13:26:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
13:26:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-er-irc
13:27:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
13:27:06 <shadi> zakim, this will be ert
13:27:06 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:27:11 <shadi> meeting: ERT WG
13:27:15 <shadi> chair: Shadi
13:27:21 <shadi> scribe: Johannes
13:28:15 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2008Mar/0026.html
13:28:33 <shadi> agenda+ Comments on WCAG 2.0 by CarlosI
13:28:40 <shadi> agenda+ WCAG 2.0 conformance section
13:28:50 <shadi> agenda+ Recording "Web Page" and state
13:29:00 <shadi> agenda+ Progressing ERT documents
13:29:12 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has now started
13:29:13 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:31:22 <carlosI> carlosI has joined #er
13:34:47 <Zakim> +Carlos_Iglesias
13:35:21 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #er
13:35:46 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
13:36:42 <JohannesK> Zakim, Klaus is really Johannes
13:36:42 <Zakim> +Johannes; got it
13:36:43 <shadi> scribenick: JohannesK
13:36:49 <shadi> agenda?
13:37:08 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
13:37:08 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Comments on WCAG 2.0 by CarlosI" taken up [from shadi]
13:39:41 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #er
13:40:34 <Zakim> +Johannes.a
13:40:54 <shadi> zakim, johannes.a is really CarlosV
13:40:54 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
13:40:58 <JohannesK> RESOLUTION: CarlosI lets the group know about the follow-up on his comments.
13:41:42 <JohannesK> saz: are there any more comments on WCAG 2?
13:43:12 <JohannesK> ci: some measures in the guidelines should go to techniques, as the values may change over time
13:43:24 <JohannesK> ci: e.g. 200% zoom
13:44:14 <JohannesK> saz: there's already a comment sent to WCAG group
13:44:41 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:44:41 <Zakim> agendum 2. "WCAG 2.0 conformance section" taken up [from shadi]
13:45:47 <JohannesK> saz: last week's action items on commenting on conformance section
13:47:02 <JohannesK> cv: postpone the issue to net week
13:48:19 <JohannesK> saz: I still not really understand the issue.
13:49:08 <JohannesK> saz: several axes: 1. developing content, 2. testing after/while development, 3. third party testing
13:50:13 <JohannesK> ci: definition of Web Page contains more than traditionally belongs to the Web page
13:50:36 <JohannesK> ci: more the user's view of web content
13:51:27 <JohannesK> saz: on the web nowadays, what is a web page?
13:52:01 <JohannesK> ci: what you first load from URI is th web page
13:52:40 <JohannesK> saz: different state of web page?
13:53:20 <JohannesK> saz: former terminology: Web Unit
13:53:37 <JohannesK> saz: nobody understood "web unit"
13:54:04 <JohannesK> saz: so they went back to call it "web page" but defined it like a web unit
13:55:36 <JohannesK> ci: different things require different ways of testing
13:56:00 <JohannesK> ci: current tesiting procedure only apply to traditional web pages
13:56:16 <JohannesK> s/tesiting/testing/
13:57:32 <JohannesK> ci: how to predict every way of interacting with an application front-end?
13:59:12 <JohannesK> saz: it's more software testing than traditional web page testing
14:02:36 <JohannesK> ci: no matter what you already tested, there will always be some bugs (accessibility problems) not found
14:03:56 <JohannesK> saz: every technical spec has a conformance section
14:09:48 <JohannesK> ci: traditionally accessible means 100% perfect, but there's no perfection in reality
14:12:16 <JohannesK> ci: you can't claim AA compliance when you have not tested every page in every state; that's impossible
14:13:33 <JohannesK> cv: UWEM approach is to test reasonable amount of resources
14:16:01 <JohannesK> jk: testing states of a web page is somehow subjective (creating sample of states); someone else may test another sample and so claims non-conformance for the same web page
14:17:56 <JohannesK> saz: it depends on testing methodology
14:19:48 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/
14:19:54 <JohannesK> saz: possible solution: technical spec defines absolute conformance; evaluation procedure (to be updated) may include tolerance and process issues
14:22:14 <JohannesK> ci: maybe create a task force for creating evaluation methodology
14:24:06 <JohannesK> saz: evaluation guidance to be updated, interested parties e.g. in Europe/USA
14:25:23 <JohannesK> ci: is the conformance model necessary in the WCAG guidelines themselves?
14:25:37 <JohannesK> saz: every technical spec should have one
14:27:48 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:27:48 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Recording "Web Page" and state" taken up [from shadi]
14:30:08 <JohannesK> saz: is serializing DOM and putting intoXMLContent sufficient for now?
14:30:18 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:30:18 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Progressing ERT documents" taken up [from shadi]
14:31:03 <JohannesK> saz: several open action items
14:31:20 <JohannesK> saz: editing/reviewing documents
14:32:41 <JohannesK> cv: namespace for Content document?
14:32:58 <JohannesK> saz: I will request it for publication
14:33:21 <JohannesK> saz: publish both Content and HTTP together
14:34:09 <Zakim> -CarlosV
14:34:20 <JohannesK> cv: waiting for pointers to be finalized
14:34:29 <Zakim> -Johannes
14:34:36 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:36:57 <shadi> zakim, drop carlosI
14:36:57 <Zakim> Carlos_Iglesias is being disconnected
14:36:58 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()9:30AM has ended
14:36:59 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Carlos_Iglesias, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Johannes, CarlosV
14:37:02 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:37:02 <Zakim> Zakim has left #er
14:37:10 <shadi> rrsgent, make logs world
14:37:25 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:37:30 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:37:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/19-er-minutes.html shadi
14:37:34 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:37:40 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
14:37:40 <RRSAgent> I see no action items