13:43:25 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:43:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-xhtml-irc
13:43:44 rmerric has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0078.html
13:43:44 OedipusWrecked has joined #xhtml
13:43:54 Zakim, list
13:43:54 I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM, XML_SMLWG()3:00AM, XML_XSLWG()3:00AM active
13:43:56 also scheduled at this time are IA_XHTML2()9:45AM, XML_QueryWG()3:00AM
13:44:10 Zakim, this will be XHTML2
13:44:10 ok, rmerric; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:44:39 Roland has joined #xhtml
13:45:13 Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:45:22 Chair: Roland
13:45:30 Regrets: Yam
13:45:35 IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:45:42 +ShaneM
13:46:08 +Roland
13:46:35 + +04670855aaaa
13:47:06 Zakim, aaaa is Tina
13:47:06 +Tina; got it
13:47:15 +??P7
13:47:39 +??P8
13:47:41 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0078.html
13:47:56 Zakim, P7 is Yam
13:47:56 sorry, Roland, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
13:48:00 yamx has joined #xhtml
13:48:06 zakim, ??p8 is Alessio
13:48:06 +Alessio; got it
13:48:21 zakim, ??p7 is yam
13:48:21 +yam; got it
13:48:22 Zakim, ??P7 is Yam
13:48:23 I already had ??P7 as yam, Roland
13:50:13 zakim, dial steven-617
13:50:13 ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:50:15 +Steven
13:50:18 Script: ShaneM
13:50:24 Scribe: ShaneM
13:50:48 Topic: XML Base last call
13:50:58 Roland sent in a last call comment so this is done.
13:51:09 Topic: XHR Comment
13:51:34 We sent in a response to which we got a reply, but we were unclear on whether it was official or not. Steven has an action to follow up.
13:51:55 He has sent a follow up and we await a reply.
13:52:09 response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0085.html
13:53:17 Topic: XHTML Basic 1.1
13:53:35 Transitioned to PR. Voting is ongoing. Remember to tell your AC rep to vote!
13:54:22 alessio has joined #xhtml
13:54:43 OMA has a meeting and will formally disband the mobile browser effort after completion of 2.4.
13:55:36 +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:55:37 Note there is a discussion in www-html mailing list about @style and deprecation.
13:55:46 Topic: XHTML M12N 1.1
13:56:40 SM: HenryT did some RelaxNG work - put together document - on drafts page and in agenda
13:57:07 XHTML Modularization for RelaxNG : http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-m12n-relaxng-20080604/
13:57:08 SM: think we can just do this - nothing stopping us; but should do as separate document or see if way to do PER on M12n
13:57:35 SM: to avoid recycling, have to go through peer review for methodology for defining RelaxNG module
13:57:47 SM: once field comments, just roll in
13:57:56 SP: James?
13:58:12 SM: yes, JamesC, not HenryT
13:58:45 rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
13:58:53 SM: contacted him and few others about this privaately - haven't heard back from james, but others said "good idea, we support you" let us know when you are done; should actively solicit james' formal participation
13:58:59 rrsagent, make log public
13:59:04 scribeNick+ OedipusWrecked
13:59:22 SM: grammar straightforward
13:59:27 SP: use James' techniques
13:59:37 SM: updated to be more consistent for model defined for XML Schema
14:00:30 SP: ChrisL, main lead until now, will shortly move to a "technical director" at w3c
14:00:45 s/main lead/domain lead/
14:00:45 SP: Phillipe Le Hegeret replacing Chris as main lead
14:01:00 SP: ChrisL asked "why not Relax?"
14:01:04 SM: SVG said same
14:01:15 SP: Chris strong SVG background
14:01:26 SP: thanks shane - amazing stuff
14:01:34 SM: have infrastructure so not too hard to do
14:01:49 SP: not strictly speaking chartered to do this - have to ensure doesn't cause us grief
14:01:53 SM: good point
14:02:11 RM: pieces fall together into 1.2 and RelaxNG - address at same time
14:02:13 -yam
14:02:26 SP: new version of M12n mentioned in charter
14:02:42 RM: new version of M12n - set priorities of work
14:02:58 time to shift to another call, my apology...
