12:42:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xmlsec
12:42:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-xmlsec-irc
12:42:28 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:42:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xmlsec
12:42:30 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be XMLSEC
12:42:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
12:42:31 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: XML Security Specifications Maintenance Working Group Teleconference
12:42:31 <trackbot-ng> Date: 06 May 2008
12:42:44 <fjh> Regrets: Sean Mullan
12:42:50 <fjh> Chair: Frederick Hirsch
12:43:15 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008May/0002.html
12:56:32 <Zakim> T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has now started
12:56:39 <Zakim> +Frederick_Hirsch
12:58:11 <CGI616> CGI616 has joined #xmlsec
12:58:29 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
12:58:47 <CGI616> CGI616 has left #xmlsec
12:59:04 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
12:59:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, James_Nurthen
12:59:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
12:59:08 <jcc> jcc has joined #xmlsec
12:59:24 <pdatta> pdatta has joined #xmlsec
12:59:42 <fjh> James_Nurthen is pdatta
12:59:50 <Zakim> +shivaram
12:59:54 <fjh> zakim, James_Nurthen is pdatta
12:59:54 <Zakim> +pdatta; got it
13:00:02 <shivaram> shivaram has joined #xmlsec
13:00:19 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:00:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, pdatta, shivaram
13:00:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see shivaram, pdatta, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:00:28 <Zakim> +??P9
13:00:31 <Zakim> +Ed_Simon
13:00:41 <fjh> zakim, P9 is jcc
13:00:41 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
13:00:53 <shivaram> Zakim, who is here?
13:00:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, pdatta, shivaram, ??P9, Ed_Simon
13:00:55 <fjh> zakim, +??P9 is jcc
13:00:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see shivaram, pdatta, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:01:00 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named '+??P9'
13:01:09 <fjh> zakim, ??P9 is jcc
13:01:10 <Zakim> +Hal_Lockhart
13:01:14 <Zakim> +jcc; got it
13:01:22 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:01:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, pdatta, shivaram, jcc, Ed_Simon, Hal_Lockhart
13:01:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see shivaram, pdatta, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:02:35 <EdS> EdS has joined #xmlsec
13:02:38 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
13:02:38 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
13:02:40 <Zakim> +Thomas
13:02:44 <Zakim> +brich
13:02:50 <brich> brich has joined #xmlsec
13:03:00 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:03:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, pdatta, shivaram, jcc, Ed_Simon, Hal_Lockhart, Thomas, brich
13:03:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see brich, EdS, shivaram, pdatta, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:03:20 <fjh> Scribe: Shivaram Mysore
13:03:25 <tlr> ScribeNick: shivaram
13:03:27 <Zakim> +??P0
13:03:35 <shivaram> TOPIC: 1c) Message has been sent to WS-I Basic Security Profile (BSP) group 
13:03:35 <shivaram> re DNames
13:03:52 <fjh> zakim, ??P0 is konrad
13:03:52 <Zakim> +konrad; got it
13:03:54 <tlr> zakim, mute ??P0
13:03:54 <Zakim> sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??P0
13:03:58 <tlr> zakim, mute konrad
13:03:58 <Zakim> konrad should now be muted
13:04:13 <shivaram> TOPIC: Administrative
13:04:32 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:04:32 <Zakim> sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
13:04:35 <tlr> zakim, I am thomas
13:04:35 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
13:04:37 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:04:37 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:04:40 <shivaram> Should we need to have a meeting next week on May 13th?
13:04:43 <rdmiller> rdmiller has joined #xmlsec
13:05:08 <tlr> whoever is speaking there is being chopped up badly
13:05:11 <EdS> Incomprehensible to me.
13:05:12 <shivaram> Shivaram suggests having a meeting next week
13:05:15 <brich> i will not be able to make next week
13:05:45 <tlr> regrets from me
13:05:50 <rdmiller> I will not be able to attend today due to an unexpected commitment. Regrets, Rob Miller.
