17:57:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:57:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-irc
17:58:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
17:58:18 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
17:58:20 <oedipus> meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Weekly Call
17:58:27 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
17:58:31 <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
17:58:54 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0052.html
17:59:14 <oedipus> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:59:37 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
17:59:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-minutes.html oedipus
17:59:39 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
18:00:29 <jeanne> zakim, code?
18:00:29 <Zakim> sorry, jeanne, I don't know what conference this is
18:00:37 <Judy> Judy has joined #ua
18:00:45 <jeanne> zakim, this will be WAI_UA
18:00:45 <Zakim> ok, jeanne, I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM already started
18:00:51 <Zakim> - +1.512.233.aaaa
18:00:51 <jeanne> zakim, code?
18:00:52 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
18:00:52 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.512.233.aaaa
18:00:54 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
18:00:55 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started
18:02:15 <oedipus> chair: Judy_Brewer
18:02:22 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
18:02:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-minutes.html oedipus
18:02:54 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
18:02:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
18:02:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see Judy, jeanne, Jan, Zakim, RRSAgent, sharper, oedipus
18:03:25 <oedipus> chair+ Jim_Allan
18:03:29 <oedipus> rrsagent, make  minutes
18:03:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-minutes.html oedipus
18:03:34 <Judy> zakim, code?
18:03:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Judy
18:04:13 <oedipus> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:04:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
18:04:32 <oedipus> zakim, please part
18:04:32 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:04:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
18:04:45 <oedipus> rrsagent, make  minutes
18:04:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-minutes.html oedipus
18:06:18 <oedipus> zakim, who is here
18:06:18 <Zakim> oedipus, you need to end that query with '?'
18:06:21 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
18:06:21 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I don't know what conference this is
18:06:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see Judy, jeanne, Jan, RRSAgent, sharper, oedipus
18:06:31 <oedipus> zakim, who is on phone?
18:06:31 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, oedipus.
18:06:48 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
18:06:48 <Zakim> sorry, Judy, I don't know what conference this is
18:06:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see Judy, jeanne, Jan, RRSAgent, sharper, oedipus
18:07:10 <jeanne> zakim, this is WAI_UA
18:07:10 <Zakim> ok, jeanne; that matches WAI_UAWG()2:00PM
18:07:21 <jeanne> zakim, who's here?
18:07:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
18:07:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see Judy, jeanne, Jan, RRSAgent, sharper, oedipus
18:07:43 <oedipus> zakim, aaaa is Jim_Allan
18:07:43 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
18:08:47 <oedipus> TOPIC: Regrets, agenda requests, comments?  
18:08:58 <KFord> KFord has joined #ua
18:09:01 <oedipus> JA: no regrets logged
18:09:08 <oedipus> JA: additional agenda requests?
18:09:23 <oedipus> JB: recent changes in AU stuff - 
18:09:40 <oedipus> agenda+ AU Update
18:10:05 <oedipus> TOPIC: 2. Focused Keyboard discussion
18:10:11 <oedipus> for reference: http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm 
18:10:30 <oedipus> JA: level A items 4 and 5, level AA item 1
18:10:56 <oedipus> JA: did 1 to 3 last week
18:11:07 <oedipus> JA: number 4  - direct keyboard command (Level A)
18:11:41 <oedipus> JA: all items on list are used elsewhere in UAAG2 - "allow user to configure this..." this should be available..." -- 4 pins it down as a requirement
18:12:10 <oedipus> "Direct keyboard commands can be used to activate the following important functions (list) Level A 
18:12:10 <oedipus> move content focus to the next/previous enabled element in document order 
18:12:10 <oedipus> activate the link designated by the content focus 
18:12:10 <oedipus> open search function, search again 
18:12:10 <oedipus> increase/decrease the scale of rendered text 
18:12:11 <oedipus> increase/decrease global volume 
18:12:13 <oedipus> stop/pause/resume and navigate efficiently audio and animations,including video and animated images 
18:12:15 <oedipus> next/previous history state (i.e., forward/back) 
18:12:17 <oedipus> enter a URI for a new resource 
18:12:19 <oedipus> add a URI to favorites (i.e., bookmarked resources) 
18:12:21 <oedipus> view favorites 
18:12:23 <oedipus> reload a resource 
18:12:25 <oedipus> interrupt a request to load or reload a resource 
18:12:27 <oedipus> navigate forward and backward through rendered content by approximately the height of the viewport 
18:12:30 <oedipus> (n) for user agents that render content in lines of (at least) text: move the point of regard to the next and previous line 
18:12:32 <oedipus> "
18:12:59 <oedipus> KF: 2 comments: 1) needs to be a comma clause saying what user agent supports - if don't have 1 of these features? (2) is it possible in operating environment
18:13:29 <oedipus> KF: good list, but what happens if new features arise - list is static, world is not
18:13:31 <oedipus> JB: yes
18:14:25 <oedipus> KF: example - almost every UA has a search box; could be other features - function of UA or OS?
