14:54:13 RRSAgent has joined #swd 14:54:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc 14:54:20 rrsagent, bookmark 14:54:20 See http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T14-54-20 14:54:24 edsu has joined #swd 14:54:25 zakim, this will be swd 14:54:25 ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started 14:54:29 Meeting: SWD WG 14:54:32 Chair: Tom 14:54:42 rrsagent, please make record public 14:55:00 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0068.html 14:55:09 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html 14:55:17 Regrets: Vit, Elisa 14:57:31 berrueta has joined #swd 14:57:58 qreul has joined #swd 14:58:49 seanb has joined #swd 14:58:52 + +0122427aaaa 14:59:17 +Ralph 14:59:31 zakim, aaaa is Qreul 14:59:32 +Qreul; got it 14:59:48 +[LC] 14:59:55 zakim, LC is edsu 14:59:55 +edsu; got it 15:00:56 +Ben_Adida 15:01:04 aliman has joined #swd 15:01:34 +??P33 15:01:37 zakim, ??P33 is me 15:01:42 +[CTIC] 15:01:46 zakim, [CTIC] is me 15:01:50 +seanb; got it 15:02:02 +??P3 15:02:04 +berrueta; got it 15:02:09 benadida has joined #swd 15:02:26 Guus has joined #swd 15:02:52 dlrubin has joined #swd 15:03:23 +??P42 15:03:35 +??P41 15:03:49 zakim, p42 is dlrubin 15:03:49 sorry, dlrubin, I do not recognize a party named 'p42' 15:03:50 zakim, who is here? 15:03:50 On the phone I see ??P4, Qreul, Ralph, edsu, Ben_Adida, seanb, berrueta, ??P3, ??P42, ??P41 15:03:52 On IRC I see dlrubin, Guus, benadida, aliman, seanb, qreul, berrueta, edsu, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomB, Ralph 15:04:10 zakim, p42 is Daniel 15:04:10 sorry, dlrubin, I do not recognize a party named 'p42' 15:04:18 zakim, ??p41 is AliMan 15:04:18 +AliMan; got it 15:04:23 zakim, ?p3 is Guus 15:04:23 sorry, Guus, I do not recognize a party named '?p3' 15:04:29 zakim, ??p42 is dlrubn 15:04:29 +dlrubn; got it 15:04:39 zakim, ??p3 is Guus 15:04:39 +Guus; got it 15:04:44 zakim, dlrubn is really dlrubin 15:04:44 +dlrubin; got it 15:04:45 zakim, who is on the call? 15:04:45 On the phone I see ??P4, Qreul, Ralph, edsu, Ben_Adida, seanb, berrueta, Guus, dlrubin, AliMan 15:04:58 zakim, ??p4 is TomB 15:04:58 +TomB; got it 15:05:12 Scribenick: edsu 15:05:13 +Antoine_Isaac 15:05:21 Antoine has joined #swd 15:05:34 Topic: Admin 15:05:56 RESOLVED to accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html 15:06:06 Topic: SKOS 15:06:25 TomB: we have to reviews of the SKOS Reference 15:06:35 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20080820/ 15:07:10 Margherita is not here to give her reaction to the response 15:07:26 TomB: we have two issues: skos labeling properties, and the aspects of owl2 annotations 15:07:53 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0065.html "SKOS Labelling Properties" [Sean 2008-08-22] 15:08:23 seanb: wrt labeling properties, in the reference it doesn't explicitly state that the labeling properties are subproperties of rdfs:label 15:08:55 ... alistair and i discussed this, i felt that they should be subproperties of rdfs:label, alistair was ambivalent, guus was in support 15:09:49 TomB: are we ready to take a decision on Last Call, my only concern is Margherita isn't here 15:09:59 Guus: do we have a proposal from the editors? 15:10:21 seanb: can we make it now? 15:10:39 Ralph: the revised reference is published or not published? 15:11:19 Guus: send an email to the list quickly, and propose it as a LC working draft 15:11:40 Ralph: i think the group has been following along and understands that the aug 22 document would be coming up today 15:11:46 ... don't feel a strong reason to delay 15:13:12 ACTION: Sean and Alistair to propose a revised SKOS Reference for the last call by Fri 22/08/08 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action01] 15:13:17 --done 15:13:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0082.html 15:14:12 Ralph: lets resolve to publish, but wait till weds to see if Margherita responds 15:14:36 PROPOSED: That the draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20080820/ 15:15:21 PROPOSED: That the draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20080820/ be published as a last call working draft with 24 hr delay to see if Margherita responds 15:16:15 PROPOSED: That the draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20080820/ be published as a last call working draft unless Margherita objects by Aug 27th 16:00 UTC 15:16:37 RESOLVED: That the draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/20080820/ be published as a last call working draft unless Margherita objects by Aug 27th 16:00 UTC 15:16:49 TomB: congrats to editors 15:17:38 ACTION: Ralph and Guus to review the Primer Editor's Draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action06] 15:18:14 Ralph: we're currently inconsistent between the primer and reference about the URI for the SKOS namespace 15:19:05 TomB: has it been corrected? 