IRC log of tagmem on 2008-07-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:56:43 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
16:56:43 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-tagmem-irc
16:57:10 [Stuart]: Stuart has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/07/03-tag-xri
16:57:10 [Ashok]: Ashok has joined #tagmem
16:57:32 [Stuart]: Meeting: Joint TAG and XRI TC
16:58:09 [Stuart]: zakim, this will be tag
16:58:09 [Zakim]: ok, Stuart; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:58:47 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
16:58:50 [fhirsch]: fhirsch has joined #tagmem
16:58:50 [Stuart]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:58:50 [Zakim]: On the phone I see no one
16:58:54 [Zakim]: +??P7
16:59:00 [fhirsch]: zakim, what is the code?
16:59:00 [Zakim]: the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), fhirsch
16:59:01 [Stuart]: zakim, ??p7 is me
16:59:03 [Zakim]: +Stuart; got it
16:59:06 [Zakim]: + +aaaa
16:59:09 [Zakim]: -Stuart
16:59:10 [Zakim]: +Stuart
16:59:32 [Zakim]: +Ashok_Malhotra
16:59:49 [Stuart]: zakim, +aaa is Will
16:59:49 [Zakim]: +Will; got it
17:00:17 [Zakim]: + +1.443.864.aabb
17:00:20 [Zakim]: - +1.443.864.aabb
17:00:51 [Stuart]: zakim, who is here?
17:00:51 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra
17:00:52 [Zakim]: On IRC I see fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm, ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot
17:00:55 [Zakim]: +DanC
17:01:01 [Zakim]: + +1.443.864.aacc
17:01:06 [gwachob]: gwachob has joined #tagmem
17:01:07 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:01:24 [fhirsch]: zakim, +[IPCaller] is fhirsch
17:01:24 [Zakim]: sorry, fhirsch, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPCaller]'
17:01:35 [fhirsch]: zakim, IPCaller is fhirsch
17:01:35 [Zakim]: +fhirsch; got it
17:01:42 [Zakim]: + +1.206.364.aadd
17:01:45 [fhirsch]: zakim, who is here?
17:01:47 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, +1.443.864.aacc, fhirsch, +1.206.364.aadd
17:01:51 [Zakim]: On IRC I see gwachob, fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm, ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot
17:01:58 [ReallyJeffH]: 0825# not valid
17:02:20 [Zakim]: +jar
17:02:24 [Zakim]: + +1.703.650.aaee
17:02:34 [Zakim]: +Norm
17:02:45 [Zakim]: +??P2
17:02:46 [Stuart]: zakim, +1.206 is Drummond
17:02:47 [Zakim]: +Drummond; got it
17:02:57 [jar]: jar has joined #tagmem
17:03:12 [Zakim]: +TimBL
17:03:29 [Zakim]: + +aaff
17:03:35 [Zakim]: + +1.703.728.aagg
17:03:41 [Stuart]: zakim, +1.443 is lchasen
17:03:41 [Zakim]: +lchasen; got it
17:03:43 [ReallyJeffH]: 0824 seemed to work
17:03:45 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
17:03:55 [ht]: zakim, [ is ht
17:03:55 [Zakim]: +ht; got it
17:04:04 [timbl]: timbl has joined #tagmem
17:04:11 [Zakim]: + +1.425.644.aahh
17:04:14 [DanC]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:04:14 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, lchasen, fhirsch, Drummond, jar, +1.703.650.aaee, Norm, ??P2, TimBL, +aaff, +1.703.728.aagg, ht, +1.425.644.aahh
17:04:20 [wil]: wil has joined #tagmem
17:04:31 [Zakim]: + +1.925.686.aaii
17:04:36 [ReallyJeffH]: huh?