18:14:40 <oedipus> KF: need to differentiate between UA and OS
18:14:52 <oedipus> KF: recommendation: remove global volume item from list
18:15:32 <oedipus> SH: reword slightly - "important functions, including..." - make non-exclusive list
18:15:43 <oedipus> KF: how is list derived and was it discussed?
18:16:43 <oedipus> JA: yes - particular one for adjusting global volume - UAAG2 GL 3.8 from old UAAG1 1.7 1.8 - audio browser-centric; voice output/self-voicing app needs user control from within app
18:17:11 <oedipus> JA: function of user agent and platform - if not self-voicing, don't need to cover global volume adjustment
18:17:21 <oedipus> JS: application bar
18:17:32 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #ua
18:17:48 <oedipus> AC: embedded elements with volume control (video embedded in web page with widget) - would that widget's volume control need to be adjustable
18:18:22 <oedipus> JA: player another UA, so flash player needs to put in adjustable volume; parent UA probably unaware of embedded player functions
18:18:38 <oedipus> KF: global volume or application volume - how deeply do we want to dig in this list?
18:19:25 <oedipus> JB: appreciate your broaching this, kelly; one possibility is to pick 2 to discuss can then try to extrapolate from concerns arising out of 2 we discuss
18:19:29 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has been moved to &elsewhere by Ralph
18:20:32 <oedipus> JB: one thing running through my head is question of: should this list be in some other document that is not normative and static; might be far worse - potentially asking people to conform or build software that may not be stable; dev's perspective, that is worse, but presents dilemma either way; think haven't found right approach for particular needs
18:22:26 <oedipus> JA: might be overkill; original were somewhere else in guidelines; provide user ability to do x, y, and z; this particular one says functions addressed elsewhere in document, but have to provide direct keyboard command for function; that was original intent for these 14 items; all have specific guideline that refers to specific function; listed all in one place to say not enough to provide function but must provide keyboard command
18:22:40 <oedipus> JA: could add keyboard requirements to the 14 individual GLs
18:23:01 <oedipus> JB: could say "for every thing at such-and-such a level" - want to genericize
18:23:51 <oedipus> SH: are we saying that these things should be included and should have keyboard commands or if functionality in UA, use theese keyboard commands
18:24:19 <oedipus> JR: are these all things UA has to have with keyboard function, or have to have keyboard support if included and think is second
18:24:23 <oedipus> JA: agree with that
18:24:52 <oedipus> SH: integrate into other checkpoints; might be good things to offer explicitly when functionality defined
18:24:59 <Jan> JR: AU: If the authoring tool includes any of the following functions, authors can enable key-plus-modifier-key (or single-key) access to them
18:25:57 <oedipus> q+ to ask if can have meta-guideline "all functionalities provided by a User Agent must enable key-plus-modifier-key or single key access to them
18:26:45 <oedipus> JB: i don't get a lot from having specific list of items - kind of direct keyboard access that i've been trying to articulate in document is more general principles
18:26:49 <oedipus> q?
18:27:19 <oedipus> JB: concern: list might include a lot but may also leave out a lot - want to genericize - anything that is active command needs direct keyboard support
18:27:35 <oedipus> JB: list very fixed in time and seems different from all other GLs
18:28:14 <oedipus> JA: dilemma - UAAG1 and UAAG2 have 13 separate GLs to say "have to offer x functionality" and this one says this functionality has to have keyboard command
18:29:05 <oedipus> AC: equal a11y problem - browser features that are "needed" today aren't on list (plug ins or extensions)
18:29:25 <oedipus> JR: did quick search - could move somewhere else
18:29:28 <oedipus> ack me
18:29:28 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask if can have meta-guideline "all functionalities provided by a User Agent must enable key-plus-modifier-key or single key access to them
18:29:51 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has been moved to &elsewhere by Ralph
18:30:02 <oedipus> AC: danger! danger!
