IRC log of bpwg on 2008-07-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:07 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #bpwg

13:59:07 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-irc

13:59:09 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:59:09 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #bpwg

13:59:11 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

13:59:11 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM already started

13:59:12 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:59:12 [trackbot]

Date: 17 July 2008

13:59:20 [Zakim]

+??P12

13:59:26 [francois]

Chair: DKA

13:59:31 [jo]

trackbot, start meeting

13:59:32 [jo]

zakim, ??p12 is me

13:59:32 [Zakim]

+jo; got it

13:59:33 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:59:35 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

13:59:35 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot, I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM already started

13:59:36 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:59:36 [trackbot]

Date: 17 July 2008

13:59:44 [Zakim]

+Francois

13:59:48 [francois]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0056.html

14:00:12 [francois]

Regrets: Pontus, rob, Chaals, AlanC, Murari, Aaron, Miguel, Soonho, Scott, EdM, Yeliz, dom

14:00:37 [DKA]

zakim, who is here?

14:00:37 [Zakim]

On the phone I see DKA, jo, Francois

14:00:39 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, DKA, jo, jeffs, francois, trackbot, dom, matt

14:00:55 [francois]

Regrets+ hgerlach

14:01:11 [Zakim]

+jeffs

14:01:54 [Zakim]

+??P25

14:02:23 [Zakim]

+ +0796627aaaa

14:02:23 [DKA]

zakim, ??p25 is drooks

14:02:25 [jeffs]

(waves)

14:02:27 [Zakim]

+drooks; got it

14:04:41 [francois]

zakim, aaaa is adam

14:04:41 [Zakim]

+adam; got it

14:04:43 [seungyun]

seungyun has joined #bpwg

14:05:17 [seungyun]

Hi all

14:05:19 [DKA]

zakim, who is here?

14:05:19 [Zakim]

On the phone I see DKA, jo, Francois, jeffs, drooks, adam

14:05:21 [Zakim]

On IRC I see seungyun, Zakim, RRSAgent, DKA, jo, jeffs, francois, trackbot, dom, matt

14:05:31 [seungyun]

I am Seungyun Lee from ETRI, Korea

14:05:46 [seungyun]

I am only available on IRC sorry.

14:05:48 [jo]

scribe: jo

14:06:12 [DKA]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20080717

14:06:22 [jo]

Topic: WEb Apps Best Practices

14:07:24 [jo]

adam: tried to fold in comments from F2F, tried to condense it a bit, a ways to go before a complete document but the goal of the doc is clear enough to go to FPWD. This weeks doc is just a few typo fixes no major changews from last week

14:07:28 [francois]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:07:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-minutes.html francois

14:07:32 [Zakim]

+Kai

14:07:51 [jo]

dka: what is incomplete at this point or need additional stuff where we need to draw attention

14:08:17 [jo]

adam: additional bps from scott on presentation issues and added a note to say we expect to see more

14:08:46 [jo]

... the section on User Identity is more than it set out to be, can address this in future revisions

14:08:57 [jo]

... most bits that need attention have editorial notes

14:09:04 [jo]

dka: jo?

14:09:09 [jo]

jo: think it is good to go

14:09:39 [Zakim]

+Bryan_Sullivan

14:09:54 [jeffs]

"should be retained"? user decisions?

14:10:02 [Kai]

Kai has joined #bpwg

14:10:27 [jo]

jo: think we should kick this off now, not a complete doc but is just fine for a fpwd

14:10:53 [DKA]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: the working group resolves to release a first public working draft of BP2 based on the current draft from 17 July.

14:11:35 [jo]

francois: no need to worry about exclusion as it is non normative

14:11:39 [jeffs]

+1

14:11:40 [francois]

+1

14:11:43 [jo]

+1

14:11:52 [DKA]

+1

14:11:55 [jeffs]

getting pub feedback fine

14:12:04 [Kai]

+1

14:12:05 [DKA]

okeydokey

14:12:07 [Bryan]

Bryan has joined #bpwg

14:12:51 [jo]

RESOLUTION: the working group resolves to release a first public working draft of BP2 based on the current draft from 17 July.

14:12:58 [jeffs]

+1

14:13:47 [francois]

q+

14:13:53 [jo]

jo: well donebryan and adam!

