IRC log of svg on 2008-05-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:14:52 [RRSAgent]
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07:14:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-svg-irc
07:14:54 [zlatinski]
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07:14:54 [trackbot-ng]
RRSAgent, make logs public
07:14:54 [Zakim]
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07:14:56 [trackbot-ng]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
07:14:56 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot-ng; I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM scheduled to start 44 minutes ago
07:14:57 [trackbot-ng]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
07:14:57 [trackbot-ng]
Date: 22 May 2008
07:15:07 [ed]
scribe: erik
07:15:12 [ed]
scribeNick: ed
07:15:15 [ed]
chair: AE
07:15:25 [ed]
Topic: 1.2 testsuite cont.
07:15:49 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/struct-use-205-t.svg
07:16:44 [ed]
(WG) approved
07:16:56 [ed]
AE: need to generate a reference image
07:17:25 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-228t-svg
07:17:34 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-228-t.svg
07:19:54 [ChrisL]
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07:20:18 [ed]
struct-use-205-t is tentatively approved, opera generates the correct result, will be used for the reference image
07:20:51 [ed]
we will revisit the issue of how reference images are generated
07:21:41 [ed]
...since the revision changes we have to generate a new reference image after actually approving the test
07:22:31 [ed]
AE: need to change the description on udom-svg-228
07:23:01 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-textcontent-201-t.svg
07:24:45 [ed]
ED: has no pass criteria in description
07:25:19 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-227-t.svg
07:26:06 [ed]
ED: should only check the lower bound of the getCurrentTime
07:26:51 [ed]
...since the resolution of the documettime isn't defined in spec
07:28:10 [ed]
(WG) ok, approved after those changes
07:31:01 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/animate-elem-227-t.svg
07:34:27 [ed]
(WG) approved
07:35:16 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-235-t.svg
07:36:20 [ed]
AE: using e.name, e.message
07:37:34 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/TraitAccess.common.es is also using e.name and e.message
07:37:46 [ed]
AG: the test is using id instead of xml:id
07:40:03 [ed]
(WG) approved
07:41:21 [heycam]
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07:41:47 [ChrisL]
hi cam
07:41:53 [heycam]
hi ChrisL
07:41:53 [ChrisL]
we are doing test approvals
07:42:01 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, here
07:42:01 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-svg-irc#T07-42-01
07:42:02 [heycam]
cool, i saw yesterday's irc log
07:42:19 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-228-t.svg
07:45:29 [ed]
(WG) approved
07:45:42 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/intro-compat-201-t.svg
07:47:18 [ed]
ED: the pass criteria are missing
07:50:21 [ed]
(WG) approved
07:50:51 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-233-t.svg
07:51:45 [heycam]
itaccess-*
07:52:05 [ed]
AE: e.name, e.message
07:53:04 [ed]
(WG) approved
07:53:16 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-glob-204-t.svg
07:54:46 [ed]
ED: add note about security exceptions (local -> external domain) and running the servlet locally
07:57:35 [ed]
ED: why is this script using addEventListener("load", onload...? if it reaches this point it's already run all the code in the script element
07:58:04 [ed]
AE: ok, changed
07:58:21 [ed]
(WG) approved
07:58:52 [ed]
ED: there was a test like this one yesterday, should be fixed in the same manner
07:59:03 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/animate-elem-219-t.svg
08:00:43 [ed]
CL: some strange wording in the description
08:05:55 [ed]
(WG) approved
08:06:06 [ed]
ED: opera passes this, should be used for reference
08:06:38 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-textcontent-201-t.svg
08:12:51 [ed]
(WG) approve
08:13:20 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svgpath-202-t.svg
08:14:02 [ed]
CL: should mark output in green and red
08:15:32 [ed]
ACTION: AE to update udom-svgpath-202-t.svg to color the output text in red and green depending on status
08:15:37 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2029 - Update udom-svgpath-202-t.svg to color the output text in red and green depending on status [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-29].
08:16:44 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-230-t.svg
08:18:32 [ed]
ED: it's assuming getTrait("fill") doesn't normalize the color value, but that's not guaranteed
08:20:20 [ed]
...would like this test to get some more review
08:21:57 [ed]
ACTION: ED to review http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-230-t.svg and fix the color normalization mismatches in the test
08:21:58 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2030 - Review http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svg-230-t.svg and fix the color normalization mismatches in the test [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-05-29].
