15:02:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #databinding
15:02:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/11-databinding-irc
15:02:15 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #databinding
15:02:17 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be DBWG
15:02:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see WS_DBWG()10:00AM already started
15:02:18 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: XML Schema Patterns for Databinding Working Group Teleconference
15:02:18 <trackbot-ng> Date: 11 March 2008
15:02:38 <Zakim> +Yves
15:03:23 <pauld> zakim, code?
15:03:31 <pauld> zakim, code?
15:03:38 <Zakim> the conference code is 3294 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), pauld
15:03:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 3294 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), pauld
15:04:47 <pauld> yves, getting "conference is restricted"
15:05:25 <Yves> hum, try to wait for an operator, then
15:05:30 <gcowe> i seem to be on conference ok, but only me!
15:05:40 <Yves> telcon ended (as we are one hour late)
15:05:46 <Zakim> + +0791888aaaa
15:06:03 <pauld> zakim, aaaa is me
15:06:03 <Zakim> +pauld; got it
15:08:13 <pauld> scribe: pauld
15:08:42 <pauld> chair: pauld
15:08:58 <pauld> pauld: we need to renew the charter, runs out end of this month
15:09:30 <pauld> yves: we need to have a document published, that'll help
15:10:43 <JonC> JonC has joined #databinding
15:11:07 <JonC> Hi
15:11:30 <JonC> Cannot join conference call...
15:11:59 <pauld> pauld: we need to list the changes from the previous Last Call publication
15:16:13 <pauld> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsd-databinding/2008Mar/0001.html
15:16:24 <pauld> Topic: Publication of Basic Patterns
15:18:50 <pauld> gcowe: "elementfinal" isn't valid, and is "Basic", should be removed
15:18:52 <pauld> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsd-databinding/2008Feb/0008.html
15:19:07 <pauld> pauld: testing worked?
15:19:16 <pauld> gcowe: example was missing
15:19:26 <pauld> pauld: doubly sure we should remove it
15:20:00 <pauld> pauld: OK so "ElementFinal" is removed as a pattern
15:20:24 <pauld> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsd-databinding/2008Feb/0013.html
15:20:40 <gcowe> elementfixed was a new advanced pattern added 
15:20:50 <Zakim> + +0800328aabb
15:21:13 <pauld> zakim, aabb is Jonc
15:21:13 <Zakim> +Jonc; got it
15:22:34 <pauld> pauld: elementfixed accepted as an advaced
15:25:53 <pauld> pauld: I'll produce a list of differences
15:26:49 <pauld> XML Schema WG send comments: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsd-databinding-comments/2008Feb/0000.html
15:27:02 <pauld> pauld: most look reasonable
15:29:48 <pauld> pauld: most look like they apply to spec as it stands
15:32:15 <pauld> pauld: suggest I raise these as LC issues, publish this week on the list and we OK at a meeting next tuesday
15:32:50 <pauld> Topic: Collection and Schema Annotation
15:39:31 <Yves> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xmlschema-patterns-20061122/
15:40:39 <pauld> pauld: have a technique for annotation schema, should have it tonight
15:40:41 <pauld> ls
15:40:45 <pauld> s/ls//
15:41:32 <pauld> $ cvs co -r1.67 patterns.xml
15:43:13 <pauld> last call patterns: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/databinding/edcopy/patterns/patterns-lc1.xml
15:43:20 <pauld> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/databinding/edcopy/patterns/patterns.xml
15:44:11 <pauld> need to record list of patterns added and removed since our last, last call
15:44:49 <pauld> gcowe: will look at the differences
15:45:44 <pauld> Topic: lc-xsd-1
15:45:57 <pauld> """
15:45:58 <pauld> * References to concepts and terminology from XSD need to be made more 
15:46:00 <pauld> precise.  For example, section 1.3 says "A document claiming conformance 
15:46:01 <pauld> to this specification ... MUST conform to the [XML Schema 1.0 
15:46:03 <pauld> Recommendation]", but XSD provides no conformance requirements for 
15:46:04 <pauld> "documents" in general.  It would be more appropriate to say that "A 
15:46:06 <pauld> document claiming conformance to this specification ... MUST be a 'schema 
15:46:07 <pauld> document' [2], as defined in [XML Schema 1.0 Recommendation], and MUST 
15:46:10 <pauld> therefore meet the "Constraints on the representation of schema components 
15:46:10 <pauld>  in XML" [3] provided therein."   Actually, there's a further mismatch on 
15:46:12 <pauld> infosets vs. serialization; see next point.