17:04:39 [DanC]: Zakim, aaii is victor
17:04:39 [Zakim]: +victor; got it
17:04:39 [gwachob]: i'm on skypeout
17:04:47 [wil]: i'm not sure i have a phone number
17:05:05 [peterdavis]: zakim, +1.703.728 is peterdavis
17:05:05 [Zakim]: +peterdavis; got it
17:05:17 [wil]: +1.571.434.7933 is Wil Tan
17:05:21 [Zakim]: + +1.617.513.aajj
17:05:46 [timbl]: Zakim, +1.571.434.7933 is Wil
17:05:46 [Zakim]: sorry, timbl, I do not recognize a party named '+1.571.434.7933'
17:05:46 [MartySchleiff]: MartySchleiff has joined #tagmem
17:05:49 [Norm]: It does queue management, can mute folks, etc.
17:05:56 [timbl]: Zakim, 7933 is Wil
17:05:56 [Zakim]: sorry, timbl, I do not recognize a party named '7933'
17:05:56 [fhirsch]: zakim, who is here?
17:05:57 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, lchasen, fhirsch, Drummond, jar, +1.703.650.aaee, Norm, ??P2, TimBL, +aaff, peterdavis, ht, +1.425.644.aahh, victor,
17:06:02 [Zakim]: ... +1.617.513.aajj
17:06:02 [ReallyJeffH]: i have no idea what call # i am
17:06:03 [Zakim]: On IRC I see MartySchleiff, wil, timbl, jar, gwachob, fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm,
17:06:06 [Zakim]: ... ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot
17:06:06 [Zakim]: + +1.310.293.aakk
17:06:08 [jbradley_ve7jtb]: zakim, +1.703.650 is jbradley_ve7jtb
17:06:08 [Zakim]: +jbradley_ve7jtb; got it
17:06:11 [wil]: 7933.wil
17:06:25 [ht]: JeffH, what area code are you calling in from?
17:06:36 [ReallyJeffH]: 571 i think
17:06:41 [Stuart]: zakim, who is here?
17:06:41 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Stuart, Will, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, lchasen, fhirsch, Drummond, jar, jbradley_ve7jtb, Norm, ??P2, TimBL, +aaff, peterdavis, ht, +1.425.644.aahh, victor,
17:06:44 [Zakim]: ... +1.617.513.aajj, +1.310.293.aakk
17:06:46 [Zakim]: On IRC I see MartySchleiff, wil, timbl, jar, gwachob, fhirsch, Ashok, RRSAgent, Stuart, peterdavis, jbradley_ve7jtb, ReallyJeffH, MSabadello, nikaj, Drummond_Reed, lchasen, Norm,
17:06:48 [Zakim]: ... ht, DanC, Zakim, trackbot
17:07:58 [Zakim]: + +1.415.206.aall
17:08:29 [DanC]: DanC has changed the topic to: TAG/XRI telcon http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/07/03-tag-xri
17:09:36 [Ashok]: scribenick Ashok
17:09:42 [Drummond_Reed]: BTW, the page Peter will be speaking to in a minute is http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriTcW3cTag
17:10:00 [Zakim]: + +1.612.387.aamm
17:10:15 [Ashok]: Stuart outlines objectives of the call
17:10:33 [Ashok]: Drummond: Peter will co-chair the call
17:11:02 [ht]: A reminder to our guests that we take minutes in IRC, and the IRC logs will be public in an hour or two, so bear that in mind
17:11:31 [Zakim]: + +43.195.8aann
17:11:46 [MSabadello]: zakim, +43 is MSabadello
17:11:46 [Zakim]: +MSabadello; got it
17:12:07 [Ashok]: Peter: This initial call shd be a discovery process that will start a productive dialog
17:12:34 [nikaj]: zakim, +aamm is nikaj
17:12:34 [Zakim]: sorry, nikaj, I do not recognize a party named '+aamm'
17:12:46 [nikaj]: zakim, aamm is nikaj
17:12:46 [Zakim]: +nikaj; got it
17:13:18 [Ashok]: Stuart: We take notes on IRC. The minutes are public. I will run the minutes by the chair of the XRI TC before publishing
17:14:26 [Ashok]: Introductions
17:15:55 [Ashok]: ht: The bar for introducing new URI schems shd be very high and I think XRI does not get over the bar but lets discuss
17:16:56 [Ashok]: jar: We are looking for URIs for data integration ...
