IRC log of aria-math on 2008-03-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:04:36 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-irc
20:04:41 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
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20:05:00 [MichaelC]
zakim, bye
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20:05:14 [jnurthen]
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20:05:32 [MichaelC]
meeting: ARIA discussion of Math
20:05:39 [MichaelC]
chair: Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:05:50 [peteb]
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20:06:14 [Rich]
scribe: oedipus
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20:06:47 [Rich]
last irc discussion thread on math: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JanMar/0453.html
20:06:47 [MichaelC]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JanMar/0547.html (first item only)
20:06:49 [oedipus]
scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
20:06:53 [oedipus]
scribeNick: oedipus
20:07:04 [oedipus]
TOPIC: math role for ARIA 1.0
20:07:45 [oedipus]
RS: trying to get your math request added to aria; think is great thing to add; want to 1) meet your needs and 2) provide best practices for embedding math
20:07:52 [oedipus]
RS: last thread in IRC
20:08:01 [Rich]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JanMar/0453.html
20:08:17 [oedipus]
AG: 19 March 2008 -- you replied, but bunch of technical details
20:08:38 [oedipus]
RS: new math role -- what does it mean? how to use? how to reuse ALT text? how to handle images?
20:09:13 [MichaelC]
present: Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Pete_Brunet, Michael_Cooper, Al_Gilman, Gregory_Rosmaita, Nei_Soiffer, James_Nurthen, Jon_Gunderson
20:09:56 [oedipus]
NS: brought up with MathML WG -- asked if had comments; some of things we discussed in PF email exchange came up -- restrictions on what type of math should be placed in a math role; MathML WG felt that a lot of stuff out, for past compatibility not good to abandon what is being done today and historically -- mix of TeX and MathML
20:10:19 [oedipus]
NS: none of them are tagged identifying what they are; existing practice wide-open and that needs to stop
20:10:38 [oedipus]
NS: sniffer trying to find math will be able to tell TeX, MathML, or similar syntax
20:10:56 [oedipus]
NS: leave open-ended and not specify
20:11:45 [oedipus]
NS: second: subtype "math-tex" -- discarded as bad idea -- to ambigous; too many TeX variants
20:12:31 [oedipus]
NS: third issue: if math, might not be any alt text in suitable format, but down the road one could use OCR to pull equation from image -- already an OCR for math with acuracy in 97% range; again, not tagged, but open ended
20:13:14 [oedipus]
NS: fourth: didn't care where it is -- BP can say "use alt text or use image" but one kind of math out there is JSMath -- uses TeX-like base to create javascripted (inaccessible) math
20:13:25 [oedipus]
NS: don't want to force math into an image that has to be parsed
20:13:52 [oedipus]
NS: no single practice -- math kind of a "wild west" frontier trying to get integrated into HTML
20:13:53 [Al]
q+
20:14:02 [oedipus]
RS: what does having role="math" help with all formats?
20:14:59 [oedipus]
NS: key thing which will allow anyone to do a11y -- 1) given cost of trying to discover math, having tag iding as math, keys a sniffer/handler to find and discover format; second) alerts AT that this is Math and calls a handler to come up with text to speak it, rather than gibberish
20:15:24 [oedipus]
we are in #aria-math for math discussion
20:15:31 [oedipus]
switch to #aria-math
20:16:05 [Jon]
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20:16:10 [kenny]
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20:16:52 [oedipus]
NS: MathML WG felt that using attribute value "math" too general (plot, diagram, formula) want to restrict it more -- suggested "formula" or MSAAEquation
20:17:02 [oedipus]
AG: MSAAEquation was the suggestion
20:17:46 [oedipus]
RS: if prefer math, can in API mapping documents map to role="equation"
20:18:10 [oedipus]
NS: not as picky as rest of wg, but thought "equation" restricted it and was more precise and maps well to what already exists
20:18:19 [Al]
q?
20:18:21 [Rich]
q?
20:18:24 [Rich]
q?
