IRC log of rif on 2008-06-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:20:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:20:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-rif-irc
14:20:48 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:20:48 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
14:21:07 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 24-Jun-08
14:21:14 [ChrisW]
Chair: Christian de Sainte-Marie
14:21:38 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jun/0130.html
14:21:49 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 24 June Telecon Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jun/0130.html
14:22:10 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:22:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:22:23 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:22:27 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:22:31 [ChrisW]
agenda+ F2F11
14:22:37 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Action review
14:22:48 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Casting (Issue-61)
14:22:54 [ChrisW]
agenda+ PRD
14:23:02 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Publication Plan
14:23:06 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:25:51 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:51:36 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
14:55:06 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:56:08 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Equal syntax
14:57:30 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
15:01:05 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:01:11 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:01:18 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:01:18 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:01:24 [ChrisW]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:01:24 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:01:29 [ChrisW]
where is everyone?
15:01:32 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:01:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:01:49 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: change editor of all documents to ChrisW
15:02:05 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:02:07 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: change working group name to Chris WG
15:02:21 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:02:21 [Zakim]
+??P26
15:02:29 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:02:31 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:02:38 [ChrisW]
all resolutions passed
15:02:46 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:02:47 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:03:48 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, josb
15:04:30 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
15:04:54 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
15:05:09 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:05:15 [ChrisW]
Scribe: DaveReynolds
15:05:30 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:05:32 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jun/att-0128/2008-06-17-rif-minutes.html
15:05:33 [DaveReynolds]
ScribeNick: DaveReynolds
15:05:39 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: accept last weeks minutes
15:05:54 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: accept last weeks minutes
15:05:57 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
15:06:17 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:06:17 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:06:34 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?"
15:06:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone?"', ChrisW
15:06:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, josb, Gary_Hallmark, Mike_Dean
15:06:44 [markproctor]
markproctor has joined #rif
15:06:46 [Zakim]
+Christian
15:06:57 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:06:57 [Zakim]
sorry, csma, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:07:10 [csma]
zakim, christian is me
15:07:16 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:07:40 [Zakim]
+ +49.351.463.4.aaaa
15:07:57 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: Received message from Mismo re a serialization format
15:08:02 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:08:14 [AxelPolleres]
Apologies, had trouble with my phone...
15:08:16 [AxelPolleres]
dialing.
15:08:21 [Zakim]
+Mark_Proctor
15:08:46 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:08:47 [AdrianP]
Zakim, aaaa is me
15:08:47 [Zakim]
+AdrianP; got it
15:08:48 [DaveReynolds]
Christian: referring to the Atom syndication format
15:08:55 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:08:55 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:09:05 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: not clear how it relates to us
15:09:37 [Zakim]
+??P22
15:10:06 [DaveReynolds]
Christian: MISMO's current assumption is that they will extend RIF but waiting for PRD and stable BLD, also looking at multiple other possibilities
15:11:21 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:11:26 [Zakim]
+Michael_Kifer
15:11:27 [DaveReynolds]
Christian: Initially used to PR style, but when looked at BLD realized they do have need for things like integrity rules
15:11:32 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:11:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, josb, Gary_Hallmark, Mike_Dean, csma, AdrianP (muted), Mark_Proctor, AxelPolleres, Michael_Kifer
15:11:35 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:11:35 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:11:37 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
15:11:37 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
15:11:44 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:11:44 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:12:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:12:02 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "F2F11" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:12:05 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
15:12:05 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
15:12:08 [DaveReynolds]
Adrian: liason to HCLSG, meeting on Thursday
15:12:24 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f11dates/
15:12:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.212.781.aabb
15:12:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, aabb is me
15:12:58 [Zakim]
+LeoraMorgenstern; got it
15:13:10 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: some results in but need answers, ideally today, from others especially editors
15:13:28 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:13:28 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:13:59 [DaveReynolds]
Current surviving date is 26/27 Sep (Fri/Sat0)
15:14:15 [DaveReynolds]
s/Sat0/Sat/
15:14:31 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: sounds like our provisional date
15:14:49 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: seems to be a preference for NY over Cambridge
15:15:57 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:15:57 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Action review" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:16:50 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:16:51 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:16:54 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
15:17:15 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:17:15 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:17:23 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:17:24 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-532 complete
15:17:32 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-531 complete
15:17:49 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-529 pending discussion
15:18:46 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-527 done
15:19:44 [AxelPolleres]
yes!@
15:19:56 [AxelPolleres]
DTB doesn't talk about BASE
15:20:07 [AxelPolleres]
I assumed this to be in BLD.
