13:48:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #emotion
13:48:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-emotion-irc
13:48:07 <marc> zakim, list conferences
13:48:07 <Zakim> I see IA_XHTML2()4:00AM active
13:48:08 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are UW_UWA()9:00AM, Team_Global(review)8:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, INC_EMOXG()10:00AM, Team_(arch)13:15Z, MWI_BPWG()10:00AM, Math_IG()10:00AM
13:48:22 <marc> zakim, this will be INC_EMOXG
13:48:22 <Zakim> ok, marc; I see INC_EMOXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:49:01 <marc> agenda+ Time of future meetings
13:49:07 <marc> agenda+ XML vs. OWL
13:49:21 <marc> agenda+ Starting from existing languages
13:49:35 <marc> agenda+ Principles that should guide spec writing
13:49:44 <marc> agenda+ Procedure
13:49:53 <marc> agenda+ Face-to-Face in Cannes
13:49:57 <marc> zakim, list agenda
13:49:57 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
13:49:59 <Zakim> 1. Time of future meetings [from marc]
13:50:01 <Zakim> 2. XML vs. OWL [from marc]
13:50:02 <Zakim> 3. Starting from existing languages [from marc]
13:50:03 <Zakim> 4. Principles that should guide spec writing [from marc]
13:50:04 <Zakim> 5. Procedure [from marc]
13:50:04 <Zakim> 6. Face-to-Face in Cannes [from marc]
13:52:05 <IanWilson> hi marc
13:55:41 <vircuser> vircuser has joined #emotion
13:55:52 <Zakim> INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has now started
13:55:54 <vircuser> exit
13:55:59 <Zakim> +Rinke
13:56:09 <vircuser> vircuser has left #emotion
13:56:10 <marc> zakim, I am Rinke
13:56:10 <Zakim> ok, marc, I now associate you with Rinke
13:56:17 <marc> zakim, who is there?
13:56:17 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, marc.
13:56:24 <marc> zakim, who is here?
13:56:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rinke
13:56:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, IanWilson, Myriam, trackbot
13:56:31 <felix> felix has joined #emotion
13:56:42 <felix> hello
13:57:07 <marc> hi!
13:57:17 <IanWilson> hello felix
13:57:48 <marc> could you guys start joining the phone conf?
13:58:13 <marc> it's boring talking just to myself... ;-)
13:58:34 <Idoia> Idoia has joined #emotion
13:58:35 <Zakim> +Felix_Burkhardt
13:58:56 <Idoia> hi all!
13:59:51 <felix> zakim, I am Felix_Burkhardt
13:59:51 <Zakim> ok, felix, I now associate you with Felix_Burkhardt
14:00:24 <Nestor> Nestor has joined #emotion
14:00:26 <Zakim> +??P4
14:00:45 <marc> zakim, P4 is Ian
14:00:45 <Zakim> sorry, marc, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'
14:00:54 <marc> zakim, Ian is P4
14:00:54 <Zakim> sorry, marc, I do not recognize a party named 'Ian'
14:00:56 <Zakim> + +39.011.291.aaaa
14:01:13 <marc> zakim, ??P4 is Ian
14:01:13 <Zakim> +Ian; got it
14:01:43 <marc> zakim, aaaa is Enrico
14:01:43 <Zakim> +Enrico; got it
14:02:10 <Zakim> +Andy_Breen
14:02:34 <enrico> enrico has joined #emotion
14:03:12 <Zakim> + +1.512.567.aabb
14:03:41 <marc> zakim, aabb is Bill
14:03:41 <Zakim> +Bill; got it
14:03:43 <Zakim> + +39.63.aacc
14:03:52 <marc> zakim, aacc is Catherine
14:03:52 <Zakim> +Catherine; got it
14:04:46 <Idoia> Idoia has joined #emotion
14:05:02 <marc> Hi all, please also join the phone conference
14:05:45 <IanWilson> ouch
14:06:26 <marc> zakim, who is here?
14:06:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rinke, Felix_Burkhardt, Ian, Enrico, Andy_Breen, Bill, Catherine
14:06:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see Idoia, enrico, felix, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, IanWilson, Myriam, trackbot
14:07:50 <IanWilson> i will volunteer
14:07:55 <Nestor> Nestor has joined #emotion
14:08:01 <marc> thank you Ian!!
14:08:15 <IanWilson> is everything set up for scribing?