20:18:30 [Zakim]
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20:19:43 [oedipus]
AG: a) have to channel simon p -- was pressuring us to have this fully specificied -- thinking that he is building into HTML5 and browser -- challanged that -- this is a flag AT uses to call helper -- it is the helper that decides how loose or strict it is going to be able to grok and that above 85% success would be BIG win
20:20:07 [oedipus]
AG: where existing equations are in TeX can do that
20:21:23 [oedipus]
AG: akward thing in that HTML has history of getting into trouble with putting sloppy definitions in specs which lead to differing/sloppy implementations; authos have been upset about what happens when their code hits the browser; strong desire in HTML WG to nail things down better and have more specific specificiation -- need to distinguish what role is here -- HTML and base UA not going to do everything for everyone
20:21:41 [oedipus]
NS: math may be embedded in image -- may not even be perceptable to HTML parser
20:22:56 [oedipus]
AG: SimonP would want to be quick -- if you are happy to sniff/ping inserts and give a sign "math handlers/sniffers" go find and process this; in accessibility also have problem -- in WCAG developed concept of accessibly supported technologies -- loose outer defninition (function performance) then "and furthermore if use this technique with this technology, value gets through to end user:
20:23:06 [oedipus]
s/user;/user;
20:23:29 [oedipus]
AG: value of "math" or "equation" is describing intent -- how you should understand this fragment of content;
20:23:50 [Rich]
q?
20:23:54 [oedipus]
AG: when tell authors what to do, need "and furthermore if you do this, it is supported" so both a loose and a stricter statement
20:24:08 [Rich]
q+ Rich
20:25:04 [kenny]
michael, I am using skype for this call today.
20:25:06 [oedipus]
NS: should be suggestion in Best Practices that says "this technology will be exposed/found if you do x with y app" -- would not leave open ended if starting from scratch, but since ARIA attempting to capture meaning in current practice and those practices vary greately
20:25:38 [oedipus]
RS: mark this as "equation" here are common BP to support interoperability today, but is there an optional parameter for "equation" you would want?
20:26:11 [oedipus]
NS: 2 things: 1) where is the math going to be found; 2) give me a strong clue as to what type of math i need to deal with (self-discoverable)
20:27:14 [oedipus]
NS: with TeX similar, but different -- one thing not well understood about TeX was written without logical parser -- doesn't tokenize things but tokenizes each character
20:27:36 [oedipus]
NS: some variants of TeX tokenize elements; things like that make TeX an open ended thing
20:27:52 [Rich]
q?
20:27:54 [oedipus]
NS: would be nice to specify that, but 20 variantsof TeX and many implementations follow custom rules
20:27:57 [Rich]
ack Rich
20:31:06 [oedipus]
AG: took first pass at approach: didn't address "casting to a dialect" but did point to where can find; put encoded math in ALT attribute one pattern has to be looked for (proably a search list); what is new in ARIA is "describedby" points to something for people or machines -- could point to a machine understandable -- could develop conventions for TeX -- ways to put into meta data (use SCRIPT that not displayed, ask what type of script, get return) -- hav
20:31:29 [oedipus]
RS: describedby like a long desc for area in document
20:31:59 [oedipus]
RS: can hide with CSS or have visible; gets mapped to accessible description in a11y APIs so one can extract text if needed;
20:32:18 [oedipus]
RS: suggestion on how to process math object? OCR it, use description (describedby)
20:32:32 [oedipus]
RS: can't specify TeX because too many variants
20:32:39 [oedipus]
NS: right
20:33:22 [oedipus]
NS: question i have which hasn't been answered by PF is "how important is compatibility with existing use cases?" -- is goal of ARIA to change and constrain use of math to make more accessible or just trying to describe current usage
20:34:24 [oedipus]
RS: ARIA about interoperability with platform a11y APIs -- everything needs to be obtained through APIs; could say, if use ARIA, this is how you should use it for math -- if in best interest of industry -- use of ARIA might direct them to a more consistent use of math on web
20:35:48 [oedipus]
NS: driving factor on some, but not all, putting math in HTML is terseness; some use TeX-like notation that uses javascript to "prettify" -- wikipedia/wikimedia has extension that creates TeX from ascii notation or to describe image containing math
20:36:13 [oedipus]
NS: JSMath -- if javascript really doing writing, could put out more description
20:36:30 [oedipus]
NS: maybe verbosity is not an issue on second thought -- tool will generate extra stuff
20:37:03 [Rich]
q?
