IRC log of swd on 2008-02-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:09 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:56:09 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc
14:56:20 [edsu]: rrsagent, bookmark
14:56:20 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T14-56-20
14:56:29 [edsu]: zakim, this will be swd
14:56:29 [Zakim]: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, edsu
14:56:54 [edsu]: yeah, i was trying to get set up early since i have a meeting till 11 EST :)
15:04:01 [Simone]: Simone has joined #swd
15:05:13 [Simone]: edsu, I hope the problem is the timezones and time chahge :)
15:33:59 [Ralph]: Ralph has joined #swd
15:35:01 [Ralph]: rrsagent, please make record public
15:35:25 [Ralph]: zakim, this will be swd
15:35:25 [Zakim]: ok, Ralph; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
15:52:41 [Zakim]: SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
15:52:48 [Zakim]: +[LC]
15:53:00 [edsu]: zakim, LC is me
15:53:00 [Zakim]: +edsu; got it
15:53:23 [edsu]: Meeting: SWD WG
15:53:26 [edsu]: Chair: Guus
15:53:47 [edsu]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0101.html
15:54:24 [edsu]: Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html
15:55:45 [edsu]: Regrets: Sean, Antoine, Quentin
15:56:49 [edsu]: Scribe: Ed
15:56:56 [edsu]: Scribenick: edsu
15:58:18 [Zakim]: +??P13
15:58:22 [dlrubin]: dlrubin has joined #swd
15:58:27 [vit]: vit has joined #SWD
15:59:49 [Elisa]: Elisa has joined #swd
16:00:01 [Clay]: Clay has joined #swd
16:00:25 [berrueta]: berrueta has joined #swd
16:00:33 [Guus]: Guus has joined #swd
16:00:34 [aliman]: aliman has joined #swd
16:00:48 [dlrubin]: No one seems to be on the phone...
16:01:23 [Zakim]: +Rodrigo
16:01:28 [berrueta]: zakim, Rodrigo is me
16:01:28 [Zakim]: +berrueta; got it
16:01:36 [Zakim]: +Guus_Schreiber
16:01:46 [Zakim]: +Ralph
16:01:48 [Zakim]: +Alistair
16:01:52 [Zakim]: +[LC]
16:01:55 [Clay]: zakim, LC is Clay
16:01:58 [Zakim]: +??P42
16:02:06 [Zakim]: +Clay; got it
16:02:07 [Simone]: Zakim, ??P42 is me
16:02:26 [Zakim]: +Simone; got it
16:02:50 [Zakim]: +??P2
16:02:54 [Guus]: zakim, who is here?
16:02:58 [Zakim]: On the phone I see edsu, ??P13, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, Alistair, Clay, Simone, ??P2
16:03:02 [Zakim]: On IRC I see aliman, Guus, berrueta, Clay, Elisa, vit, dlrubin, Ralph, Simone, RRSAgent, Zakim, edsu
16:03:16 [vit]: zakim, ??P2 is me
16:03:23 [Zakim]: +vit; got it
16:03:45 [Guus]: zakim, ??P13 is Daniel
16:03:47 [Zakim]: +Daniel; got it
16:04:25 [marghe]: marghe has joined #swd
16:04:34 [edsu]: Topic: Admin
16:05:08 [benadida]: benadida has joined #swd
16:05:11 [edsu]: RESOLVED to accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html
16:05:23 [Zakim]: + +39.065.705.aaaa
16:05:41 [Simone]: Zakim, +39.065.705.aaaa is Marghe
16:05:53 [Zakim]: +Marghe; got it
16:06:07 [Zakim]: + +1.617.395.aabb
16:06:12 [benadida]: zakim, I am aabb
16:06:19 [Zakim]: +benadida; got it
16:06:49 [edsu]: Guus: briefly discuss Face-to-face meeting, day and a half, in Amsterdam?
16:07:07 [edsu]: Guus: have we made update of charter schedule?
16:07:12 [edsu]: Ralph: we have not yet
16:07:34 [edsu]: Ralph: I assume we will ask for charter extension
16:07:43 [edsu]: Guus: charter expires on 1st of April?
16:07:48 [edsu]: Ralph: first or last
16:07:55 [edsu]: Ralph: April 30
16:08:37 [edsu]: Guus: we could have a proposed recommendation within the charter period
16:08:43 [Ralph]: (for RDFa)
16:08:49 [edsu]: ... after the charter period i expect minimal work on rdfa
16:09:06 [edsu]: benadida: yes, i think that's a fair statement
16:09:52 [edsu]: Guus: is it realistic to assume by the end of april we will have an implementation report ready?
16:10:16 [edsu]: benadida: yes, we have 2 priorities: one is IR and the other is updating the rdfa Primer
16:11:06 [edsu]: Guus: the purpose of the recipes is to publish as a Note
16:11:23 [edsu]: Guus: diego, what is a realistic time for the recipes publication?
