15:58:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #soap-jms
15:58:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-soap-jms-irc
15:58:33 <RolandMerrick> RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Jun/0024.html
15:58:59 <RolandMerrick> Zakim, list
15:58:59 <Zakim> I see SW_RIF()11:00AM, SW_HCLS(Bio-Ont WG)11:00AM, SW_SWD()11:00AM, WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM, INC_RWAB()11:00AM active
15:59:01 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are SW_DAWG()10:30AM, MWI_TSWG()11:00AM, WAI_PFWG()11:30AM, XML_QueryWG()3:00AM, SW_HCLS(Chairs)12:00PM, XML_XSLWG()3:00AM, WS_SAWSDL()12:00PM,
15:59:03 <Zakim> ... XML_SMLWG()3:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM
15:59:13 <RolandMerrick> Zakim, this will be SOAP-JM
15:59:13 <Zakim> ok, RolandMerrick, I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM already started
15:59:15 <Yves> trackbot, start telcon
15:59:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SJMS
15:59:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:20 <trackbot> Meeting: SOAP-JMS Binding Working Group Teleconference
15:59:20 <trackbot> Date: 24 June 2008
16:00:54 <RolandMerrick> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Jun/0024.html
16:01:15 <Roland> Roland has joined #soap-jms
16:01:34 <Roland> Chair: Roland
16:01:59 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-soap-jms-minutes.html Roland
16:02:09 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public
16:03:22 <Phil> Roland, FYI... I will miss the 7/8 call due to vacation
16:04:58 <Roland> Zakim, aaaa is Roland
16:04:58 <Zakim> +Roland; got it
16:05:10 <Roland> Zakim, IBM is Phil
16:05:10 <Zakim> +Phil; got it
16:06:08 <Zakim> +[TIBCO]
16:06:36 <Roland> Zakim, TIBCO is Eric
16:06:36 <Zakim> +Eric; got it
16:07:03 <eric> eric has joined #soap-jms
16:08:09 <Roland> Regrets: Peter
16:09:43 <Zakim> + +1.919.742.aabb
16:10:37 <alewis> alewis has joined #soap-jms
16:10:39 <Zakim> + +0196270aacc
16:10:43 <Roland> Zakim, aabb is alewis
16:10:43 <Zakim> +alewis; got it
16:11:54 <Zakim> +[Sun]
16:11:58 <markphillips> markphillips has joined #soap-jms
16:12:07 <Roland> Zakim, aacc is markphillips
16:12:07 <Zakim> +markphillips; got it
16:12:19 <Roland> Zakim, Sun is Bhakti
16:12:19 <Zakim> +Bhakti; got it
16:12:56 <Roland> Scribe: markphillips
16:13:00 <Yves> Scribe: Mark
16:13:07 <Yves> Scribenick: markphillips
16:13:21 <markphillips> chair: Roland
16:13:50 <markphillips> TOPIC: Testing 
16:14:15 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Jun/0018.html
16:15:14 <markphillips> Amy sent the above  testing summary to the list
16:19:14 <markphillips> - two approaches to test framework 
16:19:17 <markphillips> - "opposite side" where we implement the sending or receiving partner of a message exchange
16:19:41 <markphillips> - or an SPI layer which intecepts requests and validates them
16:21:14 <markphillips> There is no agreement on this - other that to say that the way applications interact with JAX-RPX is out of scope of the tests
16:21:34 <markphillips> s/JAX-RPX/JAX-WS
16:23:48 <markphillips> Alternatively we could require that the vendors provide some way to dump the messages
16:24:07 <markphillips> There is more agreement on how messages are validated (with Relax-NG)
16:24:44 <markphillips> - this seems a useful place to start because all paths agree on this
16:25:48 <alewis> maybe we should build on this?
16:25:49 <alewis> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-soap12-testcollection-20070427/
16:26:20 <markphillips> The inputs into the test are the URI parameters, the WSDL parameters, and the Message content
16:26:33 <Yves> well, the easiest, the best, as the tests are here...
16:28:38 <markphillips> Mark: have we covered testing the message exchange patterns WRT sequence of messages ?
16:29:00 <alewis> yves: it tests assertions in soap.  that won't necessarily test assertions in soap/jms.  so we would at least be required to supplement the tests; we could take that set of tests as a starting point, or a foundation, perhaps.
16:29:15 <markphillips> Eric: One way is easy - the message arrives or not.  For req-resp we have to write tests for both sides of the exchange.
16:29:26 <Yves> yes, I meant that it's already a base for parts of what we want to tests
16:29:40 <markphillips> Roland: We have to check that the correct JMS headers arrive.
