IRC log of bpwg on 2008-06-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:13 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:59:13 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:59:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:59:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:59:17 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:18 [trackbot]
Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:59:18 [trackbot]
Date: 24 June 2008
13:59:30 [francois]
13:59:34 [francois]
Chair: francois
13:59:53 [hgerlach]
hgerlach has joined #bpwg
14:00:31 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM has now started
14:00:37 [Zakim]
14:00:56 [Pontus]
Pontus has joined #bpwg
14:01:14 [jo]
zakim, code?
14:01:14 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
14:01:29 [rob]
rob has joined #bpwg
14:01:30 [Zakim]
+ +049211aaaa
14:01:34 [Zakim]
14:01:59 [Zakim]
+ +0208995aabb
14:02:10 [jo]
zakim, aabb is me
14:02:11 [andrews]
andrews has joined #bpwg
14:02:13 [Zakim]
+ +0207287aacc
14:02:13 [hgerlach]
Hi Guys, I saw you did a great job while the F2F - Thanks a lot
14:02:21 [francois]
zakim, aaaa is me
14:02:25 [Zakim]
+jo; got it
14:02:25 [rob]
zakim, aacc is me
14:02:31 [Zakim]
+francois; got it
14:02:37 [Zakim]
+rob; got it
14:03:14 [francois]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:17 [jo]
zakim, ??P19 is heiko
14:03:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Francois, francois, ??P19, jo, rob
14:03:28 [Zakim]
+heiko; got it
14:03:56 [Zakim]
+ +0789972aadd
14:03:56 [francois]
zakim, francois is really Pontus
14:03:58 [Zakim]
sorry, francois, I do not recognize a party named 'francois'
14:04:09 [francois]
zakim, aadd is andrews
14:04:09 [Zakim]
+andrews; got it
14:04:12 [jo]
zakim, aadd is andrews
14:04:12 [Zakim]
sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
14:04:31 [francois]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:04:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Francois, francois, heiko, jo, rob, andrews
14:04:34 [jo]
zakim, Francois is really pontus
14:04:34 [Zakim]
sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'Francois'
14:05:25 [jo]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:05:29 [Pontus]
zakim, mute me
14:05:29 [Zakim]
sorry, Pontus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:05:35 [Zakim]
jo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: andrews (31%), heiko (31%), francois (9%), jo (15%)
14:05:49 [jo]
zakim, mute heiko
14:05:49 [Zakim]
heiko should now be muted
14:05:54 [SeanP]
SeanP has joined #bpwg
14:06:01 [jo]
zakim, mute andrews
14:06:02 [Zakim]
andrews should now be muted
14:06:14 [jo]
zakim, silence is golden
14:06:14 [Zakim]
sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'silence'
14:06:43 [Zakim]
+ +1.630.414.aaee
14:06:51 [SeanP]
zakim, aaee is me
14:06:51 [Zakim]
+SeanP; got it
14:07:07 [jo]
scribe: Jo
14:08:07 [jo]
Topic: Summary from F2F
14:08:31 [jo]
francois: a great deal of progress - spent whole day of first day on it
14:08:39 [jo]
... want to summarise the progress
14:08:48 [jo]
... as listed in the agenda
14:09:08 [jo]
... 1) we are going to make the doc normative, means rechartering the group
14:09:41 [jo]
... 2) "extensive" discussion about link element and decided to re-introduce "link to self"
14:10:41 [jo]
... we discussed the semantics of link element and resolved a convention to disambiguate the two senses of link element viz "I am" vs "I can be" mobile friendly
14:11:10 [jo]
... 3) we decided to rewrite sect 4.1.2 as "proxy treatment of HTTP request"
14:11:27 [jo]
... 4) use of OPTIONS was relegated to "scope for future work"
14:12:04 [jo]
... 5) we remain silent on whether a CT proxy should be mobileOK and whether it may/should leave mobileOK content alone
14:12:36 [jo]
... 6) we are not going to discuss "session" but discuss "Web site" and leave the term undefined
14:13:27 [jo]
... don't have to do content tasting on all resources of a Web site but should be done when following a link to a new Web site
14:13:53 [jo]
... 7) no difference between proxies that do URI rewriting and those that don't
14:14:04 [jo]
... hence URI rewriting proxies are in scope
14:14:46 [jo]
.... 8) we're going to move the requirements to Scope and remove the ones we could not meet into scope for future work
14:15:13 [jo]
... 9) so now we are left with persistent expression of user preferences
14:15:34 [jo]
... as the remaining outstanding issue
14:15:35 [francois]
14:15:40 [hgerlach]
AI 261?
14:15:42 [jo]
... any questions or comments?
14:16:28 [jo]
heiko: ref ISSUE-261, I mentioned that I would like to have an allow list
14:16:44 [jo]
francois: allow and disallow list is part of the remaining issue
14:17:53 [jo]
heiko: [@@ scribe could not hear]
14:18:13 [jo]
francois: we will come back to allow and disallow list as part of the discussion of this issue
14:18:36 [francois]
-> minutes F2F day on CT
14:18:41 [jo]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:18:48 [jo]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:18:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate jo
14:19:58 [jo]
Topic: ACTION-769
14:20:02 [francois]
14:20:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-769 -- Fran├žois Daoust to ping Soonho on providing feedback -- due 2008-06-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:20:02 [trackbot]
14:20:22 [francois]
Close ACTION-769
14:20:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-769 Ping Soonho on providing feedback closed
14:20:25 [jo]
14:20:33 [francois]
14:20:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-711 -- Soonho Lee to provide Feedback on Content Transformation Document -- due 2008-03-13 -- OPEN
14:20:33 [trackbot]
14:21:09 [francois]
ACTION: daoust to see with Soonho if he can find someone else to provide feedback on the document
14:21:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-804 - See with Soonho if he can find someone else to provide feedback on the document [on Fran├žois Daoust - due 2008-07-01].