15:20:22 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:20:22 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:20:56 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:20:56 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:21:03 [DaveReynolds]
Discussion on action-526, action to put explanation in DTB re: URI base directive, syntax is in BLD already
15:21:07 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
15:21:07 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should no longer be muted
15:21:09 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:21:30 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:21:30 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:21:36 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: not clear why this relates to DTB
15:21:50 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:21:50 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:22:05 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: other abbreviations fitted in here because they related to constants and symbol spaces
15:22:20 [DaveReynolds]
Michael: this also relates to constants
15:23:24 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:23:24 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:23:50 [ChrisW]
action: axel to add explaination of relative IRIs wrt base directive to DTB shortcuts
15:23:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-533 - Add explaination of relative IRIs wrt base directive to DTB shortcuts [on Axel Polleres - due 2008-07-01].
15:24:14 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-526 now complete
15:24:14 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:24:14 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:24:15 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
15:24:16 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should now be muted
15:24:19 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:24:19 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:24:21 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:24:21 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:24:35 [Harold]
Axel, "While there is a RIF-BLD element tag for the Import directive, there are none for the Prefix and Base directives (they are represented directly in the underlying XML).
15:24:35 [Harold]
"
15:24:50 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:24:50 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:25:05 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-522 complete
15:25:43 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
15:25:43 [Zakim]
AxelPolleres should no longer be muted
15:26:27 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-521 continued, Jie sent a message to the wg (though not everyone recalls seeing this)
15:27:01 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-518 complete
15:27:11 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:27:11 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:27:12 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:27:12 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:27:59 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:27:59 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:28:07 [DaveReynolds]
Michael: FLD just need schema from Harold
15:28:26 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:28:26 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
15:28:39 [DaveReynolds]
Harold: finish BLD first, working on metadata and identifiers, aim for deadline of Friday
15:29:38 [ChrisW]
action: chris to create f2f11 wiki page
15:29:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-534 - Create f2f11 wiki page [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-07-01].
15:29:57 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-515 completed
15:30:50 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: status of DTB - acted on comments from Jos and Harold. Wherever didn't reach agreement marked as editor note.
15:31:23 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: only thing left is the action today (URI base and relative URIs) plus the action with the OWL-WG
15:31:33 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: these aren't needed for WD
15:31:49 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: so just update the description of shortcuts
15:32:25 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: casting, rif:iri to/from string, there is now a strawman in there
15:32:37 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: and there is an editors note linking this to issue-61
15:32:51 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-487 complete
15:33:57 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
15:33:57 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
15:33:58 [Harold]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Alphabet_of_RIF-BLD
15:34:51 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: BLD has been updated (see Harold link) to just have list of datatypes
15:36:08 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: point is that DTB in the long run will include new datatypes which are not automatically added to BLD
15:36:30 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: so same story for predicates and functions, where are those going to be listed?
15:37:33 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: want the BLD/DTB document relation to be easy to maintain. So BLD picks datatypes and DTB lists all the required predicates and functions for the selected datatypes.
15:38:03 [DaveReynolds]
Michael: just refer to the DTB section rather than name each predicate/function separately.
15:38:45 [Harold]
If BLD refers to (sub)sections of DTB, then of course the version/date of DTB needs to be noted in BLD.
