13:55:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:55:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-bpwg-irc
13:55:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:55:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:55:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:55:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:55:56 <trackbot> Date: 03 July 2008
13:56:11 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0008.html
13:57:20 <dom> Chair: francois
13:57:53 <Scott> Scott has joined #bpwg
13:58:30 <hgerlach> hgerlach has joined #bpwg
13:58:43 <Pontus2> Pontus2 has joined #bpwg
13:59:07 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
13:59:19 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
13:59:34 <Zakim> + +46.3.17.47.aaaa
13:59:38 <Zakim> - +46.3.17.47.aaaa
13:59:40 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
13:59:42 <Zakim> Attendees were +46.3.17.47.aaaa
13:59:48 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
13:59:52 <Zakim> +Francois
14:00:25 <Zakim> + +0049211aaaa
14:00:43 <Zakim> + +46.3.17.47.aabb
14:00:54 <achuter> achuter has joined #bpwg
14:01:13 <Pontus2> zakim, +46 is Pontus2
14:01:13 <Zakim> +Pontus2; got it
14:01:17 <Zakim> + +1.774.762.aacc
14:01:18 <dom> zakim, code?
14:01:21 <Zakim> the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom
14:01:29 <Zakim> +??P18
14:01:36 <yeliz> zakim, ??P18 is yeliz
14:01:36 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
14:01:38 <francois> Regrets: murari, rob, EdM
14:01:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:01:42 <Zakim> +??P19
14:01:44 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
14:01:44 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:01:53 <francois> Regrets+ nacho
14:02:00 <francois> zakim, who is on the call?
14:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois, +0049211aaaa, Pontus2, +1.774.762.aacc, yeliz (muted), ??P19, achuter
14:02:22 <dom> zakim, mut eme
14:02:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mut eme', dom
14:02:25 <dom> zakim, mute me
14:02:25 <Zakim> dom? should now be muted
14:02:26 <Zakim> +??P20
14:02:34 <dom> zakim, ??P20 is miguel
14:02:34 <Zakim> +miguel; got it
14:02:43 <francois> Regrets+ nacho
14:02:45 <francois> zakim, who is on the call?
14:02:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois, +0049211aaaa, Pontus2, +1.774.762.aacc (muted), yeliz (muted), dom? (muted), achuter, miguel
14:02:45 <abel> zakim,  miguel is with me
14:02:48 <Zakim> sorry, abel, I do not recognize a party named 'abel'
14:02:53 <dom> zakim, dom is really dom
14:02:53 <Zakim> +dom; got it
14:03:09 <abel> zakim, miguel holds abel
14:03:09 <Zakim> +abel; got it
14:03:17 <Zakim> +jo
14:03:38 <Zakim> - +1.774.762.aacc
14:03:44 <Sisyphus> zakim, jo is temporarily me
14:03:44 <Zakim> +Sisyphus; got it
14:03:52 <francois> zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois, +0049211aaaa, Pontus2, yeliz (muted), dom (muted), achuter, miguel, Sisyphus
14:03:54 <Zakim> miguel has abel
14:04:19 <hgerlach> and heiko
14:04:24 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
14:04:28 <francois> zakim, aaaa is hgerlach
14:04:28 <Zakim> +hgerlach; got it
14:04:30 <Sisyphus> zakim, aaaa is heiko
14:04:30 <Zakim> sorry, Sisyphus, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
14:04:47 <francois> Regrets+ dan
14:05:40 <dom> zakim, pick a victim
14:05:40 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yeliz (muted)
14:05:51 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
14:05:51 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:06:05 <dom> ScribeNick: yeliz
14:06:08 <Zakim> + +0207881aadd
14:06:22 <aconnors> aconnors has joined #bpwg
14:06:44 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #bpwg
14:07:21 <dom> ack me
14:07:30 <yeliz> Topic: Accessibility document
14:07:37 <francois> zakim, aadd is adam
14:07:37 <Zakim> +adam; got it
14:07:38 <dom> zakim, aadd is adam
14:07:39 <Zakim> sorry, dom, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
14:07:55 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080702/ Updated draft of the doc
14:08:03 <yeliz> francoise: updated document for publication
14:08:14 <Zakim> +Kai_Dietrich
14:08:15 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Jul/0002.html Shawn's comments
14:08:24 <yeliz> some comments made by Shawn which delayed the publication
14:08:34 <dom> s/oise/ois/
14:08:37 <yeliz> Alan: Shawn sent some comments that she doesn't mind
14:09:01 <Zakim> +SeanP
14:09:02 <achuter> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/Accessibility/drafts/ED-mwbp-wcag-20080702/
