IRC log of xhtml on 2008-04-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:38:05 [RRSAgent]
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- 13:38:05 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-irc
- 13:38:11 [Zakim]
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- 13:38:21 [Steven]
- zakim, this will be xhtml
- 13:38:21 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
- 13:38:30 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:38:43 [Steven]
- Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
- 13:39:03 [Lachy]
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- 13:40:20 [Roland]
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- 13:41:41 [Zakim]
- IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
- 13:41:47 [Zakim]
- + +0138687aaaa
- 13:42:06 [myakura]
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- 13:42:07 [Roland]
- Zakim, aaaa is Roland
- 13:42:08 [Zakim]
- +Roland; got it
- 13:42:59 [RolandMerrick]
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- 13:43:14 [RolandMerrick]
- RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001.html
- 13:44:04 [Zakim]
- +??P9
- 13:44:18 [Steven]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001
- 13:44:22 [Steven]
- Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001
- 13:44:49 [Roland]
- Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
- 13:44:51 [yamx]
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- 13:45:11 [Roland]
- Chair: Roland
- 13:45:27 [Roland]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Apr/0001.html
- 13:45:43 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 13:45:43 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 13:45:45 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 13:46:07 [Steven]
- zakim, who is here?
- 13:46:07 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Roland, ??P9, Steven
- 13:46:08 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see yamx, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
- 13:46:26 [Zakim]
- +ShaneM
- 13:46:29 [Steven]
- zakim, ??P9 is alessio
- 13:46:29 [Zakim]
- +alessio; got it
- 13:47:38 [oedipus]
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- 13:48:17 [Zakim]
- +Gregory_Rosmaita
- 13:49:02 [yamx]
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- 13:49:05 [Zakim]
- +??P12
- 13:49:20 [yamx]
- Zakim, P12 is yamx.
- 13:49:20 [Zakim]
- sorry, yamx, I do not recognize a party named 'P12'
- 13:49:29 [yamx]
- Zakim, ??P12 is yamx.
- 13:49:29 [Zakim]
- +yamx; got it
- 13:53:43 [oedipus]
- SP: editors of CSS Namespace contacted us to find if formal objection; we said yes, if comment rejected; spoke with chair of WG and he said it hadn't been discussed -- was a decision by fiat by the editors -- means we are in limbo awaiting a formal response from WG -- had separate discussion with CSS WG that i didn't copy to XHTML2 list because according to charter, they are member-only, and i quoted member-only text so couldn't forward to XHTML2 list
- 13:53:53 [oedipus]
- scribe: oedipus
- 13:54:03 [oedipus]
- scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
- 13:54:06 [oedipus]
- scribeNick: oedipus
- 13:54:38 [oedipus]
- SP: have to go to CSS lists to read my comments; last exchange with chair was last friday, so if don't hear anything by this friday, will ping them
- 13:54:55 [oedipus]
- RM: waiting for official response from CSS working group
- 13:55:08 [oedipus]
- SP: mentioned at HTC, but only very briefly
- 13:55:13 [oedipus]
- RM: no discussion in minutes
- 13:55:20 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: Reviews
- 13:55:28 [oedipus]
- RM: XML Base Second Exition
- 13:55:36 [oedipus]
- SP: need to review because we reference it
- 13:55:44 [oedipus]
- SP: should ensure is still ok for our needs
- 13:56:22 [oedipus]
- yam: process for going back to PR
- 13:56:59 [oedipus]
- SP: if make normative changes, don't need to go back to LC, if have errata, apply to spec, then proposed edited recommendation; should be NO normative changes -- just clarifications and errata
- 13:57:19 [oedipus]
- s/back to PR/to Proposed Edited Rec
- 13:57:32 [oedipus]
- SP: can look at XML Base -- what is deadline?
- 13:57:40 [oedipus]
- RM: 30 June 2008
- 13:58:17 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Topic: CSS Namespaces Module
- 13:58:17 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: So we now have a formal issue, is that right?
- 13:58:17 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Well it turns out that the WG hadn't discussed it, and it was the editors who had decided to reject us
- 13:58:17 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01... so we are in limbo still, waiting for a reposnse from CSS WG
- 13:58:17 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Topic: XML Base
- 13:58:19 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: So we should review this?
- 13:58:21 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Well we do reference it
- 13:58:23 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Yam: What is a PER?
- 13:58:25 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: Mostly editorial and errata
- 13:58:27 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Roland: Who will review?