15:39:05 [GaryHallmark]
q+ to ask about adding string comparison predicates
15:39:11 [Harold]
(DTBs (sub)sections could change.)
15:39:36 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: issue is ease of maintenance over time.
15:41:03 [DaveReynolds]
Michael: add sections, not add functions to sections.
15:41:47 [AxelPolleres]
I don't understand "The alternative is [...] to do as we do it now." ...
15:41:57 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: can add to list of datatypes but not functions and predicates for already defined datatypes.
15:42:40 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: BLD refers to particular versions of DTB and lists any exceptions?
15:44:29 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: easiest thing would be for BLD to list the DTB sections.
15:45:02 [josb]
+1 BLD document should indeed say which builtins it requires
15:45:21 [josb]
(+1 was to Axel's suggestion)
15:45:34 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: organize the relation via the datatypes, the set of predicates and functions for a particular datatype is frozen
15:46:10 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: so when BLD goes to LC those fn and preds in DTB are frozen from then on
15:46:33 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: organize by section for each dialect makes DTB unmaintainable as the dialects increase
15:46:39 [josb]
builtins may be defined for multiple datatypes
15:47:36 [GaryHallmark]
string comparison predicates need work before you freeze anything!
15:47:53 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: so just add "and all associated builtin fns and preds"
15:48:09 [DaveReynolds]
Michael: issue that "associated", "mentioned" are not precise enough
15:48:25 [josb]
numerics are not on one particular datatype!
15:48:43 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: consider compare on strings, that returns an integer, so there are cross dependencies on datatypes
15:48:59 [GaryHallmark]
we should change string compare to work like numeric compare and date compare
15:49:03 [josb]
q+
15:49:46 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:49:46 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:49:59 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:49:59 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:50:33 [DaveReynolds]
Gary: tangentially the string, numeric and date comparison operators should all work the same
15:51:39 [DaveReynolds]
Jos: don't think it is possible to categorize the builtins by datatype e.g. casts, numeric functions
15:52:35 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: or could have DTB have an appendix defining particular profiles
15:53:13 [DaveReynolds]
Michael: have dialects support all of DTB
15:53:51 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: some dialects could restrict the list, e.g. Core might be all of DTB minus specific exceptions
15:54:17 [ChrisW]
q?
15:54:19 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:54:20 [ChrisW]
ack josb
15:54:20 [AdrianP]
+1 for Michael
15:54:28 [csma]
ack gary
15:54:28 [Zakim]
GaryHallmark, you wanted to ask about adding string comparison predicates
15:54:30 [josb]
Michael's suggestion works for me
15:55:44 [ChrisW]
f2f10 resolution: RESOLVED: DTB will provide the menu of datatypes and builtins which dialects can use, by reference, when they state which datatypes and builtins must be supported by implementations.
15:55:58 [DaveReynolds]
q-
15:57:34 [josb]
yes, the reference needs to be dated!
15:58:28 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: idea is that BLD will reference a specific dated version of DTB and the entire set of datatypes and builtin fns and predicates in that version?
15:58:44 [josb]
use date, not version number
15:59:29 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: normally would refer by date but if we want to allow non-significant editorial changes then would have to make up some version numbering scheme
15:59:42 [josb]
q+
15:59:58 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: alt is tp explicitly list all of this in an appendix in the dialect, that would reduce DTB maintenance overhead
16:00:07 [DaveReynolds]
s/tp/to/
16:00:29 [ChrisW]
ack jos
16:01:05 [Harold]
We could cross-refer between RIF docs using (date-containing!) URLs such as http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-rif-ucr-20060710/
16:01:51 [DaveReynolds]
Jos: why not use dates?
16:02:33 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: want to be able to make changes to DTB which don't affect the list of builtins with breaking the list from BLD
16:02:45 [DaveReynolds]
s/list/link/
16:02:52 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:02:52 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:03:31 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: while BLD is in last call DTB will go through a couple of revisions, impact of that is unclear
16:04:19 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: decision at f2f was that DTB is a catalog, the dialect selects from DTB as a menu.