15:19:14 Antoine: still incorrect 15:19:24 Ralph: reference uses 2008, primer uses 2004 15:20:59 ACTION: Ralph and Guus to review the Primer Editor's Draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action06] 15:21:25 --dropped 15:21:52 Antoine: it's corrected right now ... 15:22:02 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SKOSPrimer-080826.html 15:22:52 PROPOSED: that the draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SKOSPrimer-080826.html be published as an updated working draft 15:23:17 RESOLVED: that the draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SKOSPrimer-080826.html be published as an updated working draft 15:23:47 GuusS has joined #swd 15:24:11 Guus: we have to have actions to draft the request, and fix the last call period 15:24:34 ACTION: Chairs to request Last Call for SKOS Reference 15:25:09 GuusS: we have to think about the dependencies we have on other groups, who we should ask explicitly for a review, and decide on period 15:25:17 TomB: should we discuss now? 15:25:27 Ralph: we could brainstorm on groups 15:25:34 ... the OWL group is an obvious one 15:26:09 GuusS: I think 5 week period would be fine, publish on Friday, which would bring us to 3 Oct 15:26:29 Ralph: seems fine 15:26:47 GuusS: need to LC training for editors 15:27:10 PROPOSED: 5 week LC period for SKOS Reference, lasting until 3 Oct 15:27:34 Ralph: i will be unavailable sep 9-18 15:27:59 TomB: I second 15:28:01 +1 15:28:05 RESOLVED: 5 week LC period for SKOS Reference, lasting until 3 Oct 15:28:41 Ralph: we're supposed to notify chairs, and get them to agree on the date we've proposed 15:28:48 GuusS: which groups do we need to inform? 15:29:00 Ralph: perhaps we could check charter :) 15:29:05 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/swdwg-charter SWD charter 15:29:51 Ralph: Rules Working Group probably doesn't care about SKOS, SWEO doesn't exist anymore 15:30:03 GuusS: I don't think we have any formal dependencies 15:30:15 Ralph: I think OWL we should request comments from 15:30:59 GuusS: perhaps the coordination group 15:31:23 Ralph: perhaps you could send mail to the OWL Chairs and the CG, with the last call period 15:32:13 Ralph: LC is a statement to the world that technically we think we're done, other than things we documented as 'at risk' 15:32:57 q+ 15:33:40 ... we expect only editorial changes, we are required to respond to all email messages, accepting or modifying each editorial suggestion, hopefully any technical questions can be resolved based on our previous discussions, it's important we respond on a timely basis to all email messages after we publish LC 15:34:58 q+ 15:35:34 GuusS: when we get comments, be extremely polite, delay responding if you don't know how, it's custom to quote the document, don't come up w/ a new argument that's not in the document 15:36:04 ... also use the magic phrase "can you live with these changes" to get consensus, and try to get the response "yes" 15:36:16 ... we typically use the issue list, like you saw RDFa doing 15:36:29 use the phrase "Last Call Comment:" in the title of an issue 15:36:39 ... if it's a small editorial thing might not be necessary, anything other than that raise the LC issue pointing to the message 15:36:58 Ralph: even for small edits, so we have a list when we go to the Director 15:37:35 ... if you include "last call comment:" ben has a handy script for compiling these 15:38:06 for example, -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/112 15:38:28 benadida: i should write up short guide, you effectively enter a little bit of structured data to the issue text 15:38:50 ACTION: Ben to write a short message to the list about how to enter in Issues so that they can be tracked 15:39:04 GuusS: aliman, seanb you comfortable w/ this? 15:39:12 aliman, seanb: yup 15:39:49 GuusS: good to propose response to the list first 15:40:08 q+ to ask, who drafts the announcement emails? 