14:03:02 TOPIC: Future Meetings
14:03:10 questionnaire: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0058.html
14:03:19 RM: SP created a questionnaire about availability of particiapants for phone calls this summer
14:03:29 (summer in northern hemisphere, at least)
14:03:54 (3 have replied to date)
14:04:01 RM: push XHTML and HTML5 discussion until next week
14:04:48 RM: didn't like HTML WG response, asked to collaborate on wording - would someone like to propose that verbiage on list?
14:04:53 SP: initial straw-man?
14:04:59 RM: yes, so we can discuss
14:05:32 SP: will have a look --
14:06:00 RM: thanks - try and solve problem on list and discuss at future call
14:06:08 TOPIC: Action Item Review
14:06:37 RM: CURIE syntax - resolved at f2f to take to CR; Steven took action to transition request
14:06:47 SP: have incomplete transition req; will send this week
14:07:05 SM: didn't we want to coordinate with Role req to LC
14:07:09 RM: resolved at f2f?
14:07:20 SM: on agenda for today, because made updates during F2F
14:07:35 SM: if WG happy with Role, then should do both reqs at same time
14:07:49 TOPIC: Preparing Role for Last Call
14:07:56 rrsagent, make minutes
14:07:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-xhtml-minutes.html OedipusWrecked
14:08:12 s/Preparing Role for Last Call/Preparing Role for CR
14:08:18 SP: don't have new draft up yet
14:08:24 RM: put on next week's agenda, then
14:08:32 SP: go ahead with CURIEs transition req?
14:08:35 RM: yes
14:08:39 SM: yes - not coupled
14:09:24 TOPIC: XML Events 2
14:09:36 RM: shane sent out new draft last week and updated yesterday
14:09:51 RM: comment from XForms WG
14:10:01 RM: comment we had solicited a while ago
14:10:20 RM: comments on draft from WG members and those from XForms WG
14:10:31 RM: any comments to make on new XML Events 2 draft?
14:10:31 link?
14:10:57 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20080624/
14:11:50 SM: diff against last editor's draft;
14:12:11 SP: draft in XHTML+RDFa
14:12:19 s/SP: draft/SM: draft
14:12:49 SM: handful of triples, but opportunity to demonstrate pub rule change WG notified about by SP on list and to prove XHTML languages work
14:13:05 SP: appendix A.4 - missing module; same for D.4
14:13:40 GJR: notes that Open Accessibility (http://a11y.org) moving to XHTML+RDFa for its specs (http://a11y.org/specs
14:14:18 great news, gregory
14:14:22 zakim, who is noisy?
14:14:32 Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tina (9%)
14:14:36 SM: ModuleName-revision-type - we created XML Script Module, but part of XML 2 - Events model is 2; created handlers as 2 - would like advice of WG
14:14:47 SM: are they dash 2 or dash 1
14:15:25 RM: Handlers module and Script module - interested in feature level; first version of Handler feature module
14:15:28 SM: think i agree
14:15:47 SM: name should be XML Handlers 1?
14:15:55 SM: will effect change and update document
14:16:26 RM: need to get questions out about Handlers
14:16:30 SM: do we have an answer
14:16:35 RM: should before go forward
14:16:45 SM: agree - just wondering if anyone knew answer
14:16:56 RM: Event listeners when registered as listener for event
14:17:03 SM: ok
14:17:13 RM: don't register events, but listeners
14:17:28 SM: did MarkB send regrets?
14:17:42 SP: didn't but haven't seen him around all day
14:18:01 RM: when get processed is straightforward
14:18:29 SP: not sure what the questtion is: registered listeners for events
14:18:35 RM: when does that take place?
