14:44:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:44:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/06/04-forms-irc
14:44:26 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make log public
14:45:12 <John_Boyer> Meeting: Weekly Forms WG Teleconference
14:45:17 <Roger> zakim, code ?
14:45:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Roger
14:45:29 <John_Boyer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jun/0005.html
14:45:44 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
14:45:46 <Zakim> +wellsk
14:45:58 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jun/0005.html
14:45:59 <Zakim> + +45.36.98.aaaa
14:46:12 <Zakim> +Roger
14:46:21 <kennethsklander> zakim, i am +45
14:46:21 <Zakim> +kennethsklander; got it
14:46:29 <Charlie> zakim, who is here?
14:46:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBM], wellsk, John_Boyer, kennethsklander, Roger
14:46:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, Roger, wellsk, Charlie, kennethsklander, trackbot, Steven, markbirbeck, shepazu
14:46:35 <Charlie> zakim, [IBM] is Charlie
14:46:35 <Zakim> +Charlie; got it
14:46:42 <Rafael> Rafael has joined #forms
14:46:48 <nick> nick has joined #forms
14:46:50 <Roger> zakim, Roger has Rafael
14:46:50 <Zakim> +Rafael; got it
14:46:59 <nick> zakim, code?
14:46:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nick
14:47:43 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
14:47:45 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
14:47:46 <John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh
14:48:03 <John_Boyer> scribenick: Leigh_Klotz
14:48:06 <nick> zakim, mute me
14:48:06 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
14:48:12 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
14:48:23 <nick> no
14:48:49 <John_Boyer> Regrets: Uli, Erik
14:48:53 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:48:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie, wellsk, John_Boyer, kennethsklander, Roger, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted)
14:48:55 <Zakim> Roger has Rafael
14:48:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see klotz, nick, Rafael, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, Roger, wellsk, Charlie, kennethsklander, trackbot, Steven, markbirbeck, shepazu
14:49:14 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
14:51:11 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:51:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie, wellsk, John_Boyer, kennethsklander, Roger, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), Leigh_Klotz
14:51:13 <Zakim> Roger has Rafael
14:51:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see klotz, nick, Rafael, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, Roger, wellsk, Charlie, kennethsklander, trackbot, Steven, markbirbeck, shepazu
14:51:51 <wellsk> -1
14:52:09 <wellsk> (on getting rid of XML idea)
14:53:10 <John_Boyer> me too, was just kidding; trying to get the rest to join the call on time :-)
14:53:29 <klotz> newsletter: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/March-May_2008_Newsletter
14:54:19 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:54:19 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:54:21 <Zakim> +Steven
14:55:34 <nick> Leigh this is a link to the video of stevens presentation at XTech 2008 http://blip.tv/file/897572
14:56:26 <nick> Oops this is the wrong link
14:56:33 <klotz> oops i just published it
14:56:40 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jun/0005.html
14:57:01 <Steven> q+ to ask for someone to arrive mornings before 8:30
14:57:54 <nick> ack me
15:00:11 <klotz> xslt
15:02:30 <Steven> klotz, temp minutes url?
15:03:02 <klotz> http://xformstest.org/2008-06-04.txt
15:03:10 <Steven> thanks
15:03:58 <nick> sounds good
15:04:14 <John_Boyer> Zakim, ack Steven
15:04:14 <Zakim> Steven, you wanted to ask for someone to arrive mornings before 8:30
15:04:15 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:04:39 <Charlie> i can do monday
15:04:42 <nick> I can do it for monday
15:05:25 <Charlie> i am
15:06:12 <John_Boyer> 28<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jun/0051.html> rnhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Jun/0051.html
15:06:17 <klotz> ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken to arrive Monday at 8:20AM at Pembertonhuisje.
15:06:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-465 - Van den Bleeken to arrive Monday at 8:20AM at Pembertonhuisje. [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2008-06-11].