20:37:33 [oedipus]
AG: wikipedia case where site doing patern driven transform is good likelihood of uptake thing -- getting JSMath library to generate more stuff would rate down
20:37:36 [oedipus]
NS: working with us
20:37:44 [oedipus]
AG: maybe will work with us like dojo
20:38:42 [Jon]
q+
20:39:10 [oedipus]
AG: everyone in end cares about character count -- not just mobile providers; wasted chars not good idea -- if put TeX in alt and mark with role then should work -- content devlopers who want to put in different flavors of TeX, that we have the "try harder" coding patterns we target for when more than just an image and alt text
20:39:15 [Rich]
ack Jon
20:39:23 [oedipus]
JRG: ideally what is most accesible way to put math on web
20:39:59 [oedipus]
NS: MathML -- works with XHTML no problem, but problem with HTML -- if you only use IE, can put in HTML document and IE extention mechanism will handle it, but nothing in firefox or safari
20:40:19 [oedipus]
RS: role="equation" - source equals "URI for mathML" and let AT suck it out
20:40:29 [oedipus]
NS: URIs have 2000 character limits?
20:40:34 [oedipus]
AG: good question
20:40:59 [oedipus]
RS: here is URI for source of that, don't need alt text -- if you understand MathML go get it
20:41:08 [oedipus]
AG: problem when src used to point to math image
20:41:13 [oedipus]
RS: can handle that
20:41:20 [oedipus]
AG: HLink versus XLink wars
20:42:19 [oedipus]
NS: essentially 1 thing saying let's make it explicit and put on image or embed tag -- MathML WG trying to make math more interoperable -- people carry around images, but leave alt text behind; embedding in image safe way to go -- always there
20:43:02 [oedipus]
NS: extractable from image, not dependent on alt -- TeX part of image
20:43:29 [oedipus]
NS: not bad idea to have attribute that make these things obvious, but worry about fragility of extraction method
20:43:56 [oedipus]
RS: like to have 2 vehicles in BP: role="equation" -- in BP say "store equivalent text in image"
20:44:08 [oedipus]
NS: here are 3 or 4 ways that are supported by most extraction techs
20:44:26 [oedipus]
NS: 1 would be ALT text (current practice); other would be using "describedby" and other in image itself
20:44:34 [oedipus]
RS: no URL to mathml equiv
20:44:37 [oedipus]
NS: not sure
20:44:45 [oedipus]
AG: should be supported
20:44:50 [oedipus]
GJR: strong plus one
20:45:06 [oedipus]
AG: if provider has equation in MathML, need to know -- want to use that if present
20:45:20 [oedipus]
RS: mathML equiv to give URL (optional parameter)
20:45:42 [oedipus]
NS: why just MathML? if to make discovery easy, shouldn't be limited to MathML -- just URL of equivalent
20:46:01 [oedipus]
RS: server could tell media type when pull down TeX
20:46:04 [oedipus]
NS: is a text format
20:46:12 [oedipus]
MC: datatype or new mime-type property?
20:46:48 [oedipus]
AG: has to be tested to make sure current implementations of OBJECT won't break; if put in OBJECT and make MathML first choice, that is the Best Practice possible; problem is whith mime-types for MathML
20:46:59 [oedipus]
NS: persued and rejected by MathML WG
20:47:23 [oedipus]
AG: problem: UA can't determine ahead of time if can process MathML -- doesn't know MathML is MathML until gets it
20:47:26 [oedipus]
RS: right
20:47:29 [oedipus]
NS: sigh, right
20:47:37 [oedipus]
NS: though OBJECT has own problems
20:48:41 [oedipus]
AG: matter of debate -- tantek told us it has been fixed; HTML5 faction against it (VIDEO, AUDIO, etc.) -- shouldn't lose cascading fallback idea; want to wait to have highest and best form avialable
20:49:04 [oedipus]
AG: issues: need mime-type identifier; need extractor for TeX in image
20:49:08 [oedipus]
q+
20:49:16 [kenny]
Do we know if any screen readers today support LaTex?
20:49:30 [oedipus]
MC: putting mathML in attributes means using escape characters
20:49:41 [oedipus]
AG: TeX in alt rather than MathML
20:50:06 [kenny]
Thanks gregory.
20:50:27 [oedipus]
AG: if load into IFRAME, how is communicated to UA that this thing contains math -- application/xml+mathml -- if can't process XML move onto something else
20:50:39 [oedipus]
NS: not going to work right now
20:51:01 [oedipus]
GJR: MC can WCAG2 address the author's best practice by advising that TeX be embeded in an image
20:51:30 [oedipus]
AG: interim technique; also want to fix the web so highest and best math (MathML) can be documented as object and served to users
20:51:57 [oedipus]
NS: MathML in HTML5 -- consensus that math will be in HTML5 -- probably MathML in some as yet unkown/specified form
20:52:05 [oedipus]
NS: want to discourage hacks
20:52:21 [Rich]
q?