17:18:34 [Ashok]: Drummond: Lack of discussion seems to have led to a number on misunderstandings on both sides ... I hope we can clear those up
17:20:22 [timbl]: "Global Registry" ? pointer?
17:20:43 [Zakim]: +Dave_Orchard
17:20:50 [JeffH]: I may have been pegged as IPcaller
17:21:44 [Drummond_Reed]: XRI global registry services are provided by XDI.org (http://xdi.org) - Cordance and NeuStar are contractors to XDI.org
17:22:24 [Ashok]: Frederick is that you?
17:22:25 [timbl]: Ashok, are you capturing these intros somewhere?
17:22:41 [Ashok]: no, I was not ... only the high points
17:23:16 [Ashok]: Jamie: Looks forward to better colaboration between OASIS and W3C
17:23:53 [ht]: q+ for question of clarification wrt the IPR issue
17:24:09 [ht]: q+ to ask for question of clarification wrt the IPR issue
17:24:56 [Ashok]: fhirsch: I'm with Nokai and also on the OASIS board. I am interested in how all this works out
17:24:57 [GabeW]: it would be great to have fhirsch here
17:25:35 [Ashok]: Stuart: Frederick, I'm happy nto have you stay. Our records are public
17:25:36 [peterdavis]: XRI TC is fine with Fredericks attendance
17:26:04 [fhirsch]: s/Nokai/Nokia/
17:26:24 [timbl]: Paul Trevithick (sp?) -- started teh Higgins project, unifying objects a cross a glbal graph.
17:26:53 [Ashok]: Paul Trevithick ... started Higgins project which has to do with identifying objects over a global graph
17:27:44 [Ashok]: DaveO: Tah member... belives in using exiting technogies where possible but I'm open ...
17:27:59 [Ashok]: s/Tah/Tag/
17:29:42 [Zakim]: -jbradley_ve7jtb
17:29:42 [ht]: q- ht
17:30:13 [Ashok]: Sturat: Peter, please summarize where XRI TC is
17:30:28 [Ashok]: Peter: We will do some TAG teaming on this
17:30:30 [Drummond_Reed]: Peter will be speaking to a page on the XRI TC wiki: http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriTcW3cTag
17:31:06 [Ashok]: Peter: I have 4 sub-tems on the intro
17:31:26 [Ashok]: What the problems the XRI TC expects to solve ... usecases
17:31:47 [Ashok]: Conclusions we came to ... URis were not quite sufficeint to address these
17:32:04 [Ashok]: How the XRI commitee drafts solev these
17:32:10 [Ashok]: IPR issues
17:32:48 [Ashok]: Problems we are aiming to solve
17:33:33 [timbl]: "feasibility of URIs w r t to authority production" ?
17:33:40 [Ashok]: 1. Canniot be dependent on any transport or protocol or authority
17:34:07 [Ashok]: TinBl asks clarification on authority part
17:34:27 [Ashok]: Peter: Did not want to be dependent on any authority
17:34:59 [Ashok]: 2. Independence of any characteristic of resource that may change over time
17:35:15 [jbradley_ve7jtb]: FYI I was dropped by the bridge and can't get back in because it is full.
17:35:49 [jbradley_ve7jtb]: I will stay on IRC
17:35:56 [peterdavis]: Enables cross-mapping of multiple abstract or concrete identifiers for the same resource
17:36:19 [timbl]: The TC had a requirment to craete multiple synonym IDs which could be canonicalized into one canonical ID.