16:30:26 <markphillips> Phil: Don't forget that the message is not necessarily just a SOAP envelope - may contain attachments
16:30:50 <markphillips> TOPIC:  Review of the Specification
16:30:58 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2008Jun/att-0015/00-part
16:31:08 <markphillips> Peter suggested a number of changes at the above message
16:31:25 <markphillips> Eric captured Peter's work and augmented it
16:32:35 <bhakti> bhakti has joined #soap-jms
16:32:50 <markphillips> TOPIC: Content Questions
16:32:59 <Roland> Section 1.1: Do we want to specify actual JMS calls?  While we don't want to make the specific calls mandatory, we could require the equivalent. 
16:34:35 <markphillips> Eric: We could define *a* way but not *the* way - if we do this it should not be normative
16:36:05 <markphillips> ...and we should do it using the API because there is no standard model for processing below the JMS API
16:41:46 <markphillips> Section 2.2.2 and 2.2.3 would be the right place to put an example of how to use the API.
16:42:41 <markphillips> e.g. "message.setJMSDeliveryMode(DeliveryMode.PERSISTENT);"
16:45:10 <markphillips> Phil: This would involve a lot of duplication for the generic (string properties etc.)  It would not be too bad for the JMS message header properties (like DeliveryMode above)
16:46:03 <markphillips> Action: Phil to write a proposal of the text that should appear in each section of the spec.
16:46:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - Write a proposal of the text that should appear in each section of the spec. [on Phil Adams - due 2008-07-01].
16:46:07 <Roland> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/ws/soapjms/soapjms.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#introduction-background
16:46:54 <markphillips> Section 1.5: What do we really mean by "MUST fully support the JMS IRI [sic] scheme"?  That is, should we should we spell out "support" in this context?  (If I recall correctly, I take blame for the weak wording here - sorry.)
16:47:31 <Roland> now 1.6 http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/ws/soapjms/soapjms.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#introduction-conformance
16:48:23 <markphillips> Eric: We don't say what we mean.  Does every "MUST" in the URI scheme equate to something which MUST be supported in the binding spec?  
16:49:31 <markphillips> Action: Eric to investigate and fix where necessary
16:49:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Investigate and fix where necessary [on Eric Johnson - due 2008-07-01].
16:49:45 <Roland> Section 2.2.2: Do we mandate that property "replyToName" is only used for a two-way MEP? 
16:50:35 <markphillips> s/Investigate/Investigate abiguity about "MUST fully support the JMS IRI"
16:51:24 <markphillips> Roland: in 2.6 it should say you MUST use it and in 2.7 it should say you MUST NOT use it
16:52:11 <markphillips> Action: Roland to add text to say in sction 2.6 you MUST use replyToName and in 2.7 it should say you MUST NOT use it
16:52:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-14 - Add text to say in sction 2.6 you MUST use replyToName and in 2.7 it should say you MUST NOT use it [on Roland Merrick - due 2008-07-01].
16:53:47 <markphillips> Phil: That will enforce it at runtime, but is it an error to use replyToName in the URI or WSDL for a one-way MEP?
16:55:29 <markphillips> TOPIC: Face-to-face meeting
16:55:57 <markphillips> Roland: Does anyone have any views on the value of a F2F to scope testing?  
16:56:29 <markphillips> Eric: For testing it will be implementation focussed and that should be months away 
16:56:45 <markphillips> Roland: Agreed - we would not do this before September
16:56:46 <Yves> roland, see http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/Overview.html
16:57:31 <markphillips> Roland: We should continue discussion on the spec updates via the mailing list
16:58:21 <Zakim> -Eric
16:58:23 <Zakim> -Phil
16:58:24 <Zakim> -alewis
16:58:24 <Zakim> -Bhakti
16:58:25 <Zakim> -Yves
16:58:27 <Zakim> -markphillips
16:58:31 <Zakim> -Roland
16:58:33 <Zakim> WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has ended
16:58:35 <Zakim> Attendees were +0138687aaaa, Yves, Roland, Phil, Eric, +1.919.742.aabb, +0196270aacc, alewis, markphillips, Bhakti
16:58:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-soap-jms-minutes.html Yves
16:59:19 <markphillips> ACTION-13 = Investigate abiguity about "MUST fully support the JMS IRI" and fix where necessary
16:59:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-soap-jms-minutes.html Yves
16:59:59 <markphillips> ACTION-12 = Write a proposal of the JMS API text that should appear in each section of the spec.
17:09:25 <Roland> Roland has left #soap-jms
18:37:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #soap-jms