IRC log of swd on 2008-09-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:55:50 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc
14:55:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swd
14:55:58 [Ralph]
zakim, this will be swd
14:55:58 [Zakim]
ok, Ralph, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started
14:56:04 [Ralph]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:56:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P13
14:56:15 [Ralph]
Meeting: Semantic Web Deployment Working Group
14:56:22 [TomB]
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14:56:24 [Ralph]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0000.html
14:56:35 [Zakim]
+??P18
14:56:38 [Ralph]
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html
14:56:51 [TomB]
zakim, ??P18 is me
14:56:51 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
14:57:08 [Zakim]
+Ralph
14:57:26 [Ralph]
zakim, ??p18 is Daniel_Rubin
14:57:26 [Zakim]
I already had ??P18 as TomB, Ralph
14:57:36 [Ralph]
zakim, ??p13 is Daniel_Rubin
14:57:36 [Zakim]
+Daniel_Rubin; got it
14:57:57 [JonP]
JonP has joined #swd
14:58:30 [Zakim]
+Martin
14:58:34 [berrueta]
zakim, Martin is me
14:58:34 [Zakim]
+berrueta; got it
14:59:29 [Ralph]
Regrets: Jeremy, Alistair, Margherita, Elisa, Sean (at risk)
14:59:58 [Ralph]
Chair: Guus
15:00:52 [Zakim]
+Jon_Phipps
15:00:57 [Guus]
Guus has joined #swd
15:01:21 [Zakim]
+Guus_Schreiber
15:01:24 [JonP]
zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
15:01:25 [Zakim]
+JonP; got it
15:01:32 [Antoine]
Antoine has joined #swd
15:04:01 [edsu]
edsu has joined #swd
15:04:15 [berrueta]
scribe: berrueta
15:04:22 [Zakim]
+Antoine_Isaac
15:04:26 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
15:04:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Daniel_Rubin, TomB, Ralph, berrueta, JonP, Guus_Schreiber, Antoine_Isaac
15:04:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see edsu, Antoine, Guus, JonP, TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent, berrueta, Ralph
15:04:57 [Zakim]
+[LC]
15:05:05 [Ralph]
zakim, lc is Ed
15:05:06 [Zakim]
+Ed; got it
15:05:20 [seanb]
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15:06:45 [berrueta]
topic: Admin
15:06:51 [berrueta]
PROPOSED to accept minutes of the last telecon
15:07:12 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
15:07:15 [berrueta]
Guus: small ammendment re action to the chairs, proposed to drop
15:07:23 [Zakim]
+??P74
15:07:24 [berrueta]
... no need to change the minutes
15:07:29 [seanb]
zakim, ??P74 is me
15:07:29 [Zakim]
+seanb; got it
15:07:57 [berrueta]
Ralph: chairs need to send mail to other WGs
15:08:05 [Ralph]
[DROP] ACTION: Chairs to request Last Call for SKOS Reference [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html#action04]
15:08:15 [berrueta]
RESOLVED to accept minutes of the Aug 26 telecon: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html
15:08:43 [berrueta]
Guus: I don't expect very busy telecons next weeks, mostly focus on SKOS
15:08:49 [berrueta]
... propose to meet on 16 and 30 sep
15:09:08 [Ralph]
Ralph: regrets for 16 Sep
15:09:15 [berrueta]
... LC comments on SKOS in the agenda
15:09:29 [berrueta]
... probably short telecons
15:09:31 [Ralph]
Guus: also regrets for 16 Sep; Tom will chair
15:09:53 [berrueta]
RESOLVED next telecons 16 and 30 sep
15:10:14 [berrueta]
topic: RDFa
15:10:30 [berrueta]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0086.html RDFa PR request was sent out
15:10:44 [berrueta]
Guus: main thing to do is to schedule meeting with director
15:11:03 [berrueta]
... proposed tomorrow 1830 UTC
15:11:14 [berrueta]
ben: regrets, I've got a conflict
15:11:30 [berrueta]
... half hour later would work
15:11:40 [berrueta]
Guus: propose we fix it for 1900 UTC tomorrow
15:12:02 [berrueta]
... formally speaking, after this meeting, supposing request is approved, not much to do
15:12:16 [berrueta]
... publish the Primer as a Note
15:12:42 [berrueta]
ben: editing the Primer, Ed comments
15:13:17 [berrueta]
... discussion on trying to make RDFa to work in HTML4/5
15:13:37 [berrueta]
... trying to put together a couple of wiki pages on this
15:13:56 [berrueta]
... formally, we're wrapping up at this point wrt the charter
15:15:11 [berrueta]
guus: check with the coord group if futher actions are needed, by the end of the year we're wrapping up
15:15:44 [berrueta]
... schedule discussion with Ivan, we might decide nothing more is needed
15:16:31 [berrueta]
Guus: action on ben that appears here is related to SKOS, not to RDFa
15:16:55 [berrueta]
