14:38:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #backplane
14:38:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-backplane-irc
14:38:49 <Charlie> rrsagent, make log public
14:39:25 <Charlie> Meeting: Backplane XG Teleconference
14:39:32 <Charlie> Chair: Charlie Wiecha
14:39:47 <Charlie> Regrets: Steven
14:40:12 <Charlie> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Aug/0000.html
14:52:44 <oeddie> oeddie has joined #backplane
14:53:05 <oeddie> oh, it's just you, me and the bots
14:54:37 <oeddie> chair: Charles F Wiecha
14:54:45 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-backplane-minutes.html oeddie
14:57:58 <rahul> rahul has joined #backplane
14:58:54 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has now started
14:59:02 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:59:29 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:59:38 <Charlie> zakim, [IBM] is Charlie
14:59:38 <Zakim> +Charlie; got it
14:59:51 <oeddie> oeddie has joined #backplane
15:00:05 <oeddie> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
15:00:17 <oeddie> ScribeNick+ oeddie
15:01:56 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/wiki/User_talk:GJR
15:01:56 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:01:57 <jackjansen> jackjansen has joined #backplane
15:03:45 <Kevin> Kevin has joined #backplane
15:06:01 <Zakim> + +31.20.616.aaaa
15:12:11 <jackjansen> What's the code, again?
15:12:19 <Charlie> RWAB
15:12:45 <jackjansen> No:-) the mute code...
15:12:50 <Charlie> ah, sorry
15:14:49 <oeddie> 61# to mute yourself
15:14:54 <oeddie> 60# to unmute
15:15:06 <oeddie> 41# to raise your hand (puts you in queue)
15:15:28 <oeddie> 40# to lower your hand (remove you from the queue
15:15:57 <oeddie> TOPIC: Beginnings & Agenda Review
15:16:01 <jackjansen> thanks
15:16:05 <oeddie> CW: what should we do today?
15:16:15 <oeddie> CW: update on data model and UI control stuff?
15:16:36 <oeddie> Kevin: what is quorum criteria for RWAB XG
15:17:08 <oeddie> CW: don't want anyone to fall behind
15:17:23 <oeddie> CW: extensions to data model for 15 minutes
15:17:29 <oeddie> CW: dojo status report
15:17:46 <oeddie> TOPIC: Extensions to Data Model
15:17:55 <Charlie> www.webdialogs.com/join
15:17:56 <oeddie> http://www.webdialogs.com/join
15:18:04 <Charlie> meeting code is 801862
15:18:35 <oeddie> CW: brainstorm at higher level
15:18:50 <oeddie> CW: review of past work
15:19:03 <oeddie> CW: next week, jack could you present on your model again?
15:19:10 <jackjansen> ok.
15:19:42 <oeddie> CW: refactoring data model and advancing pieces of XForms out of forms-specificity, but generic component for RWAB; ability to inject into dojo, AJAX, and other libraries
15:20:09 <oeddie> CW: Thomas showed us the first demo of that using data models in dojo; brainstormed: library agnostic data model
15:20:24 <oeddie> CW: (shares screen with participants)
15:21:18 <oeddie> CW: Thomas' work: uses xforms-ubiquity data  model to back both a "data provider object" ("data source" in YUI)
15:21:29 <oeddie> CW: demos YUI widget
15:22:36 <oeddie> CW: sends keywords through YUI data object into XForms as side-effect triggering submit; triggering xforms control, queries XML data, same abstraction
15:23:23 <oeddie> CW: not forcing authors or devs to swallow XForms whole, but to reuse slash leverage XForms mechanics and architecture
15:23:32 <oeddie> CW: where to go next - what use cases to explore
15:24:05 <oeddie> CW: in current implementation, have 1 data source object cross product of dojo and YUI interfaces
15:24:36 <oeddie> CW: refractor from those objects - can hand you a data object or XML instance and plug into both dojo and YUI - 
15:25:37 <oeddie> CW: use case - someone taking mashup from dojo framework and YUI framework; if want to add widgets built from diff script library, need to be able to communicate bilaterally; give me a reference to XForms instance - avoid having to tailor for specific framework
15:26:08 <Charlie> Thomas Ling
15:26:12 <Charlie> not yet on IRC, sorry
15:26:15 <Charlie> he's in our team at IBM
15:26:43 <oeddie> ??: Ajax API and dojo API have different set; pure javascript - doesn't depend on a single framework; works on both libraries
15:26:52 <oeddie> s/??:/TL:
15:27:38 <oeddie> TL: data binder could form wider requirements for API - if have to add API for each component of toolkit, ability to point to data object important
15:28:20 <oeddie> CW: both dojo and YUI - IDL or interface for data model; more than XForms - need to consider methods needed to support; can then plug into dojo or YUI
15:28:49 <jackjansen> question: is Javascript always master, or is there a way to trigger javascript execution when data model changes (e.g. through xforms or smil)?