14:08:36 <marc> Scribe: IanWilson
14:09:32 <andyb> andyb has joined #emotion
14:09:37 <cath> cath has joined #emotion
14:09:52 <IanWilson> ScribeNick: Ian
14:09:58 <marc> next item
14:10:05 <Nestor> Nestor has left #emotion
14:10:20 <Nestor> Nestor has joined #emotion
14:11:12 <IanWilson> present: Marc Schröder
14:11:47 <Zakim> +Myriam_Arrue
14:12:36 <bill> bill has joined #emotion
14:14:12 <marc> next item
14:14:50 <IanWilson> present: Marc Schröder, Felix Burkhardt, Andy Breen, Zovato Enrico, Bill Jarrold, Myriam Lamolle, Catherine Pelachaud, 
14:15:03 <andyb> andyb has joined #emotion
14:15:35 <IanWilson> ACTION: Marc to keep time schedule - due 2006.6.19 
14:15:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-17 - keep time schedule [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:17:38 <IanWilson> Marc asks whether we agree that XML is the format we should progress with
14:18:09 <IanWilson> Ian says connection to other groups (who seem to all be using XML) will be very difficult unless we do not use XML
14:18:55 <IanWilson> Andy says Commercial organizations will have difficulty accepting anything but XML
14:19:16 <IanWilson> Bill says  that OWL  has flexibility
14:20:28 <felix> I vote for using XML cause I think it meets the requirements fair enough (gut feeling) and is known much wider than OWL which will help spreading the use
14:20:37 <IanWilson> Bill has shown with his example (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/billj/custom-descriptor-challenge/) OWL can be use sub classes as our specification calls for
14:20:50 <marc> next item
14:21:20 <marc> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/emotion/XGR-emotion/#ExistingLanguages
14:21:32 <IanWilson> After a vote (Bill abstention due to lack of XML knowledge) we agree to move forward with XML as our format of choice 
14:21:38 <marc> this link contains a set of links to things from existing markup languages that we could build upon
14:27:49 <IanWilson> After surveying various other current XML specifications points made are that they are complimentary to what we are trying to do
14:29:00 <IanWilson> Marc notes that we are not trying to redefine existing language features in our languages
14:29:39 <IanWilson> Instead we could look at how they have already solved problems we need to solve and perhaps use their solutions or be inspired by them
14:29:42 <marc> next item 
14:30:25 <marc> e.g. "simple cases should look simple"
14:30:40 <marc> ... or "structure should be explicit enough to avoid confusion"
14:31:05 <IanWilson> Here is a more general set of best practices : http://www.xfront.com/BestPracticesHomepage.html
14:32:34 <IanWilson> Marc notes that apparently a first working draft does not contain an XML schema
14:33:00 <IanWilson> so we should focus our discussions on syntax
14:33:27 <Zakim> -Andy_Breen
14:34:57 <IanWilson> Andy says we should focus on incorporating other languages as much as possible
14:37:20 <IanWilson> Ian says perhaps we can bias our representation towards being explicit
14:38:05 <IanWilson> Bill asks to clarify the definition of "explicit" and "implicit"
14:38:26 <IanWilson> Marc explains about EARLs implicit structure
14:39:54 <IanWilson> Felix mentions that we have already agreed some of the points
14:42:04 <IanWilson> ACTION: XMLGroup to show examples of explicit and implicit structure - due 2008.6.26 
14:42:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - XMLGroup
14:42:20 <IanWilson> ACTION: marc to show examples of explicit and implicit structure - due 2008.6.26
14:42:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-18 - show examples of explicit and implicit structure [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:42:29 <marc> next item
14:43:13 <IanWilson> Enrico suggests that our choice of guiding principals be guided by first writing examples
14:43:37 <IanWilson> Marc asks for volunteers for the XML group
14:44:08 <felix> I volunteer
14:44:15 <marc> I volunteer
14:44:53 <IanWilson> ACTION: felix to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:44:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-19 - join first XML group [on Felix Burkhardt - due 2008-06-19].
14:45:15 <IanWilson> ACTION: marc to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:45:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - join first XML group [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:45:32 <IanWilson> I volunteer
14:45:50 <IanWilson> ACTION: ian to join first XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:45:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - join first XML group [on Ian Wilson - due 2008-06-19].
14:46:39 <IanWilson> ACTION: felix, marc, ian to discuss separately how to proceed with XML group - due 2008.6.26
14:46:39 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - felix,
14:47:12 <IanWilson> Marc asks how other would like to follow the discussions
14:47:49 <IanWilson> Bill would like to follow the discussions
14:49:07 <IanWilson> Ian says that the dynamics are different between group and private communicatuions
14:49:48 <IanWilson> Marc says that he would prefer initially to keep discussions within the small group
14:50:16 <IanWilson> Ian says perhaps we can "cc" other interested parties
14:51:18 <IanWilson> Marc suggests sending a note to the public mailing list posting that we are discussing things in a small group and anyone else interested should let us know
14:51:41 <IanWilson> ACTION: marc to notify public mailing list of XML group - due 2008.6.19
14:51:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - notify public mailing list of XML group [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-06-19].
14:52:25 <IanWilson> ACTION: felix, marc, ian to something as a basis for discussion - due 2008.7.3
14:52:25 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - felix,
14:52:42 <marc> next item
14:54:27 <felix> yes I agree to try to organize a Cannes f2f
14:54:45 <IanWilson> Marc asks if he should proceed with organizing a Cannes f2f meeting
14:55:37 <Zakim> -Bill
14:55:39 <Zakim> -Catherine
14:55:39 <Zakim> -Myriam_Arrue
14:55:41 <Zakim> -Enrico
14:57:11 <marc> Meeting: Emotion Markup Language
14:57:18 <marc> Chair: Marc Schroeder
14:57:50 <marc> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jun/0004.html
14:58:08 <marc> ScribeNick: IanWilson
14:58:36 <marc> Regrets: Jianhua, Bjoern, Nestor, Paolo
14:58:54 <marc> rrsagent, make logs public
14:59:04 <marc> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-emotion-minutes.html marc
14:59:46 <IanWilson> who is Idoia?
15:00:19 <marc> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=39402
15:07:54 <Zakim> -Rinke
15:07:56 <Zakim> -Felix_Burkhardt
15:07:57 <Zakim> INC_EMOXG()10:00AM has ended
15:07:58 <Zakim> Attendees were Rinke, Felix_Burkhardt, +39.011.291.aaaa, Ian, Enrico, Andy_Breen, +1.512.567.aabb, Bill, +39.63.aacc, Catherine, Myriam_Arrue
15:08:16 <IanWilson> quit