IRC log of swd on 2008-06-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:51:59 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:51:59 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc
14:52:03 [Tom]: rrsagent, bookmark
14:52:03 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T14-52-03
14:52:07 [Tom]: zakim, this will be swd
14:52:07 [Zakim]: ok, Tom; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
14:52:12 [Tom]: Meeting: SWD WG
14:52:16 [Tom]: Chair: Tom
14:52:39 [Tom]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Jun/0058.html
14:52:53 [Tom]: Regrets: Daniel, Vit, Ed, Sean, Guus, Elisa
14:53:54 [Tom]: Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html
14:54:04 [Tom]: rrsagent, please make record public
14:55:06 [Zakim]: SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
14:55:14 [Zakim]: +Margherita_Sini
14:55:41 [marghe]: marghe has joined #swd
14:56:15 [marghe]: zakim, this conference is swd
14:56:15 [Zakim]: marghe, this was already SW_SWD()11:00AM
14:56:16 [Zakim]: ok, marghe; that matches SW_SWD()11:00AM
14:56:29 [marghe]: rrsagent, bookmark
14:56:29 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T14-56-29
14:56:34 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
14:57:03 [marghe]: rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:57:03 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html marghe
14:58:11 [marghe]: Scribe: Margherita Sini
14:58:22 [marghe]: Scribenick: marghe
14:59:39 [Zakim]: +Ralph
15:00:26 [aliman]: aliman has joined #swd
15:01:18 [JonP]: JonP has joined #swd
15:02:14 [Zakim]: +??P19
15:02:27 [Ralph]: zakim, ??p19 is Aliman
15:02:27 [Zakim]: +Aliman; got it
15:02:39 [Zakim]: +Jon_Phipps
15:03:17 [Antoine]: Antoine has joined #swd
15:03:42 [JonP]: zakim, Jon_Phipps is me
15:03:42 [Zakim]: +JonP; got it
15:04:17 [Tom]: rrsagent, bookmark
15:04:17 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-04-17
15:04:31 [Zakim]: +??P34
15:04:41 [Ralph]: zakim, ??p34 is Antoine
15:04:41 [Zakim]: +Antoine; got it
15:04:42 [Antoine]: zakim, ??P34 is me
15:04:43 [Zakim]: I already had ??P34 as Antoine, Antoine
15:05:02 [marghe]: TOPIC: ADMIN
15:05:26 [marghe]: next week the last regular conference scheduled
15:05:37 [marghe]: Guus in charge
15:06:06 [marghe]: in summer no teleconferences but wrap-up sessions
15:06:14 [marghe]: to discuss next week
15:06:15 [benadida]: benadida has joined #swd
15:06:56 [Zakim]: +Ben_Adida
15:06:58 [seanb]: seanb has joined #swd
15:07:11 [marghe]: propose to accept meeting of last teleconf
15:07:36 [marghe]: actions on the last minutes fixed
15:07:45 [marghe]: no objections --> accepted
15:07:52 [marghe]: TOPIC: SKOS
15:08:27 [marghe]: ACTION: Ed to investigate what text could be added to primer re. concept co-ordination [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:08:36 [marghe]: --continue
15:08:47 [marghe]: ACTION: Guus to write primer text re: broaderGeneric and equivalence w/r/t subclass
15:08:51 [marghe]: --continues
15:08:52 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html Ralph
15:09:24 [marghe]: ACTION: Alistair to check the old namespace wrt dereferencing
15:09:51 [marghe]: \me sorry could not hear
15:10:13 [marghe]: --continues
15:10:53 [marghe]: Antoine: should we have skos ontology .... donwloadable?
15:11:29 [marghe]: ralph?: there is a url to go to
15:11:36 [Zakim]: +??P9
15:11:40 [seanb]: zakim, ??P9 is me
15:11:40 [Zakim]: +seanb; got it
15:12:03 [marghe]: Antoine: owl file should be available
15:13:26 [marghe]: Tom: good to have action to define how different products will be made available
15:13:51 [marghe]: ralph?: recipes should be enough ?
15:14:08 [marghe]: alistar: ok if there is a link on the pages
15:14:32 [marghe]: ralph: maybe people can be confused by namespaces and other links
15:14:43 [marghe]: tom: owl file should be somewhere....
15:15:18 [marghe]: sean: can i access the owl file from my browser?
15:15:45 [marghe]: sean: as a user why should i access the owl file?