20:52:28 [Rich]
q+ Rich
20:52:32 [oedipus]
AG: agree -- just trying to separate 2 issues: need role now so something can be processed and
20:52:40 [Rich]
q?
20:52:44 [Rich]
ack oedipus
20:53:07 [oedipus]
GJR: need to take info to WCAG and ATAG
20:53:27 [oedipus]
RS: if alt text not in document, are you going to pull alt text out of image and map to a11y api?
20:53:56 [Rich]
q?
20:54:43 [oedipus]
NS: don't think UA itself would do sniffing (although would be great if would) -- UA's not the ones that turn MathML into speech, AT vendors don't want to handle MathML directly, so would have to use Expert Handler (http://a11y.org/handlers) -- there is pllugin for IE that allows speech -- AT essential to getting braille support
20:54:48 [Rich]
q?
20:56:02 [oedipus]
NS: developed tech to go out and pull the alt text out, paste into equation editor; port that back into viewer -- take the TeX translate to MathML then run through MathML to Speech and MahtML to braille engines -- very doable; current limitation -- plugin calls for MathML and need to do javascript on imagesand scan of page to determine what math is there in what form
20:56:24 [oedipus]
NS: if have role="math" could limit search
20:57:30 [Zakim]
-marcsil
20:57:31 [oedipus]
AG: summarize: if the user has a png format for their picture of equation and put embedded meta-data in png, not expect browser to put into API as accessible description -- can take alt text and processed as usual; if mathML in embedded, math helper might write good description into accessibility API
20:58:01 [oedipus]
NS: ARIA exported to AT, javascript that binds will do translation and in case of UAs not serving up dom, can rewrite page AT should pick up
20:58:09 [oedipus]
NS: alt text put out as value field in MSAA?
20:58:52 [oedipus]
RS: no, AccessibleName and helpInformation -- MSAA has description API (equiv of help) IA2 has relationships that understand "describedby"; don't know what UIAutomation plans
20:59:08 [oedipus]
NS: whatever written, write correctly, even if in alt
20:59:30 [oedipus]
RS: wearing AT vendor hat, if TeX embedded in image, would want to know that if don't have TeX plugin
21:00:11 [oedipus]
NS: what is loud and clear from AT vendors is "we're not dealing with math; you do that, tell us what to put out, and we'll support it" not going to search DOM, will speak if is there -- don't want to fetch image and parse it
21:00:55 [oedipus]
RS: 2 things: 1) either can put a describedby as technique or a tool can fulfill that role; 2) HTML5 people will not like URL pointing
21:01:26 [oedipus]
NS: HTML5 people will tell you that they will handle math as text/html -- dubious at this point if possible
21:01:55 [Rich]
q?
21:01:58 [oedipus]
NS: describedby field in TeX or MathML -- if had javascript that looks for math and outputs speech, is it still "describedby"?
21:02:22 [oedipus]
AG: describedby takes list of IDs -- have to revisit what UAs do with concatonated methods
21:02:39 [oedipus]
AG: can't do this on fly, but are things can write into DOM that can capture (SSML)
21:02:54 [oedipus]
NS: with MSAA can't use SSML, have to use straight text
21:03:25 [oedipus]
NS: as long as you come up with soulition that describedby is machine field, need to id field that needs priority to generate speech, braille, etc.