14:13:56 [Zakim]

-adam

14:14:11 [francois]

ack francois

14:14:14 [jo]

s/donebryan/done bryan/

14:14:43 [DKA]

ack franc

14:15:10 [jo]

francois: I am trying to coordinate the release of BP1 with XHTML Basic 1.1 etc. and I would like this to go with it which means that it would wait a week

14:15:41 [jo]

dka: I don't see that as a problem ... francois can you explain @@@

14:15:44 [DKA]

Can we talk about the press release and the rechartering?

14:15:46 [DKA]

(as agendum 1)

14:16:24 [jo]

francois: there is no news on the rechartering - the AC review runs to end July so nothing can happen on that front, at least there is no bad news.

14:16:30 [jo]

... so far

14:17:56 [jo]

... the press release, taking more time than we hoped it's difficult to release more than one doc at the same time, originally we were going to do a press release next week, - either it will slip by a week, that is most likely, or it will slip by 6 weeks to september - hoping that we will be done by the 29th July, but can't be sure

14:18:26 [DKA]

I sent in Vodafone's testimonial today, FYI.

14:18:47 [jo]

... mcf is going to send a reminder shortly on testimonials - already did this, now a reminder with a more precise press release draft

14:19:14 [SeanP]

SeanP has joined #bpwg

14:19:20 [jo]

... although we decided to move mobileOK to PR it may not make it at the same time

14:19:22 [jo]

q+

14:19:29 [DKA]

I will have to revise my rider then.

14:19:31 [DKA]

ack jo

14:19:56 [DKA]

I think it's much better to do it as one big bang release.

14:20:04 [jo]

jo: I'd prefer if the checker announcement went at the same time as mobileOK Basic, rather than before

14:20:28 [jo]

francois: I agree, basically, but don't think it makes much difference

14:20:38 [Zakim]

+SeanP

14:20:49 [jo]

... the press release wont refer to the java library it will refer to the online presence

14:20:52 [jo]

q+

14:20:59 [DKA]

q?

14:21:02 [DKA]

ack jo

14:21:02 [francois]

ack jo

14:21:10 [jo]

... we'll do another press release in Sept when mobileOK goes to PR

14:21:11 [DKA]

go jo

14:21:57 [jo]

jo: I think we need to discuss what status the online presence of the checker has

14:22:12 [jo]

francois: yes, you man we should not talk about this in the press release

14:22:26 [jo]

jo: yes, the group was not chartered to produce this and it is not a deliverable

14:22:51 [jo]

francois: difficult to talk about the java library in the press release, I will talk to MCF about it

14:23:09 [DKA]

Topic: CT Document

14:23:20 [jo]

Topic: CT Task FOrce Report

14:23:26 [jo]

s/FOrce/Force/

14:23:40 [jeffs]

sorry, gotta go... must put out "fire"

14:24:04 [DKA]

Scribe: DKA

14:24:08 [DKA]

ScribeNick: DKA

14:24:17 [Zakim]

-jeffs

14:24:23 [DKA]

Francois: I hope we can publish a last call in a few weeks' time.

14:24:37 [DKA]

Scribe: DKA

14:24:40 [DKA]

ScribeNick: DKA

14:25:00 [DKA]

Jo: I think we should publish a second public working draft next week.

14:25:08 [DKA]

Francois: Publish it as it is and get some feedback?

14:25:40 [DKA]

Jo: I think we need a new public revision whether or not it's a last call.

14:25:57 [DKA]

Francois: I'd prefer if we can do a last call. Let's see how many comments there are.

14:26:13 [DKA]

I agree - we should try to publish it as a last call.

14:27:11 [jo]

[I think the document needs to be complete for last call, and it won't be by next week]

14:28:21 [DKA]

I have a commercially driven need to release the doc as a lc.

14:28:27 [DKA]

Francois: What's left?

14:28:31 [seungyun]

q+

14:28:53 [DKA]

Jo: It will need another task force call to agree any changes.

14:28:58 [DKA]

Jo: HTTPS stuff is a major issue.

14:29:01 [DKA]

ack seu

14:29:09 [seungyun]

Can I see some reference implementation of CT at the moment?

14:30:05 [DKA]

Jo: We don't have a reference implementation at the moment. The point of LC is to encourage people to go to implementation phase.

14:30:19 [seungyun]

OK I see, thanks

14:30:19 [DKA]

Jo: We're as anxious as we can be to move the story forward to move to CR as soon as possible.