16:05:18 [csma]
q+
16:05:31 [DaveReynolds]
Gary: in practice all dialects are likely to share all datatypes
16:05:55 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: the point is to not change BLD while it is in last call
16:06:58 [csma]
boolean
16:07:55 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: need some stability here
16:08:24 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: solution here is to have named profiles of datatypes and builtins, the dialects reference the profiles
16:09:37 [Zakim]
-Mark_Proctor
16:11:12 [sandro]
Chris: We are trying to allow DTB to be change after freezing BLD.
16:12:13 [csma]
q-
16:12:15 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: make changes in DTB in a separate document
16:12:16 [Harold]
We could distinguish a 'basic DTB' part which can be frozen along with BLD Last Call. Then BLD needs to refer only to that basic DTB part. Both could later co-evolve.
16:12:23 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: so that DTB is just DTB for BLD
16:12:23 [sandro]
Axel: Let's freeze DTB as DTB-FOR-BLD. if PRD wants something else, it has to define its diff from this.
16:12:43 [Harold]
q+
16:12:53 [AdrianP]
q?
16:13:43 [csma]
that is usable, but that makes DTB much less useful
16:13:45 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: so proposal is that DTB is frozen as BLD is frozen, any changes needed to DTB are made elsewhere
16:13:55 [sandro]
Axel's Proposal == DTB gets frozen at the same time at BLD, we can't change DTB going forward. If you need something different, you have to do a reference-with-diffs.
16:14:18 [DaveReynolds]
Harold: see IRC comment
16:14:31 [AxelPolleres]
Harold, that is the same as listing all the preds and funcs from DTB which BLD is using explicitly.
16:14:32 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: that's basically Sandro's named profile proposal
16:14:44 [AxelPolleres]
I see no problem with that either.
16:15:09 [sandro]
Sandro's Proposal == DTB includes in an appendex a Frozen "Profile #1" which is the set of datatypes and builtings that BLD uses.
16:15:57 [csma]
q+
16:16:16 [csma]
ack csma
16:16:30 [AdrianP]
spliting into several places where builtins and datatypes are defined would make it very hard for the user to use RIF
16:16:36 [DaveReynolds]
Harold: less happy with current proposal where deltas go in the dialect document, dilutes the use of DTB (and FLD) be a unifying force across the dialects
16:16:37 [AxelPolleres]
I assume that core has less.
16:16:50 [AdrianP]
it might also lead to a maintenance problem if RIF grows and we have many dialects
16:16:52 [DaveReynolds]
Christian: the unifying force is core
16:17:14 [DaveReynolds]
Gary: are there specific datatypes currently in DTB which would not go in core?
16:18:06 [DaveReynolds]
Christian: don't see reason it should be different, but don't see a reason to freeze DTB wrt to BLD, if freeze it should be wrt Core
16:18:15 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:18:15 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:18:15 [sandro]
<sandro> Sandro's Proposal == DTB includes in an appendex a Frozen "Profile #1" which is the set of datatypes and builtings that BLD uses.
16:18:22 [AxelPolleres]
E.g.: if core is only datalog, then I don't see much need for built-ins to be in Core.
16:18:30 [MichaelKifer]
q+
16:18:44 [GaryHallmark]
I note that nobody offered an example of a DTB datatype that would not be in Core
16:18:52 [Harold]
DTB can play the role of a "unifying force" pulling together all of the RIF dialects. This should not be given up just to simplify cross-referencing between RIF docs. See Sandro's Proposal and my one above.
16:19:34 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: why define the profile in DTB, why not just list in appendix in the dialect document.