16:12:02 [edsu]: deigo: in a few weeks we can have a new draft, i don't know what the schedule is for publishing a w3c note, we need 2 or 3 weeks to make changes in the current draft
16:12:08 [edsu]: s/deigo/diego/
16:12:16 [edsu]: Guus: realistic to shoot for 1st of May?
16:12:39 [edsu]: diego: new draft by the end of march
16:12:59 [edsu]: Ralph: note basically means we don't plan on publishing another version
16:13:11 [edsu]: diego: no problem to have a note by 1st of May then
16:13:19 [edsu]: Topic: Vocabulary Management
16:13:39 [edsu]: s/Topic: Vocabulary Management//
16:13:51 [Ralph]: [I think we're still on the Schedule topic]
16:13:55 [Zakim]: +Elisa_Kendall
16:14:00 [edsu]: vit: we are requesting feedback on the Vocabulary Management doc
16:14:26 [edsu]: ... i cannot estimate how long it will take at this point
16:15:36 [edsu]: Elisa: we have a decent editors draft, and needs some polish, waiting on input from a couple of people, i think we can publish by the second week of march for internal review
16:15:49 [edsu]: ... beyhond that i don't know what it takes to get to a working draft
16:16:18 [edsu]: Guus: usually publish a working draft first, and then go for note status -- which is the end point
16:16:52 [Ralph]: [I see 7 @@TODOs in the -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Vocab/principles-20080204 4-Feb Vocab Management editors' draft ]
16:16:54 [edsu]: ... if we can have a document for review in march, we can publish as working draft by end of march, and then take month of april to get feedback on it, and then publish as note in the beginning of may
16:17:49 [edsu]: Elisa: i have asked for comments from Tom, Alistair and Ralph for specific comments and feedback, if I can get that I think we're at a point where it could be a working draft
16:18:25 [edsu]: Guus: having draft available for internal review shouldn't be later than middle of march
16:18:51 [edsu]: Elisa: anyone who wants to take a look now is more than welcome
16:19:32 [edsu]: Guus: would like to shoot for first of June as last call for SKOS documents
16:19:36 [aliman]: q+
16:19:45 [edsu]: ... is that a reasonable schedule?
16:20:03 [Ralph]: regrets+ Jon, Michael, Tom
16:20:05 [edsu]: ack aliman
16:20:34 [edsu]: aliman: is it reasonable to think we could publish another draft?
16:21:08 [edsu]: ... i think first of june as last call for working draft, would leave us two months, i think that's a good target
16:21:25 [edsu]: Guus: we can extend a bit, but not too much
16:21:49 [edsu]: ... my proposal will be to ask for extension to do skos work to 1st of July, and then normal schedule to rec
16:22:01 [aliman]: sounds ok to me
16:22:04 [edsu]: ... will include bring rdfa from proposed rec to rec
16:22:36 [edsu]: Ralph: i can't judge how much the technical work will be, but it sounds like a plausible proposal to me
16:23:02 [edsu]: ... i'm comfortable asking for the extension
16:23:14 [edsu]: ... focusing on last remaining big deliverable
16:25:03 [edsu]: Action: Chairs to draft charter extension proposal for SKOS until July 1st
16:25:23 [edsu]: Topic: RDFa
16:25:49 [Ralph]: Ben++ for updating RDFa issue tracker quickly :)
16:26:02 [edsu]: benadida: starting to get feedback, going to keep track of comments in tracker, to make a nice review
16:26:39 [edsu]: ... i really want to thank reviewers
16:26:51 [edsu]: Ralph: we should make a schedule for the Primer
16:26:57 [edsu]: benadida: yes
16:27:05 [edsu]: Topic: SKOS
16:27:16 [edsu]: Guus: primer has been published
16:27:58 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0100.html Announcment text for Request for Comments: SKOS Primer [Antoine 2008-02-21]
16:28:03 [edsu]: ACTION: Ralph to publish Feb 12th version of SKOS primer as working draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action05]
16:28:07 [edsu]: --done
16:28:21 [edsu]: Guus: how are we doing w/ comments to SKOS reference?
16:28:42 [edsu]: aliman: haven't had a chance to review comments in the last week, I have set up a page to capture all the comments
16:29:32 [edsu]: ACTION: Sean to propose a way to handle deprecated properties (updating RDF schema) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action06]
16:29:35 [edsu]: --continues
16:29:47 [edsu]: CTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which aspects of the extension module should be in scope for the candidate recommendation package. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
16:29:51 [edsu]: --continues
16:29:59 [edsu]: ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of rdfs isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10]
16:30:00 [aliman]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosReference20080125 comments on SKOS reference
16:30:04 [edsu]: --continues
16:30:46 [edsu]: aliman: i think the text on concept schemes and owl ontologies looks ok
16:30:55 [edsu]: Guus: i think we need to go on record
16:31:04 [edsu]: ACTION: Alistair and Guus to check the text in the primer on relationship between Concept Schemes and OWL Ontologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action13]
16:31:08 [edsu]: --continues
16:31:27 [edsu]: ACTION: Antoine to close ISSUE 54 in tracker with links to resolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html#action15]
16:31:31 [edsu]: --done
16:31:42 [edsu]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0098.html
16:31:52 [edsu]: Guus: is it still open?