14:30:21 [DKA]

+1

14:31:00 [jo]

[the point of CR is to get implementation experience so we are really keen to push forward to get to that point and we have to go to last call first]

14:31:11 [seungyun]

The reason why I ask is that we may need CT implementation for our mobileOK trial service in Korea.

14:31:17 [jo]

scribe: Jo

14:32:34 [jo]

jo: I believe, in response to Seungyun's point, that the document is very nearly stable so it is about time to start implementations

14:32:37 [seungyun]

If there is no, we will try to implement it by ourself followed by W3C's CT spec I think.

14:32:55 [seungyun]

I agree.

14:32:56 [jo]

francois: I agree, but we won't be producing any reference implementations

14:33:22 [seungyun]

ok

14:33:56 [jo]

... people have until Tuesday to make comments on the current draft - assuming everything is fine we can recommend to go to last call on Thursday next week. If on the other hand we were not ready we could do a 2nd PWD

14:34:13 [jo]

dka: I'd like to see us getting the work done before everyone goes on holiday

14:34:37 [jo]

... so we need to be in LC asap

14:34:43 [seungyun]

+1

14:34:46 [jo]

Topic: Korean Task Force Report

14:35:02 [seungyun]

I have a short report for KoreanTF.

14:35:08 [jo]

dka: anything to report from Korea?

14:35:11 [DKA]

Anything to report from Korean Task Force, Seungyun?

14:35:22 [DKA]

Thanks go ahead on IRC if you wish.

14:35:37 [seungyun]

nothing special, but I have short report

14:35:42 [seungyun]

thanks

14:35:56 [DKA]

Ok - do you want to paste it in or link to a document or do you want to join us on audio?

14:35:58 [seungyun]

1. We have updated some TF members for NHN, TTT.

14:36:43 [seungyun]

As a result, all of TF members are BPWG members at the moment.

14:37:03 [seungyun]

s/TTT/TTA

14:37:07 [DKA]

That's good news.

14:37:26 [DKA]

So this addresses the issue that some Korean Task Force members were not W3C members?

14:37:28 [jo]

[noted that Soon-il Cha, Dongjin Choi and Jae-kyung Shin have joined the group - Welcome!]

14:38:08 [seungyun]

I believe it is starting point to encourage them to join the W3C as a potential member: TTA, NHN

14:38:08 [francois]

Scribe: francois

14:38:26 [DKA]

Great.

14:38:42 [seungyun]

2. We are now preparing the Gap Analysis documents.

14:38:42 [DKA]

Anything further from Korean TF at this point?

14:38:47 [DKA]

ok sorry!

14:39:16 [seungyun]

in order to make more relevant document, we will discuss about again our document framework.

14:39:43 [jo]

scribe: Jo

14:40:18 [seungyun]

there was one open issue for our document work, which is about how to reflect our Gap analysis document to W3C BPWG standards in future?

14:41:07 [DKA]

I think we (the main group) needs to review your document and apply it to future work (e.g. BP2).

14:41:10 [DKA]

Make sense?

14:41:27 [seungyun]

I agree in personally :)

14:41:48 [DKA]

Ok - what is the expected time-frame for finishing that document?

14:42:24 [seungyun]

maybe this october or november

14:42:41 [jo]

when do you expect a first draft?

14:42:51 [DKA]

Would be better earlier - as the earlier it comes to us the more influential it will be over BP2.

14:42:55 [jo]

it would be useful to have an understanding of the direction asap

14:43:05 [DKA]

And we are expected to be quite well along on BP2 by November.

14:43:07 [seungyun]

BTW, In the next meeting, I am able to speak more clear plan for our document.

14:43:11 [jo]

so it can influence both BP2 and BP 1.5

14:43:18 [seungyun]

I agree

14:43:35 [seungyun]

I really hope so.

14:43:43 [DKA]

Ok thanks - can you communicate to the other TF members that getting a draft of that gap analysis to the main group earlier would be desireable?

14:43:45 [seungyun]

So we will do our best.

14:43:46 [jo]

OK, so can we aask if you would report on timescales on the list, or on the next WG call?

14:43:52 [DKA]

Ok thanks!

