IRC log of swd on 2008-08-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:16 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swd

14:55:16 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc

14:55:19 [TomB]

rrsagent, bookmark

14:55:19 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T14-55-19

14:55:24 [TomB]

zakim, this will be swd

14:55:24 [Zakim]

ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started

14:55:27 [TomB]

Meeting: SWD WG

14:55:32 [TomB]

Chair: Guus

14:55:32 [edsu]

Antoine: haha, no, my brothers :)

14:56:28 [Zakim]

+Ralph

14:56:30 [TomB]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0030.html

14:57:24 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html previous 2008-08-05

14:58:38 [TomB]

Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html

14:58:50 [TomB]

Regrets: Jon

14:58:57 [TomB]

rrsagent, please make record public

14:59:03 [TomB]

Regrets+ Margherita

14:59:21 [seanb]

seanb has joined #swd

14:59:46 [qreul]

qreul has joined #swd

15:00:05 [Zakim]

+??P12

15:00:19 [Zakim]

+[LC]

15:00:33 [Ralph]

zakim, lc is EdSu

15:00:34 [Zakim]

+EdSu; got it

15:00:41 [Zakim]

+ +22427aaaa

15:00:53 [Ralph]

zakim, aaaa is Quentin

15:00:53 [Zakim]

+Quentin; got it

15:01:08 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p12 is probably Alistair

15:01:08 [Zakim]

+Alistair?; got it

15:01:24 [berrueta]

berrueta has joined #swd

15:01:28 [Zakim]

+Antoine_Isaac

15:01:37 [Zakim]

+[VrijeUni]

15:01:57 [Guus]

Guus has joined #swd

15:02:05 [TomB]

zakim, VrijeUni is Guus

15:02:05 [Zakim]

+Guus; got it

15:02:11 [Zakim]

+??P25

15:02:16 [seanb]

zakim, ??P25 is me

15:02:16 [Zakim]

+seanb; got it

15:03:25 [Guus]

zakim, who is here?

15:03:25 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, Alistair? (muted), EdSu, Quentin, Antoine_Isaac, Guus, seanb

15:03:27 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Guus, berrueta, qreul, seanb, RRSAgent, TomB, Zakim, aliman, Ralph, Antoine, edsu

15:03:38 [Zakim]

+[CTIC]

15:03:42 [berrueta]

zakim, [CTIC] is me

15:03:48 [Zakim]

+berrueta; got it

15:04:05 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

15:04:14 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ben_Adida

15:04:21 [benadida]

benadida has joined #swd

15:05:02 [Zakim]

+[LC]

15:05:24 [Ralph]

scribe: QReul

15:05:30 [Ralph]

zakim, lc is Clay

15:05:30 [Zakim]

+Clay; got it

15:05:55 [qreul]

Topic: Admin

15:06:40 [qreul]

PROPOSED to accept minutes of the last telecon: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html

15:07:03 [qreul]

Proposed resolution:ISSUE-83 => ISSUE 123

15:07:10 [Clay]

Clay has joined #swd

15:07:29 [qreul]

RESOLVED

15:08:44 [JeremyCarroll]

JeremyCarroll has joined #swd

15:08:58 [qreul]

Next telecon: 26 Aug

15:09:21 [Zakim]

+Ralph

15:09:21 [Zakim]

+ +7.944.aabb

15:09:34 [JeremyCarroll]

Zakim, aabb is me

15:09:34 [Zakim]

+JeremyCarroll; got it

15:09:51 [qreul]

Group agreed to meet next week

15:09:57 [qreul]

Topic: SKOS

15:10:15 [qreul]

2 reviews of the SKOS reference have been provided

15:10:25 [JeremyCarroll]

Zakim, mute me

15:10:28 [Zakim]

JeremyCarroll should now be muted

15:10:45 [qreul]

Sean: started to address comments made by Guus

15:10:46 [aliman]

zakim, please unmute alistair

15:10:48 [Zakim]

Alistair? should no longer be muted

15:11:01 [seanb]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/Reference/Planning

15:11:12 [Zakim]

-Ralph

15:11:18 [Zakim]

-Ralph

15:11:23 [Zakim]

+Ralph

15:11:51 [qreul]

Wiki has the text from the review and shows progress

15:12:11 [qreul]

discussion required about one or two of Margherita's comment

15:13:07 [qreul]

Guus asked to discuss section 1.5

15:13:13 [monarcho]

monarcho has joined #swd

15:13:35 [qreul]

Guus: says that the explanantion for integrity constraint is unclear

15:13:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html Ralph

15:14:06 [qreul]

Sean: often if an assumption is made and if a property doesn't have a domain and range that this can be an error

15:14:19 [qreul]

However, this is not correct

15:14:51 [qreul]

Alistair: wasn't sure how to express the idea

15:15:06 [qreul]

Guus: part can be dropped as not essential to the argument

15:15:31 [qreul]

Sean: do you propose to drop the whole pragraph?