14:19:03 RM: for ListenerAction would be whatever action is - same with remove event; for Listener element that would be when document is loaded?
14:19:28 SP: has to happen before event "load" - want to catch load event, so needs to be fired before "load"
14:19:43 SP: XML Model Ready Event from XForms can be loaded
14:19:53 SM: Model Ready similar to DOM Ready
14:20:04 SM: new WebAPI draft defines DOM Ready as real state
14:20:19 SP: DOM Ready in XML Events as well? send event?
14:20:22 SM: yes
14:20:58 SP: prefer to ask implementors their opinion - quite a number of implementors of XML Events - what have they done what do they think is achievable
14:21:06 RM: when it happens
14:21:34 SP: another question: if modify DOM and change some part of registration of listener, should that change happen - are attributes "live" or should they not be
14:21:40 RM: personally, think "live"
14:22:11 SP: reason for uncertainty - if doing scripting anyway, most direct way of doing it would be to unregister and register events via scripting - if can do in scripting, why do in events
14:22:44 RM: too many assumptions - may reuse script written by 3rd party, and write the markup that is included
14:23:10 SP: if intention of script is to register or deregister certain listeners for events, easier to just do directly using DOM API rather than messing with DOM of document
14:23:43 RM: if have double fragment of markup wiht declarative event handler, but no script, just XML Events and Handlers, if that pulled in by script needs to check code?
14:23:46 SP: not sure
14:24:05 SP: think would make XML Events harder to implement
14:24:20 SM: question in document and go to LC, or solicit implementors advice first
14:24:29 SP: advice first - solicit from Forms WG first
14:25:42 ACTION: ShaneM - solicit advice from Forms WG on registration and deregistration of listeners and handlers
14:25:50 rrsagent, make minutes
14:25:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-xhtml-minutes.html OedipusWrecked
14:26:26 TOPIC: New Comments Received Since Agenda Pushed
14:26:48 RM: new version of XML Schema - Last Call for XSD 1.1 -- asked to review that
14:27:04 SP: considering M12n, don't think have much connection
14:27:18 SM: right, but like to try to get MarkB's take on this
14:27:26 s/connection/option
14:27:43 RM: test water with MarkB, Shane - will put on agenda for next week
14:28:10 RM: another late request from David Orchard about TAG finding - would like our thoughts on that, too
14:28:15 Proposed Final Review of W3C TAG Finding "Passwords in the Clear"
14:28:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0083.html
14:28:46 RM: anyone any idea why should take a pass at this?
14:28:58 RM: Last Call courtesy?
14:29:05 SM: yep
14:29:12 RM: anyone fancy taking a look at this?
14:29:18 SM: i'd be happy to
14:29:45 It's 2 pages long
14:29:51 TH: passwords in clear - confused by it
14:30:05 TH: not clear
14:30:25 RM: 2 sets of feedback would be good if TH wants to add to SM's comment
14:30:48 TH: document to comment on - last good practice suggestion contains a SHOULD rather than MUST - makes me shiver
14:31:17 SM: does seem odd at first impression - let's talk offline TH
14:31:19 RM: good
14:31:37 RM: feedback on Access from DougS as person
14:32:00 RM: GJR supposed to solicit feedback from UbiWeb;
14:32:22 SP: nick of XForms said "looks fine" but not official response - checking to see if on agenda for Forms call today
14:32:43 GJR: sent request to UbiWeb, UAWG, and DougS, who replied as individual
14:32:53 SP: discussion is on Forms agenda
14:33:37 GJR: need to ask UbiWeb chairs directly
14:33:54 RM: include Dave Raggett
14:33:57 GJR: yep
14:34:02 TOPIC: RDFa
14:34:18 -Alessio
14:34:41 alessio has joined #xhtml
14:34:52 SP: heads-up to what's happening: BBC (uses microformats) announced not going to use HCalendar because of accessibility issues, so looking into using RDFa instaead - just happened a few days ago
14:34:58 +??P0
14:35:04 zakim, ??P0 is Alessio
14:35:06 +Alessio; got it
14:35:23 SP: MarkB trying to use to draw microformats people into our fold - all trying to do same thing and RDFa may be the solution - let's work together
14:35:35 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml
14:36:03 RM: use other microformats
14:36:12 SP: only HCal being dropped
14:36:38 SM: when using geostuff do you use in context of ICal?