08:22:16 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svgmatrix-201-t.svg
08:22:45 [ed]
AG: id instead of xml:id
08:23:11 [ed]
CL: needs change in operatorscript
08:24:15 [ed]
ED: text isn't colored
08:24:56 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/text-edit-201-t.svg
08:27:25 [ed]
(WG) tentatively approved, pending reference image from opera
08:27:35 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/styling-inherit-03-t.svg
08:28:59 [ed]
(WG) approved
08:29:13 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/styling-pres-01-t.svg
08:33:17 [ed]
(WG) approved
08:36:21 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svgmatrix-202-t.svg
08:38:21 [ed]
CL: not wellformed
08:38:29 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svgmatrix-201-t.svg
08:38:52 [ed]
(WG) approved
08:39:27 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svgpath-202-t.svg
08:45:17 [ed]
ED: the spec needs to be clarified on how many parameters each path command has, and how close is normalized
08:46:12 [ed]
(WG) approved, but the spec needs to be updated
08:48:37 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svgpath-201-t.svg
08:49:01 [ed]
ED: so this is assuming QUAD_TO isn't normalized to CURVE_TO, but the spec says you must do that
08:49:37 [ChrisL]
452 of 574 tests are now approved
08:50:08 [ed]
(WG) revoke approval of udom-svgpath-201
08:54:29 [ed]
(WG) revoke approval of udom-svgpath-202
08:54:37 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/testsuite/1.2T/svg/udom-svgmatrix-202-t.svg
08:55:51 [ed]
(WG) approved
08:56:34 [ChrisL]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertible_matrix
08:58:14 [ed]
CL: SVG_MATRIX_NOT_INVERTABLE is what it says in spec, but it's really a typo
08:58:30 [ed]
...can't change it now, since it was in 1.1 as well, but we should make a note of it
09:00:00 [ChrisL]
s/it was/the constant is used/
09:17:25 [ChrisL]
after a cvs update .... 464 of 574 tests are approved
09:20:27 [shepazu]
scribeNick: shepazu
09:20:35 [shepazu]
chair: Erik
09:20:50 [shepazu]
Topic: Progress Events
09:20:51 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-progress-events-20071023
09:21:30 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-progress-events-20080521/
09:25:45 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-progress-events-20080521/#Change
09:26:38 [MikeSmith]
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09:27:12 [shepazu]
aemmons: progressEvents is referenced by JSR-287
09:27:24 [shepazu]
... but not in the SVG namespace
09:31:15 [shepazu]
ed: one difference it that it doesn't bubble in the WebAPI spec
09:31:25 [shepazu]
shepazu: do we need that?
09:32:09 [shepazu]
... I can think of a use case... if you have a group with a lot of resources, you might want to put the listener on that group and see which resources resolve...
09:32:21 [shepazu]
... we can bring that up to WebAPI
09:33:31 [shepazu]
ed: maybe we could remove this from SVG 1.2 Tiny
09:34:08 [shepazu]
aemmons: I'd be concerned about other specs that reference us... they rely on this
09:35:18 [shepazu]
aemmons: if the ProgressEvents spec become stable we could make a later revision of SVG that normatively references it
09:37:36 [shepazu]
first version is here http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-progress-events-20070419/
09:38:18 [shepazu]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/webapi/progress/Progress.html?rev=1.2
09:41:07 [shepazu]
ChrisL: there are some incompatibilities, especially regarding event names
09:46:00 [shepazu]
ed: I'm not sure there are serious incompatibilities... as long as the interface remains the same, we can map our names to theirs
09:47:25 [Zakim]
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09:47:53 [Zakim]
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09:48:10 [ChrisL]
zakim, remind me in 7 hours to go home
09:48:10 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisL
09:50:41 [shepazu]
aemmons: it looks like ProgressEvents is a superset of our interface, modulo the event names, which is good
09:51:29 [shepazu]
Resolution: SVG 1.2 Tiny will keep its progress events, but we will monitor the ProgressEvents spec and encourage compatibility, with the intent to normatively reference it in a later SVG spec
09:53:59 [shepazu]
aemmons: so we need test for our progress events
11:02:28 [MikeSmith]
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11:37:45 [ChrisL]
scribenick: zlatinski
11:38:55 [ChrisL]
Topic: Interest Group
11:39:22 [zlatinski]
kEED> Interest group is the starting topic
11:40:48 [shepazu]
DS: SVG IG started from 2 sources
11:41:16 [shepazu]
1) long-standing desire to get more designers involved in SVG WG
11:42:54 [shepazu]
(note: the CSS WG tried this, not very successfully... it backfired when the designers were assumed to be comfortable with the spec-producing process, and got frustrated... it came out as negative PR in their blogs)
11:43:54 [shepazu]
2) a conversation with MikeSmith about getting Japanese members more involved by allowing them to communicate in their native language and cultural environment
11:43:54 [ChrisL]
SVG IG home http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/
11:44:00 [ChrisL]
charter http://www.w3.org/2007/11/SVG_rechartering/SVG-IG-charter.html
11:44:14 [ChrisL]
participants http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=42368
11:44:31 [ChrisL]
patent policy status http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/42368/status
11:45:07 [zlatinski]
DS> the current Micron thinking is to use the current community of helping with testing, or similar or leverage the community to get better results.