16:32:05 [edsu]: Ralph: closed now
16:32:38 [edsu]: Guus: issue 40, concept coordination?
16:32:50 [edsu]: aliman: will be working on that in the next couple of weeks
16:32:53 [edsu]: ACTION: Alistair to make a proposal for Issue 40 (Concept Coordination) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action09]
16:32:57 [edsu]: --continues
16:33:14 [edsu]: Guus: issues 71 and 74
16:33:32 [edsu]: aliman: we opened them last week, and Antoine has sent emails making proposals for each
16:33:57 [edsu]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0095.html
16:34:31 [edsu]: Guus: why don't we mention skos:exactMatch?
16:35:03 [edsu]: aliman: there isn't a parallel
16:35:47 [edsu]: aliman: if you look at OWL, it does not have any duplicate properties
16:36:13 [edsu]: ... if we are going to have parallel vocabularies we should detail why we need it
16:38:12 [Zakim]: -Simone
16:38:38 [edsu]: ... i tried to restate Antoine's position, it seems like there are lots of general statements, and that the proposal depends on people doing things a particular way, there are more questions to answer for why we need the two types of relationships
16:39:10 [edsu]: ... in practice you have to manage your graphs, and their provenance, they could be redundant or misleading
16:39:26 [edsu]: Guus: is there a logical semantic relationship between them?
16:39:31 [edsu]: aliman: like equivalent properties?
16:39:40 [edsu]: Guus: equivalent would be strange
16:39:52 [edsu]: aliman: we need to clarify usage conventions
16:41:12 [edsu]: Guus: asking if broaderMatch as a subproperty of broader might make sense
16:41:20 [aliman]: q+
16:41:21 [Ralph]: [I like Guus' proposal skos:broadMatch rdfs:subPropertyOf skos:broader
16:42:06 [Simone]: Simone has joined #swd
16:42:10 [edsu]: marghe: i think broadMatch between concepts that belong to different schemes is ok, to keep them separate
16:42:43 [edsu]: ... there is a kind of semantic relation between the parallel vocabularies, somehow they mean the same things
16:43:00 [edsu]: Guus: i'm going to make an add on proposal to Antoine's proposal
16:43:34 [Zakim]: +??P0
16:43:43 [Simone]: Zakim, ?P0 is me
16:43:43 [Zakim]: sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named '?P0'
16:43:47 [edsu]: marghe: i'm not sure if they are subproperties
16:43:51 [Simone]: Zakim, ??P0 is me
16:43:51 [Zakim]: +Simone; got it
16:44:21 [Ralph]: Guus: defining something as subPropertyOf does not exclude the case that the two properties have the same extension
16:44:31 [edsu]: marghe: if broaderMatch is a subproperty of broader it's a specialization, but i'm not sure we are specializing
16:45:05 [edsu]: Guus: seems like an issue that would be good for the list
16:45:44 [edsu]: aliman: if your email could include usage conventions i think that would help
16:45:48 [aliman]: q-
16:46:23 [edsu]: ACTION Guus to add Antoine's proposal for issue 71, a proposal for semantics of match relations and standard relations
16:46:34 [edsu]: s/to add/to add to/
16:47:16 [edsu]: s/semantics of/semantic relations between/
16:48:11 [edsu]: Guus: aliman how are we doing with your issue priorities list, do we need to take actions
16:48:26 [edsu]: aliman: we openened 71 and 74, it would be good if we could open a couple more
16:49:44 [edsu]: ... if we could open indexing relation issues, and notations that might be a good thing to do at this stage
16:50:01 [edsu]: Guus: for me the thorniest issue is ISSUE-37, SkosSpecialization
16:50:07 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/37 issue 37
16:50:17 [edsu]: aliman: the easy way out of that would be to consider that out of scope
16:50:48 [Ralph]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2008Feb/0096.html "[SKOS] Issues Review" [Alistair 2008-02-21]
16:51:10 [edsu]: Guus: i propose we open ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-67
16:51:22 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/67 issue 67; StatingFormalDefinitions
16:51:26 [edsu]: ... i will be happy to be owner of 37, and alistair could you own 67?
16:51:41 [edsu]: aliman: could i propose we open indexingrelationship ?