13:06:00 <hal> hal has joined #xmlsec
13:06:29 <shivaram> next meeting decision to be made at the end of this meeting
13:07:31 <fjh> minutes approval http://www.w3.org/2008/04/15-xmlsec-minutes.html
13:07:48 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: Minutes from April 15, 2008 approved
13:07:59 <tlr> will do
13:08:09 <shivaram> TOPIC: AC Review
13:08:28 <shivaram> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2008AprJun/0022.html
13:09:14 <jcc> q+
13:09:30 <shivaram> Note: All please have your AC reps to complete the questionnaire
13:09:54 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
13:09:54 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
13:09:54 <klanz2> klanz2 has joined #xmlsec
13:10:41 <jcc> q-
13:10:58 <shivaram> pdatta: question on the questionnaire about intention of implementations - are we held responsible for this?
13:11:20 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:11:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, pdatta, shivaram, jcc, Ed_Simon, Hal_Lockhart, Thomas, brich, konrad (muted)
13:11:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see klanz2, hal, brich, EdS, shivaram, pdatta, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:11:30 <PHB> PHB has joined #xmlsec
13:11:37 <fjh> ack jcc
13:11:39 <shivaram> Thomas responds that answers are neve made public and is just for info sake
13:11:44 <PHB> zakim, code?
13:11:44 <Zakim> the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), PHB
13:11:50 <fjh> s/neve/never
13:11:50 <tlr> tlr: no, the purpose of that question is to enable The Director to make an informed judgment whether there is critical mass for moving ahead.
13:12:05 <Zakim> +PHB
13:12:10 <tlr> ... that is obviously about the intention with which you go into this, not about a formal product commitment, or anything like that ...
13:12:37 <shivaram> TOPIC: F2F Planning
13:13:24 <shivaram> klanz2: if # of people <25/30, it should not be a problem to host
13:13:44 <klanz2> s/klanz2/JCC/
13:13:59 <shivaram> not much of constraints in terms of date 15-17 July
13:14:13 <klanz2> q+
13:14:29 <klanz2> q-
13:14:41 <klanz2> q-
13:14:42 <tlr> ack kl
13:15:17 <tlr> zakim, mute klanz2
13:15:17 <Zakim> klanz2 should now be muted
13:15:25 <shivaram> klanz2 can also become a possible host in Barcelona
13:15:43 <shivaram> s/Barcelona/Gratz
13:15:48 <tlr> It's Graz
13:15:51 <tlr> ;-)
13:15:56 <klanz2> s/Barcelona/Graz/
13:15:59 <shivaram> s/Gratz/Graz
13:16:02 <shivaram> thanks
13:16:04 <klanz2> ;-)
13:16:26 <shivaram> TOPIC: XML Signature, Second Edition, Issues
13:16:30 <tlr> s/Barcelona/Graz/
13:16:46 <shivaram> TOPIC: Editorial fix
13:16:58 <tlr> RESOLUTION: editorial fixes as outlined in 6a and 6c
13:17:17 <shivaram> TOPIC: References corrections
13:17:46 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0033.html
13:17:53 <klanz2> q+
13:18:52 <shivaram> fjh: References for namespaces and Unicode - fixing errata and clarification - shall we update this
13:18:55 <fjh> ack klanz
13:19:03 <klanz2> http://www.w3.org/XML/xml-V10-4e-errata#E10
13:20:03 <tlr> ick, this sounds nasty
13:20:25 <shivaram> klanz2: implementation may have to do something like this: 1.1 doc may be processed as 1.0 doc if there is no namespace
13:20:39 <klanz2> http://www.w3.org/XML/xml-V10-2e-errata#E16
13:21:18 <tlr> q+
13:21:33 <tlr> q-
13:21:43 <shivaram> klanz2: There is direct use of RFC usage, but no normative reference
13:21:51 <tlr> s/RFC usage/RFC 3986/
13:24:36 <shivaram> klanz2: There was no consistent usage of namespace in 1.0.  There could be some breaking changes depending on how the character sets are handled
13:26:42 <shivaram> Shivaram suggests that we should add a note that at the point of writing the spec, we see the following issues ...
13:26:58 <shivaram> <note issues here?
13:27:06 <shivaram> s/>/?