ACTION: Ben to write a short message to the list about how to enter in Issues so that they can be tracked [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:16:58 [berrueta]
--continues
15:17:16 [berrueta]
ben: this will be done in an hour
15:17:46 [berrueta]
ben: taskforce is ready to publish primer and UC as a note
15:17:50 [berrueta]
topic: Recipes
15:18:07 [berrueta]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-swbp-vocab-pub-20080828/ Recipes published as Working Group Note
15:18:18 [berrueta]
Guus: thanks to the editors, very useful doc
15:18:28 [berrueta]
ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03]
15:18:29 [berrueta]
--done
15:18:40 [berrueta]
ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
15:18:47 [berrueta]
--continues
15:18:59 [berrueta]
topic: Vocabulary Management
15:19:23 [berrueta]
Guus: nothing to report here
15:19:28 [berrueta]
topic: AOB
15:20:09 [Ralph]
Diego: I've put an update to the "Minimum RDFa metadata set for WG deliverables" draft in the wiki
15:20:13 [Ralph]
... Ed reviewing now
15:20:21 [Ralph]
... may be ready for WG to review in a week
15:20:22 [berrueta]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/AddingRDFaToTR?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=draft.html current draft (Metadata for TR)
15:20:58 [berrueta]
ACTION: Diego to put the Wiki page on RDFa metadata in a Note form [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action11]
15:21:00 [berrueta]
--done
15:21:29 [berrueta]
ACTION: Jeremy to review Curie syntax doc by Sep 05 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action12]
15:21:32 [berrueta]
--continues
15:21:37 [berrueta]
topic: SKOS
15:22:06 [berrueta]
Guus: schedule is feasible
15:22:28 [berrueta]
seanb: if we get no comments at all, is that bad?
15:22:31 [berrueta]
Guus: yes, it is
15:22:59 [berrueta]
Ralph: we need reviews for each transition
15:23:06 [berrueta]
... no comments would be a bad thing
15:23:28 [berrueta]
... editors please send the announce to mailing lists
15:23:45 [berrueta]
edsu: try to target people using SKOS now (eg.: Dbpedia)?
15:24:07 [berrueta]
Ralph: we have features at risk, we need feedback from people using SKOS
15:24:23 [berrueta]
Guus: we should explicitly request feedback from those people
15:24:42 [berrueta]
edsu: should I create a wiki page listing SKOS users?
15:25:30 [berrueta]
Guus: sean, could you please send mail to the users' mailing lists?
15:25:40 [berrueta]
Guus: target users, particularly developers
15:26:09 [berrueta]
edsu: i can investigate potential lists
15:27:56 [berrueta]
ACTION: SKOS Reference editors to send mail asking for feedback from users
15:28:28 [berrueta]
Guus: we might want to look to existing implementations of SKOS
15:28:50 [berrueta]
Guus: Antoine, do you have a SKOS web service in your project?
15:28:53 [berrueta]
Antoine: yes
15:29:13 [berrueta]
... not sure if compatible with latest specs
15:29:37 [berrueta]
Guus: should we provide a test bed?
15:30:12 [berrueta]
seanb: what the test bed should test for? we don't have "conformance" requirements
15:30:28 [berrueta]
Guus: I would expect a SKOS validator, similar to the OWL validator
15:30:39 [berrueta]
... that would surely be an implementation
15:30:53 [berrueta]
Antoine: also SKOS editors?
15:31:05 [berrueta]
Guus: probably yes
15:31:19 [Ralph]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-EARL10-Schema-20070323/#conformance EARL
15:31:39 [berrueta]
Ralph: thinking about similar vocabs, eg. EARL
15:31:51 [berrueta]
... pretty loose definition of "conformance"
15:32:35 [berrueta]
seanb: who would decide which ones are implementations
15:33:23 [berrueta]
... we can provide examples of violations of the specs
15:33:35 [berrueta]
Ralph: i don't think it's a good idea
15:34:05 [berrueta]
... any tool that uses SKOS data is an implementation
15:34:17 [berrueta]
Guus: and also SKOS data itself
15:34:50 [berrueta]
... the typical req is that every feature is supported by at least 2 implementations
15:35:27 [berrueta]
Ralph: it would be nice to show that every SKOS feature has been used by at least one vocab
15:36:10 [berrueta]
Guus: the LC period is a nice time to start working on the implementation report
15:36:43 [berrueta]
... define a format to describe implementations, and ask people to contribute implementations in this format
15:37:13 [berrueta]
... build a table of SKOS constructs and how they're used
15:37:58 [edsu]
i just got guus' point about the skos vocabulary itself being an implementation of skos...
15:38:11 [berrueta]
seanb: we need to define what we mean for "validator" in this context (too strict?)
