IRC log of bpwg on 2008-05-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:07 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/27-bpwg-irc
14:01:09 [trackbot-ng]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:11 [trackbot-ng]
Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:01:12 [trackbot-ng]
Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:01:12 [trackbot-ng]
Date: 27 May 2008
14:01:20 [Zakim]
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14:01:49 [francois]
zakim, code?
14:02:02 [Zakim]
sorry, francois, I don't know what conference this is
14:02:27 [francois]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0037.html
14:02:36 [francois]
Regrets: AndrewS, Jo, Pontus, kemp, Bryan
14:06:02 [rob]
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14:07:33 [francois]
Present: rob, hgerlach, francois
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14:10:15 [francois]
Present+ SeanP
14:10:35 [francois]
Scribe: SeanP
14:10:39 [francois]
ScribeNick: SeanP
14:10:50 [francois]
Topic: One time URIs
14:10:56 [SeanP]
Topic: One time URIs
14:11:00 [francois]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0012.html Heiko's email
14:11:13 [SeanP]
Francois: Raised by Heiko
14:11:51 [SeanP]
Francois: We cannot address it more than we already do.
14:12:28 [SeanP]
Heiko: For one time URLs we can add no-transform.
14:12:39 [francois]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: One-time URIs are already addressed in the guidelines. Close the discussion.
14:12:56 [hgerlach]
+1
14:13:00 [francois]
+1
14:13:11 [rob]
+1
14:13:17 [SeanP]
RESOLUTION: One-time URIs are already addressed in the guidelines. Close the discussion.
14:13:47 [SeanP]
Topic: Idempotency
14:14:04 [francois]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0027.html fd's email
14:14:18 [SeanP]
Francois: We had the correct definition of idempotency.
14:14:35 [SeanP]
...If you do the same action multiple times you get the same result.
14:15:12 [SeanP]
...GET requests are supposed to be idempotent.
14:15:16 [francois]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Keep things as resolved re. idempotency for the end of 4.1.2. Valid use of "idempotent".
14:15:25 [rob]
+1
14:15:48 [SeanP]
+1
14:15:50 [francois]
+1
14:15:57 [SeanP]
RESOLUTION: Keep things as resolved re. idempotency for the end of 4.1.2. Valid use of "idempotent".
14:15:58 [hgerlach]
+1
14:16:16 [francois]
Close ACTION-751
14:16:16 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-751 Make sure that we are clear about idempotency and side-effect freedome etc. per Dom's original illuminating point about this section closed
14:16:25 [SeanP]
Topic: Sessions and consistency of user experience
14:17:50 [SeanP]
Francois: One things we do not say a lot about is URL-rewriting
14:18:13 [SeanP]
...a click on a link goes through the CT proxy again.
14:18:38 [SeanP]
...Don't think we need to say much about this.
14:18:43 [SeanP]
q+
14:19:04 [SeanP]
Heiko: If you do not have CT enabled, you can't insert links.
14:19:22 [SeanP]
...Should we define an additional header?
14:20:06 [SeanP]
...CT proxy whould add the header.
14:20:16 [francois]
ack SeanP
14:21:34 [hgerlach]
+q
14:22:37 [SeanP]
Francois: When a page is not transformed, then user cannot be back to CT proxy easily
14:23:25 [SeanP]
...also, we do not say much in the guidelines about rewritten URLs and that the CT proxy needs to set the HTTP headers like the request actually came from the client.
14:23:41 [SeanP]
...don't think we need to emphasize this in the document.
14:24:27 [SeanP]
Heiko: CT proxy can be set up as an HTTP proxy where URLs are not rewritten.
14:26:31 [francois]
q?
14:26:34 [francois]
ack hgerlach
14:26:42 [SeanP]
Francois: Don't think we can say much about CT proxy and directing to a page not going through the CT proxy.
14:26:53 [SeanP]
...I see headers and footers as out of scope.
14:31:33 [hgerlach]
q+
14:32:08 [francois]
ack hgerlach
14:32:52 [SeanP]
Francois: Cache-control needs to be strong...could use out of scope means to rewrite URLs.