15:15:59 [marghe]: alistar: users want to download it
15:16:08 [marghe]: ... and look it locally
15:16:16 [marghe]: ... should be possible to do that
15:16:40 [marghe]: antoine: url should be available with the receipt
15:17:01 [marghe]: tom: maybe people would like to point to the owl file directly
15:17:11 [marghe]: ... even to cite it
15:18:44 [marghe]: ralph: if there is the uri to retrieve the owl then we have to tell why is different from namespace
15:19:03 [marghe]: ... is the uri normative, informative,... ?
15:19:48 [seanb]: q+
15:20:09 [Ralph]: Margherita: in FAO we redirect the namespace to the OWL file
15:20:10 [Tom]: ack seanb
15:21:20 [Ralph]: q+
15:21:42 [marghe]: tom?: the question is the owl file has a uri? and if is persistent ? and why not make that uri visible for people that wants to refer to it
15:21:50 [Tom]: ack Ralph
15:22:15 [JonP]: skos owl uri: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-reference-20080609/skos.rdf
15:22:22 [marghe]: ralph: we haven't decided yes if uri should be persistent ....
15:22:24 [aliman]: q+ to mention http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/history and publishing uris
15:22:56 [JonP]: and that uri returns owl in the browser
15:23:05 [marghe]: ... i think that we are realizing that this case we need to address as deployment group
15:23:50 [marghe]: ... we should think about what is our advice...
15:24:30 [Tom]: ack aliman
15:24:30 [Zakim]: aliman, you wanted to mention http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/history and publishing uris
15:24:34 [marghe]: tom: the uri is not a secret so we should write it in the document
15:24:43 [seanb]: +1 to Ralp's comments re secrets.
15:24:49 [seanb]: s/Ralp/Ralph
15:25:09 [Ralph]: Ralph: the URI is not a secret. What I object to without further discussion is writing down that URI in a document.
15:25:47 [Tom]: aliman, the page looks good
15:25:56 [marghe]: \me (sorry i cannot hear well alistar)
15:26:08 [Antoine]: http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/vocabs
15:26:13 [marghe]: antoine: what about vocabulary page....
15:26:45 [marghe]: alistar: has generic uris ...
15:27:01 [marghe]: ... in the rdf vocab page you have a link
15:27:39 [marghe]: the url redirect to latest version
15:28:54 [marghe]: ralph?: ... there is grey area in the middle between ???
15:29:39 [marghe]: tom: who is maintaining the 2004/02/skos space?
15:29:47 [marghe]: ralph: alistar + others
15:30:01 [marghe]: tom: there is going to be changes
15:30:16 [marghe]: ... to skos material so there will be few changes to this web space
15:30:41 [marghe]: ... so should be clear to user the new namespace and that the old namespace will stay there
15:31:07 [marghe]: ... we need an action so we can back to this topic
15:31:28 [marghe]: ... to decide what is the best reccomandation
15:31:41 [marghe]: tom: alistar is ok to work on that?
15:31:46 [marghe]: alistar: yes
15:32:23 [marghe]: tom: we need action about linking directly to owl file
15:32:24 [JonP]: q+ have we now raised an issue wrt the recipes?
15:32:28 [marghe]: ... what is best practice
15:33:04 [JonP]: q+ is there an issue wrt the recipes?
15:33:08 [JonP]: grrr
15:33:37 [marghe]: Alistar: suggest to update vocabulary page ...
15:34:07 [Tom]: ack Jon
15:35:41 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/ajar/tab Tabulator; an RDF browser plugin for FireFox
15:36:03 [marghe]: antoine: ideally would be better that tool could manage ??
15:36:56 [marghe]: tom: let's wrap up
15:38:45 [marghe]: ACTION: Alistar to update the vocabulary page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple
15:40:02 [marghe]: Ralph: refer to history page
15:40:09 [Tom]: s/vocabulary page/history page/
15:40:29 [marghe]: ACTION: Antoine and Ed to add content to Primer about irreflexivity
15:40:45 [marghe]: --continues
15:40:53 [marghe]: ACTION: Ralph compose intermediate pages
15:41:22 [marghe]: --done
15:41:34 [Ralph]: [DONE] ACTION: Ralph compose intermediate pages for http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-skos-core-spec and http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-skos-core-guide/ to inform readers of the paths to the old and new SKOS documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:42:22 [marghe]: ACTION: Sean and Alistair to send a file for the namespace
15:42:28 [marghe]: --done
15:42:43 [marghe]: ACTION: Sean to write a proposal to indicate to OWL WG our requirements for annotation properties
15:42:47 [marghe]: --continues
15:42:57 [marghe]: ACTION: Editors of the Use Cases to clean up the lists of requirements in light of resolutions
15:43:00 [marghe]: --continues
15:43:40 [aliman]: ralph, I've reviewed the intermediate skos pages, they look fine to me.