15:41:27 ACTION: Guus to confirm w/ OWL Chairs and Coordination Group that the LC period is OK 15:41:32 Topic: RDFa 15:41:54 TomB: RDFa Syntax, the XHTML WG has accepted 15:42:11 TomB: Diego and Ed reviewed 15:42:43 benadida: happy with both ed's comments 15:43:06 TomB: can we take a decision without having the edited version? 15:43:08 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0069.html Ed's comments 15:43:13 benadida: i think so 15:43:31 Ralph: I agree 15:44:33 Ralph: are we likely to get a reply from Allan? 15:44:45 benadida: he said he would look at it 15:44:59 ... don't think he will object 15:45:12 Ralph: not having acknowledgment doesn't need to block us 15:45:19 ACTION: Ed and Diego to review the latest RDFa Syntax Editor's Draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action07] 15:45:23 --done 15:46:12 Ralph: we received a lengthy set of comments from Allan that we decided were editorial, and have not received a response, but we can proceed in the absence of those comments, but we would prefer not to have to 15:46:21 ... ben is in close contact 15:46:44 benadida: he'll get back to the group, i'm not worried 15:48:31 PROPOSED: Semantic Web Deployment WG agrees transition RDFa from CR to PR 15:48:48 RESOLVED: Semantic Web Deployment WG agrees transition RDFa from CR to PR 15:48:58 TomB: thanks to the editors! 15:49:06 Ralph: and the reviewers 15:49:23 Topic: SKOS Issues 15:50:24 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0058.html Sean on annotations 15:50:27 seanb: what kind of requirements do we have for annotation properties, within the owl wg they felt they might provide annotation properties with open ended semantics 15:50:41 ... not sure how much discussion we can have without seeing detailed proposal 15:51:39 ... just wanted to make the WG aware, seems like it would take additional vocabulary 15:52:44 ... which would allow you to make assertions about annotation properties 15:53:12 Ralph: do you think properties like this are something that owl2 would eventually do? 15:53:49 seanb: from what i understood form talking to people, yes it could be ... some vocab would be defined without pinning down the semantics 15:54:18 ... they would be opaque to the owl reasoners 15:54:25 sean means things like "owl2:subAnnotationProperty" in addition to rdfs:subPropertyOf ... ? 15:54:36 ... i think it needs more detail for us to discuss, but thought it was worth raising for awareness 15:54:41 q+ to support the requirement, without any comment on the solution 15:54:49 ack ralph 15:54:56 zakim, unmute aliman 15:54:56 AliMan should no longer be muted 15:55:29 Ralph: if this is something that owl2 might have, then it might be premature to consider in the context of skos right now 15:55:59 seanb: i don't think it should impact what we are doing, but that it might be useful for a skos vocabulary, still speculative 15:56:02 ack aliman 15:56:02 aliman, you wanted to ask, who drafts the announcement emails? and to support the requirement, without any comment on the solution 15:56:10 ... wasn't proposing a change to the reference or skos schema 15:56:41 aliman: i don't know that we can make any comment without more detail 15:57:18 TomB: not clear to me if we need to take an action that we need to track 15:57:30 seanb: i can track down some details, and discuss on the list 15:57:47 +??P1 15:58:13 zakim, ??p1 is Margherita 15:58:13 +Margherita; got it 15:58:28 TomB: welcome Margherita 15:59:28 Margherita: why do you leave the SKOS elements open, that's my general question 15:59:39 TomB: having trouble understanding 16:00:03 Margherita: no problem, i will send in email ... i'm in india and the connection is not very reliable 16:00:32 marghe has joined #swd 16:00:46 Ralph: we would like to publish the SKOS Reference as LC, which means we don't plan on making any more technical changes, do you think we should have your discussion about irreflexivity and wait 16:01:03 marghe: all the comments on the list were