14:09:08 <yeliz> Alan: correcting the names at the top of the document, Liam made CSS to make the navigation look better
14:09:32 <yeliz> Alan: put the sub-heading with the overview to make it clearer to identfiy the document
14:10:08 <yeliz> Alan: long list of BP that has not been checked which I don't remember the page they belong to
14:10:15 <yeliz> Alan: so it's more complete
14:10:19 <Kai> Kai has joined #bpwg
14:10:33 <yeliz> Alan: there was a confusion about the together document so that now stayed in
14:10:47 <yeliz> Alan: is there any reservation, please say so
14:11:03 <yeliz> Francoise: I think the document is fine
14:11:22 <dom> s/Francoise/Francois/
14:11:23 <yeliz> Francoise: trying to put the publication today and it might be delayed up until Monday
14:11:27 <dom> s/Francoise/Francois/
14:11:39 <yeliz> but otherwise we are on track and thank you for updating
14:11:59 <Zakim> -achuter
14:12:00 <yeliz> Topic: mobile Web best practices 1.0
14:12:01 <Eman> Eman has joined #bpwg
14:12:20 <yeliz> Francois: Jo published a new version
14:12:26 <yeliz> but didn't publicise it
14:12:27 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-1.0/BestPractices Updated BP 1.0 draft
14:12:42 <yeliz> there are very few changes since proposed recommendation
14:12:51 <francois> -> http://tinyurl.com/44t6qt diff file between PR and this draft
14:13:06 <yeliz> Francois: there are few changes, those agreed
14:13:29 <yeliz> Francoise: suggest you all look at the document, there will no be resolution
14:13:42 <yeliz> if you really have some points to make it's now or never
14:13:45 <dom> s/Francoise/Francois/
14:14:08 <yeliz> Topic: Mobile OK Basic tests
14:14:26 <yeliz> Francois: two comments were made, one from me and one from DOM
14:14:33 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-comments/2008AprJun/0004.html first comment from Dom
14:14:33 <dom> s/DOM/Dom/
14:14:46 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-comments/2008AprJun/0007.html second comment from df
14:14:51 <francois> s/df/fd/
14:15:27 <yeliz> Francois: send comments
14:15:40 <yeliz> Francois: we won't be able to resolve today
14:15:42 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jul/0013.html Jo's proposals
14:15:47 <yeliz> we can start to look at them though
14:16:05 <yeliz> basically the problem is again with the object processing
14:16:10 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
14:16:10 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:16:13 <jsmanrique> jsmanrique has joined #bpwg
14:16:29 <yeliz> there is a bit inconsistency in the current document
14:16:41 <yeliz> we say that the checker has to donwload the ...
14:16:59 <yeliz> to check the object, regardless of the...
14:17:05 <Sisyphus> q+
14:17:24 <yeliz> so it's a bit inconsistent, we don't count the objects as if we don't retrieve the object
14:17:27 <abel> zakim, miguel also holds jsmanrique
14:17:27 <Zakim> +jsmanrique; got it
14:17:28 <yeliz> it would be good
14:17:36 <francois> ack Sisyphus 
14:17:39 <yeliz> if everyone can look at the proposal
14:18:09 <yeliz> Jo: there are, as a result of the comments made by dom and Francois
14:18:20 <yeliz> there are clarifications
14:18:35 <yeliz> in the latest, I am proposing solution
14:18:50 <yeliz> as Man. pointed out
14:19:06 <yeliz> we don't check the absence of an object, in the case of a valid image
14:19:18 <yeliz> we should clarify that we are planning to do that
14:19:37 <francois> Ex: <object src="img.gif" type="image/gif" /> is currently vaild, but there should be an alternative text, some fallback text
14:19:40 <yeliz> if the object doesn't type attribute then we need to issue a worning
14:19:47 <francois> s/vaild/valid/
14:20:13 <yeliz> According to Dom's tests
14:20:19 <yeliz> some borwsers do
14:20:21 <yeliz> ....
14:20:48 <yeliz> I think it is worth maintaining the object processing
14:21:01 <yeliz> it's worth worning that they will behave that way
14:21:01 <francois> Ex: <object src="huge_img_of_several_MBs.png" type="image/png"> is retrieved by some user agents
14:21:24 <yeliz> We say that if the type attribute is specified, then don't count in those resources
14:21:28 <yeliz> the reason is that
14:21:36 <yeliz> that thing won't be retrived
14:22:13 <yeliz> that was missing in the last draft
14:22:25 <yeliz> Mobile OK tests will change with this
14:22:35 <yeliz> it won't effect the pass or fail
14:22:42 <yeliz> overall result of the test will not change
14:22:45 <dom> +1 to change being non-substantive
14:23:22 <yeliz> we do need this to be right
14:23:36 <yeliz> I am gooing ahead and change this unless there are comments
14:24:13 <yeliz> Francois: any comments from object procvessing experts?