21:04:00 [oedipus]
AG: hoemwork item, but this discussion has GREATLY cleared up the issues; thought going to take directoy to APIs -- if put back into DOM, have to rethink thorugh fully so AT ends up with it
21:05:25 [oedipus]
NS: found varying levels of commitment from AT vendors: base level - have MSAA interface, but that is limited to string of text (can't put braille in that -- text you put in isn't braille you get out in math) -- that's why have to expose handler interface to all UAs all ATs all platforms; minimum base is ability to take math code and output speech
21:05:33 [oedipus]
RS: braille involves fight with AT
21:05:48 [oedipus]
NS: we dont' speak things, we return text for speech and braille engines
21:06:24 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.523.aabb
21:06:52 [oedipus]
AG: take back to ATs -- knee-jerk reaction is that that is part of procedure call on dispatching expert handler -- should know if have braille device and follow user's preference; Fluid Project beating on W3C elsewhere, so will be a W3C user prefernces in context that can be exposed
21:07:20 [oedipus]
RS: don't want future equivalent for MathML
21:08:02 [Al]
q+
21:08:02 [oedipus]
RS: "equation" or "math"
21:08:16 [oedipus]
LP: preference for math -- it's shorter
21:08:30 [oedipus]
NS: MathML prefered equation, personally don't care
21:08:33 [Al]
ack Rich
21:08:34 [Rich]
ack Rich
21:08:37 [MichaelC]
zakim, +1.919 is Lisa_Pappas
21:08:37 [Zakim]
+Lisa_Pappas; got it
21:08:48 [MichaelC]
q+ to say I thought equations were a subset of math, so I prefer math
21:09:16 [oedipus]
AG: can live with either -- math good idea now -- authors will relate better to math - will think equation doesn't always apply
21:09:19 [MichaelC]
q-
21:09:25 [Rich]
q?
21:09:26 [Al]
q-
21:09:28 [Rich]
ack Al
21:09:59 [oedipus]
RS: can say in description "this is a math equation"
21:10:11 [oedipus]
NS: not equations, expressions, but...
21:10:19 [oedipus]
RS: math expression in definition
21:10:25 [Al]
+1
21:10:29 [oedipus]
+1
21:10:32 [Rich]
+1
21:10:36 [MichaelC]
present+ Lisa_Pappas
21:10:40 [kenny]
+1
21:10:45 [oedipus]
LP +1
21:10:45 [Jon]
+1
21:10:57 [oedipus]
raman gave +1 to "math" on list
21:11:44 [oedipus]
RESOLVED: ARIA will use math role type; in definition will state that this is a "math expression"
21:12:15 [oedipus]
rssagent make minutes
21:13:09 [oedipus]
RS: describedby a universal property, right?
21:13:11 [oedipus]
MC: yes
21:14:13 [oedipus]
RS: don't have to say antyhing explicit in spec about math, but a BP thing; have to compose best practices section 1) alternative text embedded in image, third party app extracts info and load "describedby" with that info, or may speak, or author may but in "describedby" himslef
21:14:37 [oedipus]
NS: describedby -- words to speak or what should be written into DOM using existing API bindings
21:14:52 [oedipus]
AG: need to get AaronL (mozilla) and SimonP (opera) in on this
21:16:05 [oedipus]
RS: best way to speak it (as long as not changing voice dynamics) == that way AT doesn't have to think alot to deliver to TTS or braille device
21:16:20 [oedipus]
NS: machine encoding shouldn't be part of "describedby"
21:16:37 [oedipus]
AG: how does API binding respect cascade of acceptable forms
21:17:06 [oedipus]
NS: someone could manually use field -- need to know if field exists
21:17:29 [oedipus]
AG: action/homework item: UA best practice for AT helper (expert handler -- if writes back into DOM, how to do it)
21:17:41 [oedipus]
AG: need browser brothers to address this
21:17:56 [oedipus]
RS: if start putting other markup in there, going to go bonkers
21:18:25 [oedipus]
AG: are we going to say if TeX in image and can figure how to say that can overwrite ALT and go with that -- haven't been considering that piece of problem
21:19:36 [oedipus]
NS: 2 ways: 1) we say "override ALT or describedby" and put in description AT can pick up: 2) tighter binding -- id as Math -- call expert handler, and that will tell us what to say -- that fall back position is needed -- may be rewriting ALT or describedby -- should process, put back into DOM
21:20:39 [oedipus]
AG: for PF, in terms of browsers binding DOM to API, much plainer if return to AT that called handler than figuring out override; don't want to overwrite something suitable to speak that is only handled by handler; handler api has to return best advoice on how to speak or braille expression
21:21:49 [oedipus]
RS: what is best practice: how does an AT know that an expert handler/plugin (MathPlayer - works only in IE)
21:22:26 [oedipus]
NS: have to work with each AT vendor to tell them "when you get to this node, use our interfaces" when you get to our interface, then speak, highlight, braille-output
21:22:38 [oedipus]
NS: plug-in a dll that gets into registry
21:22:57 [oedipus]
NS: want standard way that says "here is how you work with expert handler" rather than one-off solutions
21:23:53 [oedipus]
AG: browsers look like going to implement ARIA, will be refelected in accessibleRole in API -- if use a11y API can bootstrap off of that, determine if math and then ask for hel
21:23:58 [oedipus]
s/hel/help
21:24:20 [oedipus]
RS: preferential way to look at describedby or alt -- that would be what is to be spoken
21:25:11 [oedipus]
NS: JavaScript solution is a cross-platform base fallback -- can't give highlighting or braille currnetly; if could write SSML into math speech, would be much better, but if stuck with plain text, fake it with commas and periods and other klduges
21:25:25 [oedipus]
AG: small SSML implementations not available yet
21:25:38 [oedipus]
RS: if use describedby method should be processable in speech
21:25:59 [oedipus]
NS: exactly what i did with MSAA/SAPI5 -- value field with plain text
21:26:10 [oedipus]
NS: like RS' soultiion
21:26:17 [oedipus]
s/soultiion/solution
21:26:45 [oedipus]
RS: need to put something in best practices -- don't need to do anything special with UA devs
21:27:06 [oedipus]
AG: have in our vocab "valuetext" -- if make "valuetext" apply to math role, have place to stuff it
21:27:18 [oedipus]
RS: [ponders] --
21:27:23 [oedipus]
NS: can it be a long string?
