IRC log of bpwg on 2008-06-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:45:57 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #bpwg

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-bpwg-irc

13:45:59 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:45:59 [Zakim]

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13:46:01 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

13:46:01 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

13:46:02 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:46:02 [trackbot]

Date: 25 June 2008

13:46:20 [dom]

s/Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group/BPWG checker task force/

13:50:02 [dom]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2008Jun/0018.html

13:50:05 [dom]

Chair: Abel

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13:58:39 [dom]

zakim, code?

13:58:39 [Zakim]

the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom

13:59:06 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM has now started

13:59:14 [Zakim]

+berrueta

13:59:21 [abel]

zakim, berrueta is me

13:59:21 [Zakim]

+abel; got it

13:59:30 [abel]

zakim, miguel is with me

13:59:30 [Zakim]

+miguel; got it

14:00:01 [Zakim]

+Dom

14:00:40 [Zakim]

+ +95169aaaa

14:00:47 [francois]

zakim, aaaa is me

14:00:47 [Zakim]

+francois; got it

14:01:59 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5006 bug 5006 "Does a "tidied" element or attribute exist? "

14:02:34 [dom]

abel: the goal of this was to inform the user whether the test was run on a tidied version of the document or not

14:02:38 [dom]

... but that's not required by mobileOK

14:02:42 [dom]

... so it's up to us to decide

14:03:26 [dom]

dom: I think we should move it as "enhancement" and re-assign it

14:03:31 [dom]

... I'll take it

14:03:37 [dom]

abel: sounds good

14:05:32 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5015 bug 5015 Need working example for accessing line number in XSL

14:06:06 [dom]

abel: in Java, we can access the line number

14:06:14 [dom]

... but that's not available in XSLT

14:06:28 [dom]

... since it doesn't work on a DOM tree

14:06:38 [dom]

... I don't think we can do much about it

14:07:28 [francois]

http://saxonica.com/documentation/extensions/functions/linenumber.html

14:07:34 [dom]

dom: I think Saxon has an extension to get the line number

14:07:45 [dom]

... but it didn't work when Roland tried, as far as I remember

14:07:55 [dom]

... let's close it for now and see if we have time for this in the future

14:07:57 [dom]

abel: agreed

14:08:47 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5421 bug 5421 URI resolution doesn't take <base href> into account

14:09:20 [dom]

abel: does this still need more work?

14:09:39 [dom]

dom: the Java code is OK - remains to check that this works correctly for XSLT

14:10:10 [dom]

abel: we have checked the Java code and it is indeed fixed

14:10:20 [dom]

... but what happens when there is more than one base tag?

14:11:11 [dom]

dom: I think using the first <base> is ok

14:11:18 [dom]

..; (nothing that more than one <base> is not valid)

14:13:06 [dom]

... I still need to look at the some of the XSLT cases where further URI resolution is needed

14:13:32 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5590 bug 5590 Record more detail about source of an image/object retrieval

14:13:46 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5774 bug 5574 Object Rule Processing

14:13:59 [dom]

abel: we're not sure about 5590

14:14:15 [dom]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2008Jun/0005.html Dom's message re 5590

14:14:34 [dom]

abel: from what we understand, we need to annotate the objects that are really rendered in moki

14:14:56 [dom]

... not sure about having to annotate whether images come from style sheets

14:18:30 [dom]

dom: [trying to summarize his message]

14:18:57 [dom]

miguel: we think it would be better if we filter objects and images that are tasted or rendered in the moki

14:20:00 [dom]

<objectInfo rendered="false" tasted="true" />

14:21:04 [dom]

<object data="foo.png"><img src="foo.gif" /></object>

14:22:01 [dom]

<object data="foo.png" type="image/png"><img src="foo.gif" /></object>

14:22:31 [francois]

q+ to ask for clarification about "rendered eq false and tasted eq false"

14:22:39 [dom]

ack f

14:22:39 [Zakim]

francois, you wanted to ask for clarification about "rendered eq false and tasted eq false"

14:23:22 [dom]

loadtype="tasted" loadtype="rendered"

14:23:26 [dom]

loadtype="tasted" vs loadtype="rendered"

14:24:02 [dom]

http://www.w3.org/TR/mobileOK-basic10-tests/#PAGE_SIZE_LIMIT reads "In the following, include in the total only those objects retrieved under the 3.15.1 Object Element Processing Rule whose type attribute is not specified, and those whose content type is either "image/jpeg" or "image/gif" irrespective of whether the type attribute is specified. "

14:25:27 [dom]

dom: I have implemented in XSLT - doable with XPath, more difficult through the DOM AFAICT

14:25:57 [dom]

[detection of tasted in XSLT: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2007/mobileok-ref/src/org/w3c/mwi/mobileok/basic/xslt/includedResources.xsl ]

14:26:07 [dom]

[detection of rendered: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2007/mobileok-ref/src/org/w3c/mwi/mobileok/basic/xslt/ObjectsOrScriptTest.xsl ]

14:26:54 [dom]

dom: any idea about schedule on this bug?