15:29:18 <oeddie> TL: use API for data source; standard way of how dojo or YUI implement data source; if person has own component should be able to use common API
15:30:15 <oeddie> CW: pulling data from model side; something causes model to change, how does trickle back
15:30:15 <jackjansen> oeddie, ok thanks
15:30:46 <Kevin> bye, talk to you next week 
15:30:56 <Kevin> Kevin has left #backplane
15:30:58 <oeddie> TL: dojo already does that; lets you specify when data model is changed or done with update; could implement own javascript API even if your widget doesn't support it, can listen for it and call API
15:31:52 <oeddie> TL: YUI has properties - similar to CORBA subset; allows formatting of HTML; HTML data model query using XPath, or using XPath to commuicate model for delivery as HTML
15:32:02 <Zakim> -[IBM]
15:32:07 <oeddie> CW: triggering event notification into SMIL engine
15:32:45 <oeddie> JJ: right; interested in apps where time is main control channel; using snippets of javascript to describe things in declarative way; wouuld like whole model to be declarative
15:33:09 <oeddie> CW: using XForms-like binding to make look like XForm control or via underlying AJAX framework 
15:33:23 <oeddie> CW: first more generic
15:33:55 <oeddie> JJ: way to trigger actions in SMIL, if SMIL model isn't sufficient and have to use script, has to trigger model changes
15:34:05 <oeddie> CW: should pull that into use cases
15:34:26 <oeddie> CW: access controls and custom action - different action bindings 
15:34:58 <oeddie> CW: sample app simple from UI point of view
15:35:22 <oeddie> CW: new use case from JJ: controlling custom events and push-back to data model
15:35:45 <oeddie> CW: concentrate on data model, rather than wrapper - plug data model API into wrapper
15:36:10 <oeddie> TOPIC: TPAC 2009
15:36:54 <oeddie> CW: Debbie Dahl asked for joint meeting; widgets not always visual - fragment of VoiceXML or SMIL shows linearization to different modalities
15:37:14 <oeddie> CW: should meet with MMI and Voice at same time
15:37:43 <oeddie> CW: lot of stuff of interest in web-applications 
15:38:09 <oeddie> CW: hour with web-apps at tech plenary
15:40:00 <oeddie> CW: meeting with XHTML2 group?
15:40:13 <oeddie> GJR: separate conversation with XHTML2 would be beneficial
15:40:17 <oeddie> CW: will talk with StevenP
15:42:54 <oeddie> CW: MMI, XForms and XHTML2 - will check with kevin about CDF
15:43:00 <oeddie> CW: what about WAI?
15:43:58 <oeddie> GJR: lunch and an hour or 2 afterwards: telling each other what each is doing and syncronizing approaches
15:44:11 <oeddie> CW: who to contact
15:44:21 <jackjansen> q+ to ask which day(s) do we aim for? Can't find us in schedule...
15:44:37 <oeddie> GJR: Al Gilman and michael cooper (cooper@w3.org) and CC to wai-liaison@w3.org
15:44:45 <oeddie> GJR: like to sync demos - 
15:44:51 <oeddie> JJ: which days are we aiming for?
15:45:32 <oeddie> CW: don't have separate meeting time; membership of XG in multiple groups; work on building demos to take into discussions with other groups 
15:45:49 <oeddie> JJ: may not make it at all - if make it, won't be there for whole five days
15:46:08 <oeddie> CW: meet with whom and who will attend will dictate with whom we speak
15:47:16 <jackjansen> bye!
15:47:18 <oeddie> CW: what are themes/talking points in meetings with working groups; looking at app point of view in open source - might want to integrate accessibilty in talks with other group
15:47:34 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:47:35 <Zakim> - +31.20.616.aaaa
15:47:35 <Zakim> -Charlie
15:47:37 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()11:00AM has ended
15:47:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Charlie, [IBM], +31.20.616.aaaa
15:47:40 <oeddie> ADJOURN
15:47:45 <rahul> rahul has left #backplane
15:47:57 <oeddie> present+ Kevin
15:48:09 <Charlie> Charlie has left #backplane
15:49:00 <oeddie> present+ Thomas Ling
15:49:05 <oeddie> present- IBM
15:49:20 <oeddie> present+ Jack Jansen
15:49:30 <oeddie> present- aaaa
15:49:43 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes
15:49:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-backplane-minutes.html oeddie
15:52:14 <oeddie> present- Jack, Jansen, Ling, Thomas, [IBM]
15:52:14 <oeddie> present+ Jack_Jansen, Thomas_Ling
15:52:19 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes
15:52:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-backplane-minutes.html oeddie
15:53:58 <oeddie> present+ Rahul
15:54:04 <oeddie> zakim, please part
15:54:04 <Zakim> Zakim has left #backplane
15:54:16 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes
15:54:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-backplane-minutes.html oeddie
15:54:43 <oeddie> present- [+31.20.616.aaaa]
15:54:47 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes
15:54:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-backplane-minutes.html oeddie
16:05:13 <oeddie> rrsagent, please part
16:05:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items