11:45:45 [shepazu]
s/DS>/DS:/
11:45:55 [ChrisL]
s/kEED>/ED:/
11:46:18 [zlatinski]
CL: I've sent some links on that topic
11:46:22 [ChrisL]
We need to figure out a chair, then get wider involvement
11:47:25 [zlatinski]
AE: We need to brainstormed
11:47:33 [zlatinski]
ED: Some people are frustrated of not working on SVG full
11:48:35 [ed]
s/of not working on SVG full/of the apparent lack of progress on SVG 1.2 full/
11:49:32 [ChrisL]
I promoted the SVG IG at LGM3 (my slides: http://www.w3.org/Talks/2008/LGM3/cover.svg )
11:49:38 [zlatinski]
AE: Can somebody write a white paper of the relationship of the different SVG standards?
11:50:20 [zlatinski]
DS: We need to assign somebody to do that, otherwise it would not happen
11:51:24 [zlatinski]
AE: Something like SVG tiny and SVG full is superset of it and also different modules
11:53:01 [anthony]
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11:53:03 [ChrisL]
Good to talk with some designers who are using SVG now, get them to interview us to get the speaking points, then design a flyer that makes that communication
11:53:06 [anthony]
scribe: anthony
11:53:47 [anthony]
ED: Should we assign someone to reach out
12:01:10 [anthony]
AE: We need to get designers who use Inkscape and authoring tools to join the IG
12:01:33 [anthony]
DS: Yes we also need to get people who are designers that aren't using SVG
12:01:52 [anthony]
... we need their input to find out what would make it more persuasive to use
12:02:11 [anthony]
AE: We need to get at the SVG experts who are currently making SVG services on the IG as well
12:04:21 [anthony]
DS: We need to make SVG such that they don't care its SVG until they start associating it with cool graphical features
12:04:40 [anthony]
CL: Some people are using SVG for its openess
12:05:49 [ChrisL]
in particular for interchange between authoring tools
12:06:20 [anthony]
TZ: You could make it more known graphical designers for example if they knew that browsers displayed
12:07:27 [anthony]
... as soon as they start caring that whatever they do doesn't work on their platform they will start finding tools that do
12:08:36 [anthony]
DS: Maybe we can sell the idea that you can get the source of the SVG and change it to make it how they like and repost
12:14:49 [ChrisL]
http://www.codedread.com/ adds the renesis plugin to the support matrix
12:15:28 [ChrisL]
http://www.codedread.com/svg-support.php
12:20:51 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to approach potential chairs and activity leaders for the SVG IG
12:20:52 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2031 - Approach potential chairs and activity leaders for the SVG IG [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-05-29].
12:23:27 [anthony]
ACTION: DS to find a leader for the Japanese chapter of the SVG IG
12:23:27 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2032 - Find a leader for the Japanese chapter of the SVG IG [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-05-29].