14:27:04 [dom]

abel: we're targeting mid-July, right?

14:27:40 [dom]

... we'll start working on this beginning of next week - hopefully we can finish it in ~10 days

14:27:51 [dom]

... if you guys can help with some of the other bugs, it would be great

14:28:03 [dom]

... esp. with 5775 grammar validation

14:29:01 [dom]

dom: sounds good; francois and I will try to tackle 5775

14:29:32 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5591 Handling of Meta Refresh

14:30:07 [dom]

abel: think we should close it

14:30:34 [dom]

dom: probably more part of UI than library

14:30:42 [dom]

... I'll take it and move it to the Web UI component

14:31:04 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5762 Media rules check in linked CSS (StylesheetUseTest)

14:31:30 [dom]

Abel: I think we need to review better the StylesheetUse test

14:31:58 [dom]

Miguel: that test tries to check that at least one style sheet is used for handheld devices

14:32:19 [dom]

... in the XSLT, we check the media attribute of the <link> tag

14:32:48 [dom]

... but we don't check the content of the style sheet

14:33:07 [dom]

dom: so, if the entire style sheet is enclosed in @media screen { }, the checker won't notice anything

14:33:46 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/mobileOK-basic10-tests/#STYLE_SHEETS_USE "If all styles are restricted to media types other than "handheld" or "all" by means of @media at-rules, warn "

14:34:11 [dom]

... indeed, the mobileOK spec says we should warn on this

14:34:25 [dom]

... so yes, I agree we should be checking this as well

14:34:53 [dom]

miguel: so we need to change the preprocessor and the XSLT

14:34:59 [dom]

... we'll be dealing with it

14:35:44 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5763 xml-stylesheet processing instructions

14:36:41 [dom]

abel: this one requires changes to the Java code too

14:37:34 [dom]

... we'll take that one too - hopefully won't take too long

14:37:49 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5764 i18n

14:38:08 [dom]

abel: we can do the Spanish translations, you guys could do the French one

14:38:17 [dom]

... but obviously, this has a lower priority

14:38:43 [dom]

dom: indeed; but let's leave it for after the release

14:38:51 [dom]

-> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5765 documentation

14:38:55 [dom]

abel: same for that one

14:39:06 [francois]

[I would add that having more semantics in the info returned by the checker should also have more priority than i18n IMO]

14:39:06 [dom]

... hopefully there isn't that much work to do on that one

14:40:27 [dom]

dom: let's meet next week

14:40:28 [dom]

abel: ok

14:40:43 [dom]

abel: what about the vodafone's contributor?

14:40:59 [dom]

... I got a mail from Oscar last week

14:41:21 [dom]

... I gave him information about our ongoing work, but I didn't get a response

14:42:25 [dom]

dom: dan confirmed that he was allowed to work, and nominated him to the group

14:42:35 [dom]

... ping him again by email, and copy francois and I, maybe?

14:42:36 [francois]

[I will contact him as well to have him subscribe to the mailing-list]

14:42:43 [dom]

abel: ok, will do and inform him of our call next week

14:43:10 [francois]

q+

14:43:21 [dom]

ack f

14:43:57 [dom]

q+

14:44:09 [dom]

ack me

14:44:26 [dom]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2008Jun/0012.html

14:44:52 [dom]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2008Jun/0010.html

14:45:51 [dom]

LANG=C

14:49:00 [dom]

[discussions on getting the test suite to work]

14:49:32 [dom]

dom: I think there must be a bug in the preprocessor

14:49:43 [dom]

... the length of the content detected shouldn't vary from a platform to another

14:50:03 [dom]

... (typically, this oculd make a page fail on Windows and gets a mobileOK on linux - which doesn't make sense)

14:50:25 [francois]

s/oculd/could

14:50:51 [dom]

miguel: the problem is not in the preprocessor, but in tomcat

14:51:26 [dom]

dom: ok, I hadn't understood this

14:51:44 [dom]

... do you know whether we can configure tomcat not to behave differently?

14:52:11 [dom]

miguel: it's related to line-return vs carriage return characters

14:52:48 [dom]

... we can check if removing carriage return characters help

14:53:19 [dom]

s/line-return/line-feed/

14:53:56 [dom]

dom: ok... would still be good to fix at some point, but I can guess we can live with it for the time being

14:54:26 [Zakim]

-Dom

14:54:28 [Zakim]

-francois

14:54:30 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM has ended

14:54:31 [Zakim]

Attendees were abel, miguel, Dom, +95169aaaa, francois

14:54:36 [dom]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:54:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-bpwg-minutes.html dom

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