- 13:58:29 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01Steven: I am happy to
- 13:58:31 [Steven]
- 04stevenpemberton: 01ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 June
- 13:58:47 [Steven]
- s/Stevenpemberton: //G
- 13:58:55 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 13:58:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 13:59:03 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to review XML Base by 30 Juner
- 13:59:05 [oedipus]
- scribe: steven
- 13:59:11 [Steven]
- s/Juner/June/
- 13:59:22 [Steven]
- Topicc: FtF
- 13:59:29 [Steven]
- s/cc/c/
- 13:59:44 [Steven]
- Shane: I should have the contract finished this week, will post details after that
- 13:59:49 [Steven]
- Topic: CURIEs
- 14:00:17 [Steven]
- Steven: So the TAG comments came in before I sent the last call
- 14:00:47 [Steven]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008JanMar/0014.html
- 14:00:56 [Steven]
- Shane: So we need a WG response to these
- 14:02:06 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/03/27-minutes
- 14:02:06 [Steven]
- Shane: The minutes of the meeting where they discussed this are worth reading
- 14:02:38 [Steven]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/03/27-minutes#item02
- 14:04:17 [Steven]
- Roland: Are any of their comments no longer valid against the latest draft?
- 14:04:25 [Steven]
- SHane: I think so
- 14:04:45 [Steven]
- s/SH/Sh/
- 14:05:01 [Steven]
- ... for instance a comment about the RDFa spec
- 14:05:45 [Steven]
- Steven: Good to see "We agree RDF languages need this ... it shd be allowed to proceed"
- 14:06:32 [oedipus]
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- 14:08:43 [Steven]
- Steven: Shall I draft a reply for the group to consider?
- 14:09:18 [Steven]
- Roland: I think it should be split into several replies, one on syntax, one on background, requirements, ...
- 14:11:10 [Tina]
- Steven: the minutes posted, under issue 35
- 14:12:36 [Steven]
- Shane: Some of their issues seem not to be to the point
- 14:12:40 [Steven]
- ... or miss something
- 14:13:38 [Steven]
- Shanhe: Unfortunately this blocks the role module
- 14:13:52 [Steven]
- s/he:/e:/
- 14:15:06 [Tina]
- Ah. Thank you.
- 14:15:26 [Steven]
- Steven: THey are allowed to be one step out of sync
- 14:15:30 [Steven]
- s/TH/Th/
- 14:15:47 [Steven]
- ROland: Is role ready to go?
- 14:15:52 [markbirbeck]
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- 14:15:52 [Steven]
- s/RO/Ro/
- 14:16:03 [Steven]
- SHane: Yes
- 14:16:08 [Steven]
- s/SH/Sh/
- 14:16:52 [Steven]
- Gregory: We (WAI) arranged a special meeting with HTML5 people to discuss Aria, and no one from HTML5 turned up
- 14:16:58 [Steven]
- ... so we are ignoring them for the moment
- 14:17:08 [Steven]
- Shane: ANyway, role is ready to go
- 14:17:16 [Steven]
- s/AN/An/
- 14:17:25 [Steven]
- Roland: Then let's go
- 14:17:46 [Steven]
- SHane: We should update the public WD of Curies so we can refer to it
- 14:17:51 [Steven]
- s/SH/Sh/
- 14:18:51 [Steven]
- RESOLUTION: Produce a new public WD of CURIEs
- 14:19:07 [Steven]
- Roland: Take role to last call?
- 14:19:12 [Steven]
- [Agreement]
- 14:19:21 [Steven]
- RESOLUTION: Take role to last call
- 14:19:33 [Steven]
- ACTION: Shane to update public WD of CURIEs
- 14:19:46 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to organise last call of role
- 14:20:17 [Steven]
- ACTION: Steven to draft a reply to TAG comments on CURIEs
- 14:21:03 [Steven]
- Roland: We will discuss the comments next week
- 14:21:16 [Steven]
- Steven: I will try to attend, but I'll be at a conference
- 14:21:21 [Steven]
- Topic: XHTML Basic
- 14:23:00 [Steven]
- Steven: I sent a draft transition request to Roland, SHane and Chrtis Lilley, and spotted two editorial bugs in the spec, which should be fixed today
- 14:23:13 [Steven]
- ... I'd be happy for an OK on the transition request, and I will send it off
- 14:25:23 [Steven]
- Topic: M12N transition
- 14:27:01 [Steven]
- Roland: Status?
- 14:27:31 [Steven]
- Steven: I have sent a revised transition request with answers to Steve Batt's question to Steve Bratt, and I am awaiting a reply
- 14:27:40 [Steven]
- s/Batt/Bratt/
- 14:27:48 [Steven]
- Topic: Media type
- 14:28:35 [Steven]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0086.html
- 14:29:28 [Steven]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Mar/0071.html
- 14:29:56 [Steven]
- Shane: Olivier is asking some questions which we should answer
- 14:30:25 [Steven]
- ... I don't think the mime docuemtn should mention HTML5 since there is no normative spec
- 14:30:49 [Steven]
- Gregory: THe HTML5 WD has huge wholes
- 14:30:53 [Steven]
- s/whole/hole/
- 14:30:59 [Steven]
- s/TH/Th/
- 14:31:09 [oedipus]
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- 14:31:13 [Steven]
- ... and is nowhere near to being complete
- 14:31:25 [Steven]
- SHane: Olivier supplies a nugget of useful data
- 14:31:47 [Steven]
- ... he asks if the note can be a rec
- 14:32:08 [Steven]
- Steven: It briongs information together, it doesn't need to be a rec
- 14:32:12 [Steven]
- s/io/i/
- 14:32:32 [Steven]
- Shane: He asks if we can make the compatibility guidelines clearer
- 14:32:50 [Steven]
- ... I am trying to recast them
- 14:33:01 [ShaneM]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtmlmime-20080331/
- 14:33:46 [Steven]
- Roland: I would like us to have a document that follows the guidelines as an example
- 14:35:31 [oedipus]
- q+
- 14:36:20 [Steven]
- Steven: We need to point out that they are guidelines, and not requirements
- 14:36:45 [oedipus]
- Steven, were you referring to A.7? -- lang attribute important for natural language switching in speech output and braille output (every DAMN country has its own braille code)
- 14:37:03 [oedipus]
- same with screen magnifiers -- need to get the right charset for the lang declaration
- 14:38:01 [Steven]
- OK Oediupus, thanks
- 14:38:13 [Steven]
- and do they do xml:lang?