15:46:13 <pauld> """
15:47:38 <pauld> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xmlschema-patterns-20071031/#document-conformance
15:48:15 <pauld> RESOLUTION: Accepted suggested text for lc-xsd-1
15:48:24 <pauld> Topic: lc-xsd-2
15:48:42 <pauld> """
15:48:44 <pauld> * 1.3 also says that a document conforming to the databinding 
15:48:45 <pauld> specification must be a well formed XML 1.0 document;  XSD defines a 
15:48:47 <pauld> schema document as an Infoset with <xs:schema> as the root element.  You 
15:48:48 <pauld> should make clear whether the mismatch is intentional, and if so rewrite 
15:48:50 <pauld> the text suggested above accordingly.  Otherwise, you should change to 
15:48:51 <pauld> indicate that a conforming document is infact an Infoset, consistent with 
15:48:53 <pauld> XSD.  That will mean changing the many references to XML 1.0 documents 
15:48:54 <pauld> that appear throughout your draft.
15:48:56 <pauld> """
15:51:41 <pauld> pauld: we discussed this early on, I should find evidence of our discussion, but we agreed to work at the XML level, and this is an addition constraint over the XML Schema spec, and this is a part of our relationship to the WS-I BP
15:52:32 <pauld> RESOLUTION: Rejected lc-xsd-2
15:52:42 <pauld> Topic: lc-xsd-3
15:53:20 <pauld> """
15:53:21 <pauld> * Section 1.4 suggests that a conforming application "SHOULD be able to 
15:53:23 <pauld> process any valid [XML Schema 1.0] document.".  First of all, there's some 
15:53:24 <pauld> question as to whether a SHOULD is appropriate in a conformance  section. 
15:53:26 <pauld> Notwithstanding that, the reference to [XML Schema 1.0]  documents is 
15:53:27 <pauld> again not strictly clear, since XSD talks about instances to  be validated 
15:53:29 <pauld> as well as schema documents.  We suggest a formal reference to  'schema 
15:53:30 <pauld> documents' [2] as in the first point above.
15:53:32 <pauld> """
15:55:53 <pauld> pauld: whole point of our spec is that not all implementations can swallow any documents
15:56:29 <pauld> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xmlschema-patterns-20071031/#implementation-conformance
15:58:03 <pauld> pauld: what would be the advantage of removing this?
15:58:21 <pauld> yves: wouldn't impact people's reading of the document
15:59:20 <pauld> pauld: anyone want to argue against removing: http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xmlschema-patterns-20071031/#assert-AnySchema
15:59:46 <pauld> RESOLUTION: Accept lx-xsd-3 and remove assert-AnySchema
16:00:01 <pauld> s/lx-xsd/lc-xsd/
16:00:44 <pauld> Topic: lc-xsd-4
16:00:50 <pauld> """
16:00:52 <pauld> * Section 1.4 says that conformance requires that an implementation:  " 
16:00:53 <pauld> MUST produce a data model exposing all of the [XML 1.0] element node and 
16:00:55 <pauld> attribute node content described by the originating [XML Schema 1.0] 
16:00:56 <pauld> document.", but "described by" is not a formal relation or operation 
16:00:58 <pauld> provided for in XSD.  Especially in a conformance requirement, this seems 
16:00:59 <pauld> too informal.
16:01:01 <pauld> """
16:02:49 <pauld> pauld: no alternative terminology suggested. "described by" is pretty OK by me, but then I'm no spec lawyer
16:03:21 <pauld> .. any suggestions for better suggestion?
16:03:31 <pauld> yves: "per"
16:03:43 <pauld> pauld: or we could define "described by"
16:04:08 <pauld> gcowe: "constrained by"
16:05:32 <pauld> pauld: "constrained" is used throughout the XML Schema spec
16:06:08 <pauld> RESOLUTION: Accpet lc-xsd-4 replacing "described" with "constrained"
16:08:05 <pauld> s/Accpet/Accept/
16:08:51 <Zakim> -Jonc
16:08:53 <Zakim> -pauld
16:08:54 <Zakim> -Yves
16:08:58 <Zakim> -George_Cowe
16:09:00 <Zakim> WS_DBWG()10:00AM has ended
16:09:00 <pauld> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:09:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/11-databinding-minutes.html pauld
16:09:02 <Zakim> Attendees were George_Cowe, Yves, +0791888aaaa, pauld, +0800328aabb, Jonc
16:09:10 <pauld> rrsagent, make logs public
16:33:26 <pauld> pauld has joined #databinding
17:31:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #databinding
18:57:47 <pauld> pauld has joined #databinding