13:22:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #backplane
13:22:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/30-backplane-irc
13:22:24 <Charlie> zakim, this will be rwab
13:22:24 <Zakim> ok, Charlie; I see INC_RWAB()10:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes
13:22:48 <Charlie> rrsagent, make log public
13:23:02 <Charlie> Meeting: Backplane XG teleconference
13:23:18 <Charlie> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008May/0007.html
13:23:30 <Charlie> Chair: Charlie Wiecha
13:51:35 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()10:00AM has now started
13:51:42 <Zakim> +[IBM]
13:51:52 <Charlie> zakim, [IBM] is Charlie
13:51:52 <Zakim> +Charlie; got it
13:52:02 <Charlie> Chair: Charlie
13:52:28 <Steven> Steven has joined #backplane
13:52:36 <Steven> hi
13:52:39 <Charlie> hi steven!
13:52:57 <Steven> I've been sitting in #rwab all afternoon :-)
13:53:07 <Charlie> agg
13:53:09 <Charlie> sorry
13:53:09 <Steven> even set up zakim and rrsagent
13:53:16 <Steven> No, my fault
13:53:37 <Charlie> well, it is inconsistent
13:54:57 <Charlie> can you stay on there too in case others go there?
13:58:30 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:58:48 <Kevin> Kevin has joined #backplane
13:59:02 <jsalvachua> jsalvachua has joined #backplane
13:59:15 <jsalvachua> Hello
13:59:26 <Charlie> hi there...welcome
14:00:35 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:00:35 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:00:36 <Zakim> +Steven
14:00:52 <Steven> hi
14:01:37 <Zakim> +Kevin_Kelly
14:01:57 <oedipus> oedipus has joined #backplane
14:02:22 <Zakim> + +34.91.549.aaaa
14:03:26 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
14:03:37 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Charlie (37%), +34.91.549.aaaa (76%)
14:04:02 <Steven> zakim, mute aaaa temporarily
14:04:02 <Zakim> +34.91.549.aaaa should now be muted
14:04:18 <Zakim> +34.91.549.aaaa should now be unmuted again
14:04:47 <Steven> zakim, aaa is 04jsalvachua01
14:04:47 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
14:05:03 <Steven> zakim, aaaa is 04jsalvachua01
14:05:03 <Zakim> +04jsalvachua01; got it
14:05:49 <Steven> zakim, who is muted
14:05:49 <Zakim> Steven, you need to end that query with '?'
14:06:11 <Steven> zakim, who is muted?
14:06:11 <Zakim> I see 04jsalvachua01 muted
14:06:17 <Kevin> 41# raise your hand
14:06:19 <Zakim> +John_Boyer
14:06:24 <Kevin> 41#
14:06:38 <Steven> ack
14:06:41 <Steven> q?
14:06:44 <Steven> ack 4
14:06:48 <Steven> ack r
14:06:52 <Charlie> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008May/0007.html
14:06:53 <Steven> ack y
14:07:25 <Charlie> Scribe: Kevin
14:07:39 <Kevin> Topic: Introductions
14:08:02 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has joined #backplane
14:08:10 <Kevin> Charlie Wiecha (chair) 
14:09:52 <Kevin> Steven Pemberton 
14:09:54 <oedipus> zakim, choose a victim
14:09:54 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Charlie
14:10:22 <Kevin> Chair: Charlie
14:10:27 <Kevin> Scribe: Kevin
14:10:32 <Kevin> scribenick: Kevin 
14:10:36 <Kevin> John Boyer
14:11:48 <Steven> ack jsalv
14:11:49 <John_Boyer> zakim, unmute jsalvachua
14:11:49 <Zakim> sorry, John_Boyer, I do not know which phone connection belongs to jsalvachua
14:11:56 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
14:11:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Kevin_Kelly, 04jsalvachua01 (muted), John_Boyer
14:11:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see John_Boyer, oedipus, jsalvachua, Kevin, Steven, RRSAgent, Zakim, Charlie
14:12:02 <oedipus> zakim, unmute aaaa
14:12:02 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to aaaa