14:24:28 <yeliz> Francois: suggest that people take a close look at the proposed update
14:24:35 <yeliz> we will then approve the document next week
14:24:59 <yeliz> Jo: Francois fault to raise this issue
14:25:10 <yeliz> Jo: text needs to be changed for this section
14:25:26 <yeliz> Jo: I am hoping that it won't be substantive change
14:25:41 <yeliz> Jo: failed docs will pass, hoping
14:26:07 <yeliz> Jo: minor clarifiction of that, 406 means that server does not have a compatible to serve
14:26:34 <yeliz> Jo: there is an issue here that external resources would have failed, 406
14:26:51 <yeliz> Jo: if the URI does not resolve that will call a failure
14:27:37 <yeliz> Jo: Kai, it would be good if you give your comments
14:27:44 <yeliz> kai: not sure what you mean
14:28:08 <yeliz> Jo: 406 means the server look at the header, and it doesn't have a suitable resource
14:28:32 <yeliz> Jo: as things stand if the document links to somewhere..
14:28:39 <yeliz> kai: we had already cleared that
14:28:48 <yeliz> kai: what about the areas in the document that you link to
14:29:02 <yeliz> Jo: link resources is not examined
14:29:27 <yeliz> Jo: if links broken, that should not cause a failre
14:29:36 <yeliz> Jo: we had such a long discussion
14:29:51 <yeliz> Kai: I agree that;s a good soslution
14:30:06 <yeliz> Kai: you can be responsible from where you link to
14:30:18 <yeliz> Jo: right, OK. Just to be completely clear about this
14:30:29 <yeliz> Jo: link resources will ...in failure
14:30:53 <abel_> abel_ has joined #bpwg
14:30:54 <yeliz> I believe we have discussed in the pass and  agreed on this, but I just wanted to make sure that we agree
14:31:04 <yeliz> Kai: I don't remember what we have discussed
14:31:44 <yeliz> Jo: I am happy with this, anybody has any views you should fail MobileOK for URLs not reolves then  they need to speak now or keep quite forever
14:31:53 <yeliz> Francois: I agree with the suggested changes
14:32:19 <Sisyphus> s/will .../for which the URI does not resolve will result /
14:32:20 <yeliz> Francois: If you have any comments, please tell them. Please review the proposed changes and we will resolve next week
14:32:32 <yeliz> Francois: any other comments on Mobile OK?
14:32:41 <Kai> s/ I don't remember what we have discussed/I believe the discussion cannot be brought to its full conclusion, but this seems reasonable.
14:32:50 <yeliz> Francois: Jo, can we get an updated draft next week
14:33:06 <yeliz> Jo: I will get it done tonigh, that will be draft 44
14:33:26 <Sisyphus> s/44/41/
14:33:40 <yeliz> Topic: Progress corner
14:34:26 <yeliz> Francois: can we make a press release that we are working on enhanced best practices.
14:34:39 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
14:34:39 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:34:51 <yeliz> I am definetely going to circulate on Monday
14:35:00 <yeliz> and a working draft next wed.
14:35:18 <Sisyphus> s/I am/adam: I am
14:35:35 <yeliz> Adam: sorry for running late, I will circulate Monday
14:36:38 <yeliz> Francois: CTG, we are addressing the remaining issues
14:36:53 <yeliz> Francois: it would be easier if we get the workign draft
14:37:13 <yeliz> Francois: Checker?
14:37:21 <yeliz> Miguel: we are making progress
14:37:45 <yeliz> Miguel: we haven't finished the...
14:37:57 <yeliz> Miguel: we are finishing the ...processing
14:38:22 <francois> s/.../object /
14:38:47 <yeliz> Miguel: we hope to commit the latest changes tmorrow morning
14:38:58 <yeliz> and finish the scripts, and CSS stuff
14:39:29 <yeliz> Francois: depending on whether there is an objection to Jo's proposal to Object processing
14:39:53 <yeliz> Miguel: depending on your changes, we have to make some modifications to the code
14:40:05 <yeliz> Francois: it will just be adjustments, fine-tunning
14:40:15 <yeliz> Miguel: yes
14:40:30 <yeliz> Francois: thank you, any comment on checker?
14:40:44 <yeliz> Francois: MobileOK Pro?
14:40:57 <yeliz> Kai: no, there is no to do
14:41:10 <dom> ACTION-798?
14:41:10 <trackbot> ACTION-798 -- Kai Scheppe to work proposed changes into the mobileOK Pro document and then turn it over to the group -- due 2008-06-25 -- OPEN
14:41:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/798
14:41:13 <yeliz> Francois: action to address the comments dicussed in F2F
14:41:25 <yeliz> Kai: I haven't looked at that
14:41:31 <yeliz> Francois: you have one or two actions
14:41:39 <francois> ACTION-798?