15:07:20 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:07:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:09:44 <Zakim> +markbirbeck
15:14:57 <markbirbeck> zakim, mute me
15:14:58 <Zakim> markbirbeck should now be muted
15:15:00 <nick> markB: but with your approach the user can't style the non-relevant controls in another way then not visible 
15:17:56 <nick> zakim, mute me
15:17:56 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:18:54 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-case
15:19:15 <markbirbeck> zakim, unmute me
15:19:15 <Zakim> markbirbeck should no longer be muted
15:20:09 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-processing
15:26:54 <nick> we implemented  a tab-control in our namespace that does that
15:27:06 <nick> yes
15:35:10 <nick> ack me
15:36:44 <nick> zakim, mute me
15:36:44 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
15:39:31 <nick> what happens if you add a submission listener that is attached to the model but is located in a non-relevant group in the markup
15:39:49 <nick> (just a side question)
15:40:40 <John_Boyer> We only detach action handlers that are attached to non-relevant form controls
15:40:53 <nick> ok, thanks
15:41:03 <John_Boyer> We don't specify anything that connects xforms notions of relevance to behavior of XML events
15:41:27 <nick> ack me
15:53:48 <nick> I don't like the definition of extend to allow change of behavior. If you have a processor that doesn't know the extension it should work the same in my opinion
15:55:39 <John_Boyer> Yes, but on the other hand we already have xforms:extension.  We got rid of the mustUnderstand module because we thought CDF would handle it.
15:56:00 <John_Boyer> The extension mechanism itself needs to have a way of demanding that the processor understand it
15:56:34 <John_Boyer> At which point, it seems like we have a solution.  Extend with "additional" behavior versus extend with "changed" behavior
15:57:22 <nick> we have extensions (using extension element, foreign namespaced attributes and foreign namespace elements) but try to do it in a way the form still works in a standard processor
15:58:33 <nick> mute me
15:58:38 <nick> zakim, mute me
15:58:38 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
16:02:08 <nick> but allowing to type in the control doesn't changes the 'behavior' the same events are sent and the result of thee form is the same
16:06:08 <nick> yes I always thought appearance  only influenced the View, not the controller or the model
16:06:27 <nick> s/or/nor/
16:09:16 <nick> but changing it once isn't good, but changing it to undefined after first changing it is even worse I guess
16:14:49 <Steven> tick
16:15:32 <John_Boyer> tock
16:15:39 <Charlie> zzzzzzzz
16:16:30 <Steven> tock
16:16:41 <Steven> OK
16:16:48 <Steven> I'll arrange for a projector
16:16:55 <Steven> if anyone is interested
16:17:07 <Steven> If anyone is in Amsterdam Saturday
16:17:10 <nick> that is also an option, or we can waych it in a bar
16:17:11 <Steven> I'm singing in a concert
16:17:19 <Steven> bye
16:17:23 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
16:17:24 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
16:17:25 <Zakim> -Charlie
16:17:25 <Zakim> -wellsk
16:17:27 <Zakim> -kennethsklander
16:17:27 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
16:17:28 <Zakim> -Steven
16:17:29 <Roger> better in a bar
16:17:32 <wellsk> wellsk has left #forms
16:17:39 <Charlie> Charlie has left #forms
16:17:46 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:17:51 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
16:17:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roger
16:17:52 <Zakim> Roger has Rafael
16:17:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see klotz, nick, RRSAgent, Zakim, John_Boyer, Roger, kennethsklander, trackbot, Steven, markbirbeck, shepazu
16:17:57 <Zakim> -Roger
16:17:59 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
16:18:01 <Zakim> Attendees were John_Boyer, wellsk, +45.36.98.aaaa, kennethsklander, Charlie, Rafael, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Leigh_Klotz, Steven, markbirbeck
16:18:03 <Roger> bye
16:18:07 <nick> bye
16:18:08 <John_Boyer> bye, Roger
16:18:15 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
16:18:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/04-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
16:18:18 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, bye
16:18:18 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/04-forms-actions.rdf :
16:18:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken to arrive Monday at 8:20AM at Pembertonhuisje. [1]
16:18:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/04-forms-irc#T15-06-17