12:26:34 [shepazu]
patent policy says "This group does not produce deliverables that are covered by the W3C Patent Policy and therefore have no licensing obligations related to the deliverables they produce. "
12:26:41 [ChrisL]
From the IG charter: "The SVG Interest Group provides an opportunity to share perspectives on the topic addressed by this charter. W3C reminds Interest Group participants of their obligation to comply with patent disclosure obligations as set out in Section 6 of the W3C Patent Policy. While the Interest Group does not produce Recommendation-track documents, when Interest Group participants review Recommendation-track specifications from Working Groups, the patent
12:27:12 [ChrisL]
Thus, contributions to the IG would need an RF license from the authors same as for a submission)
12:27:25 [ChrisL]
above truncated quote from http://www.w3.org/2007/11/SVG_rechartering/SVG-IG-charter.html
12:27:33 [ed]
ed has joined #svg
12:28:40 [anthony]
CL: We need to make all the patent stuff obvious on the IF Wiki and front page
12:28:47 [anthony]
s/CL:/DS:/
12:28:56 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/
12:29:08 [anthony]
s/CL: /DS: /
12:29:10 [ed]
s/IF Wiki/IG Wiki/
12:31:03 [anthony]
CL: If they are employed by a member company, they are nominated by their AC rep
12:31:32 [anthony]
... if they are not part of a member company then we go through invited expert root
12:38:40 [anthony]
DS: We need to have some easy we to have someone join the interest group
12:39:52 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to Update the SVG IG page with instructions on how to join
12:39:52 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2033 - Update the SVG IG page with instructions on how to join [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-05-29].
12:42:04 [ChrisL]
invited expert approval http://www.w3.org/2004/08/invexp.html
13:10:59 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG_in_text-html
13:11:14 [anthony]
Topic: SVG in HTML
13:11:40 [anthony]
DS: I wondered why in my absence this page was edited
13:11:56 [anthony]
AE: So we had discussed finalised requirements before coming to the F2F
13:12:06 [anthony]
... those changes I did were from the telcons we had
13:12:15 [anthony]
... it's not set in stone
13:12:31 [anthony]
DS: I disagree with removing where the requirements were coming from
13:12:38 [anthony]
... some of these requirements conflict
13:12:48 [anthony]
AE: I don't agree with that
13:13:03 [anthony]
CL: So the previous page had details of where things where coming from
13:13:15 [anthony]
... it's useful information to retrain
13:13:25 [anthony]
ED: So you can go back in the history and readd it
13:13:40 [anthony]
CL: Get the previous revision and paste it up the top
13:14:16 [anthony]
AE: Our intention was to have unified requirements that didn't conflict
13:26:03 [anthony]
CL: Maceij makes a point in his email that the SVG in XHTML already works
13:26:05 [anthony]
...I think this should be style that is encouraged for SVG in HTML otherwise authors will get confused.
13:32:45 [anthony]
... XHTML should be the format encouraged to use
13:33:11 [anthony]
... because it's known to work today - proven deployment format for CDF
13:38:55 [anthony]
AE: Doug what is your preference to approach the problem?
13:39:08 [anthony]
... do we want to hand it off to an XML parser or do we want to define a parsing
13:40:41 [shepazu]
s/define a parsing/define a parsing model that works in HTML/
13:40:45 [anthony]
DS: Neither the extension element or bare root element doesn't require one of those. That problem is different to the parsing problem
13:41:19 [anthony]
... So I'm not an implementor but the implements have been represented as saying they do not want to switch parsers in the middle of parsing
13:41:49 [anthony]
... not sure how legitimate that is, I've heard reports from different people
13:43:58 [anthony]
ED: I guess that was Opera's statement
13:44:10 [anthony]
... the developer I spoke to at Opera was more in favor of using an XML parser
13:44:19 [anthony]
... because it's already implemented
13:44:29 [anthony]
... saves time and energy in testing
13:44:55 [anthony]
AE: I 100% agree
13:45:06 [anthony]
... sending the XML portion to the XML parser is the natural thing to do
13:47:01 [aemmons]
AE: The argument that it breaks streaming parers is invalid, we've been able to stream and send to other persers fine.
13:47:14 [aemmons]
s/persers/parsers/
13:47:25 [anthony]
DS: [presents example]
13:47:28 [ed]
s/parers/parsers/
13:47:32 [anthony]
DS: What do you do?
13:47:41 [anthony]
... at what point do you chunk it out and send it to another parser?
13:47:46 [anthony]
... after parsing the ext element
13:47:50 [anthony]
...?