14:21:10 [jo]
francois: soonho has moved to a new job, so can't do it
14:21:22 [jo]
jo: how about findign someone else to pick it up?
14:21:32 [jo]
14:21:47 [jo]
Topic: ISSUE-242
14:22:05 [jo]
francois: we started discussing this at the F2F but we ran out of time and were totally knackered
14:22:20 [jo]
14:22:48 [jo]
... we decided that it's permissible to ask for a restructured version on a site by site basis
14:23:19 [jo]
... if there is a blanker user preference, if there are multiple representations then the CT proxy should tell the user
14:24:07 [jo]
... we clarified that a CT proxy where there is an arrangement with the server this is out of scope of the guidelines, it counts as adaptation
14:24:45 [jo]
... the no-transform directive means that a redirect is needed
14:25:09 [jo]
... @@@ could not quite keep up, referenced in agenda
14:25:43 [jo]
francois: I want to know if we agree on the goal of addressing section 3.2 "Control of the behavior of the proxy"
14:26:04 [jo]
... the idea is to integrate this section in the rest of the document
14:26:30 [jo]
... and it addresses Sean's point as to clarifying where user control ...
14:26:42 [andrews]
14:26:55 [francois]
ack jo
14:27:20 [andrews]
Zarkim, unmute me
14:27:36 [andrews]
Zakim, unmute me
14:27:36 [Zakim]
andrews should no longer be muted
14:29:18 [jo]
jo: I think that we should have a new draft before considering this in detail
14:29:26 [francois]
ack andrews
14:29:41 [jo]
... enough of the document has changed to make it difficult to see how this all pans out without doing htis
14:30:46 [jo]
... unfortuantely I am not going to get to this for a little while as I have to do a draft of BP and one of mobileOK as top priority to meet the 15 July timeframe for major announcement of BP work
14:31:21 [jo]
francois: ref discussion last week, then we may be able to integrate more clearly where control takes effect
14:31:54 [jo]
... and indicate quite clearly where control takes effect
14:32:06 [SeanP]
14:32:10 [jo]
[above in answer to a question from Andrews requesting clarification]
14:32:31 [francois]
ack SeanP
14:32:32 [jo]
francois: I think we should continue discussion of the issue on the mailing list
14:32:53 [jo]
seanP: I agree I am a bit confused now too and am fine with doing it this way
14:33:22 [jo]
francois: this includes allow and disallow lists in its reference to administrative arrangements
14:33:33 [hgerlach]
14:33:48 [jo]
... in answer to Heiko's earlier question, so we should wait for the updated draft
14:34:06 [jo]
... and I am willing to do all the work, Jo, don't worry
14:34:19 [jo]
[scribe may not have heard the last properly :)]
14:34:56 [jo]
francois: not sure I made that commitment, Jo
14:35:08 [jo]
... any other issues we can take on today's call?
14:35:40 [jo]
[no comments]
14:35:40 [hgerlach]
14:35:49 [jo]
francois: so let's close the call now
14:35:54 [francois]
ack hgerlach
14:36:08 [jo]
heiko: do we have a time line, colleagues are asking
14:37:06 [jo]
francois: the main issue is that the BP doc is going to rec, and there is other stuff like the mobileOK doc that also needs refreshing and those docs have priority over ct because they are about to make major rec track transitions
14:37:36 [jo]
... so basically we are waiting for Jo, and if no one has a comment at that point then we will publish a LCWD and see what people say
14:38:08 [jo]
14:38:12 [francois]
ack jo
14:38:19 [hgerlach]
14:39:49 [francois]
jo: content transformation summit event is informally planned for September in London, and we hope to be in Candidate Recommendation by then, or at the very least still in Last Call
14:40:31 [jo]
jo: hope to have something in next few weeks
14:40:43 [jo]
francois: OK then let's adjourn
14:40:54 [Zakim]
14:40:59 [Zakim]
14:41:07 [Zakim]
14:41:09 [jo]
zakim, drop me
14:41:09 [Zakim]
jo is being disconnected
14:41:11 [Zakim]
14:41:16 [Zakim]
14:41:19 [Zakim]
14:41:25 [SeanP]
14:41:30 [Zakim]
14:41:31 [Zakim]
MWI_BPWG(CTTF)10:00AM has ended
14:41:32 [Zakim]
Attendees were Francois, +049211aaaa, +0208995aabb, +0207287aacc, jo, rob, heiko, +0789972aadd, andrews, +1.630.414.aaee, SeanP
14:41:39 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:41:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate francois
14:41:43 [rob]
rob has left #bpwg
14:56:29 [francois]
RRSAgent, bye
14:56:29 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
14:56:29 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: daoust to see with Soonho if he can find someone else to provide feedback on the document [1]
14:56:29 [RRSAgent]
recorded in