16:51:53 [edsu]: Guus: needs someone to issue a proposal
16:51:59 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/48 issue 48; IndexingRelationship
16:52:27 [edsu]: ... if it doesn't do any particular harm, we could leave it in, it's kind of a weird animal in the skos language, but i don't think it does any harm
16:52:35 [edsu]: ... happy to leave in a raised state
16:52:40 [edsu]: ... issue-48
16:52:46 [Ralph]: s/leave/leave issue 48/
16:53:14 [edsu]: Guus: what about SKOS-OWL patterns?
16:53:43 [Ralph]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/80 issue 80; SKOS-OWL-Patterns
16:54:10 [edsu]: Guus: lets leave things for the moment, and review next week
16:54:56 [edsu]: Guus: would it be good to have a mtg in the beginning of may to talk about remaining issues
16:55:23 [edsu]: ... a day and a 1/2 to get things ready for last call draft
16:55:48 [edsu]: ... May 8-9 (Thurs, Fri)
16:55:57 [edsu]: Ralph: i have conflict May 7-9
16:55:57 [Ralph]: I have a conflict for 7-9 May
16:56:16 [edsu]: marghe: if it is may 5 i can also join
16:56:28 [Simone]: I've conflict for 6 and 8 May
16:56:30 [edsu]: Ralph: i could join first 1/2 of each day remotely
16:56:47 [edsu]: Guus: critical for document editors to be there
16:56:52 [Ralph]: s/remotely/remotely if the meeting is in Amsterdam
16:56:56 [edsu]: aliman: free for me at the moment
16:57:09 [edsu]: edsu: i am free
16:57:17 [edsu]: dlrubin: need to look at calendar
16:57:44 [edsu]: Guus: sean and antoine are not here ...
16:57:51 [edsu]: ... will come back to this next week
16:57:58 [edsu]: Ralph: i could do the following week
16:58:25 [edsu]: Topic: Recipes
16:59:07 [edsu]: Ralph: i think we've take care of resolution to issue-16, but wordnet implementation is waiting on a database decision at w3c
16:59:12 [edsu]: ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
16:59:15 [edsu]: --continues
16:59:26 [edsu]: ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20]
16:59:30 [edsu]: --continues
16:59:38 [edsu]: Topic: Vocabulary Management
16:59:45 [edsu]: Elisa: cleaning up validator bugs
17:00:02 [edsu]: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Vocab/principles-20080204
17:00:12 [edsu]: Guus: meeting adjourned
17:00:12 [Zakim]: -Daniel
17:00:14 [Zakim]: -Clay
17:00:16 [Zakim]: -Elisa_Kendall
17:00:18 [Zakim]: -Marghe
17:00:22 [Zakim]: -berrueta
17:00:23 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-minutes.html Ralph
17:00:24 [edsu]: Ralph: can you hang on for a sec?
17:00:47 [Zakim]: -Guus_Schreiber
17:02:36 [Ralph]: zakim, list attendees
17:02:36 [Zakim]: As of this point the attendees have been edsu, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, Alistair, Clay, Simone, vit, Daniel, Marghe, +1.617.395.aabb, benadida, Elisa_Kendall
17:02:38 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-minutes.html Ralph
17:03:55 [Zakim]: -Ralph
17:03:56 [Zakim]: -edsu
17:05:48 [Zakim]: -Alistair
17:05:50 [Zakim]: -vit
17:05:52 [Zakim]: -benadida
17:05:54 [Zakim]: -Simone
17:05:58 [Zakim]: SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
17:05:59 [Zakim]: Attendees were edsu, berrueta, Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, Alistair, Clay, Simone, vit, Daniel, Marghe, +1.617.395.aabb, benadida, Elisa_Kendall
17:07:45 [Ralph]: zakim, bye
17:07:45 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #swd
17:27:25 [marghe]: marghe has left #swd
17:32:38 [marghe]: marghe has joined #swd
17:32:42 [marghe]: help
17:32:45 [marghe]: zakim, help
17:34:12 [marghe]: marghe has left #swd
18:53:37 [Ralph]: rrsagent, bye
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-actions.rdf :
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Chairs to draft charter extension proposal for SKOS until July 1st [1]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-25-03
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph to publish Feb 12th version of SKOS primer as working draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action05] [2]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-28-03
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Sean to propose a way to handle deprecated properties (updating RDF schema) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/12-swd-minutes.html#action06] [3]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-29-32
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of rdfs isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10] [4]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-29-59
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Alistair and Guus to check the text in the primer on relationship between Concept Schemes and OWL Ontologies. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action13] [5]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-31-04
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Antoine to close ISSUE 54 in tracker with links to resolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-swd-minutes.html#action15] [6]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-31-27
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Alistair to make a proposal for Issue 40 (Concept Coordination) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/29-swd-minutes.html#action09] [7]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-32-53
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [8]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-59-12
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes implementations] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action20] [9]
18:53:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/26-swd-irc#T16-59-26