions - feedback has finished so there is not much else to do
15:15:12 [achuter]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080901/Overview.html
15:15:23 [jo]
... I'd like someone to check it, but have checked it myself
15:16:24 [achuter]
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080901/together.html
15:16:30 [jo]
... I think we can sign it off as there not being anything else we can do, needs more work on the WCAG side, but the section references may change and may need review on publication of WCAG 2.0
15:17:22 [jo]
... there is also a question about what to do about the document referring to what to do if you want to do WCAG 2 and BP - whether to leave it as it or to make an empty document
15:17:52 [jo]
dka: don't we need another draft before we put it into limbo
15:18:17 [jo]
achuter: no major changes some minor stuff
15:18:25 [dom]
ack me
15:18:26 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to talk about mobileOK
15:18:36 [jo]
dom: no comments
15:18:41 [dom]
q+ to talk about mobileOK
15:19:58 [jo]
dom: both groups just need to publish the douments as a group note. that's all
15:20:27 [jo]
achuter: just need to resolve the "doing both" issue
15:20:48 [jo]
... but think it is stable as is
15:21:04 [dom]
s/just need to/just need to agree to/
15:21:14 [DKA]
q?
15:21:14 [dom]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Sep/0004.html
15:21:17 [jo]
dka: we'll try to take that resolution next week
15:21:18 [dom]
ack me
15:21:18 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to talk about mobileOK
15:21:19 [DKA]
ack dom
15:21:32 [jo]
Topic: mobileOK
15:21:39 [Zakim]
-achuter
15:22:07 [jo]
dom: late last call comment from WSC on mobileOK which we need to respond to and integrate into the document
15:23:06 [jo]
... also next step for mobileOK basic is to wait to complete implementation report for Google to become mobileOK basic conformant.
15:23:25 [jo]
... so should we revisit the decision to wait or should we go ahead
15:23:44 [jo]
dka: think it would be better to have google quoted
15:24:24 [jo]
dom: to clarify fd has been working with them, and I think we should time-box waiting any longer
15:24:48 [jo]
dka: let's wait for fd to get back and make a decision next week once he has feedback
15:24:52 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to work with francois on getting a schedule on getting google.com mobileOK basic
15:24:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-840 - Work with francois on getting a schedule on getting google.com mobileOK basic [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2008-09-11].
15:25:34 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-comments/2008JulSep/0137.html comment https in mobileOK from WSC WG
15:26:39 [dom]
[yoohoo, another editors version of mobileOK coming!]
15:26:44 [jo]
jo: don't have objection to the WSC wording which I agree is more accurate
15:26:57 [Zakim]
-Pontus
15:26:58 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
15:27:01 [Zakim]
-Kai
15:27:03 [Zakim]
-dom
15:27:05 [jeffs]
quit
15:27:06 [Zakim]
-SeanP
15:27:08 [jo]
zakim, drop me
15:27:08 [Zakim]
jo is being disconnected
15:27:09 [Zakim]
-jo
15:27:11 [jsmanrique]
bye
15:27:14 [Zakim]
-jsmanrique
15:27:18 [Zakim]
-DaveRooks
15:27:35 [jo]
ACTION: JO to review WSC comment and propose new wording
15:27:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-841 - Review WSC comment and propose new wording [on Jo Rabin - due 2008-09-11].
15:27:56 [jo]
zakim, who is here?
15:27:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jeffs (muted), DKA
15:27:58 [Zakim]
On IRC I see SeanP, Kai, jo, dstorey, jsmanrique, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, trackbot, dom
15:28:06 [jo]
zakim, drop jeffs, dka
15:28:06 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'drop jeffs, dka', jo
15:28:18 [jo]
zakim, drop jeffs
15:28:18 [Zakim]
jeffs is being disconnected
15:28:19 [Zakim]
-jeffs
15:28:23 [jo]
zakim, drop dka
15:28:23 [Zakim]
DKA is being disconnected
15:28:25 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
15:28:27 [Zakim]
Attendees were jeffs, Bryan_Sullivan, DKA, Pontus, dom, DaveRooks, jsmanrique, miguel, jo, achuter, Kai, SeanP
15:29:01 [jo]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-minutes.html jo
15:29:58 [dom]
zakim, bye
15:29:58 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #bpwg
15:32:42 [jo]
s/tot he/to the/
15:33:24 [jo]
s/even ahve a preface/even have a preface
15:34:38 [jo]
s/made at sofia on what/made at Sophia on what
15:35:28 [dom]
jo, I sent the minutes already
15:35:29 [jo]
s/mroe coherent/more coherent
15:35:35 [dom]
I'll make these corrections in the online version
15:35:36 [jo]
ergh
15:35:43 [dom]
RRSAgent, bye
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-actions.rdf :
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dom to contact Stéphane to see if he is interested in presenting MW4D to BPWG at TPAC [1]
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc#T14-23-43
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dom to look into a restaurant for Monday night at TPAC - due 2008-10-01 [2]
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc#T14-25-12
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Kai to provide explanatory text for the addendum which will put the document (mobileOK Pro Tests 1) in the correct context and explain to the audience that it is intended to aid content authors in creating still better content. [3]
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc#T14-59-25
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bryan to summarise points to take back to the WebApps group [4]
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc#T15-11-41
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dan to arrange BP 2.0 editorial meeting to fit in with his hectic globe trotting schedule [5]
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc#T15-12-10
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dom to work with francois on getting a schedule on getting google.com mobileOK basic [6]
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc#T15-24-52
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JO to review WSC comment and propose new wording [7]
15:35:43 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-bpwg-irc#T15-27-35
15:35:52 [jo]
s|s/mrow/more/||