IRC log of bpwg on 2008-06-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:45:57 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
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logging to
13:45:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:45:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:46:01 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:46:01 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
13:46:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:46:02 [trackbot]
Date: 25 June 2008
13:46:20 [dom]
s/Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group/BPWG checker task force/
13:50:02 [dom]
13:50:05 [dom]
Chair: Abel
13:57:05 [abel]
abel has joined #bpwg
13:58:39 [dom]
zakim, code?
13:58:39 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), dom
13:59:06 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM has now started
13:59:14 [Zakim]
13:59:21 [abel]
zakim, berrueta is me
13:59:21 [Zakim]
+abel; got it
13:59:30 [abel]
zakim, miguel is with me
13:59:30 [Zakim]
+miguel; got it
14:00:01 [Zakim]
14:00:40 [Zakim]
+ +95169aaaa
14:00:47 [francois]
zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:47 [Zakim]
+francois; got it
14:01:59 [dom]
-> bug 5006 "Does a "tidied" element or attribute exist? "
14:02:34 [dom]
abel: the goal of this was to inform the user whether the test was run on a tidied version of the document or not
14:02:38 [dom]
... but that's not required by mobileOK
14:02:42 [dom]
... so it's up to us to decide
14:03:26 [dom]
dom: I think we should move it as "enhancement" and re-assign it
14:03:31 [dom]
... I'll take it
14:03:37 [dom]
abel: sounds good
14:05:32 [dom]
-> bug 5015 Need working example for accessing line number in XSL
14:06:06 [dom]
abel: in Java, we can access the line number
14:06:14 [dom]
... but that's not available in XSLT
14:06:28 [dom]
... since it doesn't work on a DOM tree
14:06:38 [dom]
... I don't think we can do much about it
14:07:28 [francois]
14:07:34 [dom]
dom: I think Saxon has an extension to get the line number
14:07:45 [dom]
... but it didn't work when Roland tried, as far as I remember
14:07:55 [dom]
... let's close it for now and see if we have time for this in the future
14:07:57 [dom]
abel: agreed
14:08:47 [dom]
-> bug 5421 URI resolution doesn't take <base href> into account
14:09:20 [dom]
abel: does this still need more work?
14:09:39 [dom]
dom: the Java code is OK - remains to check that this works correctly for XSLT
14:10:10 [dom]
abel: we have checked the Java code and it is indeed fixed
14:10:20 [dom]
... but what happens when there is more than one base tag?
14:11:11 [dom]
dom: I think using the first <base> is ok
14:11:18 [dom]
..; (nothing that more than one <base> is not valid)
14:13:06 [dom]
... I still need to look at the some of the XSLT cases where further URI resolution is needed
14:13:32 [dom]
-> bug 5590 Record more detail about source of an image/object retrieval
14:13:46 [dom]
-> bug 5574 Object Rule Processing
14:13:59 [dom]
abel: we're not sure about 5590
14:14:15 [dom]
-> Dom's message re 5590
14:14:34 [dom]
abel: from what we understand, we need to annotate the objects that are really rendered in moki
14:14:56 [dom]
... not sure about having to annotate whether images come from style sheets
14:18:30 [dom]
dom: [trying to summarize his message]
14:18:57 [dom]
miguel: we think it would be better if we filter objects and images that are tasted or rendered in the moki
14:20:00 [dom]
<objectInfo rendered="false" tasted="true" />
14:21:04 [dom]
<object data="foo.png"><img src="foo.gif" /></object>
14:22:01 [dom]
<object data="foo.png" type="image/png"><img src="foo.gif" /></object>
14:22:31 [francois]
q+ to ask for clarification about "rendered eq false and tasted eq false"
14:22:39 [dom]
ack f
14:22:39 [Zakim]
francois, you wanted to ask for clarification about "rendered eq false and tasted eq false"
14:23:22 [dom]
loadtype="tasted" loadtype="rendered"
14:23:26 [dom]
loadtype="tasted" vs loadtype="rendered"
14:24:02 [dom] reads "In the following, include in the total only those objects retrieved under the 3.15.1 Object Element Processing Rule whose type attribute is not specified, and those whose content type is either "image/jpeg" or "image/gif" irrespective of whether the type attribute is specified. "
14:25:27 [dom]
dom: I have implemented in XSLT - doable with XPath, more difficult through the DOM AFAICT
14:25:57 [dom]
[detection of tasted in XSLT: ]
14:26:07 [dom]
[detection of rendered: ]
14:26:54 [dom]
dom: any idea about schedule on this bug?