16:19:49 [DaveReynolds]
Sandro: because the profile may be shared, putting it in DTB enables that
16:20:52 [DaveReynolds]
Axel: so in that case let the other dialects say it uses the same datatypes and builtins as BLD
16:21:03 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:21:03 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:21:23 [sandro]
PROPOSAL-3: BLD includes a frozen list of datatypes+builtings, and any dialect which wants to use it, can refer to it there (instead of a named profile in DTB)
16:21:44 [DaveReynolds]
Michael: object to putting big appendix in the dialects
16:22:03 [AxelPolleres]
Ad "Michael and Axel have to negotiate who does the work": Micheal... let's just say Harold does it! ;-) just kiddin', Harold.
16:22:42 [AxelPolleres]
I do not object to any of the two, I am fine with freezing DTB and also fine with explicitly enumerating preds and funcs in BLD.
16:22:48 [sandro]
PROPOSAL-4: BLD refers to DTB by dated version.
16:23:04 [Harold]
Axel, it's more a matter of avoiding redundancy to simplify maintenance.
16:23:05 [AxelPolleres]
I only object to adding additional "profiles" to DTB.
16:23:08 [AdrianP]
maintenance is a problem, e.g. in BLD rif:text is marked at risk in PRD it is not
16:23:11 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:23:11 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:23:15 [csma]
can you repeat proposal 1 and 2
16:23:43 [sandro]
PROPOSAL-4: BLD refers to DTB by dated version. (if dialects need other things, they refer to new dated versions. BLD still refers to old one)
16:23:57 [sandro]
PROPOSAL-1 (Axel's Proposal) == DTB gets frozen at the same time at BLD, we can't change DTB going forward. If you need something different, you have to do a reference-with-diffs.
16:24:13 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:24:13 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:24:19 [sandro]
PROPOSAL-2 (Sandro's Proposal )== DTB includes in an appendex a Frozen "Profile #1" which is the set of datatypes and builtings that BLD uses.
16:24:26 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:24:26 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:24:47 [sandro]
PROPOSAL-4: BLD refers to DTB by version (date or number). (if dialects need other things, they refer to new dated versions. BLD still refers to old one)
16:24:52 [AdrianP]
Zakim, unmute me
16:24:52 [Zakim]
AdrianP should no longer be muted
16:25:09 [csma]
q?
16:25:11 [josb]
date
16:25:14 [sandro]
number
16:25:17 [AxelPolleres]
number
16:25:17 [MichaelKifer]
0
16:25:17 [mdean]
date
16:25:21 [GaryHallmark]
number
16:25:22 [AdrianP]
number
16:25:23 [csma]
number
16:25:51 [mdean]
should't it be by version URI?
16:25:56 [sandro]
PROPOSED: BLD refers to DTB by version number. If/when dialects need other things, they refer to new versions. BLD still refers to old one.
16:25:59 [mdean]
... for the published document?
16:26:04 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
16:26:04 [Zakim]
AdrianP should now be muted
16:26:13 [AxelPolleres]
ok, DTB was just renamed to "RIF Data Types and Built-Ins 1.0"
16:26:54 [AxelPolleres]
yes, new versions are new documents.
16:27:17 [GaryHallmark]
so, Axel, can you add string-not-equals, etc.???
16:27:27 [AdrianP]
+1
16:27:29 [josb]
+1
16:27:30 [AxelPolleres]
It is marked with an Editor's note.
16:27:32 [DaveReynolds]
0
16:27:33 [LeoraMorgenstern]
+1
16:27:34 [GaryHallmark]
+1
16:27:35 [ChrisW]
0
16:27:36 [mdean]
0
16:27:40 [AxelPolleres]
we have to discuss it.
16:27:42 [AxelPolleres]
+1
16:27:42 [sandro]
+0 nervous about it but I don't see a real problem
16:27:48 [Harold]
0
16:27:50 [sandro]
RESOLVED: BLD refers to DTB by version number. If/when dialects need other things, they refer to new versions. BLD still refers to old one.