18:31:33 <oedipus> AC: not sure that "everything" is true - things that can be gotten to by going through menu (especially if not used often) - functions used every day need keyboard
18:32:43 <oedipus> GJR: menus may be too onerus, a lot of chrome available by default
18:32:58 <oedipus> JR: alot that can't be done by direct key
18:33:09 <oedipus> JB: what is criteria for what is most important?
18:34:13 <oedipus> KF: if have top-level features try to have direct hotkey access to features; other dev goal is "if you can do with mouse wiht one click, should be able to do at most with 5 keystrokes"
18:34:27 <oedipus> KF: end goal is all top-level stuff key-bound
18:35:26 <oedipus> JA: UAAG1 a lot of checkpoints about changing font size, searching within page, moving focus backwards and forwards; essential features the group thought in 1998-2002 were important - genesis of 13 GL checkpoints; ported to this list because already levelA or level AA
18:35:45 <oedipus> JA: conformance claim can say "our UA doesn't do search" - so don't conform to that GL, but that is origin of list
18:36:43 <oedipus> KF: example: reading this GL what was meant in 1998 was search web content (find on page/document); today, have search box that launches web search automatically - should that have direct hot key access
18:37:10 <oedipus> KF: not just the naming of what you want, new feature added to UA now considered a must have
18:37:47 <oedipus> JB: Jan tying to reqs i've been raising; req i've been raising was less that a specific keyboard command has to be available for everything, but findability  is a parmount concern
18:38:28 <Ralph> Ralph has left #ua
18:38:29 <oedipus> JB: more classic - ought to be direct keyboard way to do everything, but agree with AC's point about not commonly  used features
18:38:59 <oedipus> JB: why this list?  wouldn't stand up as set of requirements - is there a principle that separates them from other things
18:39:15 <oedipus> JA: have GLs that say "you must do this"; 
18:39:25 <jeanne> present + Jim, Judy, Jan, Jeanne, Alan, Simon, Kelly, Gregory
18:39:33 <oedipus> JB: can we then say "for anything at Level A, make sure a direct keyboard command for that
18:39:49 <oedipus> JR: used to be the case, but not requirements in document for "favorites/bookmarks"
18:39:55 <jeanne> present+ Jim, Judy, Jan, Jeanne, Alan, Simon, Kelly, Gregory
18:40:04 <oedipus> JA: to address Judy's comment, sounds fuzzy - more work for developer
18:40:46 <oedipus> JB: could either enumerate in TECHS doc, or list in UAAG2 itself, but need to ensure list is updated; 
18:41:26 <oedipus> JB: concern about being static, but if principle is "these are things that are level A" if do 2.1 and need to drop and add, can just change one place in document
18:41:40 <oedipus> q-
18:42:24 <oedipus> JA: not going to be picked up by developers
18:42:42 <oedipus> q?
18:43:21 <oedipus> JB: suggest we move on from this fairly soon
18:44:30 <oedipus> KF: in addition to list, GLs implicit - design principles wouldn't be encouraged by this; point to encourage/require "sufficient" keyboard use (as few keystrokes as possible); not setting parameters for number of key strokes -- very testable for conformance
18:44:46 <oedipus> KF: or do we just say "you should go in this direction" and leave to notes and techniques
18:44:57 <oedipus> KF: if Level A feature or function needs single hot key
18:45:44 <oedipus> AC: support what Kelly said; don't want to go through P1 things; usability of keyboard; moving to address bar not P1, but needs useable keyboard shortcut; also agree that need principle as to whay here
18:45:51 <oedipus> s/AC: support/JR: support
18:46:16 <oedipus> AC: so important for keyboard access can't give devs an out on keyboard support; big difference between barely useable, and usable
18:46:58 <oedipus> JB: for higher priority functions identified as A, should apply principle of "efficient keyboard support" defining number of acceptable keystrokes
18:47:47 <oedipus> JR: proposal is: what is used on daily basis - enter URI in address bar - basic, but not P1/Level A requirement, just feature of tool; example of keyboard hotkey that isn't a P1
18:48:10 <oedipus> JA: think should take to list - 3 people sub-committee to thrash out on list?