15:16:20 [qreul]

Guus: only people knowledgeable about DL wouldn't know this is an error

15:17:00 [qreul]

Make explicit that datatype don't have to be made explicit

15:17:37 [qreul]

Sean: No objection if the comments are addressed

15:18:11 [qreul]

Guus: would like to get an email showing how the different comments have been addressed

15:18:32 [qreul]

Sean: The wiki addresses this and then will send an email version of the wiki page

15:19:25 [qreul]

Guus: the revision should be made available by next Tuesday for a decision to be made at next telecon

15:19:59 [qreul]

Guus: question about cardinality in appendix 2.2

15:20:20 [qreul]

Alistair: thought it was correct

15:20:37 [qreul]

Guus: difference between local and global constraints

15:20:55 [qreul]

is the intended semantic should always be 1?

15:21:53 [qreul]

text seem to suggest it should be precisely one label

15:23:15 [qreul]

ACTION: Sean and Alistair to propose a solution for the last call by Fri 22/08/08

15:23:43 [qreul]

s/solution/revised reference

15:24:01 [Ralph]

reference to what?

15:24:04 [Ralph]

(so we remember)

15:24:12 [qreul]

SKOS reference

15:24:24 [qreul]

ACTION: Ed to investigate what text could be added to primer re. concept co-ordination [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-swd-minutes.html#action02]

15:24:42 [edsu]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0032.html

15:24:47 [Ralph]

oh, a revised Editor's Draft -- ok, I misunderstood :)

15:24:52 [qreul]

--done

15:25:03 [qreul]

ACTION: Guus to write primer text re: broaderGeneric and equivalence w/r/t subclass [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/18-swd-minutes.html#action08]

15:25:24 [aliman]

zakim, mute alistair

15:25:24 [Zakim]

Alistair? should now be muted

15:26:57 [Ralph]

from the March 18 meeting record:

15:27:06 [Ralph]

[[

15:27:07 [Ralph]

Sean: make skos:broaderGeneric rdfs:subPropertyOf rdfs:subClassOf .

15:27:07 [Ralph]

Guus: if you look at the broader definition it's not clear

15:27:07 [Ralph]

... need more dicussion

15:27:07 [Ralph]

Alistair: if you have broaderGeneric as a subPropertyOf subClassOf

15:27:07 [Ralph]

... through broaderGeneric

15:27:09 [Ralph]

... requires more thought

15:27:11 [Ralph]

Sean: no theoretical reason for having super as transitive

15:27:13 [Ralph]

Guus: proposal was to write some primer text on it and should be fine

15:27:15 [Ralph]

]]

15:27:23 [qreul]

--dropped

15:27:32 [Zakim]

+??P8

15:27:32 [dlrubin]

dlrubin has joined #swd

15:27:41 [qreul]

Ed and Antoine said it was required anymore

15:27:46 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p8 is probably DLRubin

15:27:46 [Zakim]

+DLRubin?; got it

15:27:49 [qreul]

ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01]

15:28:11 [aliman]

continues

15:28:18 [qreul]

--continues

15:28:29 [qreul]

ACTION: Ed to write a note on SKOS-XL in the Primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action10]

15:28:36 [qreul]

--done

15:28:48 [qreul]

Antoine wrote the proposal

15:29:25 [GuusS]

GuusS has joined #swd

15:29:33 [edsu]

Antoine: thanks for picking that skos-xl primer stuff up

15:29:43 [qreul]

-- primer status

15:29:57 [qreul]

Antoine has published on the wikki the latest editor's draft

15:30:06 [qreul]

it could be considered for publication

15:30:16 [qreul]

except that 2 items have still to be addressed

15:30:30 [qreul]

1. Tom has some editorial comments (minor)

15:30:48 [qreul]

2. Comment made by Alistair about example to be modified

15:31:00 [qreul]

Ed is currently addressing this problem now

15:31:22 [aliman]

ed sounds great

15:31:28 [qreul]

Ed: the example is going to be adapted to be more real

15:32:00 [aliman]

zakim, unmute me

15:32:00 [Zakim]

sorry, aliman, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

15:32:22 [aliman]

/me zakim, unmute alistair

15:32:29 [qreul]