16:28:03 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:28:03 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:28:05 [Zakim]
4. Action review [from ChrisW]
16:28:06 [Zakim]
5. Casting (Issue-61) [from ChrisW]
16:28:06 [Zakim]
6. PRD [from ChrisW]
16:28:07 [Zakim]
7. Publication Plan [from ChrisW]
16:28:07 [Zakim]
8. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:28:08 [Zakim]
9. Equal syntax [from ChrisW]
16:28:08 [csma]
ack csma
16:28:22 [Harold]
q-
16:29:17 [DaveReynolds]
Finishing action review (!) ACTION-482 is now changed to reflect this further change to the role
16:29:24 [MichaelKifer]
q-
16:29:28 [DaveReynolds]
s/role/role of DTB/
16:29:46 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:29:46 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:30:01 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-482 complete
16:30:14 [AdrianP]
can we use the versioning mechanism to refer to all other RIF documents?
16:30:40 [Harold]
Lots of wiggle room for 1.0 :-)
16:30:49 [sandro]
+1 extend
16:30:56 [Harold]
+1
16:31:00 [AxelPolleres]
+1
16:31:01 [csma]
+1
16:32:20 [csma]
what about action 484 (sorry if I insist)?
16:32:39 [Harold]
A little bit of wiggle room can help us to co-evolove the two specs.
16:33:45 [Zakim]
-AdrianP
16:33:53 [GaryHallmark]
BTW I created ISSUE-67 to track the string-less-than issue
16:34:40 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:34:40 [Zakim]
csma was not muted, csma
16:34:47 [DaveReynolds]
[Non scribe] Humm that sounded like proposal 1 !
16:35:18 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-505 closed
16:35:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-505 Come up with style for "At Risk" comments in document. closed
16:36:29 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-500 pending discussion
16:36:46 [Adrian]
Adrian has joined #rif
16:36:46 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-498 closed
16:36:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-498 Add text explaining external frames closed
16:36:57 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-498 pending discussion
16:37:08 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-506 pending discussion
16:37:16 [DaveReynolds]
ACTION-502 closed
16:37:16 [trackbot]
ACTION-502 Put relative IRI handling, with base directive, in BLD closed
16:37:45 [Harold]
I think we should also add the version number to BLD 1.0 so people can see that BLD 1.0 and DTB 1.0 are in sync.
16:38:29 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: don't expect the dialects to change
16:38:29 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:38:29 [Zakim]
Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:39:34 [DaveReynolds]
ChrisW: FLD less clear but the changes we could imagine are unlikely to change the dialect defn
16:39:43 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:39:45 [Zakim]
-Michael_Kifer
16:39:47 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
16:39:47 [Zakim]
-josb
16:39:48 [Zakim]
-LeoraMorgenstern
16:40:01 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:40:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Mike_Dean, csma, AxelPolleres
16:40:02 [ChrisW]
Regrets: JosDeBruijn, Sandro Hawke, Hassan Aït-Kaci MohamedZergaoui
16:40:05 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
16:40:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:40:06 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, josb, Harold, Gary_Hallmark, Mike_Dean, csma, +49.351.463.4.aaaa, Mark_Proctor, AdrianP, AxelPolleres,
16:40:10 [Zakim]
... Michael_Kifer, +1.212.781.aabb, LeoraMorgenstern
16:40:11 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
16:40:13 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:40:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:40:18 [josb]
no regrets from me!
16:40:27 [AxelPolleres]
External frames are not supported in DTB though... anyway.
16:40:31 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:40:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, csma
16:40:38 [Zakim]
-DaveReynolds
16:41:06 [AxelPolleres]
(that was re:ACTION-498)
16:41:09 [AxelPolleres]
bye
16:41:26 [Adrian]
bye
16:42:55 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:42:57 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:42:58 [Zakim]
-csma
16:43:00 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:43:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, josb, Harold, Gary_Hallmark, Mike_Dean, csma, +49.351.463.4.aaaa, Mark_Proctor, AdrianP, AxelPolleres, Michael_Kifer, +1.212.781.aabb,
16:43:04 [Zakim]
... LeoraMorgenstern
16:44:50 [csma]
csma has left #rif