14:27:04 [dom]
abel: we're targeting mid-July, right?
14:27:40 [dom]
... we'll start working on this beginning of next week - hopefully we can finish it in ~10 days
14:27:51 [dom]
... if you guys can help with some of the other bugs, it would be great
14:28:03 [dom]
... esp. with 5775 grammar validation
14:29:01 [dom]
dom: sounds good; francois and I will try to tackle 5775
14:29:32 [dom]
-> Handling of Meta Refresh
14:30:07 [dom]
abel: think we should close it
14:30:34 [dom]
dom: probably more part of UI than library
14:30:42 [dom]
... I'll take it and move it to the Web UI component
14:31:04 [dom]
-> Media rules check in linked CSS (StylesheetUseTest)
14:31:30 [dom]
Abel: I think we need to review better the StylesheetUse test
14:31:58 [dom]
Miguel: that test tries to check that at least one style sheet is used for handheld devices
14:32:19 [dom]
... in the XSLT, we check the media attribute of the <link> tag
14:32:48 [dom]
... but we don't check the content of the style sheet
14:33:07 [dom]
dom: so, if the entire style sheet is enclosed in @media screen { }, the checker won't notice anything
14:33:46 [dom]
-> "If all styles are restricted to media types other than "handheld" or "all" by means of @media at-rules, warn "
14:34:11 [dom]
... indeed, the mobileOK spec says we should warn on this
14:34:25 [dom]
... so yes, I agree we should be checking this as well
14:34:53 [dom]
miguel: so we need to change the preprocessor and the XSLT
14:34:59 [dom]
... we'll be dealing with it
14:35:44 [dom]
-> xml-stylesheet processing instructions
14:36:41 [dom]
abel: this one requires changes to the Java code too
14:37:34 [dom]
... we'll take that one too - hopefully won't take too long
14:37:49 [dom]
-> i18n
14:38:08 [dom]
abel: we can do the Spanish translations, you guys could do the French one
14:38:17 [dom]
... but obviously, this has a lower priority
14:38:43 [dom]
dom: indeed; but let's leave it for after the release
14:38:51 [dom]
-> documentation
14:38:55 [dom]
abel: same for that one
14:39:06 [francois]
[I would add that having more semantics in the info returned by the checker should also have more priority than i18n IMO]
14:39:06 [dom]
... hopefully there isn't that much work to do on that one
14:40:27 [dom]
dom: let's meet next week
14:40:28 [dom]
abel: ok
14:40:43 [dom]
abel: what about the vodafone's contributor?
14:40:59 [dom]
... I got a mail from Oscar last week
14:41:21 [dom]
... I gave him information about our ongoing work, but I didn't get a response
14:42:25 [dom]
dom: dan confirmed that he was allowed to work, and nominated him to the group
14:42:35 [dom]
... ping him again by email, and copy francois and I, maybe?
14:42:36 [francois]
[I will contact him as well to have him subscribe to the mailing-list]
14:42:43 [dom]
abel: ok, will do and inform him of our call next week
14:43:10 [francois]
14:43:21 [dom]
ack f
14:43:57 [dom]
14:44:09 [dom]
ack me
14:44:26 [dom]
14:44:52 [dom]
14:45:51 [dom]
14:49:00 [dom]
[discussions on getting the test suite to work]
14:49:32 [dom]
dom: I think there must be a bug in the preprocessor
14:49:43 [dom]
... the length of the content detected shouldn't vary from a platform to another
14:50:03 [dom]
... (typically, this oculd make a page fail on Windows and gets a mobileOK on linux - which doesn't make sense)
14:50:25 [francois]
14:50:51 [dom]
miguel: the problem is not in the preprocessor, but in tomcat
14:51:26 [dom]
dom: ok, I hadn't understood this
14:51:44 [dom]
... do you know whether we can configure tomcat not to behave differently?
14:52:11 [dom]
miguel: it's related to line-return vs carriage return characters
14:52:48 [dom]
... we can check if removing carriage return characters help
14:53:19 [dom]
14:53:56 [dom]
dom: ok... would still be good to fix at some point, but I can guess we can live with it for the time being
14:54:26 [Zakim]
14:54:28 [Zakim]
14:54:30 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM has ended
14:54:31 [Zakim]
Attendees were abel, miguel, Dom, +95169aaaa, francois
14:54:36 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:54:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dom
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