17:36:25 [Ashok]: This gets at the issue of synonms
17:36:35 [timbl]: -- timbl's understnading if what was said
17:36:56 [Drummond_Reed]: clarification: it is not a requirement that the synonyms *must* be canonicalized into one, just that this is an option
17:37:05 [Ashok]: 4. can map any number of concrete identifiers into a service ... such as SOAP service
17:37:39 [Ashok]: We have a small number of services types that can be used with XRIs
17:38:00 [Drummond_Reed]: @Stuart, it's okay - we don't need to disturb the call
17:38:06 [Ashok]: SOAP, or XML get or a more complex service
17:38:21 [Ashok]: TimBL: These are to resolve references
17:38:59 [Ashok]: Peter: No, can point to specific service such as UDDI
17:39:11 [ht]: John Bradley: dial *0 when you are told you can't get in
17:39:24 [ht]: and ask Josh to patch you in manually
17:40:07 [jbradley_ve7jtb]: OK
17:40:28 [Ashok]: Drummond: These are captured on the page above
17:40:42 [Stuart]: ie. http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriTcW3cTag
17:40:46 [Ashok]: I think of XRI as abstraction layer on URIs
17:40:57 [Zakim]: +jbradley_ve7jtb
17:41:31 [Ashok]: Peter: Another requirement is Cross context identifiers
17:41:53 [Zakim]: -Drummond
17:41:57 [Ashok]: So, one identifier can refernce another identifier in another scheme
17:42:32 [Ashok]: Peter: Marty provides examples in Boeing usecases
17:43:13 [Ashok]: Marty: In a directory situation, looking up a authenticated identifier and looking up it's properties
17:43:14 [Zakim]: -Will
17:43:42 [Ashok]: e.g. X509 identifiers, ... SAML assertions.
17:43:51 [Zakim]: +Drummond
17:44:07 [Ashok]: Lot of internal apps look up things based on employee number
17:44:58 [Ashok]: XRI can help describe identifier and then point to matching rules
17:45:13 [Drummond_Reed]: sorry, I got dropped due to operator error (my own)
17:45:18 [Drummond_Reed]: am back
17:46:37 [Ashok]: Stuart: please explain this XRI
17:46:42 [Stuart]: xri://=(mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com)
17:47:00 [GabeW]: I'd note, btw, that this mailto: URI is not my actual email address...
17:47:18 [JeffH]: i.e. this is just an example?
17:47:22 [GabeW]: which is an accident
17:47:34 [Ashok]: Peter/; in fronnt is a cross reference. The = global context symbol. There are 4
17:47:37 [DanC]: "=" is xri syntax meaning "the authority is an individual" <- that's what I understood
17:47:51 [peterdavis]: ashok, drummond is speaking, FWIW
17:47:54 [Ashok]: Says it's personal
17:48:00 [timbl]: "Global context symbol -- there are 4 = person , + general,. @ orgamization $ standards body
17:48:06 [timbl]: "
17:48:56 [timbl]: / is global context and / is a authority -local context
17:49:04 [timbl]: ... // is global context and / is a authority -local context
17:49:55 [Ashok]: In native form you don't need xri:
17:49:58 [Drummond_Reed]: XRI syntax defines four global context symbols for establishing shared context for an identifier
17:50:05 [Drummond_Reed]: = for personal identifiers
17:50:19 [Drummond_Reed]: @ for organizational identifiers
17:50:41 [Norm]: So xri://= means it's a person, xri://@ means it's an organization, etc.?
17:50:52 [timbl]: Norm, yes I tink so
17:51:20 [Ashok]: Cross context works at any level of the path
17:51:20 [DanC]: don't think so, Norm; I gather xri://=(mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com">mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com) is notation for mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com ; i.e. it refers to a mailbox, not a person.
17:51:20 [GabeW]: Norm: yes
17:51:31 [peterdavis]: xri://@boeing*(@example*bob) is form Boeing use case
17:51:47 [DanC]: oops; looks like I misunderstood.
17:51:48 [GabeW]: DanC: the stuff inside the () is just a string -- but it can be extracted mechanically as a URI
17:51:48 [peterdavis]: perhaps a better subject for dicusion
17:51:51 [Ashok]: Marty: It will be the example about multipl identity providers for a single entity
17:52:29 [Stuart]: GabeW: is it nor more restrict down to being another XRI?