14:41:40 <trackbot> ACTION-798 -- Kai Scheppe to work proposed changes into the mobileOK Pro document and then turn it over to the group -- due 2008-06-25 -- OPEN
14:41:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/798
14:41:49 <yeliz> Francois: to be precise these are the actions
14:41:59 <yeliz> Francois: thanks
14:42:16 <yeliz> Topic: Request for Comments on Widgets 1.0 Requirements Last Call WD
14:42:24 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jun/0066.html Request for comments on Widgets
14:42:33 <yeliz> Francois: let's look at the review requested
14:42:46 <yeliz> the document is in last call, we were asked to review
14:43:01 <yeliz> Francois: action someone to take a look at the document
14:43:04 <dom> ["The Last Call period ends on 1 August 2008."]
14:43:10 <Sisyphus> q+
14:43:15 <yeliz> Francois: an report to the document, is there a specialist?
14:43:23 <francois> ack Sisyphus 
14:43:29 <yeliz> Jo: I am not going to offer to do that
14:43:34 <yeliz> I have other fish to fry
14:43:44 <yeliz> someone could take an action to raise an issue
14:43:53 <yeliz> and then we would be able to discuss on the list
14:44:20 <yeliz> Francois: would like to do both: to raise an issue and have someone to look at it
14:44:31 <yeliz> Jo: it depends what the final comments are
14:44:38 <yeliz> Jo: I am happy to respond to that
14:44:54 <yeliz> Jo: what I cannot promise to do review on time and then take it further
14:44:59 <yeliz> any volunteer?
14:45:05 <yeliz> Francois: anybody?
14:45:13 <dom> zakim, pick a victim
14:45:13 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Pontus2
14:45:41 <yeliz> Brian: I just gona say to make initial comments?
14:45:58 <yeliz> Francois: initial comments to trigger the discussion in the mailing list?
14:46:08 <yeliz> Brian: not sure what is raising an issue?
14:46:16 <yeliz> Francois: we could do it right now
14:46:27 <dom> ack me
14:46:28 <yeliz> Francois: creating an issue now
14:46:50 <yeliz> Dom: I guess if we have someone owning an action, issue is unneeded, overhead
14:47:15 <yeliz> Pontus: I will be on vocation for 4 weeks
14:47:22 <yeliz> so may be you are not the right victom
14:47:22 <Sisyphus> s/Brian/Bryan/
14:47:39 <yeliz> Francois: Bryan, volunteer?
14:47:54 <yeliz> Bryan, I can send some comments to the list
14:47:56 <dom> ACTION: Bryan to send initial comments on Widget Requirements
14:47:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-806 - Send initial comments on Widget Requirements [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2008-07-10].
14:48:01 <yeliz> Francois: initial comments would be good
14:48:05 <yeliz> Thanks Bryan
14:48:15 <abel_> abel_ has left #bpwg
14:48:18 <yeliz> Topic: Issues and Actions
14:48:32 <Sisyphus> s/Bryan, I/Bryan: I/
14:48:33 <yeliz> Francois: already some open actions are closed
14:48:35 <francois> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2008Jul/0001.html Obsolete actions already closed
14:48:40 <Sisyphus> q+
14:48:42 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/pendingreview 12 pending review action items
14:48:53 <dom> q?
14:48:55 <yeliz> Francois: some pending review actions
14:48:58 <francois> ack Sisyphus 
14:49:27 <yeliz> Jo: I just wanted to mention that we had a discussion about if we will have calls in action
14:49:40 <yeliz> Francois: you are both away in August
14:49:44 <Sisyphus> s/action/August/
14:49:55 <yeliz> I was planning to create a poll and send the link to the list
14:50:11 <yeliz> Jo: why don't we do it with a poll
14:50:25 <yeliz> Francois: I will create a little poll and see where that leads
14:50:35 <yeliz> Francois: some calls won't happen in August
14:50:41 <yeliz> Francois: pending actions?
14:50:43 <dom> ACTION-637?
14:50:43 <trackbot> ACTION-637 -- Alan Chuter to check on which WCAG 1.0 checkpoints were dropped in 2.0 due to untestability. -- due 2008-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:50:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/637
14:50:47 <yeliz> Action 637?
14:50:47 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
14:51:12 <yeliz> related to mobile OK pro, we are not stressing this ..
14:51:22 <yeliz> any objection to close this?
14:51:31 <dom> close ACTION-637
14:51:31 <trackbot> ACTION-637 Check on which WCAG 1.0 checkpoints were dropped in 2.0 due to untestability. closed
14:51:42 <dom> ACTION-677?