3. Related to comment on reference wrt to provenance and name graph

15:32:53 [qreul]

The problem is caused by the Primer referring to the reference

15:33:07 [qreul]

Alistair: no current plans

15:33:23 [qreul]

Guus: propose to re-use text from previous reference

15:33:45 [qreul]

Antoine: the section was empty, and not really sure how to solve it

15:33:57 [qreul]

This is wrt section 2.5 and 3.1

15:34:23 [seanb]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SKOSPrimer-080819.html

15:34:48 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0041.html "new editor's draft of the SKOS Primer" [Antoine 2008-08-19]

15:35:24 [qreul]

Antoine: propose solution to remove reference to these section

15:35:50 [qreul]

Alistait: could refer to Web Conference paper on name graph

15:36:24 [qreul]

\s/these section/these section in the primer

15:36:52 [qreul]

Ralph: to refer to this work could be confusing to SKOS readers

15:37:22 [qreul]

Sean: would be stranged to say there isn't any mechanism to do this

15:37:51 [qreul]

Ralph: it's currently true, unless an example is created

15:38:06 [Ralph]

s/example/example showing SPARQL usage/

15:38:19 [qreul]

Alistair: SKOS Reference doesn't cover this issue

15:38:41 [Ralph]

s/this work/this work in progress on named graphs/

15:41:54 [qreul]

ACTION: Ralph and Guus to review the Primer Editor's Draft

15:42:00 [qreul]

Topic: RDFa

15:43:03 [qreul]

Diego: The implementation report has been submitted

15:43:16 [qreul]

Does this need to be formally reviewed?

15:43:38 [berrueta]

s/Diego:/Ben:

15:43:41 [qreul]

The syntax draft should also be reviewed

15:44:17 [qreul]

Guues: thought the taskforce wanted to have a review of the implementation report

15:44:25 [Ralph]

we're not proposing to publish the Implementation Report as a Group Note, are we?

15:44:38 [Ralph]

s/Does this/Ralph: Does thi/

15:44:45 [qreul]

Ben: Ask the reviewer (Ed and Diego) to check wether changes are ok

15:44:49 [Ralph]

s/Does thi/Does/this

15:44:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html Ralph

15:45:18 [qreul]

ACTION: Ed and Diego to review the latest document

15:45:50 [qreul]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/implementation-report/

15:46:10 [edsu]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0044.html

15:46:18 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0044.html "RDFa Implementation Report and Reviewed Editors' Draft" [Ben 2008-08-19]

15:46:19 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

15:47:00 [qreul]

Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]

15:47:03 [qreul]

--done

15:47:20 [edsu]

s/latest document/latest RDFa Syntax Editor's Draft/

15:47:50 [qreul]

ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]

15:47:53 [qreul]

--done

15:47:54 [Ralph]

Ralph: what about CURIE Last Call draft review?

15:47:57 [GuusS]

zakim, who is here?

15:47:57 [Zakim]

On the phone I see TomB, alistair (muted), EdSu, Quentin, Antoine_Isaac, Guus, seanb, berrueta, Clay, JeremyCarroll (muted), Ralph, DLRubin?

15:47:59 [Zakim]

On IRC I see GuusS, dlrubin, monarcho, JeremyCarroll, berrueta, qreul, seanb, RRSAgent, TomB, Zakim, aliman, Ralph, Antoine, edsu

15:48:01 [Ralph]

Guus: take that under other business

15:48:16 [qreul]

Topic: Recipes

15:48:19 [Ralph]

[I'd have liked to take that up before Ben left, but ok]

15:48:35 [qreul]

Guus: Is anything blocking publication?

15:48:43 [qreul]

ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]

15:48:47 [qreul]

--continues

15:48:55 [qreul]

ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03]

15:48:58 [qreul]

--continues

15:49:08 [qreul]

Topic: AOB

15:49:18 [qreul]

a. Minimum RDFa metadata set for WG deliverables

15:50:18 [qreul]

I seem to have lost the line

15:50:30 [Ralph]

scribenick: ralph

15:50:32 [Zakim]

-Quentin

15:50:38 [Ralph]

Diego: I changed the formatting as Ralph requested

15:50:44 [Ralph]

... I'd like to add some examples

15:51:15 [Zakim]

+JeffP

15:51:21 [Ralph]

... regarding GRDDL, I added a section on how to use GRDDL

15:51:34 [Ralph]

... I'd like to discuss this section -- whether it's relevant or not

15:51:58 [Ralph]

zakim, jeffP is Quentin

15:51:59 [Zakim]

+Quentin; got it

15:52:07 [Ralph]

scribenick: qreul

15:52:17 [berrueta]

--> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/AddingRDFaToTR?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=draft.html

15:53:04 [qreul]

Section "How to use GRDDL?" needs to have some such material to be included

15:53:27 [qreul]

... the current markup could be confusing however

15:53:43 [qreul]

... i.e. TR markup with RDFa

15:54:12 [qreul]

Diego: changed the name of the document wrt the document name

15:54:51 [qreul]

No problem with the title as mainly using RDFa

15:55:13 [aliman]

/msg tomb hope you feel better soon

15:55:24 [qreul]

Sean: Problem with HTML tag in the document

15:55:47 [qreul]

Diego: Content negociation could be the problem

15:56:07 [qreul]

Sean: though it was caused with DTD

15:56:44 [Ralph]

Ralph: I have no objection to the change in title from "RDFa" to "metadata", but the justification is NOT that we're using more than RDFa

15:56:48 [qreul]

Diego: problem has not been evaluated as problem with W3C markup validator

15:57:24 [qreul]

ACTION: Diego to put the Wiki page on RDFa metadata in a Note form [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action11]

15:57:28 [qreul]

--continues

15:57:35 [qreul]

b. Review CURIE Syntax 1.0 by Sep 5

15:57:42 [qreul]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Aug/0029.html

15:57:48 [Ralph]

[I'd say that Diego's action is done :) and now we're reviewing it ]

15:58:10 [qreul]

http://www.w3.org/TR/curie/

15:58:37 [qreul]

Revision of the RDFa syntax addressing problem in Curie

15:59:30 [JeremyCarroll]

q+

15:59:43 [qreul]

This group through the RDFa are co-author of the Curie syntax and as such we were asked to review the document

15:59:45 [JeremyCarroll]

Zakim, unmute me

15:59:45 [Zakim]

JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

16:00:16 [qreul]

Jeremy: What if curie spec are rejected but NOT RDFa?

16:00:33 [qreul]

No answer can be made @ the current time

16:00:59 [qreul]

Discussion to be postponed to next week

16:01:20 [qreul]

ACTION: Jeremy to review Curie syntax doc by Sep 05

16:01:22 [Ralph]

s/No answer/Ralph: No answer

16:01:34 [Zakim]

-Clay

16:01:36 [Zakim]

-DLRubin?

16:01:36 [Zakim]

-JeremyCarroll

16:01:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html Ralph

16:01:36 [dlrubin]

dlrubin has left #swd

16:01:37 [Zakim]

-EdSu

16:01:40 [Zakim]

-berrueta

16:01:44 [Zakim]

-TomB

16:01:54 [Zakim]

-Quentin

16:01:54 [Zakim]

-Antoine_Isaac

16:01:55 [Zakim]

-seanb

16:02:05 [Zakim]

-alistair

16:02:07 [Zakim]

-Guus

16:02:15 [Zakim]

-Ralph

16:02:16 [Zakim]

SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended

16:02:17 [Zakim]

Attendees were TomB, Ralph, EdSu, +22427aaaa, Quentin, Alistair?, Antoine_Isaac, Guus, seanb, berrueta, Ben_Adida, Clay, +7.944.aabb, JeremyCarroll, alistair, DLRubin?

16:02:42 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-minutes.html Ralph

16:02:47 [qreul]

That would be great

16:02:52 [qreul]

thanks very much

16:02:54 [Ralph]

:) ok

16:02:57 [Ralph]

thanks for scribing!

16:03:01 [Ralph]

zakim, bye

16:03:02 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #swd

16:03:03 [qreul]

no prolem

16:03:28 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-actions.rdf :

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Sean and Alistair to propose a solution for the last call by Fri 22/08/08 [1]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-23-15

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ed to investigate what text could be added to primer re. concept co-ordination [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-swd-minutes.html#action02] [2]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-24-24

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Guus to write primer text re: broaderGeneric and equivalence w/r/t subclass [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/18-swd-minutes.html#action08] [3]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-25-03

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Alistair to update the history page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html#action01] [4]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-27-49

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ed to write a note on SKOS-XL in the Primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action10] [5]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-28-29

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph and Guus to review the Primer Editor's Draft [6]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-41-54

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ed and Diego to review the latest document [7]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-45-18

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [8]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-47-50

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [9]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-48-43

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03] [10]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-48-55

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Diego to put the Wiki page on RDFa metadata in a Note form [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-swd-minutes.html#action11] [11]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T15-57-24

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeremy to review Curie syntax doc by Sep 05 [12]

16:03:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-swd-irc#T16-01-20