14:43:57 [jo]

s/aask/ask/

14:43:58 [seungyun]

sure

14:44:13 [seungyun]

3. Mobile Web 2.0 Forum is now preparing the Preparing Trial Service

14:44:45 [seungyun]

It is expected that we will start it from next month and many players including network operators, portals, vendors will join it.

14:44:59 [seungyun]

we will explore BP, DD standards and MobileOK schemes.

14:45:45 [Bryan_Sullivan]

Bryan_Sullivan has joined #bpwg

14:45:53 [DKA]

Sorry Seungyun --

14:46:14 [seungyun]

after our trail service, we also publish the report document to BPWG.

14:46:46 [seungyun]

this is all of report for Korean TF today.

14:47:13 [DKA]

Ok thanks, Seungyun - much appreciated you joining us so late in your day to deliver that report.

14:47:19 [seungyun]

any question about our trial service?

14:47:32 [seungyun]

thanks

14:47:53 [jo]

[seungyun, suggest we take comments on the mailing list as we are a bit short of time now, thanks for the report]

14:48:11 [jo]

Topic: POWDER

14:48:29 [jo]

kai: hoping to go to last call on most things in a week or tow [?]

14:48:37 [jo]

... mobileOK ...

14:49:49 [Kai]

There some minor changes to the mobileOK vocab and example that Phil had sent to the group. As such we should use the latest version of this example.

14:50:54 [jo]

[ref the mobileOK vocab, the sooner the better but we have a log jam on mobileOK scheme, so timeliness is not holidng us up]

14:51:16 [Kai]

http://www.w3.org/2007/powder/Group/powder-dr/20080711.html#evidence

14:51:41 [jo]

q+ to observe that we don't have a mobileOK ovcab doc any more

14:52:15 [jo]

kai: the referenced doc needs to change to note that there is no Pro any more

14:52:48 [DKA]

"There is One MobileOK"

14:52:58 [DKA]

ack jo

14:52:58 [Zakim]

jo, you wanted to observe that we don't have a mobileOK ovcab doc any more

14:55:18 [jo]

[discussion about whether the claim is for mobileOK or for mobileOK Basic Tests]

14:55:44 [jo]

[there was a resolution at Sophia that apparently has been ambiguously interpreted]

14:56:22 [jo]

Issue: Need clarity on the meaning of a mobileOK Claim, Basic Tests or not?

14:56:22 [trackbot]

Created ISSUE-269 - Need clarity on the meaning of a mobileOK Claim, Basic Tests or not? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/269/edit .

14:56:24 [Kai]

Here is the current text of the example (excerpt thereof)

14:56:24 [Kai]

<descriptorset>

14:56:24 [Kai]

13 <typeof src="http://www.w3.org/2008/06/mobileOK#Basic" />

14:56:24 [Kai]

14 <displaytext>The example.com webiste conforms to mobileOK Basic</displaytext>

14:56:24 [Kai]

15 <displayicon src="http://www.w3.org/ICONS/mobileOK-basic.png" />

14:56:25 [Kai]

16 </descriptorset>

14:56:45 [Kai]

q+

14:57:10 [jo]

dka: I thought we had clarified that we were going to minimise the use of the word Basic in all the material but I am not emotional about that kind of thing

14:58:37 [DKA]

q?

14:58:41 [DKA]

ack kai

14:59:01 [jo]

kai: the salient sections are pasted above - the type of claim, the description, and so on

14:59:23 [jo]

... and also the icon

15:00:02 [jo]

dka: do we need to make this an issue and discuss further?

15:00:20 [jo]

jo: think we should discuss on list and deal with it next week

15:00:40 [jo]

Topic: BP 1.5 (formerly mobileOK Pro)

15:00:45 [jo]

kai: no progress

15:01:15 [jo]

... back to mobileOK basic, I think the group would be more in favour of Basic, but that is just a subjective view

15:01:42 [jo]

Topic: Summer Meeting Schedule

15:02:03 [jo]

dka: have we already decided this, is this 2008? Am I dan?