13:27:41 <tlr> q+
13:28:28 <klanz2> s/There was no consistent usage of namespace in 1.0./There was no consistent usage of namespace in namespaces 1.0. and namespaces 1.1/
13:29:02 <shivaram> tlr: if we see that the change causes implementation differences, then we should be hesitant to make the change
13:29:08 <klanz2> ie. namespaces 1.1 have no namespace undeclarations
13:29:27 <klanz2> s/namespaces 1.1 have no namespace undeclarations/namespaces 1.0 have no namespace undeclarations/
13:31:07 <fjh> s/fadig/fading
13:33:43 <klanz2> I think by adopting this we, implicitly define XPath datamodel for a subset of XML 1.1, which is good, isn't it?
13:34:19 <klanz2> this subset of xml 1.1 is the one not using namespaces 1.1?
13:34:48 <tlr> no, we don't make that definition. The erratum says that an XML 1.0 processor can treat certain documents as XML 1.0 even though are called  XML 1.1 IF they do not use non-XML 1.0 features.
13:34:49 <klanz2> s/not using namespaces/not using namespace undeclarations/
13:35:13 <tlr> So we are not updating it to permit XML 1.1 documents.
13:35:17 <klanz2> @tlr fine with me ...
13:35:45 <EdS> The connection seems to be getting worse and worse.
13:35:55 <shivaram> If we are working on this issue, then who is going to be working on this?
13:36:03 <shivaram> Konrad, FJH, TLR?
13:36:16 <klanz2> So what we say is then the subset of xml 1.1 with namespaces 1.1, that does not use namespace undeclreations is treated as an xml 1.0 ...
13:37:07 <shivaram> I would suggest Konrad to write this snippet as he seems to be more aware of this impact
13:37:58 <shivaram> and then send the snippet to XML WG for review
13:39:30 <shivaram> pdatta: what is the impact on conformance for markup?
13:39:49 <shivaram> tlr suggests that we talk to the coordination group
13:40:03 <shivaram> and is not specific to XML Signature
13:40:19 <shivaram> as it affects the parser
13:41:24 <shivaram> I would suggest checking with others before making resolution
13:42:53 <shivaram> ACTION: tlr, Write assumptions to references update
13:42:53 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - tlr,
13:43:18 <shivaram> ACTION: tlr to write assumptions to references update
13:43:18 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-152 - Write assumptions to references update [on Thomas Roessler - due 2008-05-13].
13:44:10 <shivaram> TOPIC: Unicode - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0034.html
13:44:18 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0034.html
13:48:33 <tlr> q+ to ask that we come back to the xml 4e question
13:48:45 <shivaram> Proposal by FJH to leave this alone
13:49:12 <shivaram> Pdatta: remove the reference to Unicode
13:49:33 <klanz2> s/pdatta/klanz2/
13:49:40 <shivaram> sorry - thanks!
13:49:47 <brich> +1
13:50:14 <tlr> RESOLUTION: drop unused Unicode reference
13:50:15 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: Remove the Unicode reference
13:50:24 <tlr> s/RESOLUTION: drop unused Unicode reference//
13:50:27 <tlr> q-
13:52:36 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#errata
13:53:09 <shivaram> tlr: according to process document, if there is errata for a normative spec, then they would not impact conformance for that version of this specification, but, the errata must be included in the next version and hence would be in conformance as per process then
13:53:54 <klanz2> +1 to tlr for fourth edition
13:54:50 <tlr> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: update xml reference to 4e, namespaces to 2e
13:54:53 <fjh> update xml reference to 4th edition and namespace reference to 2nd edition
13:55:10 <brich> +1, makes sense given the Process...errata reference
13:55:20 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: update xml reference to 4th edition and namespace reference to 2nd edition
13:55:24 <PHB2> PHB2 has joined #xmlsec
13:55:50 <shivaram> TOPIC: Update to v1 XML Signature and Encryption web pages
13:56:26 <tlr> rrsagent, drop action 1
13:56:30 <tlr> rrsagent, drop action 2
13:56:31 <shivaram> TOPIC: Relax NG Schema
13:56:41 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-152
13:56:41 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-152 Write assumptions to references update closed
13:56:52 <shivaram> zakim, mute me
13:56:52 <Zakim> shivaram should now be muted
13:57:49 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008May/0005.html
13:58:05 <klanz2> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008May/att-0005/dsig.rnc
13:58:34 <shivaram> Norm has noted that the RNG schema provided has little testing and review
13:58:50 <shivaram> FJH: looking for volunteers to look at this
13:59:00 <klanz2> What's the time frame for this?
