14:53:07 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 14:53:07 logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-xproc-irc 14:53:45 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 14:53:45 Date: 27 March 2008 14:53:45 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/27-agenda 14:53:45 Meeting: 105 14:53:45 Chair: Norm 14:53:45 MoZ has joined #xproc 14:53:46 Scribe: Norm 14:53:48 ScribeNick: Norm 14:54:02 Norm has changed the topic to: XProc WG meets 27 Mar: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/03/27-agenda 14:55:32 PGrosso has joined #xproc 14:58:19 Regrets: Murray 14:58:50 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:00:21 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started 15:00:31 +Norm 15:00:54 +[ArborText] 15:01:18 richard has joined #xproc 15:01:39 Regrets: Murray, Andrew 15:01:46 +??P24 15:01:50 zakim, ? is me 15:01:50 +richard; got it 15:02:11 ruilopes has joined #xproc 15:03:45 zakim, please call ht-781 15:03:45 ok, ht; the call is being made 15:03:47 +Ht 15:04:24 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:06:00 +[IPcaller] 15:06:09 Zakim, [is me 15:06:10 I don't understand '[is me', ruilopes 15:06:17 Zakim, [ is me 15:06:17 +ruilopes; got it 15:06:36 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:06:36 On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, richard, Ht, ruilopes 15:06:58 Present: Norm, Paul, Richard, Henry, Rui 15:07:21 Topic: Accept this agenda? 15:07:21 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/27-agenda 15:07:27 Accepted. 15:07:34 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:07:34 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/03/20-minutes 15:07:38 Accepted. 15:07:52 Topic: Next meeting: telcon 3 April 2008? 15:08:01 Henry gives regrets. 15:08:38 Norm observes that we'll all be on Summer Time starting 3 April, so adjust your calendars accordingly 15:08:52 Topic: Henry's alternate proposal 15:09:01 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/alternate/ 15:09:10 Henry summarizes. 15:16:35 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:16:46 Discussion reveals that Henry may have spec'd something other than what we think we intended. 15:17:14 The order of p:with-options has no bearing on the result of the call, irrespective of what the alternate draft currently says. 15:17:39 Richard: What's in scope when you're in the pipeline? 15:18:31 Norm: Only the preceding siblings 15:18:53 Richard: So if you screw up and refer to something that is defined later, then it might accidentally be bound. 15:19:55 Richard: An implementation must behave as if it did this 15:20:06 ...It evaluates the passed options, in any order 15:20:21 ...stores them in a temporary place 15:20:43 ...then goes through the options in the pipeline, in order, and takes their value from the secret place or computes the default 15:20:56 I think it is sufficient to remove ", with the addition of variable bindings for all options whose declarations precede its declaration in the surrounding step's signature" from 5.7.3 in the alternate draft 15:21:01 Norm: And crucially it can't see any bindings that come from the ancestors of the call 15:21:51 Richard: So another way would be to check at compile time that the expressions don't refer to variables they aren't allowed to reference and do away with the temporary place 15:22:28 Henry: The way the alternative draft achieves that is by specifying what the variable bindings are in the context. 15:22:35 s/context/XPath context/ 15:22:58 ...For with-option, the variable bindings are determined by the environment of the surrounding step 15:23:20 ...For option default, the variable bindings consist only of bindings for options who's decl.s precede it in the declaration 15:24:57 Some discussion of dynamic vs. static checking and why we went with dynamic checking. 15:24:57 Richard: This is the same as the case with XSLT parameters? 15:25:00 Norm: Yes, I believe so. 15:25:47 Norm: The one point I'd like to close on is whether we're going to allow variables mixed into subpipelines. 15:27:02 Norm expresses why he needs the variables to be first. 15:27:17 Richard: I agree 15:27:43 Proposal: accept the alternate draft, amended as necessary, and with the explicit provision that all variable bindings occur at the beginning of the subpipeline. 15:28:03 Accepted. 15:28:26 Topic: What else do we need to do before we publish a draft. 15:28:39 Henry: I should update the DTD and the W3C XML Schema 15:28:45 ...And Norm should update the RNG schema 15:29:44 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:30:08 Norm: We have a proposal for the name/media type nexus 15:30:14 Norm: Henry's action on base URIs is still open 15:30:51 Norm: I think that if we came to some conclusion about the base URI question and we agree on the media type/names question, that we're done. We should publish a new draft. 15:31:18 Norm: Not a last call, just a regular working draft because we've changed so much. 15:31:38 Norm: Can anyone think of anything else on the critical path? 15:32:00 Topic: Names and media types 15:32:20 Henry made a proposal. 15:32:22 -> http://www.w3.org/mid/f5bd4pg9ymh.fsf@hildegard.inf.ed.ac.uk 15:32:49 Henry summarizes. 15:33:11 PGrosso, can you scribe for a moment or two? 15:34:30 Henry talks about the fact that, if we go to Rec, we might want to have a media type. 15:34:41 scribe: pgrosso 15:34:47 scribenick: pgrosso 15:35:13 A specific media type would, in theory, allow us to have a fragment identifier syntax that allows us to point into a pipeline. 15:35:50 But it's unlikely that real world clients would really support such a frag id syntax, so registering a media type with such a fragid syntax would be misleading. 15:36:12 So Hnery concludes that we shouldn't define our own media type. 15:36:29 s/Hnery/Henry/ 15:37:32 Norm wants to simplify, so he tends to agree with Henry's conclusion. 15:38:22 Norm figures people wouldn't be putting xml:id on things, so it might be nice to point to things by name rather than have to rely on tumblers (the element() xpointer scheme). 15:38:41 But on balance he leans toward the simpler (no special media type). 15:39:17 Henry says we could, in the future, define an xpointer scheme called xproc() to allow us to point into pipelines. 15:40:03 We appear to have consensus to go with no special media, so appendix C or D or whatever will be reduced to a statement that we use application/xml for pipelines. 15:40:59 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:41:11 Henry claims there are reasons other that pointing for steps to have names, so he does not proposed to remove secton 2.1.1, but he does suggest a change to the automatic naming mechanism to use tumblers. 15:42:01 Norm is happy to go with tumblers. Paul and Henry prefer tumblers. 15:43:51 scribenick: Norm 15:44:04 Henry's previously referenced email has the specific suggestion (levels separated by periods). 15:44:06 Richard: We really don't want automatically generated names to ever be able to conflict with a real name 15:44:21 Norm: So: periods or slashes? 15:44:26 Paul: Periods are fine. 15:44:55 Proposed: Tumblers seperated by periods, beginning with a "!" 15:45:29 Accepted. 15:45:55 Topic: Any other business? 15:46:03 None heard. 15:46:20 Adjourned. 15:47:00 -Norm 15:47:02 -Ht 15:47:03 -richard 15:47:03 -ruilopes 15:47:03 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended 15:47:04 Attendees were Norm, PGrosso, richard, Ht, [IPcaller], ruilopes 15:47:07 RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 15:47:10 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:47:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/27-xproc-minutes.html Norm 15:47:47 PGrosso has left #xproc 16:17:58 MoZ has joined #xproc 18:02:21 Zakim has left #xproc 18:27:25 RRSAgent, bye 18:27:25 I see no action items