15:43:54 [Ralph]: [Antoine, if you're referring to the difference between "SKOS Simple Knowledge Organization System Primer" in the title and "SKOS -- Simple Knowledge Organisation System" in the abstract, that's how it appears in http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-skos-primer-20080221/ -- I can change the intermediate page either way you like :)
15:44:35 [Ralph]: [DONE] ACTION: Margherita to liase with primer authors about example using plain literals and some with datatype literals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/20-swd-minutes.html#action17]
15:45:03 [Ralph]: Margherita: I don't see a need for translating symbols now
15:46:01 [Ralph]: ... I'll have another look and send email later today
15:46:36 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#L2655 6.5.4. Notations and Preferred Labels
15:47:08 [Ralph]: Alistair: I added section 6.5.4 to the SKOS Reference after our discussion on symbolic labels
15:47:17 [Ralph]: ... see the prose before Example 22
15:48:05 [marghe]: TOPIC: Issue 83
15:48:52 [marghe]: Alistar: no objection on the proposal
15:50:39 [seanb]: Sean: should make it clear that the properties are not inverses.
15:51:14 [marghe]: tom: propose to resolve issue 83
15:51:40 [marghe]: RESOLVED: to close Issue 83
15:52:50 [Tom]: s=to close Issue 83=to close Issue 83 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008May/0068.html =
15:53:10 [Tom]: s/=/|/g
15:53:50 [Ralph]: s|: to close Issue 83|: to close Issue 83 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008May/0068.html
15:53:58 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html Ralph
15:54:07 [marghe]: TOPIC: Issues 72, 73, 75
15:54:23 [marghe]: ACTION: Guus to mail his position on issues 72, 73 and 75 to the list
15:54:30 [marghe]: --continues
15:54:45 [marghe]: TOPIC: RDFa
15:55:43 [marghe]: ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
15:55:46 [marghe]: --continues
15:56:01 [marghe]: ACTION: Ralph to draft to draft the RDFa transition request [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:56:05 [marghe]: --continues
15:56:21 [marghe]: --done
15:56:32 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html Ralph
15:56:51 [marghe]: TOPIC: RECIPES
15:57:01 [marghe]: ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
15:57:06 [marghe]: --continues
15:58:53 [Zakim]: -seanb
15:58:55 [marghe]: ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03]
15:58:55 [Zakim]: -Ben_Adida
15:58:57 [Zakim]: -JonP
15:58:58 [Zakim]: -Antoine
15:58:59 [Zakim]: -Aliman
15:59:14 [Ralph]: zakim, list attendees
15:59:14 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been Margherita_Sini, Tom, Ralph, Aliman, JonP, Antoine, Ben_Adida, seanb
15:59:17 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-minutes.html Ralph
16:00:47 [JonP]: @Ralph from last minutes: guus: would like jon and ralph to take an action on reflecting the possible future activities related to the document
16:03:56 [Zakim]: -Ralph
16:03:57 [Zakim]: -Tom
16:03:58 [Zakim]: -Margherita_Sini
16:03:59 [marghe]: marghe has left #swd
16:04:04 [Zakim]: SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:04:06 [Zakim]: Attendees were Margherita_Sini, Tom, Ralph, Aliman, JonP, Antoine, Ben_Adida, seanb
16:04:13 [Ralph]: zakim, bye
16:04:14 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #swd
16:04:16 [Ralph]: rrsagent, bye
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-actions.rdf :
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ed to investigate what text could be added to primer re. concept co-ordination [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/22-swd-minutes.html#action02] [1]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-08-27
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Guus to write primer text re: broaderGeneric and equivalence w/r/t subclass [2]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-08-47
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Alistair to check the old namespace wrt dereferencing [3]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-09-24
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Alistar to update the vocabulary page adding direct link to latest version of rdf triple [4]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-38-45
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Antoine and Ed to add content to Primer about irreflexivity [5]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-40-29
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph compose intermediate pages [6]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-40-53
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Sean and Alistair to send a file for the namespace [7]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-42-22
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Sean to write a proposal to indicate to OWL WG our requirements for annotation properties [8]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-42-43
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Editors of the Use Cases to clean up the lists of requirements in light of resolutions [9]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-42-57
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Guus to mail his position on issues 72, 73 and 75 to the list [10]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-54-23
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [11]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-55-43
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph to draft to draft the RDFa transition request [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action02] [12]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-56-01
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [13]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-57-01
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Jon and Ralph to publish Recipes as Working Group Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/10-swd-minutes.html#action03] [14]
16:04:16 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-swd-irc#T15-58-55