14:12:27 <jsalvachua> i think its me
14:12:49 <Steven> zakim, 04jsalvachua01 is jsalvachua01
14:12:49 <Zakim> +jsalvachua01; got it
14:12:59 <Steven> zakim, unmute jsalv
14:12:59 <Zakim> jsalvachua01 should no longer be muted
14:13:53 <Kevin> Gregory Rosmaita
14:14:21 <Kevin> Jaochim Salvachua
14:14:57 <Kevin> Kevin Kelly 
14:15:13 <Steven> s/Jao/Joa/
14:16:17 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
14:16:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlie, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Kevin_Kelly, jsalvachua01, John_Boyer
14:16:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see John_Boyer, oedipus, jsalvachua, Kevin, Steven, RRSAgent, Zakim, Charlie
14:16:53 <Kevin> Topic: Work leading up to formation of XG
14:17:12 <Kevin> Links posted in the agenda from Charlie 
14:17:33 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008May/0007.html
14:17:36 <Kevin> [1] Panel at the 2006 Tech Plenary: 
14:17:36 <Kevin> http://www.w3.org/2006/03/01-TechPlenAgenda.html 
14:17:36 <Kevin> [2] W3C Note on the Backplane: http://www.w3.org/TR/backplane/ 
14:17:36 <Kevin> [3] Amsterdam meeting minutes: 
14:17:36 <Kevin> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/2006/backplane-meeting.html 
14:17:37 <Kevin> [4] Amsterdam meeting report: 
14:17:40 <Kevin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Jan/0035.html 
14:17:41 <Kevin> [5] Backplane XG Charter: 
14:17:43 <Kevin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/charter-20080409.html 
14:19:00 <Kevin> Present: John_Boyer, jsalvachua, Kevin, oedipus, Steven
14:19:20 <Steven> Present+Charlie
14:19:41 <Kevin> oedipus = Gregory Rosmaita
14:20:16 <Kevin> Description of topics from Amsterdam level setting meeting.
14:21:24 <Kevin> jsalvachua = Joachim Salcachua
14:21:34 <jsalvachua> salvachua :)
14:21:36 <Kevin> Everyone has read the background material 
14:21:43 <Kevin> Topic: Deliverables discussion 
14:21:50 <Kevin> Not producing rec track documents 
14:21:53 <Steven> From minutes:
14:21:54 <Steven> Task forces (with proposed champions, some not yet confirmed): 
14:21:54 <Steven> Submission (Klotz, Hofn, McGlashan, Birbeck(?)) 
14:21:54 <Steven> Model (McGlashan, Jansen, Wiecha, Boyer(?)) 
14:21:54 <Steven> Eventing (Hofn, Pemberton)
14:21:55 <Steven> Access (Lewis)
14:21:57 <Steven> Intent-based events (Lewis)
14:21:59 <Steven> Navigation (Kelly(?))
14:22:16 <Kevin> We are adopting the new patent policy 
14:22:32 <Kevin> Flexibility on what constitutes the report at the end 
14:23:01 <Kevin> Originally Charlie was thinking about a document, but an executable implementation would be more compelling
14:23:51 <Kevin> An open source activity taking the backplane ideas in a lightweight Ajax implementation (Ubiquity Excellence) could be leveraged 
14:24:44 <Kevin> Could be a wiki and report. Work interactively with an executable delivery. 
14:25:34 <Kevin> Gregory: Agrees with Charlie's proposal for examples and working implementation
14:26:10 <Kevin> John: bottom concrete example would manufacture need rather than just spec work 
14:26:39 <John_Boyer> s/bottom/bottom-up
14:26:39 <oedipus> s/Salcachua/Salvachua
14:26:47 <Kevin> Charlei: a spec would look very top down and architecture driven 
14:26:59 <Steven> s/ei:/ie:/
14:27:14 <Steven> It's a bold approach
14:27:20 <Steven> I hope we can achieve it
14:27:41 <Kevin> Charlie: show benefit by doing something that runs
14:28:28 <Kevin> Steven: bold approach, a year is a short time to get an implementation though.  Incubator group idea is to create something a working group can work on.
14:29:07 <Kevin> Steven: is it more work than writing down what to do?