14:51:42 <trackbot> ACTION-677 -- Daniel Appelquist to create an issue to start bringing together potential test cases. -- due 2008-03-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:51:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/677
14:51:43 <yeliz> Action 677
14:51:43 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
14:51:56 <dom> ISSUE-268?
14:51:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-268 -- Test cases to illustrate mobile web application best practices -- OPEN
14:51:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/268
14:52:20 <dom> close ACTION-677
14:52:21 <trackbot> ACTION-677 Create an issue to start bringing together potential test cases. closed
14:52:22 <yeliz> Francois: to advertise the examples on caching dynamic, etc. I am a bit late on my action
14:52:28 <dom> ACTION-688?
14:52:28 <trackbot> ACTION-688 -- Charles McCathieNevile to check if Opera supports WBXML in and/or out of its WML support -- due 2008-03-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:52:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/688
14:52:49 <yeliz> Francois: has any impact mobile Web best practices?
14:53:02 <yeliz> Francois: Charles never replied, don't need anymore?
14:53:05 <yeliz> any comment?
14:53:14 <yeliz> Jo: what about living it open
14:53:24 <dom> s/living/leaving/
14:53:49 <yeliz> Francois: how does that affect mobile web application best practiices?
14:54:18 <yeliz> Francois: Why?
14:54:25 <yeliz> Jo: he didn't do it, did he?
14:54:40 <dom> ack me
14:54:54 <yeliz> Dom: we put it in pending even though it is not complete
14:55:08 <abel> abel has joined #bpwg
14:55:10 <yeliz> Dom: it is not relevant anymore
14:55:31 <yeliz> Bryan: I don't know about Opera's support for .... But 
14:55:50 <yeliz> Bryan: most common xml encoding is WBXML
14:56:12 <yeliz> Bryan: every device that has SMS suport, they do WBXML
14:56:32 <yeliz> Bryan: not sure about Opera, but it is a useful thing for MWBP
14:56:36 <dom> reopen ACTION-688
14:56:36 <trackbot> ACTION-688 Check if Opera supports WBXML in and/or out of its WML support re-opened
14:56:46 <yeliz> Francois: let's switch it to open then
14:57:08 <yeliz> Francois: WBXML can be used for compression...
14:57:24 <dom> ACTION-720?
14:57:24 <trackbot> ACTION-720 -- Daniel Appelquist to raise an issue on extending BPs on ADC and seamless Korean inputs -- due 2008-03-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:57:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/720
14:57:41 <yeliz> Francois: I don't think it is relevant anymore
14:57:51 <yeliz> any objection to close this action?
14:57:56 <dom> close ACTION-720
14:57:56 <trackbot> ACTION-720 Raise an issue on extending BPs on ADC and seamless Korean inputs closed
14:58:03 <dom> ACTION-724?
14:58:03 <trackbot> ACTION-724 -- Jo Rabin to raise discussion on list as to clarification of 2.5.2 "In cases where user preferences contradict server preferences, server preferences prevail, except where the user specifically requires their preferences to over-rule those of the server." -- due 2008-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:58:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/724
14:58:09 <dom> ISSUE-242?
14:58:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-242 -- User expression of persistent and session preferences -- OPEN
14:58:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/242
14:58:40 <yeliz> Francois: you didn't do the action, but because of the issue, we can close the action, do you agree Jo?
14:58:40 <dom> close ACTION-724
14:58:40 <trackbot> ACTION-724 Raise discussion on list as to clarification of 2.5.2 "In cases where user preferences contradict server preferences, server preferences prevail, except where the user specifically requires their preferences to over-rule those of the server." closed
14:58:51 <yeliz> Francois: close then
14:58:54 <dom> ACTION-748?
14:58:54 <trackbot> ACTION-748 -- François Daoust to check what we need to do about a conformance section in BP2 -- due 2008-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:58:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/748
14:59:30 <yeliz> Francois: any comment on this action?
14:59:30 <dom> close ACTION-748
14:59:30 <trackbot> ACTION-748 Check what we need to do about a conformance section in BP2 closed
14:59:35 <yeliz> Let's close the action
14:59:48 <yeliz> Bryan: we already moved those section from the doc anyway
14:59:55 <dom> ACTION-753?
14:59:55 <trackbot> ACTION-753 -- Jo Rabin to contact Tom Hume of Future Platforms about use of microformats -- due 2008-05-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:59:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/753
15:00:29 <dom> q+
15:00:32 <dom> ack me
15:00:32 <yeliz> Francois: let's close the action
15:00:46 <dom> ISSUE-248?