15:38:36 [berrueta]
Guus: validator is able to read a SKOS vocab and flag potential problems wrt semantics
15:38:46 [berrueta]
seanb: validator or checker?
15:39:03 [edsu]
+1 for checker
15:39:13 [berrueta]
seanb: validation has connotations (validation wrt a schema), checker might be a better name
15:41:00 [berrueta]
ACTION: Sean to add a request for implementations to the mail asking for feedback
15:41:46 [berrueta]
Guus: that's all for now wrt implementations
15:42:10 [berrueta]
... we need to make significant progress in september in the implementation report
15:42:46 [berrueta]
ACTION: Guus to confirm w/ OWL Chairs and Coordination Group that the LC period is OK [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:42:48 [berrueta]
--done
15:43:00 [berrueta]
Guus: didn't get any response, that's good
15:43:27 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-semweb-cg/2008Aug/0018.html "SKOS Last Call" [Guus to SWCG 2008-08-27]
15:44:22 [berrueta]
Antoine: question about formatting of figures and tables
15:44:42 [berrueta]
Ralph: the checker complained, that's why we delete them
15:45:29 [berrueta]
... we can republish a new primer if you want
15:45:39 [berrueta]
... it's up to the editors to decide
15:46:00 [berrueta]
Guus: you can decide later
15:46:46 [berrueta]
Antoine: the primer should be ready by the time the Reference is a Rec
15:46:55 [Ralph]
Ralph: Antoine had copied the WD stylesheet in-line and I had to remove it. I did not notice that he had also added some styles for notes, sorry. I sent him mail as I was preparing the publication but he was not able to respond in time.
15:46:57 [berrueta]
Guus: use cases should also be read
15:47:38 [berrueta]
s/read/ready
15:48:10 [berrueta]
Guus: editors should go through the document and suggest adaptions, not critical yet
15:48:30 [berrueta]
Guus: about OWL2 annotations, any feedback?
15:48:41 [berrueta]
seanb: no explicit yet, discussion still ongoing
15:49:04 [berrueta]
Guus: and about the quick reference?
15:49:19 [berrueta]
seanb: would be something interesting, not necesarily volunteering
15:49:24 [berrueta]
ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:49:26 [berrueta]
--continues
15:50:42 [berrueta]
Guus: editors of the SKOS UC are Antoine, Jon, Daniel
15:50:52 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:50:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-minutes.html Ralph
15:51:17 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please make logs public
15:51:49 [berrueta]
edsu: assuming SKOS ends as Rec, do we need any space where people can share experiences and extensions about using SKOS?
15:52:52 [berrueta]
Guus: we may decide that thesuarus mailing list or semantic-web are the right places
15:53:02 [Ralph]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to write a short message to the list about how toenter in Issues so that they can be tracked [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:53:02 [Ralph]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Sep/0007.html "DisCo: extracting Tracker data into a Disposition of Comments Document" [Ben 2008-09-02]
15:53:21 [Ralph]
s/toenter/to enter/
15:53:33 [Ralph]
zakim, list attendees
15:53:33 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been TomB, Ralph, Daniel_Rubin, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, JonP, Antoine_Isaac, Ed, Ben_Adida, seanb
15:53:43 [Zakim]
-Daniel_Rubin
15:53:44 [seanb]
seanb has left #swd
15:53:44 [Zakim]
-TomB
15:53:45 [Zakim]
-Ed
15:53:46 [Ralph]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:53:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-minutes.html Ralph
15:53:47 [Zakim]
-Ben_Adida
15:53:47 [berrueta]
[adjourned]
15:53:47 [Zakim]
-Guus_Schreiber
15:53:49 [Zakim]
-JonP
15:53:49 [Zakim]
-seanb
15:54:02 [Zakim]
-berrueta
15:54:21 [edsu]
edsu has left #swd
15:55:24 [Antoine]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/primer/primer-20080826.html
16:00:51 [Zakim]
-Ralph
16:00:52 [Zakim]
-Antoine_Isaac
16:01:01 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:01:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were TomB, Ralph, Daniel_Rubin, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, JonP, Antoine_Isaac, Ed, Ben_Adida, seanb
16:06:57 [Ralph]
zakim, bye
16:06:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swd
16:06:59 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-actions.rdf :
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to write a short message to the list about how to enter in Issues so that they can be tracked [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html#action05] [1]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-16-55
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03] [2]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-18-28
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [3]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-18-40
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Diego to put the Wiki page on RDFa metadata in a Note form [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action11] [4]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-20-58
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeremy to review Curie syntax doc by Sep 05 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action12] [5]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-21-29
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: SKOS Reference editors to send mail asking for feedback from users [6]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-27-56
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sean to add a request for implementations to the mail asking for feedback [7]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-41-00
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to confirm w/ OWL Chairs and Coordination Group that the LC period is OK [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html#action06] [8]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-42-46
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01] [9]
16:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/02-swd-irc#T15-49-24