14:33:30 [SeanP]
Heiko: We have two different no-transform options.
14:33:52 [SeanP]
...first can be HTTP header, second can be in META header.
14:34:11 [hgerlach]
http://wapreview.com/blog/?p=516
14:36:47 [SeanP]
s/header/tag/
14:37:03 [francois]
ACTION: daoust to check on equivalence between an HTTP header and a META element in HTML pages
14:37:04 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-765 - Check on equivalence between an HTTP header and a META element in HTML pages [on Fran├žois Daoust - due 2008-06-03].
14:39:28 [SeanP]
Francois: I don't think we can do anything about this issue.
14:39:43 [SeanP]
...there is an an editorial note in the document.
14:39:55 [SeanP]
Rob: Maybe the note should stay there.
14:40:32 [SeanP]
Francois: Maybe we could put in a note about how the user experience could break with no-transform.
14:41:09 [SeanP]
Rob: Have a note that it would be a good idea to keep the user experience the same across the session.
14:41:27 [hgerlach]
how do you define session#
14:42:10 [SeanP]
Francois: Don't think we should use "session" because then we would need to define session.
14:42:46 [francois]
Note: When possible, the consistency of user experience should be maintained across a sequence of related requests.
14:44:00 [francois]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: for sessions: replace the editorial note with the above note. Do not mention sessions. Do not go into more details.
14:44:47 [rob]
+1
14:44:57 [hgerlach]
+1
14:44:59 [francois]
0
14:45:12 [SeanP]
RESOLUTION: for sessions: replace the editorial note with the above note. Do not mention sessions. Do not go into more details.
14:45:25 [francois]
Close ACTION-755
14:45:25 [trackbot-ng]
ACTION-755 Summarize the issue that may be raised by sessions closed
14:45:48 [SeanP]
Topic: Link element
14:46:01 [francois]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0021.html discussion
14:46:03 [SeanP]
Francois: Has been discussed multiple times.
14:46:46 [SeanP]
...Aaron is going to say more about this when he has time.
14:47:04 [SeanP]
...LINK element links to alternate representions of a resource.
14:47:22 [SeanP]
...HTML page could link to a handheld version of the page.
14:48:31 [SeanP]
...Problem that is raised is when the handheld version of the page is requested, there is no way to tell if the page is handheld.
14:49:41 [SeanP]
...There is a way to use the LINK element to "kind of link to itself" but I'm not sure this is used in practice.
14:49:46 [SeanP]
q+
14:49:51 [francois]
ack SeanP
14:51:27 [hgerlach]
q+
14:52:39 [hgerlach]
-q
14:53:35 [SeanP]
Francois: The LINK header come back to life sometime. Could be used for non HTML pages.
14:54:30 [SeanP]
q+
14:54:34 [francois]
ack SeanP
14:56:22 [SeanP]
Francois: Related to long running issue 222.
14:56:54 [SeanP]
...Jo wanted to make a comment on issue 222.
14:58:45 [SeanP]
Sean: Treat LINK element as a redirect to mobile version.
15:00:07 [SeanP]
Rob: Tend to agree.
15:00:33 [SeanP]
Francois: Wait until next week to make a resolution on this.
15:01:30 [SeanP]
Topic: Cache-Control: no-transform
15:01:45 [francois]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2008May/0031.html Discussion
15:01:51 [SeanP]
Francois: The no-tranform switch needs to be respected.
15:03:24 [SeanP]
Francois: Most done on the editorial notes.
15:03:37 [SeanP]
...A few more things we need to agree on.
15:04:00 [SeanP]
...Want to do last call around F2F date.
15:04:31 [SeanP]
...If there is anything else in the document we want to change, now is the time.
15:05:19 [SeanP]
...once it goes to last call, working group should agree and comments should come from the outside.
15:07:33 [rob]
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15:14:53 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:14:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/27-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:15:25 [francois]
Chair: francois
15:15:31 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:15:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/27-bpwg-minutes.html francois
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