17:53:02 [Drummond_Reed]: actually, Dan's point is a very good one: mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com">mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com is an identifier of a mailbox, while xri://=(mailto:gabewachob@gmail.com) can be an identifier of the person using that mailbox
17:53:10 [Ashok]: Stuart: Do you want to go back to top-level of the summary
17:53:23 [DanC]: can be?
17:53:42 [Ashok]: Peter: We discussed looking at URis and we thought a new identifier sysntax was necessary
17:54:04 [Drummond_Reed]: I say "can be" because the assertion is that the authority for that identifier is a person
17:54:42 [Ashok]: 1. A uri is either local or requires a DNS. DNs may not be always right authority. E.g telephone number does not use DNS.
17:54:58 [Norm]: So an XRI for a telephone number would include an authority component?
17:55:08 [timbl]: tel://1/617/671/6200
17:55:20 [Ashok]: TimBL: Telephone numbers have a hierarchical pattern to them
17:55:29 [timbl]: That would have been fine use of punct
17:56:19 [Ashok]: Peter: It does have a delegation pattern look to it
17:56:38 [Ashok]: But some identifiers do not have delgation properties to them
17:57:34 [Ashok]: 2. This notion of crossreferencing is not possible ... embedding identifiers is important to us
17:57:58 [Ashok]: 3. synonm support -- we did not find a model for synonms
17:58:22 [DanC]: (the pattern of "http doesn't have X so we can't use http" seems to skip past the possibility of layering X on top of http. e.g. synonyms; RDF/OWL layers synonyms on top of http (and other) URIs )
17:58:37 [Ashok]: 4. Notion of interop service discovery ... UDDI, ebXML discussion
17:59:12 [Ashok]: http schems could probably fulfil this with careful instructions
17:59:28 [Stuart]: q?
17:59:54 [Ashok]: Drummond: IPR concerns were brought up in contect of XRI vote
18:00:06 [Ashok]: We have noted concerns on the page
18:01:08 [Ashok]: Requirement that IPR be RF ...
18:03:13 [Ashok]: Jamie: 3 things ...I'm not sure which are TAGs concern
18:05:21 [Ashok]: I don't think the IPR issues were core of the TAGs critiques
18:05:24 [MartySchleiff]: Norm - look for 'express" in the Boeing XRI use cases
18:05:42 [Ashok]: Sorry ... I had trouble getting the IPR points ...
18:06:14 [timbl]: I think that people on the net checked wondered about the reason for starting a new naming scheme and look for commercial motivation.
18:06:23 [Ashok]: ht: We had questins abt registration and mangement process
18:07:01 [Ashok]: TimBL: The TAGs concerns is architectural... competion with URI space
18:07:15 [Ashok]: What's the motivation?
18:07:43 [Ashok]: Historically, the motivation has been commercial
18:08:03 [Ashok]: People have been asking on the net
18:08:19 [Ashok]: HT articulates TAG's position
18:09:48 [Ashok]: Gloss on the single sentence ... TAGs reading is understand, document and prserve the value proposition of the architecture of the Web
18:10:12 [Ashok]: Centrality if the Web being a single information space.
18:10:24 [dorchard]: dorchard has joined #tagmem
18:10:28 [Ashok]: s/if/is/
18:10:49 [Ashok]: This hugely important in keeping the Web valuable
18:11:05 [JeffH]: on which list was this said, HT ?
18:11:23 [Ashok]: It's not the other schema split the info space but they Balkanize it
18:11:36 [Ashok]: s/schema/schemes/
18:11:57 [Ashok]: Thus, bar on new identifier schemes must be very high
18:12:37 [Ashok]: Yiou need to demo there is a bar for URIs doing what you want or there is a huge value add
18:12:54 [Ashok]: Convenience is not enough
18:13:16 [Stuart]: q?