13:59:18 <shivaram> Who uses RNG in the group?
13:59:29 <tlr> q+
13:59:35 <klanz2> We dont use RNG ...
13:59:40 <klanz2> ack klanz2
13:59:56 <tlr> uh, there's echo here
14:00:09 <tlr> q+
14:00:09 <klanz2> http://xml.apache.org/xalan-j/apidocs/javax/xml/XMLConstants.html#RELAXNG_NS_URI
14:00:11 <pdatta> I will give it a try too
14:00:20 <shivaram> klanz2 will give it a try
14:00:22 <tlr> ack tlr
14:00:24 <tlr> ack thomas
14:01:08 <fjh> q?
14:01:51 <shivaram> Thanks to David for suggesting Norm and Norm for the RNG work
14:02:09 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008May/0004.html
14:02:26 <shivaram> TOPIC:  Review request for XMLHttpRequest
14:02:37 <klanz2> ;-)
14:03:35 <shivaram> If WG memebers have comments, please send them to the list.
14:03:43 <klanz2> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-XMLHttpRequest-20080415/#security
14:03:55 <klanz2> ;-)
14:04:03 <shivaram> TOPIC:  Review request for XMLHttpRequest
14:04:05 <shivaram> sorry
14:04:08 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html
14:04:17 <shivaram> TOPIC: Progressing test case document to W3C Note
14:04:40 <fjh> Proposed Resolution to accept shortname "xmldsig2ed-tests"
14:04:55 <shivaram> +1
14:04:55 <hal> not that short ;)
14:05:17 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: accept shortname "xmldsig2ed-tests"
14:06:03 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: publish test case document with the short name  "xmldsig2ed-tests"
14:06:26 <shivaram> ACTOIN: fjh to make the transition request
14:06:44 <shivaram> ACTION: tlr to make the publication of test case document happen
14:06:44 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-153 - Make the publication of test case document happen [on Thomas Roessler - due 2008-05-13].
14:06:49 <fjh> action: fjh to make transition request for test case document
14:06:50 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-154 - Make transition request for test case document [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2008-05-13].
14:07:22 <shivaram> TOPIC: Best Practices
14:07:31 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0018.html
14:07:59 <shivaram> TOPIC: Process
14:08:10 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0026.html
14:08:13 <shivaram> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0026.html
14:10:21 <shivaram> TOPIC: Timestamps and Nonces (Hal)
14:10:32 <shivaram> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0018.html
14:12:06 <shivaram> hal does not have cycles to become an editor, but, can contribute
14:13:37 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: accept material from Hal
14:14:20 <shivaram> TOPIC: limiting the transforms (pdatta)
14:14:25 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008May/att-0000/00-part
14:14:35 <shivaram> signing XML vs signing Binary
14:14:50 <jcc> q+
14:14:59 <klanz2> Do people know that ? http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/xmlsec.txt
14:15:10 <jcc> zakim, unmute jcc
14:15:10 <Zakim> jcc should no longer be muted
14:15:34 <klanz2> Should be a rich source of dont's ;-)
14:15:50 <klanz2> http://www.isecpartners.com/files/iSEC_HILL_AttackingXMLSecurity_bh07.pdf,
14:15:50 <klanz2> http://www.isecpartners.com/files/XMLDSIG_Command_Injection.pdf, and
14:15:50 <klanz2> http://www.isecpartners.com/files/iSEC_HILL_AttackingXMLSecurity_Handout.pdf.
