13:31:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
13:31:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-irc
13:31:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tsdtf
13:31:22 <shadi> zakim, this will be tsd
13:31:22 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start now
13:31:30 <shadi> meeting: TSD TF
13:31:45 <shadi> chair: CarlosV, Christophe
13:31:52 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
13:32:10 <carlosI> carlosI has joined #tsdtf
13:32:26 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Feb/0009.html
13:32:46 <shadi> agenda+ Next steps for current repository content
13:32:50 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #tsdtf
13:32:56 <shadi> agenda+ Review of test samples
13:33:07 <shadi> agenda+ Naming convention and test suite ID in metadata
13:33:21 <shadi> agenda+ API test tool technique & WCAG test procedures
13:33:39 <shadi> agenda+ Review of action items
13:33:45 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #tsdtf
13:34:06 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:34:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
13:34:37 <shadi> zakim, CarlosV, Christophe and Shadi are on the call
13:34:37 <Zakim> I don't understand you, shadi
13:35:13 <shadi> zakim, this is TSD
13:35:13 <Zakim> shadi, this was already WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM
13:35:14 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM
13:35:25 <shadi> zakim, who is here?
13:35:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
13:35:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see CarlosV, Christophe, carlosI, Zakim, RRSAgent, shadi
13:37:21 <shadi> regrets: Vangelis, Michael
13:37:50 <shadi> scribe: Shadi
13:38:00 <shadi> agenda?
13:38:49 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
13:38:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Next steps for current repository content" taken up [from shadi]
13:39:23 <shadi> CS: ~200 tests that map to previous WCAG drafts, not up-to-date
13:39:44 <shadi> ...maybe should start updating instead of reviewing them
13:40:00 <shadi> CV: when is the review process ending for WCAG LCWD?
13:40:13 <shadi> ..how long it will take to process the comments
13:40:41 <shadi> CS: not sure if we'll be ready before the end of march
13:41:11 <shadi> ...risk that if we update stuff they may end up chaning again
13:41:21 <shadi> s/chaning/changing
13:42:23 <Christophe> Editor's draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/
13:42:28 <shadi> SAZ: is there an editors draft planned? it usually has notes on what may change
13:42:44 <shadi> CS: january 28th is the latest
13:45:08 <Christophe> Diff-marked version: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/Overview-diff.html
13:46:02 <shadi> SAZ: think updating the tests may be a good idea, agree with the concern
13:46:10 <shadi> ...maybe editors draft could help
13:46:22 <shadi> CS: could ask editors if there are such plans
13:48:04 <shadi> action: CS ask WCAG editors if there will be an editors draft available, that marks all the areas of the document that are in question to change (so that we can update the tests for the stable parts of the document)
13:55:21 <shadi> CI: in metadata we reference techniques, but these are far from being stable
13:55:38 <shadi> ...can't reference techniques that may change
13:59:09 <shadi> ...not our priority to update the current tests, prefer to improve the review process
13:59:28 <shadi> ...tim's review raised several questions, better to address these first
14:00:50 <shadi> CV: ideal scenario is to be able to update the test while reviewing it
14:01:00 <shadi> ...but no firm position either way
14:01:41 <shadi> CS: another issue is that BenToWeb still has a couple hundred tests ready to be uploaded
14:02:22 <shadi> ...may not make sense to upload them now if they won't be updated
14:04:12 <shadi> SAZ: are there any timing constraints?
14:04:19 <shadi> CV: no, project is over
14:04:35 <Tim> Tim has joined #tsdtf
14:04:42 <Zakim> 'restarting to recover bridge state'
14:05:46 <shadi> RESOLUTION: don't update the tests yet, see first if there will be guidance from WCAG WG
14:05:56 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:06:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tsdtf
14:07:09 <shadi> zakim, this is tsd
14:07:09 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM
14:07:20 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, ??P4, Carlos_Iglesias, Cynthia_Shelly, Tim_Boland
14:08:02 <Christophe> zakim, ??P4 is Christophe_Strobbe
14:08:02 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe; got it
14:08:17 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:08:17 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:08:30 <shadi> Topic: API test tool technique & WCAG test procedures
14:08:55 <shadi> Cynthia: idea is to test widgets like desktop applications
14:09:14 <shadi> ...we have inspect32 tool that help evaluate the API
14:09:45 <shadi> ...helps compare data going to the API vs what you see on the screen
14:10:03 <shadi> ...could help for instance test for WAI-ARIA
14:10:23 <shadi> ...can see if information is truely programmatically determined
14:10:27 <Christophe> zakim, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is Carlos_Velasco
14:10:27 <Zakim> +Carlos_Velasco; got it
14:10:47 <shadi> ...there are some issues, for example lists and tables don't get mapped
14:10:56 <shadi> CV: so you test in the DOM?
14:11:34 <shadi> Cynthia: not in the DOM, in the Windows API - iAccess (?)
14:11:52 <shadi> ...states and roles are exposed to the API
14:12:11 <shadi> ...really useful techniques, faster than examining code
14:13:37 <shadi> SAZ: several steps between code and API, how does platform impact this?
14:14:16 <shadi> Cynthia: mapping same for Windows Firefox or IE, didn't test on other OS
14:15:11 <shadi> ...it is browser dependent to a certain degree
14:16:09 <shadi> CV: did not yet address WAI-ARIA
14:16:50 <shadi> ...only solutions was to write widgets and describe how they interact
14:17:20 <shadi> Cynthia: this is a much faster way to test, for example if things that look like links are in fact links
14:17:46 <shadi> CS: where is this tool?
14:18:17 <shadi> Cynthia: it's freely available, IBM also has a similar tool
14:21:13 <Christophe> URL: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3755582A-A707-460A-BF21-1373316E13F0&displaylang=en
14:21:27 <shadi> SAZ: this relates to work of User Agent working group and the protocols and formats WG
14:21:42 <shadi> ...need to keep that relationship in mind
14:22:51 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
14:28:58 <shadi> Topic: Upcoming meetings
14:29:15 <shadi> Meeting on Tuesday 26th
14:29:29 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:29:30 <shadi> tentative meeting on Tuesday 4th March
14:29:33 <Zakim> -Carlos_Velasco
14:29:36 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:29:38 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
14:29:39 <Zakim> -Carlos_Iglesias
14:29:40 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
14:29:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Carlos_Iglesias, Cynthia_Shelly, Tim_Boland, Christophe_Strobbe, Carlos_Velasco
14:30:05 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:30:09 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:30:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
14:30:10 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:30:19 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
14:30:19 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-actions.rdf :
14:30:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CS ask WCAG editors if there will be an editors draft available, that marks all the areas of the document that are in question to change (so that we can update the tests for the stable parts of the document) [1]
14:30:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/19-tsdtf-irc#T13-48-04
14:30:24 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:30:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tsdtf