18:48:23 <oedipus> JB: may want competing versions
18:48:36 <oedipus> JB: might be critical mass that want to ditch list of specific commands
18:48:43 <oedipus> JB: who would like to ditch list
18:48:45 <oedipus> KF: yes
18:48:50 <oedipus> JR: yes
18:48:53 <oedipus> JB: yes
18:48:56 <oedipus> SH: yes
18:49:06 <oedipus> AC: keep list
18:49:14 <oedipus> GJR: half-and-half
18:49:32 <oedipus> JB: Alan will be a quality control to ensure we can win him over
18:49:54 <oedipus> JA: several points: 1) efficient keyboard use - x number of keystrokes
18:50:03 <oedipus> JA: 2) need keystrokes for all Level A
18:50:24 <oedipus> JA: 3) need to identify key features not explicitly addressed as keyboard accessible
18:50:42 <oedipus> JA: still need critical mass of people - volunteers for changing list?
18:50:50 <oedipus> zakim, choose a victim
18:50:50 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I don't know what conference this is
18:51:00 <oedipus> JR: would like to hear from Kelly
18:51:04 <oedipus> KF: accept
18:51:33 <oedipus> SH: would like to help, but on vacation
18:51:41 <oedipus> JB: group will go ahead and then review
18:51:50 <oedipus> JR: will work with Kelly on this
18:51:54 <oedipus> AC: should sit in on this
18:52:03 <oedipus> JB: could do on email list or have 3-way call
18:52:08 <jeanne> s/SH: would / JS: would 
18:52:11 <oedipus> AC: on holiday for next 2 weeks
18:52:25 <oedipus> KF: didn't do other action item (not complete, anyway)
18:52:48 <oedipus> KF: send something to list, members can kick around, can set up a conference call via MS facilities
18:52:56 <oedipus> JB: just need dedicated effort
18:53:53 <oedipus> ACTION: Kelly, Jan, and Jim - develop replacement for list of specific commands for WG review
18:54:48 <oedipus> JA: recognized content (accesskey) unrecognized content (scripting) - "User has the option to configure the keyboard processing order (UI, extensions, recognized content (Access key, AT), unrecognized content) Level A"
18:55:03 <oedipus> JB: nested set of parentheticals that makes hard to parse
18:55:07 <oedipus> JA: opinions?
18:55:26 <oedipus> JA: user defines processing order
18:55:42 <oedipus> JB: is level A?
18:55:44 <oedipus> JA: yes
18:55:51 <oedipus> JB: thought proposing change?
18:55:58 <oedipus> JA: wanted thoughts before proposals
18:56:08 <oedipus> JA: did not exist in UAAG 1.0
18:56:23 <oedipus> GJR: supports the principle at Level A
18:56:44 <oedipus> KF: oppose at level A - level A should be inform user so knows what is happening; challange is technically, is hard to do
18:57:04 <oedipus> JA: current operation is the reverse: UA applies scripts, then accesskeys, then UI
18:57:17 <oedipus> KF: depends - something we struggle with alot
18:57:30 <oedipus> KF: in favor of concept, but not in favor of it as Level A
18:57:52 <oedipus> JR: second kelly on this; pretty intrusive thing - accessibility implications on both sides
18:57:59 <oedipus> JB: what is use case for not doing this?
18:58:31 <oedipus> JR: depends on how you perceive UA - UA operating content, or accessing GMail which happens to be running in a UA - do you want GMail over IE?
18:58:43 <oedipus> KF: what we are asking is "let user decide"
18:59:08 <oedipus> KF: 2 concerns: 1) usability perspective: most users just want to press a key and have an action executed
18:59:16 <oedipus> JB: understood
18:59:27 <oedipus> KF: mechanism, though is important
18:59:49 <oedipus> JA: key thing from Kelly and Jan is "user presses key and wants right thing to happen"
19:00:20 <oedipus> JA: originally came up with this to fit accesskey - what does user want to happen?  
19:00:27 <oedipus> JA: trade-offs
19:00:51 <oedipus> KF: right thing will happen as best as possible, or user has way to get out of it; 
19:01:23 <oedipus> KF: accesskey to document first - other ways to get to UI commands
19:02:23 <oedipus> GJR: sequential keying (alt then press key) and simultaneous keying (alt plus key)
19:02:45 <Judy> zakim, who's making noise?