14:36:49 RM: don't use calendar
14:37:10 RM: if sorted out with GoogleCalendar and iCal, might consider
14:37:49 TOPIC: XHTML 1.1 Second Edition and XHTML2
14:37:57 RM: as we have modularization moved forward, what is our plan
14:38:05 RM: did we get difinitive response from Ruby?
14:38:35 SM: XHTML 1.1 draft put up for discussion today includes Schema of Ruby module
14:38:40 RM: update in draft?
14:38:46 SM: thought i sent email
14:39:23 SM: at f2f last week, decided 1.1 should be adding Schema and errata so i produced such a document - ready to go to PER, but dependent upon M12n, so need M12n to finish process
14:39:37 SP: M12n can walk one step behind - think we are good to go
14:39:40 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml11-20080624/
14:39:48 RM: XHTML 1.1 Second Edition
14:40:03 SM: new version posted 24 june 2008
14:40:33 SM: sent notification
14:40:42 RM: mail gremlins, perhaps
14:41:26 SM: summarize changes: took out input attribute module; included shema implementation of Ruby model; changed conformance def so doctype is a MAY (done in M12n anyway)
14:41:42 s/shema/schema
14:41:53 RM: point of waiting until M12n goes through?
14:41:58 SM: can advance it now
14:42:06 GJR: plus 1
14:42:12 RM: let's get it off table
14:42:40 Proposed Resolution Move XHTML 1.1 Second Edition to PER
14:42:52 Lachy has joined #xhtml
14:43:17 TH: not a problem but can someone explain issue
14:43:59 SM: core of issue is doctype means DTD to some people; requiring use of doctype in view of some, including TBL)
14:44:20 SM: portability guidance: always use a doctype - it is how UAs know what to do
14:44:41 RM: chapter of changes from XHTML 1.0 Strict, would allowing RDFa not be a change?
14:45:04 RM: in 1.1 SE, there is a changes from XHTML 1.0 Strict - should we mention RDFa?
14:45:13 SM: XHTML 1.0 doesn't do anything with RDFa
14:45:29 SM: change conformance definition?
14:45:38 RM: what does it mean to say changed doctype
14:45:48 SM: didn't change doctype - changed a MAY to a SHOULD
14:46:07 TH: without doctype, how will authors encourage identifying markup language and version
14:46:32 TH: that's what doctype is for - a label stating this is the markup language and version used in this docment - doesn't that argue for a MUST?
14:46:36 Lachy has joined #xhtml
14:46:42 SM: Schema asked us to change MUST to SHOULD
14:46:53 The start tag SHOULD contain a version attribute that declares the version of XHTML in use. The version of this version of XHTML is -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN.
14:47:24 SM: use @version - that's way to announce version of language in document that is portable
14:47:39 TH: not requiring doctype for conformance for first time since HTML Wilbur (3.2)
14:47:57 SP: TBL says doctypes are an old technology; seems anti-doctype
14:48:09 SP: no other technology that gives one character entities
14:48:34 TH: forgetting that doctype just a label, not a technology - could point to schema, but need doctype to refer to grammar
14:48:56 SP: particular document may satisfy more than one doctype - may not want to commit to Basic if also support 1.1
14:49:00 Alessio: understand
14:49:13 RM: what string to use for particular version?
14:49:26 SM: conformance clause pasted into IRC previously
14:49:36 SM: used values in DTD from 2000
14:49:50 SP: system identifier might make some in TAG happier
14:49:57 SM: didn't change - for future
14:50:24