15:00:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-248 -- Can mobile device browsers make use of microformats? -- RAISED
15:00:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/248
15:00:54 <yeliz> Dom: we don't have any action open on Microformats
15:01:36 <yeliz> Dom:need to assign action to somebody to explore microformats? we need somebody to explore it, anybody?
15:02:01 <yeliz> Francois: we switch this to pending action this morning
15:02:08 <Kai> I think it is interesting, but I can't devote time to it
15:02:12 <yeliz> we can live it open but need somebody to work on it
15:02:48 <yeliz> Francois: mobile browsers support microformats, and can we suggest it in MWBP?
15:03:05 <dom> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: microformats are not deployed enough today in mobile browsers to deserve inclusion in MWABP (ISSUE-248)
15:03:18 <yeliz> to explore this and find out whether mobile browsers support microformats?
15:03:19 <Bryan> Bryan has joined #bpwg
15:03:32 <jo> -1 to proposed resolution, I don't think we know
15:03:37 <dom> ok, sounds fair
15:03:45 <dom> let's leave it open then
15:03:54 <yeliz> Francois: we need further investigation
15:04:10 <yeliz> Francois: lets switch back to open
15:04:17 <dom> ack me
15:04:51 <dom> close ACTION-753
15:04:52 <trackbot> ACTION-753 Contact Tom Hume of Future Platforms about use of microformats closed
15:04:54 <yeliz> dom: we can close the action
15:05:04 <dom> ACTION-760?
15:05:04 <trackbot> ACTION-760 -- Jo Rabin to reiterate the caveat on MobileOK in response to Seungyun and cc Korean Task FOrce -- due 2008-05-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:05:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/760
15:05:21 <dom> close ACTION-760
15:05:21 <trackbot> ACTION-760 Reiterate the caveat on MobileOK in response to Seungyun and cc Korean Task FOrce closed
15:05:25 <dom> ACTION-773?
15:05:25 <trackbot> ACTION-773 -- Jo Rabin to send his concerns to the mailing-list re. ISSUE-242 -- due 2008-06-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:05:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/773
15:05:27 <yeliz> Jo: no response from Korean task force
15:05:50 <dom> close ACTION-773
15:05:50 <trackbot> ACTION-773 Send his concerns to the mailing-list re. ISSUE-242 closed
15:05:58 <dom> ACTION-775.
15:06:00 <dom> ACTION-775?
15:06:00 <trackbot> ACTION-775 -- Jo Rabin to enact the RESOLUTION on OBJECTS or script and other updates to the references required as a result of other documents being in new revision -- due 2008-06-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:06:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/775
15:06:10 <yeliz> Jo: I have done it three times
15:06:16 <dom> close ACTION-775
15:06:16 <trackbot> ACTION-775 Enact the RESOLUTION on OBJECTS or script and other updates to the references required as a result of other documents being in new revision closed
15:06:19 <yeliz> Francois: change it under human
15:06:33 <dom> ACTION-795?
15:06:33 <trackbot> ACTION-795 -- Daniel Appelquist to see if R&D colleagues from Spain can help for developing/maintening mobileOK checker -- due 2008-06-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:06:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/795
15:06:44 <dom> close ACTION-795
15:06:44 <trackbot> ACTION-795 See if R&D colleagues from Spain can help for developing/maintening mobileOK checker closed
15:06:56 <dom> ACTION-803?
15:06:56 <trackbot> ACTION-803 -- Kai Scheppe to get the definitive mobileOK example from Phil Archer -- due 2008-06-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:06:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/803
15:06:57 <yeliz> Francois: he did find some people, so close
15:07:36 <yeliz> Bryan: I would like to keep it open
15:07:37 <dom> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jun/0063.html
15:07:45 <dom> ACTION-803: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2008Jun/0063.html
15:07:45 <trackbot> ACTION-803 Get the definitive mobileOK example from Phil Archer notes added
15:07:48 <yeliz> \Bryan\Kai
15:08:18 <yeliz> Kai: I haven't seen that, I would like to keep it open 
15:08:22 <dom> reopen ACTION-803
15:08:22 <trackbot> ACTION-803 Get the definitive mobileOK example from Phil Archer re-opened
15:08:31 <dom> close ACTION-803
15:08:31 <trackbot> ACTION-803 Get the definitive mobileOK example from Phil Archer closed
15:08:36 <yeliz> Kai: close this and open an action to follow on that
15:09:04 <yeliz> Francois: that closes the pending review actions
15:09:23 <Kai> ACTION:  Kai to check on discussion of mobileOK pertinent issues in POWDER
15:09:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-807 - Check on discussion of mobileOK pertinent issues in POWDER [on Kai Scheppe - due 2008-07-10].