fine for me 16:01:05 Margherita: all the responses to my comments seem ok. Generally, I wondered why more properties are not declared as irreflexive 16:01:52 TomB: it sounds like your concerns should not hold up LC? 16:02:00 marghe: definitely 16:02:28 TomB: so we'll go ahead w/ publication of LC working draft 16:02:45 q+ 16:02:58 ... perhaps we can combe back to SKOS Quick Reference next week 16:03:30 ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01] 16:03:35 --continues 16:03:45 ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] 16:03:49 --continues 16:03:55 ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03] 16:03:58 --continues 16:04:06 ACTION: Diego to put the Wiki page on RDFa metadata in a Note form [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action11] 16:04:10 --done 16:04:21 ACTION: Jeremy to review Curie syntax doc by Sep 05 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action12] 16:04:25 --continues 16:04:59 GuusS: for next time we need to put on the agenda the Implementation Report, and how we're going to handle the candidate rec period 16:05:09 ... last piece of real work, assuming LC goes well 16:05:16 s/period/period for SKOS 16:05:32 TomB: next call will be on 2 Sep 16:05:49 ... congrats to all the editors, see you next week 16:05:53 -Ben_Adida 16:05:54 -Qreul 16:05:57 -berrueta 16:05:58 -Guus 16:05:58 -Antoine_Isaac 16:05:59 -dlrubin 16:05:59 -AliMan 16:06:04 -Margherita 16:06:14 As of this point the attendees have been +0122427aaaa, Ralph, Qreul, edsu, Ben_Adida, seanb, berrueta, AliMan, Guus, dlrubin, TomB, Antoine_Isaac, Margherita 16:06:17 -seanb 16:06:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-minutes.html Ralph 16:07:03 -edsu 16:07:05 -Ralph 16:07:12 -TomB 16:07:26 marghe has left #swd 16:07:40 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 16:07:41 Attendees were +0122427aaaa, Ralph, Qreul, edsu, Ben_Adida, seanb, berrueta, AliMan, Guus, dlrubin, TomB, Antoine_Isaac, Margherita 16:11:13 seanb has left #swd 17:54:07 zakim, bye 17:54:07 Zakim has left #swd 17:54:09 rrsagent, bye 17:54:09 I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-actions.rdf : 17:54:09 ACTION: Sean and Alistair to propose a revised SKOS Reference for the last call by Fri 22/08/08 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action01] [1] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T15-13-12 17:54:09 ACTION: Ralph and Guus to review the Primer Editor's Draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action06] [2] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T15-17-38 17:54:09 ACTION: Ralph and Guus to review the Primer Editor's Draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action06] [3] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T15-20-59 17:54:09 ACTION: Chairs to request Last Call for SKOS Reference [4] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T15-24-34 17:54:09 ACTION: Ben to write a short message to the list about how to enter in Issues so that they can be tracked [5] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T15-38-50 17:54:09 ACTION: Guus to confirm w/ OWL Chairs and Coordination Group that the LC period is OK [6] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T15-41-27 17:54:09 ACTION: Ed and Diego to review the latest RDFa Syntax Editor's Draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action07] [7] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T15-45-19 17:54:09 ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01] [8] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T16-03-30 17:54:09 ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [9] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T16-03-45 17:54:09 ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03] [10] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T16-03-55 17:54:09 ACTION: Diego to put the Wiki page on RDFa metadata in a Note form [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action11] [11] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T16-04-06 17:54:09 ACTION: Jeremy to review Curie syntax doc by Sep 05 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html#action12] [12] 17:54:09 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/26-swd-irc#T16-04-21