13:47:54 [anthony]
... where does it end?/
13:48:14 [anthony]
AE: So do we need a little bit of information about their parser
13:48:44 [anthony]
... but I don't know how the parsing model works I've never looked at it
13:49:07 [anthony]
... and that's what they proposed
13:49:17 [anthony]
... they added a special parsing state for SVG and MathML
13:49:27 [anthony]
... and flags for switching between the states
13:50:21 [anthony]
AE: One simplistic way of doing it is parsing it the way of the HTML model and then you send it to the XML
13:50:32 [anthony]
DS: No wait that's not the end of the ext element
13:50:37 [anthony]
... so this is my point
13:51:01 [anthony]
... when we have content that is not well formed their argument is the strongest
13:51:15 [anthony]
... when content is well formed SVG doesn't have a problem
13:53:19 [anthony]
[Brain storming about the problem]
14:03:10 [anthony]
AE: Even though the HTML parser is going to parse the SVG it's going to parse unquoted attributes etc and that's what we don't want
14:03:27 [anthony]
TZ: Mozilla uses a 3 phase approach for parsing
14:04:40 [anthony]
... so when they see something that is HTML they use HTML parser and when there i something they don't recognise they switch to XHTML
14:04:56 [anthony]
ED: That's something similar I was discussing with people in Opera
14:06:09 [anthony]
TZ: Mozilla uses expat with a patch to parse HTML
14:06:40 [anthony]
... the 2nd phase is creating the nodes
14:07:07 [anthony]
... the 3rd phase is doing the reflow
14:07:29 [anthony]
... they push chunks to the reflow
14:07:45 [anthony]
... then after the reflow they start drawing
14:15:18 [anthony]
...if the parser doesn't recognise that unformed element we get an element error
14:15:28 [anthony]
... if we don't recognise the namespace you keep it in the DOM
14:15:46 [anthony]
...but just don't know how to handle it
14:16:30 [anthony]
DS: So it puts it in the DOM but don't do anything with it
14:16:42 [anthony]
... would it kickback to HTML?
14:16:58 [anthony]
TZ: this content provider will tell you what nodes you allow
14:17:06 [anthony]
... or don't allow
14:17:15 [anthony]
... as soon as you encounter an SVG element you start using something like an XML parser
14:17:20 [anthony]
... so you keep parsing until you encounter something that you don't understand
14:17:31 [anthony]
... so you go back to the invoker and say you are at an element condition what to do. The content provider may say
14:17:38 [anthony]
... if I break here the everything breaks, so you may want to find the last closing string
14:18:02 [anthony]
DS: So saying parsing something off to the XML parser is not helpful we'll just get mocked
14:21:31 [anthony]
TZ: So there is a draw back, the host language needs to pass down information to tell you where to render at. In SVG you know the dimensions.
14:21:49 [anthony]
ED: In XTML it’s the same. You can use CSS to define the width and the height
14:21:57 [anthony]
... You can also use the containing element thing using a div, choose different block nodes
14:22:03 [anthony]
... So that’s the box model that’s used.
14:22:14 [anthony]
TZ: Need some guidelines
14:22:23 [anthony]
ED: So HTML 5 would have to write something about the problem
14:22:40 [anthony]
... I don't see how it's different from XHTML
14:22:52 [anthony]
DS: This area we can all explore with out much pain
14:23:02 [anthony]
... we that problem is the parsing model
14:24:14 [anthony]
... we all agree that the negotiation needs be defined
14:24:24 [anthony]
... the first problem is defining the parsing model
14:28:18 [anthony]
ACTION: latinski to Draft a proposal for the 3 phase parse model and the SACs based parse model
14:28:18 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - latinski
14:28:49 [shepazu]
Zakim, who do you know?
14:28:49 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, shepazu.
14:29:35 [anthony]
ACTION: antanas to Draft a proposal for the 3 phase parse model and the SACs based parse model
14:29:35 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - antanas
14:29:44 [anthony]
ACTION: atanas to Draft a proposal for the 3 phase parse model and the SACs based parse model
14:29:44 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2034 - Draft a proposal for the 3 phase parse model and the SACs based parse model [on Atanas (Tony) Zlatinski - due 2008-05-29].
14:36:19 [anthony]
DS: We need to draw up some error cases we need to handle
14:36:55 [anthony]
ED: So this example on the right so encountering the unknown element in the middle
14:36:58 [anthony]
... what happens?