15:09:29 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/overdue Overdue actions
15:09:30 <yeliz> there are some open actions, all take a look at these actions
15:09:38 <dom> (still 36 overdue actions)
15:09:57 <yeliz> Francois: goal is to have 5 minutes before the call and update the due that and put some rationale
15:10:23 <yeliz> Francois: some actions go back to March so it would be good if they were addressed timely
15:10:31 <yeliz> I will remind you these actions
15:10:44 <yeliz> so if you can't please let me know that you cannot complete them
15:11:13 <yeliz> not talking about the overdue actions from ...
15:11:22 <yeliz> There is one for yeliz related to ARIA
15:12:26 <yeliz> Yeliz: I don't think I have a definete answer this
15:13:28 <yeliz> Francois: ARIA would be useful but ...
15:13:42 <yeliz> Francois: please have a look at the actions and update the listed actions
15:13:53 <Zakim> -dom
15:13:55 <yeliz> Francois: can we look at the open issues?
15:14:04 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/open Open issues
15:14:22 <yeliz> Francois: there are very old issues
15:14:24 <jo> zakim, who is here?
15:14:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois, hgerlach, Pontus2, yeliz, miguel, Sisyphus, Bryan_Sullivan, adam, Kai_Dietrich, SeanP
15:14:26 <Zakim> miguel has abel, jsmanrique
15:14:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bryan, abel, jsmanrique, Eman, Kai, SeanP, aconnors, Pontus2, hgerlach, Scott, Zakim, RRSAgent, yeliz, jo, francois, dom, matt, trackbot
15:14:41 <yeliz> Francois: what do you think about the old actions?
15:14:51 <yeliz> Kai, we need to make sure that we don't forget anything
15:14:58 <jo> zakim, Sisyphus is really jo
15:14:58 <Zakim> +jo; got it
15:15:24 <jo> zakim, who is here?
15:15:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois, hgerlach, Pontus2, yeliz, miguel, jo, Bryan_Sullivan, adam, Kai_Dietrich, SeanP
15:15:26 <Zakim> miguel has abel, jsmanrique
15:15:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bryan, abel, jsmanrique, Eman, Kai, SeanP, aconnors, Pontus2, hgerlach, Scott, Zakim, RRSAgent, yeliz, jo, francois, dom, matt, trackbot
15:15:38 <yeliz> Francois: important point is that issues don't have actions associated to them, they don't trigger any discussion
15:16:07 <yeliz> Francois: we have an issue for example that sms....
15:16:23 <yeliz> Francois: can we come to conclusion on that?
15:16:25 <dom> ISSUE-253?
15:16:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-253 -- Binding to Incoming SMS from Script -- OPEN
15:16:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/253
15:16:41 <yeliz> Francois: talking about issue 253
15:16:53 <aconnors> q+
15:16:59 <francois> ack aconnors 
15:17:09 <yeliz> Adam: I don't know any way of doing this
15:17:33 <jo> q+ to say I only raised the issue because no one else was willing to when it was raised in Seoul
15:17:43 <jo> ack me
15:17:43 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to say I only raised the issue because no one else was willing to when it was raised in Seoul
15:17:43 <francois> ack jo
15:17:45 <yeliz> Adam: there was a comment to me, at the document it says... specific ways of doing it, and may be we need to cut this and say we cannot do this
15:17:52 <Bryan> q+
15:17:55 <jo> have nothing to add on this subject ...
15:18:01 <francois> ack Bryan 
15:18:37 <yeliz> Bryan: wrt generic web applications...messaging is still under develeopments and Widget dev. is ...
15:19:28 <yeliz> Bryan: is there a way to arbitrarily bind an application to an incoming SMS, other than specific device API
15:20:03 <yeliz> Bryan: quite well supported....but from a generic, W3C perspective, may be quite early
15:20:18 <jo> +1 to closing issue
15:20:21 <yeliz> Francois: it already says push
15:20:44 <yeliz> Adam: there is no standard way of doing it
15:21:13 <yeliz> Adam: I am happy to close this issue
15:21:54 <yeliz> Francois: there are 3 other issues, marked as pending 
15:21:56 <francois> ISSUE-239?
15:21:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-239 -- We still have not found a suitable home for the Techniques. -- RAISED
15:21:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/239
15:22:55 <yeliz> Francois: dom checked the w3C copyright, and need to move the techniques to anywhere else
15:23:04 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The WG is not responsible for transferring the techniques any longer. Close ISSUE-239.
15:23:05 <Kai> +1 to closing it
15:23:08 <jo> q+
15:23:11 <francois> ack jo
15:23:11 <yeliz> and suggest that it is not the problem of the working group
15:23:29 <yeliz> Jo: I guess this means that the techniques are forever...