15:02:07 [francois]

-> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/37584/bpwg-summer08/results Poll results

15:02:12 [DKA]

:)

15:02:18 [jo]

francois: no we haven't made a decision

15:02:49 [jo]

... no strong views expressed

15:03:21 [jo]

... Aug 14 and 21 fewer people around, suggest we drop those calls as we are chairless for those days anyway

15:03:37 [jo]

[yes]

15:04:03 [jo]

... rechartering review period is done on 28 we need a call on the 31st

15:04:19 [jo]

... in case there is anything to discuss

15:04:42 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: No calls on 7 and 14 Aug, review on 31 July need for a call on Aug 7

15:05:27 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: No calls on 14 and 21 Aug, review on 31 July need for a call on Aug 7

15:05:42 [jo]

dka: makes fun of jo

15:05:52 [jo]

jo: preserves a dignified silence

15:06:00 [DKA]

:)

15:06:14 [DKA]

+1

15:06:47 [jo]

RESOLUTION: No calls on 14 and 21 Aug, review on 31 July need for a call on Aug 7

15:06:54 [DKA]

way

15:07:08 [Kai]

regrets for Aug 7th :-)

15:07:32 [Kai]

I am on vaction .. yeahh!!

15:07:47 [DKA]

ack jo

15:07:54 [DKA]

Topic: ETSI

15:09:05 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and wishes to proceed with it. BP notes that it works in public and asks Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

15:09:29 [francois]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Jul/0036.html ETSI liaison document

15:09:47 [jo]

dka: ETSI wishes to exchange documents and wishes to reference work of the BPWG

15:10:15 [jo]

... don't see any reason not to accept this, benefit may be wider reference to our work

15:10:24 [francois]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:10:24 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-minutes.html francois

15:10:36 [DKA]

+1

15:11:06 [seungyun]

+1

15:11:15 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and wishes to proceed with it. BPWG notes that it works in public and that documents from ETSI would need to be in the public domain. BPWG asks Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

15:11:44 [Kai]

+1 to welcoming ETSI

15:12:28 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and wishes to proceed with it. BPWG notes that it works in public and that documents from ETSI would not be private when discussed by BPWG. BPWG asks Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

15:12:50 [DKA]

+1

15:12:54 [jo]

dka: public domain may be misconstrued

15:13:06 [jo]

... ok let's take it, any dissention?

15:13:10 [jo]

+1

15:13:16 [Kai]

+1

15:13:33 [seungyun]

+1

15:13:45 [jo]

RESOLUTION: BPWG welcomes the liaison request from ETSI and wishes to proceed with it. BPWG notes that it works in public and that documents from ETSI would not be private when discussed by BPWG. BPWG asks Chairs/Team to progress this discussion

15:13:50 [DKA]

Rockin.

15:14:14 [jo]

ACTION: DKA to get back to ETSI in accordance with above resolution

15:14:14 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-814 - Get back to ETSI in accordance with above resolution [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2008-07-24].

15:15:08 [jo]

dka: let's call it a day and do ISSUEs and ACTIONs next week

15:15:09 [DKA]

AOB?

15:15:13 [jo]

topic: AOB

15:15:22 [DKA]

Hearing none...

15:15:40 [Zakim]

-Bryan_Sullivan

15:15:41 [Zakim]

-drooks

15:15:42 [jo]

there being none the call closed at 1615+1

15:15:44 [Zakim]

-Francois

15:15:45 [Zakim]

-Kai

15:15:47 [Zakim]

-DKA

15:15:47 [Kai]

Kai has left #bpwg

15:15:48 [Zakim]

-SeanP

15:15:50 [jo]

zakim, drop jo

15:15:50 [Zakim]

jo is being disconnected

15:15:51 [seungyun]

goodbye all, I am going to bed :)

15:15:52 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended

15:15:53 [Zakim]

Attendees were DKA, jo, Francois, jeffs, +0796627aaaa, drooks, adam, Kai, Bryan_Sullivan, SeanP

15:15:56 [francois]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:15:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-minutes.html francois

15:16:40 [jo]

s/WEb Apps/Web Apps

15:17:22 [jo]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:17:22 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-minutes.html jo

15:19:59 [jo]

s/This weeks/This week's/

15:20:05 [seungyun]

seungyun has left #bpwg

15:21:02 [seungyun]

seungyun has joined #bpwg

15:21:24 [seungyun]

seungyun has left #bpwg

16:36:38 [francois]

RRSAgent, bye

16:36:38 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-actions.rdf :

16:36:38 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DKA to get back to ETSI in accordance with above resolution [1]

16:36:38 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/17-bpwg-irc#T15-14-14

16:36:42 [francois]

Zakim, bye

16:36:42 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #bpwg