21:27:25 [oedipus]
RS: yes
21:27:47 [oedipus]
RS: currently valuetext associated with valuemax valuemin etc.
21:28:19 [oedipus]
AG: document has tools to deal with it attribute by attribute -- math role has this property: "valuetext" defaults to how to say, can also put in how to braille
21:28:35 [oedipus]
RS: in HTML what is maximum lenght of string
21:28:44 [oedipus]
AG: have to look for it
21:29:35 [oedipus]
AG: generic limit on strings 255
21:29:51 [oedipus]
MC: anything directed towards human should be in an element
21:30:02 [oedipus]
RS: between 2 tags can be as long as want
21:30:40 [oedipus]
AG: that points to describedby over valuetext -- problem: have to work with AT so that role="math" goies straight to describedby and prcess it in its entirety
21:30:55 [oedipus]
RS: think have enought to write something up
21:31:04 [Zakim]
-Jon_Gunderson
21:31:33 [oedipus]
ACTION ARIA Editors: write up proposal for role="math" and best practices for its use
21:32:06 [Zakim]
-Al
21:32:06 [kenny]
bye
21:32:08 [Zakim]
-Gregory_Rosmaita
21:32:08 [Zakim]
-Neil_Soiffer
21:32:09 [Zakim]
-Lisa_Pappas
21:32:09 [Zakim]
-Matt_May
21:32:11 [oedipus]
NS: happy to participate as needed
21:32:11 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:32:13 [Zakim]
-Cooper
21:32:14 [Zakim]
-Kenny_Johar
21:32:18 [Zakim]
-James_Nurthen
21:32:26 [Zakim]
-Pete_Brunet
21:32:27 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(ARIA)4:00PM has ended
21:32:28 [Zakim]
Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Al, +1.512.238.aaaa, James_Nurthen, Pete_Brunet, Matt_May, SotosBarkas, Neil_Soiffer, Jon_Gunderson, marcsil,
21:32:31 [Zakim]
... Kenny_Johar, +1.919.523.aabb, Lisa_Pappas
21:32:40 [oedipus]
regrets+ Janina_Sajka
21:32:55 [oedipus]
rrsagent, create minutes
21:32:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:33:54 [oedipus]
rrsagent, format minutes
21:33:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:35:22 [oedipus]
rrsagent, format minutes
21:35:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:35:41 [oedipus]
present+ Neil_Soiffer
21:35:50 [oedipus]
present- Nei_Soiffer
21:35:52 [oedipus]
rrsagent, format minutes
21:35:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:36:15 [oedipus]
present+ Kenny_Johar
21:36:22 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:36:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:36:38 [oedipus]
regrets+ Sally_Cain
21:36:40 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:36:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:38:10 [oedipus]
present+ Marc_Silbey
21:38:12 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:38:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:54:01 [oedipus]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JanMar/0547.html
21:54:04 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:54:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:54:20 [oedipus]
present+ Matt_May
21:54:23 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:54:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:54:45 [oedipus]
present+ James_Nurthen
21:54:47 [oedipus]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:54:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html oedipus
21:59:45 [Jon]
Jon has left #aria-math
22:00:28 [oedipus]
rrsagent, please part
22:00:28 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items