14:16:27 <Zakim> -PHB
14:17:53 <klanz2> FJH: had this here http://www.w3.org/2007/09/25-xmlsec-minutes
14:18:09 <klanz2> q+
14:18:22 <klanz2> ack klanz
14:19:09 <fjh> konrad suggests putting all best practices into document, even if conflicting, then review together and resolve
14:19:10 <klanz2> q-
14:19:10 <hal> q+
14:19:15 <fjh> +1
14:20:33 <klanz2> +1 to hal
14:21:09 <tlr> s/accept material from Hal/accept material from Hal as input to document/
14:22:25 <fjh> hal suggestes having security considerations and performance sections, since security not obvious
14:24:29 <klanz2> q+
14:24:34 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: accept Pratik's input
14:24:41 <jcc> q-
14:24:46 <fjh> ack hal
14:24:49 <shivaram> as reference material
14:24:57 <fjh> ack klanz
14:25:01 <tlr> s/reference material/input material/
14:25:04 <pdatta> most of my comments are derived from Brad Hill's presentations
14:25:11 <shivaram> thanks thomas
14:25:36 <shivaram> -- fjh - time check
14:26:40 <shivaram>  - no problem
14:27:22 <shivaram> too much noise
14:28:41 <shivaram> have CVS access so that folks can check in examples, tests cases, etc into the Best Practices section on the repository
14:29:07 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0029.html
14:32:33 <shivaram> Pratik had a look at Sean's input - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0029.html
14:32:48 <shivaram> fjh: could not hear you about resolution
14:33:14 <shivaram> RESOLUTION: accept Sean's input for best practices
14:33:52 <shivaram> TOPIC: Action item review
14:33:56 <klanz2> q+
14:33:59 <shivaram> all of them are still open
14:34:09 <EdS> I volunteer to scribe.
14:34:10 <tlr> fjh: proposed to skip next week, next call on the 20th
14:34:16 <tlr> q?
14:34:20 <shivaram> Next Meeting: May 20, 2008
14:34:24 <klanz2> ack klanz
14:34:28 <klanz2> q+
14:34:42 <klanz2> aob?
14:34:50 <shivaram> EDS will be the scribe for May 20 meeting
14:35:34 <klanz2> xmldsig-more?
14:35:35 <fjh> phil upate http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0004.html
14:35:35 <klanz2> iana registry
14:35:49 <klanz2> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Apr/0005.html
14:35:53 <tlr> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:35:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, pdatta, shivaram (muted), jcc, Ed_Simon, Hal_Lockhart, Thomas, brich, klanz2
14:36:30 <klanz2> q-
14:36:33 <klanz2> bye
14:36:36 <shivaram> zakim, unmute me
14:36:37 <Zakim> shivaram should no longer be muted
14:36:55 <Zakim> -Thomas
14:36:56 <Zakim> -pdatta
14:36:58 <Zakim> -jcc
14:36:59 <Zakim> -Hal_Lockhart
14:37:00 <Zakim> -brich
14:37:01 <Zakim> -Ed_Simon
14:37:05 <pdatta> pdatta has left #xmlsec
14:37:07 <jcc> jcc has left #xmlsec
14:37:26 <Zakim> -klanz2
14:37:30 <shivaram> Zakim, list participants
14:37:30 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Frederick_Hirsch, shivaram, pdatta, Ed_Simon, Hal_Lockhart, jcc, Thomas, brich, PHB, klanz2
14:37:48 <fjh> RRSAgent, make log public
14:37:57 <fjh> RRSAgent, generate minutes
14:37:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-xmlsec-minutes.html fjh
14:38:15 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Group/Scribe-Instructions.html
14:38:56 <shivaram> I am not able to access it
14:39:03 <shivaram> got it
14:39:27 <shivaram> I will clean up and send it
14:39:58 <Zakim> -shivaram
14:39:59 <Zakim> -Frederick_Hirsch
14:39:59 <Zakim> T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has ended
14:40:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Frederick_Hirsch, shivaram, pdatta, Ed_Simon, Hal_Lockhart, jcc, Thomas, brich, PHB, klanz2
16:54:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #xmlsec
17:35:45 <PHB2> PHB2 has left #xmlsec