15:23:37 <yeliz> Jo: before closing this
15:23:45 <yeliz> Francois: techniques is still opened
15:24:30 <yeliz> Jo: I think we need an issue that the whole thing will be shut down
15:24:43 <Kai> We should shut it down properly.
15:24:58 <yeliz> Jo: I prefer if we kill it
15:25:16 <yeliz> Jo: I mean turn it off, sorry guys it's gone
15:25:20 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/techs/TechniquesIntro Techniques Wiki
15:25:39 <yeliz> Francois: it's already done, it's no longer maintained
15:25:52 <yeliz> Jo: it is possible that it contains info. inaccurate
15:25:56 <Kai> q
15:26:00 <Kai> q+
15:26:01 <yeliz> Jo: can we have it disappeared
15:26:09 <yeliz> Francois: I am not sure about the doc.
15:26:09 <francois> ack Kai 
15:26:24 <hgerlach> heiko has to leave- sorry, bye
15:26:28 <Zakim> -hgerlach
15:26:30 <yeliz> Kai: I agree with Jo, it has to go, nobody is maintining and can be embarrassing
15:27:09 <yeliz> Francois: we like to have consistency
15:27:26 <yeliz> Kai: that's what jo suggested
15:27:26 <jo> ACTION: daoust to arrange the funeral of Techniques
15:27:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-808 - Arrange the funeral of Techniques [on François Daoust - due 2008-07-10].
15:27:32 <yeliz> zakim, mute yeliz
15:27:32 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:27:56 <francois> ISSUE-249?
15:27:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-249 -- Should we include information use of DCCI in BP2? -- RAISED
15:27:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/249
15:28:15 <yeliz> Francois: last issue?
15:28:20 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-bpwg-minutes.html#item_awareness discussion during Sophia's F2F
15:28:28 <yeliz> Francois: we had a discussion in F2F meeting
15:28:33 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: DCCI is not implemented yet. We should not create any dependency on it. Don't mention DCCI in this version of MWABP.
15:28:34 <jo> +1
15:28:47 <yeliz> Francois: don't create dependency on something that has not been created
15:28:51 <Pontus2> +1
15:28:56 <yeliz> ...any objection on that?
15:28:58 <francois> s/created/implemented yet/
15:29:03 <aconnors> +1
15:29:12 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:29:12 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:29:27 <yeliz> RESOLUTION: DCCI is not implemented yet. We should not create any dependency on it. Don't mention DCCI in this version of MWABP.
15:29:40 <francois> ISSUE-252?
15:29:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-252 -- Currency of Scope Document -- RAISED
15:29:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/252
15:30:04 <yeliz> Francois: mostly already done
15:30:18 <francois> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: remove reference to scope of BP1 from BP2
15:30:40 <yeliz> Francois: Adam, do you remember this?
15:30:52 <yeliz> Adam: I think we talked about this at the F2F
15:31:03 <jo> +1
15:31:05 <aconnors> +1
15:31:07 <yeliz> Francois: any objection
15:31:13 <yeliz> RESOLUTION: remove reference to scope of BP1 from BP2
15:31:32 <yeliz> Francois: that's all the issue I wanted to address
15:31:38 <jo> [thanks Francois for chairing which was a great help :-)]
15:31:48 <yeliz> ...thanks for attending, we will discuss the future of the mobile Ok tests
15:31:50 <Zakim> -Pontus2
15:31:52 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
15:31:54 <Zakim> -adam
15:31:56 <jsmanrique> see you
15:32:05 <Zakim> -SeanP
15:32:12 <Scott> Scott has left #bpwg
15:32:13 <Zakim> -jo
15:32:15 <Zakim> -Kai_Dietrich
15:32:17 <Zakim> -yeliz
15:32:18 <Zakim> -miguel
15:32:21 <Zakim> -Francois
15:32:22 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
15:32:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Francois, +0049211aaaa, +46.3.17.47.aabb, Pontus2, +1.774.762.aacc, yeliz, achuter, dom?, dom, abel, Bryan_Sullivan, hgerlach, +0207881aadd, adam, Kai_Dietrich,
15:32:27 <Zakim> ... SeanP, jsmanrique, jo
15:33:38 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:33:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:46:24 <yeliz> yeliz has left #bpwg
16:11:01 <abel> abel has left #bpwg
16:16:07 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
16:16:07 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-bpwg-actions.rdf :
16:16:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Bryan to send initial comments on Widget Requirements [1]
16:16:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-bpwg-irc#T14-47-56
16:16:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kai to check on discussion of mobileOK pertinent issues in POWDER [2]
16:16:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-bpwg-irc#T15-09-23
16:16:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: daoust to arrange the funeral of Techniques [3]
16:16:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/03-bpwg-irc#T15-27-26-1