19:02:45 <Zakim> sorry, Judy, I don't know what conference this is
19:02:57 <jeanne> zakim, this is WAI_UA
19:02:57 <Zakim> ok, jeanne; that matches WAI_UAWG()2:00PM
19:03:06 <jeanne> zakim, who's making noise?
19:03:18 <Zakim> jeanne, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P2 (59%), ??P5 (11%), ??P10 (49%)
19:03:33 <jeanne> zakim, who's here?
19:03:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
19:03:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see KFord, Zakim, Judy, jeanne, Jan, RRSAgent, sharper, oedipus
19:04:05 <oedipus> q+ to say that ARIA dropped attribute "templateid" would be a solution for this content verus UI cascade
19:05:35 <oedipus> ack me
19:05:35 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say that ARIA dropped attribute "templateid" would be a solution for this content verus UI cascade
19:05:37 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008JulSep/0017.html
19:06:45 <Alan> Alan has joined #ua
19:07:13 <oedipus> KF: somewhat familiar with templateid, but has limitations
19:07:29 <oedipus> GJR: some small engineering problems that would need to be solved
19:07:54 <oedipus> JA: proposal to remove configure and state "UA needs to document processing order, so user knows what to expect"
19:08:04 <oedipus> KF: no, just drop to level 2 (AA)
19:08:14 <oedipus> JR: that's my thought too - drop to level 2
19:09:17 <oedipus> JB: concern: if this is something that as currently worded would be show-stopper for some implementors, and change to double A, then we are saying we are ok without working out the conflict, need and feasibility; have problem with not being able to aim for double A
19:09:32 <oedipus> JB: rather better define user need and developer feasability
19:09:41 <oedipus> JB: no strong case for this to be level A
19:09:50 <oedipus> GJR: thinks this is a Level A
19:10:33 <oedipus> JB: may need to sort issues out before assigning a level to it
19:11:50 <oedipus> JA: additionally, this proposal came from user agent dev, commenting that current UA serves strict first - hit keystroke, trapped by script but UA has no idea key trapped until script passes on; dev said should be other way around UA handle, if can't do hand down to script - just one developer's perception
19:12:21 <oedipus> KF: can't just focus on script - widgets, embedded objects all can interfere
19:12:42 <oedipus> KF: can't agree with making Level A without more consultation with MS developers
19:12:48 <oedipus> JB: may not have right wording yet
19:13:00 <oedipus> JA: that's what i hear - configure option
19:13:26 <oedipus> KF: today, based on what we do and is technically possible, user has a work-around - turn off scripting
19:13:37 <oedipus> GJR: that is FAR too draconian (turning off scripts)
19:13:56 <oedipus> JA: don't have depth to investigate - perhaps should throw to PF
19:14:10 <oedipus> AC: as user don't want to have to turn off scripts to perform normal functions on a page
19:14:22 <oedipus> KF: dealt with this a lot - 
19:14:49 <oedipus> ACTION: Kelly - draft more definitive fact-based opinion from IE developers 
19:15:01 <oedipus> JB: anyone else want to take action item on this?
19:15:15 <oedipus> JB: anyone want to tweak wording or wait until get feedback
19:15:20 <oedipus> JA: wait for feedback
19:16:02 <oedipus> TOPIC: Level AA
19:16:08 <oedipus> text: "User override of all UI and recognized content keyboard controls with session persistence Level AA "
19:16:15 <oedipus> AC: no verb
19:16:20 <oedipus> JR: unspoken "there is"
19:16:33 <oedipus> JA: "user can" or "allow user to override"
19:17:02 <oedipus> JB: checking others - "user can override..."
19:17:27 <oedipus> "User can override of all UI and recognized content keyboard controls with session persistence (Level AA)"
19:17:34 <oedipus> JB: need to break down 
19:18:18 <oedipus> GJR proposal; "For keyboard controls with session persistence, the user should be able to override all UI and recognized content keyboard controls."
19:18:40 <oedipus> JB: flip - recognize content keyboard controls for recognized content
19:19:19 <oedipus> JA: thought was 2 parts to UA - application part (UI) and content area
19:19:42 <oedipus> JA: want to be able to override or remap keyboard controls if interferes with AT or physically incapable
19:20:01 <Judy> User can override all user interface and keyboard controls for recognized content with session persistence.
19:20:04 <oedipus> JA: second part (content): accesskey defined for key not on keyboard or keybingind conflict
19:20:31 <oedipus> GJR: do we have definition of recognized content?