18:13:31 [Ashok]: many types of naming schemes amoit to lookup + hierarchy
18:14:02 [Ashok]: Existing mechanisms have solved a bunch of problems
18:14:37 [Ashok]: reinventing all that has a huge cost -- both technical and social
18:15:18 [Ashok]: We have not heard convincing arguments that XRI provides enough value add to overcome that cost
18:15:53 [Ashok]: I will give you all your requirements and still say the cost of fragmenting the info space is too high
18:16:23 [Ashok]: Cost to a naming scheme no one can click on and follow
18:17:03 [Ashok]: Any new naming scheme require a huge amount of work from a lot of folks to get into the game
18:17:07 [dorchard]: The Mark Baker email about fragmented information space is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008Jun/0042.html
18:17:25 [MartySchleiff]: Henry - did you read my response to your misrepresentation of how things work at Boeing?
18:17:40 [ht]: Yes, and I'm glad to hear that things are more flexible than I thought
18:17:50 [ht]: I know of many other large organisations that don't have that flexibility
18:17:58 [Ashok]: Stuart: Let's allow 10 minutes of discussion and get to next steps in last 5 minutes
18:18:00 [timbl]: q+
18:18:03 [timbl]: q-
18:18:26 [peterdavis]: q+
18:18:34 [Stuart]: ack peter
18:18:35 [MartySchleiff]: q+
18:18:47 [Drummond_Reed]: q+
18:19:01 [Ashok]: Peter: We do not want to fragment the info space
18:19:25 [Ashok]: There are several facets to XRI naming structure that we may or may not have articulated
18:20:25 [Ashok]: We did not find ways to represent embedded idenfiers within URI BNF
18:21:02 [timbl]: The political requirement to make a different authority to IANA was mentioned earlier
18:21:11 [Ashok]: Many of our identifiers use DNs some do not. We need to figure out which do and do not
18:21:11 [Stuart]: q?
18:21:17 [Stuart]: ack Marty
18:22:07 [ht]: HST thinks that addressing the "http scheme did not allow us to to use non-DNS authority resolution" is a very concrete challenge that we could focus on
18:22:15 [Drummond_Reed]: Yes, and in fact XRI proxy resolution -- which uses XRIs in HTTP URI form -- does that
18:22:16 [Ashok]: Marty: Boing usecases do not talk abt click behaviour or what the browser is supposed to do
18:22:29 [Ashok]: s/Boing/Boeing/
18:22:45 [GabeW]: in fact, xri.net/<xristuff> is how xri's are largely being resolved today
18:22:49 [Stuart]: q?
18:22:49 [DanC]: (hmm... where does the requirement to use non-DNS authorities come from? that sounds more like a solution than a requirement. Indeed, why doesn't http://xri.org/etc work?)
18:22:55 [Stuart]: ack Drummond
18:23:00 [dorchard]: q+ to talk about protocol independence and metadata in URIs
18:23:11 [Ashok]: The cost of introducing all new fetures into URI would be more than introducing a new scheme
18:23:34 [Ashok]: Drummond: Intention is not to fragment the info space
18:24:55 [Ashok]: Our requirements were not URI compatible ... we tried and defined mapping from XRI to URI and IRI normal forms
18:25:01 [dorchard]: q?
18:25:11 [Stuart]: There's a relevant message from Roy Fielding at: http://www.w3.org/mid/DA4CB689-4D55-4261-9AA3-B63BD2308D43@gbiv.com
18:25:30 [Ashok]: The cross reference requirement has grown in important ... primarily to data sharing
18:25:41 [Ashok]: the XDI TC is looking into that
18:25:51 [peterdavis]: danc, because, in part, identifiers are produced in many spaces, not just atop the Internet Protocol
18:25:54 [DanC]: (embedding URIs inside other URIs doesn't require a new scheme. every forms-based service that asks users to input a URI does it, e.g. the W3C markup validation service.)
18:26:01 [Stuart]: he says (amongst other things): "... Because http URIs are not,
18:26:01 [Stuart]: in fact, dependent on DNS.
18:26:01 [Stuart]: "
18:26:08 [MartySchleiff]: Ashok - The cost of introducing all new fetures into http: would be more than introducing a new scheme
18:26:14 [Stuart]: q?