14:29:23 <Steven> zakim, mute jsal
14:29:23 <Zakim> jsalvachua01 should now be muted
14:29:45 <Kevin> Gregory: objections and impracticalities could be cut out by doing this work 
14:30:12 <Kevin> Charlie: Ubiquity Excellence code is a jump start for us to implement some of the Amsterdam report topics 
14:30:42 <Kevin> Charlie: allows us to work in parallel on topics 
14:30:52 <John_Boyer> Currently is "Ubiquity XForms" at http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-xforms/
14:31:46 <Kevin> Kevin: agrees and cites CDF example 
14:32:03 <Kevin> Greogry: agrees and cites an Aria example 
14:32:30 <Kevin> Gregory: parallel activity on implementation made a stronger spec
14:32:49 <Kevin> Charlie: tutorial by expressive disclosure 
14:34:14 <Kevin> Charlie: where would we host implementation 
14:35:09 <oedipus> FYI: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria (latest public draft) - http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/ (latest editor's draft)
14:36:51 <Kevin> John: agrees, code can be used by developers as a jumpstart 
14:37:16 <Kevin> Charlie: a blending of open source and standards 
14:37:31 <Kevin> Charlie:  there should be a W3C hosted wiki presence
14:39:30 <Charlie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_Future_Features
14:39:49 <Kevin> Charlie: explains modularization that the Forms Group is doing 
14:43:16 <Kevin> Gregory: example if the backplane can be specified then something like accessibility can be implemented easier
14:44:06 <oedipus> event flow and event cascade is addressed in ARIA ("politeness levels" amongst others)
14:44:33 <Kevin> John: pure XML events play event flow and the possibility for context info in events is a pretty cool delcarative way at the runtime level to do this
14:46:05 <Kevin> John: XForms integration example with events and bubble phase exposure of content info exposed through modularization 
14:46:46 <oedipus> very strong support for xforms submission module and providing information about bubbling and events to assistive tech via standard syntax (ARIA intended for repair, WAI prefers native solutions over overlays
14:46:48 <Kevin> Charlie: eventing infrastructure can be a way for components to signal each other
14:48:03 <Kevin> Charlie: performance of and granularity of events should be addressed 
14:48:46 <oedipus> FYI: working for Open A11y on "Expert Handlers" for specialized knowledge markup (CellML, MusicXML, etc.) to communicate with assistive technologies in the context of the content being handled (music, cellular structure, etc.) to provide I/O capability for assistive tech without the assistive tech having to be aware of every XML dialect
14:50:15 <Kevin> John: it might uncover better ways to do events in other specs and provide a better generalized integration/bridging/eventing model 
14:50:56 <Kevin> Charlie: wrap this discussion, perhaps a continued discussion on the mail list can occur 
14:51:07 <Kevin> Topic: Logistics
14:51:29 <Kevin> Charlie: what frequency for things do we want?
14:51:47 <Kevin> Charlie: if we want to meet weekly we need to find another timeslot 
14:52:14 <Kevin> Charlie: do we want to meet weekly?  what would be better time?
14:54:07 <Kevin> Charlie: 10am or 11am slot probably best 
14:54:51 <Kevin> MIT (Eastern US) time 
14:55:32 <Kevin> Charlie: proposes 11am US Eastern Thursday 
14:56:09 <Kevin> Steven: conflict with RDFA call, Wed also is a clash 
14:56:33 <Kevin> Charlie: proposes 11am US Eastern Teusday 
14:56:59 <Kevin> Charlie: any opposition?
14:57:40 <Steven> Me
14:57:43 <John_Boyer> +1
14:59:17 <Zakim> -Guest P12 7922
15:00:26 <Kevin> no opposition 
15:00:36 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:00:36 <Kevin> Charlie: should we meet next Teus
15:00:37 <Zakim> -Charlie
15:00:37 <Zakim> -Steven
15:00:41 <Kevin> Group: yes
15:00:47 <Zakim> -jsalvachua01
15:00:52 <Kevin> Charlie: I will schedule it 
15:00:59 <Zakim> -Kevin_Kelly
15:01:01 <Zakim> INC_RWAB()10:00AM has ended
15:01:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Charlie, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Kevin_Kelly, +34.91.549.aaaa, John_Boyer, jsalvachua01
15:01:15 <jsalvachua> jsalvachua has left #backplane
15:01:19 <Charlie> zakim, bye
15:01:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #backplane
15:01:35 <Charlie> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/30-backplane-minutes.html Charlie
15:01:39 <Charlie> rrsagent, bye
15:01:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items