19:20:48 <oedipus> JB: does UI apply to controls (all user interface and keyboard controls?)
19:21:05 <oedipus> JA: keyboard controls in UI and keyboard controls in content
19:21:19 <oedipus> JR: keyboard commands rather than controls
19:22:10 <oedipus> JR: "User can override keyboard commands for UI. User can override keyboard commands for recognized content."
19:22:44 <oedipus> GJR: definition of "recognized content"?
19:22:51 <Judy> User can override all keyboard commands for user interface and recognized content with session persistence.
19:23:06 <oedipus> JA: in glossary - content recognized by UA
19:23:40 <oedipus> AC: what is session persistence? permanant or one-off
19:23:51 <oedipus> JR: persistence between sessions?
19:23:54 <oedipus> JA: think so 
19:24:01 <sharper> Is this any better?
19:24:03 <sharper> User can override all keyboard commands used for controlling both the User Interface and recognised content.
19:24:15 <Judy> User can override all keyboard commands for user interface and recognized content with persistence between sessions.
19:24:34 <sharper> User can override all keyboard commands used for controlling both the User Interface and recognised content.
19:24:37 <oedipus> JA: persistence refers to content area - site specific, can be saved for next time access site
19:25:28 <oedipus> JB: not there yet, and dont' think will get there in next 5 minutes
19:25:39 <oedipus> JB: Simon, yours leaves out session persistence
19:26:24 <sharper> ; and this override is maintained between sessions.
19:26:24 <oedipus> JB: session persistence - once agree what is - need to get into right place in sentence; make sure that sentence would work without any of the stuff in the middle 
19:26:29 <Judy> User can override [...] with persistence between sessions.
19:27:00 <oedipus> GJR: model is how UAs handle cookies - session only, always for this site, never
19:27:33 <oedipus> JB: user can then select or configure whether want configuratgion overrides to last between sessions
19:27:35 <oedipus> GJR: right
19:27:44 <oedipus> JB: for UI commands and recognized content
19:27:58 <oedipus> AC: User can configure keyboard interface of UA to ..."
19:28:13 <oedipus> JB: user can set configurations that persist between sessions
19:28:50 <Judy> User can set configurations that persist between sessions for keyboard commands for user interface and recognized content.
19:29:14 <Judy> User can set configurations that persist between sessions for both keyboard commands for user interface and recognized content.
19:29:20 <Judy> wrong
19:29:35 <Judy> User can set configurations that persist between sessions for keyboard commands for both user interface and recognized content.
19:30:09 <Judy> User can set configurations that persist between sessions for keyboard commands for both user interface and recognized content.
19:30:11 <Judy> sorry
19:30:36 <oedipus> GJR friendly ammendment: Users SHOULD have the choice of applying specific configurations for a specific site, for the duration of a particular sesion, in the same manner that a user can control cookie collection
19:31:00 <Judy> User can [override and ...]configurations that persist between sessions for keyboard commands for both user interface and recognized content.
19:31:45 <oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - wordsmith user configuration, persistence and override GL
19:31:46 <Alan> User can override default keyboard commands...
19:32:02 <oedipus> JB: can everyone comment on Jim's proposals?
19:32:29 <oedipus> JB: AC, JS will be away, but everyone else should review:
19:32:35 <oedipus> http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm
19:33:00 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2008/keyboardProposals20080714.html
19:36:17 <oedipus> zakim, please part
19:36:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
19:36:24 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
19:36:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-minutes.html oedipus
19:36:26 <jeanne> zakim, who's here?
19:38:30 <oedipus> present- aaaa
19:38:34 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
19:38:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-minutes.html oedipus
19:42:43 <oedipus> present- [+1.512.233.aaaa
19:42:46 <oedipus> present- [+1.512.233.aaaa]
19:43:00 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
19:43:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-minutes.html oedipus
19:44:03 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
19:44:03 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-actions.rdf :
19:44:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kelly, Jan, and Jim - develop replacement for list of specific commands for WG review [1]
19:44:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-irc#T18-53-53
19:44:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kelly - draft more definitive fact-based opinion from IE developers  [2]
19:44:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-irc#T19-14-49
19:44:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Gregory - wordsmith user configuration, persistence and override GL [3]
19:44:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-ua-irc#T19-31-45