18:26:32 [peterdavis]: peterdavis has joined #tagmem
18:26:45 [dorchard]: Really, it has far more to do with a basic misunderstanding of
18:26:45 [dorchard]: web architecture, namely that you have to use HTTP to get a
18:26:45 [dorchard]: representation of an "http" named resource.
18:27:06 [Stuart]: ack dor
18:27:06 [Zakim]: dorchard, you wanted to talk about protocol independence and metadata in URIs
18:27:11 [Ashok]: We want to create compatibility with info space while adding a branch that adds value
18:27:17 [Stuart]: q+ jamie
18:27:46 [peterdavis_]: peterdavis_ has joined #tagmem
18:27:56 [DanC]: peterdavis, no Internet Protocol operations are needed to mint an identifier that starts with http://xri.org/
18:28:21 [Ashok]: DaveO: Yiu say you don't want to fragment info space but it sure looks like it
18:28:54 [Ashok]: You dupicate a number of URI infrastructure
18:29:03 [MartySchleiff]: +q
18:29:23 [Ashok]: What's the killer app for XRI's?
18:30:15 [Stuart]: zakim, please close the queue.
18:30:15 [Zakim]: ok, Stuart, the speaker queue is closed
18:30:29 [Ashok]: We could say "XRIs will be URIs" and this meets some of our requirements but not all
18:31:11 [Ashok]: DaveO: An early claim was 'we need XRIs to prevent phishing attacks'
18:33:07 [Ashok]: Web Services have fragmented the info space and this has caused great grief
18:33:44 [Ashok]: Web Services have carved out a small space ... this has restricted their growth
18:33:59 [Ashok]: I don't want to see that happening again
18:34:26 [GabeW]: thats an issue I'm personally interested in, fwiw
18:34:27 [Zakim]: -jar
18:34:40 [Ashok]: Roy says http identifiers do not have to be bound to http
18:34:54 [Norm]: They sure don't.
18:35:44 [Ashok]: XRI coud use a URI template to restrict space for special uses
18:35:52 [timbl]: q?
18:36:23 [timbl]: ok
18:36:25 [Stuart]: ack jamie
18:37:00 [Ashok]: Jamie: The list of concerns tells me we need more conversation
18:37:14 [Ashok]: should continue
18:37:57 [Stuart]: q?
18:38:06 [Ashok]: Visceral response from OASIS -- we shd reply to critique
18:38:59 [Ashok]: Some of the OASIS community comes from a different perspective re. single info space
18:39:00 [Stuart]: ack Marty
18:39:32 [Ashok]: We need to discuss which XRI requirements could be satisfied by URI schemes
18:39:38 [ht]: Jamie == James Bryce Clark ?
18:39:52 [peterdavis_]: yes
18:40:05 [Ashok]: Stuart: Summer is looming may be hard to schedule calls
18:40:23 [Ashok]: Please use public mailing lists for technical discussion
18:40:33 [ht]: HST votes for non-DNS authority as really central, and easiest to explore
18:40:44 [Ashok]: Perhaps we need more focussed calls on some of Peters items
18:41:51 [Ashok]: Peter: I agree on exploring single requirements
18:41:53 [ht]: HST hopes that we stay on www-tag or somewhere similar -- we need more expertise than we have in this small group. . .
18:42:22 [Ashok]: Drummond: Subgroups may be an efficient way to proceed
18:42:50 [peterdavis_]: i agree ht. just challenging to follow this topic independent of the other topics on www-tag
18:42:55 [Ashok]: Stuart: Let's go back and think abt subgoups
18:43:08 [Ashok]: Drummond: We can also do f2f meetings
18:43:32 [MartySchleiff]: +q
18:43:33 [GabeW]: thanks all!