- 14:38:42 [oedipus]
- some do the xml:lang, such as Orca (screen-reader braille-output for GNOME)
- 14:38:44 [Steven]
- Shane: validators do something with @lang
- 14:39:02 [Steven]
- ... and I'm not sure what we should do about it
- 14:39:07 [Steven]
- ... especially with RDFa
- 14:39:33 [Steven]
- ... since XHTML1.1+RDFa does not have @lang, only @xml:lang
- 14:40:35 [Steven]
- Steven: The provblem only arises if you are unable to tell the UA the language of the document
- 14:41:08 [oedipus]
- GJR: don't have definitive list, but will check on xml:lang support especially in open source community
- 14:41:18 [Steven]
- thanks
- 14:41:21 [oedipus]
- np
- 14:41:47 [Steven]
- q?
- 14:41:54 [Steven]
- ack o
- 14:42:32 [Steven]
- Shane: THe othjer issue is about referencing style elements
- 14:42:46 [Steven]
- Shane: I think we should say not to use stylesheet declarations
- 14:42:56 [Steven]
- s/use/use XML /
- 14:43:02 [oedipus]
- GJR: commercial assistive tech vendors rely on "lang" because it is far more likely to be present (so they assume) than xml:lang
- 14:45:49 [Steven]
- Shane: Shall we keep the recommendation to use XML stylesheets?
- 14:45:58 [Steven]
- Steven: I don't think we need to
- 14:46:02 [Steven]
- ... anymore
- 14:46:09 [Zakim]
- -ShaneM
- 14:46:13 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 14:46:14 [Zakim]
- -Gregory_Rosmaita
- 14:46:14 [Zakim]
- -alessio
- 14:46:15 [Zakim]
- -Roland
- 14:46:15 [Zakim]
- -yamx
- 14:46:17 [Zakim]
- IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
- 14:46:18 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +0138687aaaa, Roland, Steven, ShaneM, alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita, yamx
- 14:46:42 [Steven]
- ... people who want to deliver it as XML know that they are there, but UAs that understand the namespace are going to do the stylesheets anyway
- 14:46:56 [Steven]
- Shane: I will update the draft and we can discuss it next week.
- 14:47:06 [Steven]
- [ADJOURN]
- 14:47:15 [Steven]
- zakim, who is here?
- 14:47:15 [Zakim]
- apparently IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended, Steven
- 14:47:16 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see oedipus, markbirbeck, myakura, Roland, Lachy, Zakim, RRSAgent, ShaneM, CSB, Tina, Steven, krijnh
- 14:47:25 [Steven]
- rrsagent, makee minutes
- 14:47:25 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'makee minutes', Steven. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 14:47:34 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:47:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 14:48:03 [Steven]
- present+Tina
- 14:48:10 [Steven]
- Present+Mark
- 14:48:20 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:48:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 14:48:54 [Steven]
- s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
- 14:48:58 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:48:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 14:49:51 [Steven]
- Steven has left #xhtml
- 14:50:01 [Steven]
- Steven has joined #xhtml
- 14:54:00 [Steven]
- s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
- 14:54:07 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:54:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 15:00:43 [Steven]
- s/04stevenpemberton: 01//G
- 15:00:54 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:00:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 15:01:48 [Steven]
- Yay!
- 15:02:04 [Steven]
- damned escapes in a substitue patters
- 15:02:45 [Steven]
- i/Topic: CSS/Scribe: Steven
- 15:02:52 [Steven]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:02:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/02-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
- 15:06:15 [ShaneM]
- thanks! tell him Thanks and that they comments look great
- 15:06:21 [oedipus]
- ok
- 15:07:41 [oedipus]
- i was disqualified from doing the review, as i am known to be an ardent advocate of RDFa
- 15:08:59 [Steven]
- lol
- 15:10:32 [oedipus]
- there is a ridiculous thread on dev-accessibility@lists.mozilla.org and the GNOME dev list about mac OS accessibility -- maciej claims that they are moving towards AT-SPI (http://a11y.org/atspi) for mac accessibility, but as for aria it is something in the future not to be discussed now...
- 16:13:08 [Lachy]
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