14:37:11 [anthony]
... does it switch back?
14:38:24 [anthony]
TZ: As soon as you switch back to the content provider the content provider takes over
14:38:36 [anthony]
... until it reaches a known token
14:42:05 [anthony]
ACTION: Doug to draw up error case examples of SVG and HTML
14:42:05 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2035 - Draw up error case examples of SVG and HTML [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-05-29].
14:50:45 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Ext_element
14:51:04 [shepazu]
this is my <ext> proposal
14:51:34 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Ext_element#Fallback_Behavior
15:27:34 [ed]
Topic: XHTML role
15:27:36 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008May/0068.html
15:28:03 [anthony]
AE: So these are comments they sent back to us?
15:28:19 [anthony]
ED: So they are asking if this resolves our comments
15:28:25 [anthony]
... and I'm not sure it has
15:28:59 [anthony]
... so for example they are saying they don't have a RelaxNG schema
15:29:24 [anthony]
... and they are kind of writing that they will do it eventually
15:31:13 [anthony]
AE: So you asked them for the second point there to add some attributes
15:31:27 [anthony]
... to help align pros in SVG
15:32:28 [shepazu]
s/pros/prose/
15:34:33 [anthony]
CL: What I suggest is we prepare response that has a RelaxNG
15:35:25 [anthony]
... and tell them that it doesn't require as much infrastructure as DTDs etc
15:36:30 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/
15:36:51 [anthony]
CL: What's this XHML vocab document?
15:37:27 [anthony]
... once we define some we should ask them how to get them in the document?
15:38:16 [ChrisL]
ok thanks for the link
15:38:35 [ChrisL]
it says its for all vocabularies that use xhtml mod (like SVG 1.1 for example)
15:39:41 [anthony]
ED: So according to this if we have to specify the roles ourself they would have to be prefixed with a qualifier
15:40:23 [anthony]
... Judging by that it would be favorable to have them in this document [link above]
15:40:34 [anthony]
... I guess we are still not clear which roles we want to have
15:40:45 [anthony]
CL: That would be another thing we could hand off to an IG
15:40:56 [anthony]
... we could define a bunch of roles to do with maps for example
15:41:00 [anthony]
... and same for charts
15:41:06 [anthony]
... they are the two big things
15:41:11 [anthony]
DS: Diagrams
15:41:25 [anthony]
CL: By charts I mean graphs
15:41:44 [anthony]
DS: Subway maps, flow charts, that class of thing
15:41:54 [anthony]
CL: We can share some in common
15:42:04 [anthony]
... have a call out box saying that this means that
15:42:13 [anthony]
DS: A legend would be common to a map and a chart
15:43:45 [anthony]
ACTION: Chris to Try to write the RNG for XHTML role module and respond to the email
15:43:45 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-2036 - Try to write the RNG for XHTML role module and respond to the email [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-05-29].
15:45:36 [anthony]
DS: How would you guys would prefer to add role to SVG
15:45:46 [anthony]
... as an attribute
15:47:04 [anthony]
AE: Would that add a dependency to 1.2/
15:49:05 [anthony]
DS: It says that we can reference it in our name space
15:49:11 [anthony]
CL: That's probably the best way forward
15:49:37 [anthony]
DS: I agree with you that we should put it in our own module
15:49:49 [anthony]
... because along with it we define a list of roles to do
15:49:52 [anthony]
... and how they work
15:49:57 [anthony]
... and incorporate the aria stuff
15:50:03 [anthony]
CL: There are various ways to combine that
15:50:30 [anthony]
... so the reason we want it there is so it's unprefixed
15:50:49 [anthony]
DS: We wouldn't have to prefix it because it's part of our language
15:51:07 [anthony]
AE: Kind of makes sense to define our own module with our roles defined
15:52:39 [anthony]
Resolution: We will make a module that incorporates the role attribute and work with Wai Aria as well as other domain experts to define a set of roles in our module
16:10:30 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/42368/instructions
16:32:37 [anthony]
zakim, bye
16:32:37 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #svg
16:32:53 [anthony]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:32:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/22-svg-minutes.html anthony
16:48:11 [Zakim]
ChrisL, you asked to be reminded at this time to go home
17:52:00 [zlatinski]
zlatinski has joined #svg