18:43:35 [jar]: jar has joined #tagmem
18:43:43 [GabeW]: see some of you on #swig
18:43:47 [Zakim]: -Dave_Orchard
18:43:57 [Ashok]: Peter: We appreciate taking up your call ... look forward to further discussion
18:43:59 [Zakim]: - +1.415.206.aall
18:44:00 [Zakim]: -ht
18:44:00 [jbradley_ve7jtb]: by
18:44:00 [Zakim]: -Norm
18:44:01 [Zakim]: -peterdavis
18:44:02 [Zakim]: -Stuart
18:44:03 [Zakim]: -Drummond
18:44:04 [Zakim]: - +1.617.513.aajj
18:44:05 [Ashok]: Thanks all around
18:44:05 [Zakim]: -jbradley_ve7jtb
18:44:06 [Zakim]: -nikaj
18:44:08 [Zakim]: -victor
18:44:10 [Zakim]: -fhirsch
18:44:14 [Zakim]: -??P2
18:44:14 [Ashok]: Close of meeting
18:44:18 [Zakim]: -MSabadello
18:44:20 [Drummond_Reed]: Thank you Askhok for scribing
18:44:20 [Zakim]: - +1.425.644.aahh
18:44:35 [Zakim]: -lchasen
18:44:37 [Ashok]: rrsagent, make logs public
18:44:52 [wil]: thanks all
18:45:03 [Zakim]: -TimBL
18:45:17 [Stuart]: Thanks Ashok... let me know if you need help assembling the meeting record. Thx.
18:47:09 [nikaj]: nikaj has left #tagmem
18:47:43 [nikaj]: nikaj has joined #tagmem
18:47:50 [nikaj]: nikaj has left #tagmem
18:50:17 [Zakim]: -Ashok_Malhotra
18:50:23 [Zakim]: - +1.310.293.aakk
18:50:56 [Ashok]: Stuart ... do you know the URI for the log?
18:51:04 [GabeW]: GabeW has left #tagmem
18:52:11 [DanC]: RRSAgent, pointer?
18:52:11 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-tagmem-irc#T18-52-11
18:52:16 [DanC]: Ashok, there's the log
18:53:02 [DanC]: it's probably not readable, though; "RRSAgent, make logs member-access" or "... world-access" is probably neede
18:53:50 [Ashok]: Got it! Thx!
19:34:01 [Ashok]: zakim, list participants
19:34:01 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been Stuart, +aaaa, Ashok_Malhotra, Will, +1.443.864.aabb, DanC, +1.443.864.aacc, fhirsch, +1.206.364.aadd, jar, +1.703.650.aaee, Norm,
19:34:05 [Zakim]: ... Drummond, TimBL, +aaff, +1.703.728.aagg, lchasen, [IPcaller], ht, +1.425.644.aahh, +1.925.686.aaii, victor, peterdavis, +1.617.513.aajj, +1.310.293.aakk, jbradley_ve7jtb,
19:34:07 [Zakim]: ... +1.415.206.aall, +1.612.387.aamm, +43.195.8aann, MSabadello, nikaj, Dave_Orchard
19:49:50 [Zakim]: -DanC
19:50:19 [Norm]: Norm has joined #tagmem
19:54:50 [Zakim]: disconnecting the lone participant, +aaff, in TAG_Weekly()1:00PM
19:54:54 [Zakim]: TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
19:54:55 [Zakim]: Attendees were Stuart, +aaaa, Ashok_Malhotra, Will, +1.443.864.aabb, DanC, +1.443.864.aacc, fhirsch, +1.206.364.aadd, jar, +1.703.650.aaee, Norm, Drummond, TimBL, +aaff,
19:54:59 [Zakim]: ... +1.703.728.aagg, lchasen, [IPcaller], ht, +1.425.644.aahh, +1.925.686.aaii, victor, peterdavis, +1.617.513.aajj, +1.310.293.aakk, jbradley_ve7jtb, +1.415.206.aall,
19:55:01 [Zakim]: ... +1.612.387.aamm, +43.195.8aann, MSabadello, nikaj, Dave_Orchard
20:07:25 [timbl]: timbl has left #tagmem