IRC log of rif on 2008-02-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:41:44 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:41:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/05-rif-irc
15:42:00 [csma]
zakim, this will be rif
15:42:00 [Zakim]
ok, csma; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
15:42:14 [csma]
Meeting: RIF telecon 5 February 2008
15:42:28 [csma]
Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
15:42:57 [csma]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Feb/0010.html
15:43:41 [csma]
csma has changed the topic to: 5 Feb RIF telecon agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Feb/0010.html
15:44:37 [csma]
Regrets: DaveReynolds, PaulaLaviniaPatranjan, FrançoisBry, Leora Morgenstern, PaulVincent
15:49:37 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
15:56:59 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
16:00:17 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
16:00:18 [Zakim]
+??P33
16:00:35 [csma]
zakim, ??P33 is me
16:01:04 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
16:01:11 [Zakim]
+Sandro
16:01:14 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
16:01:41 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:01:57 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:01:59 [Zakim]
-[IBM]
16:02:01 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:02:02 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:02:03 [Zakim]
+??P42
16:02:12 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
16:02:14 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:02:17 [ChrisW]
zakim, ??P42 is Harold
16:02:20 [Hassan]
zakim, ??P42 is me
16:02:22 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
16:02:32 [Zakim]
+??P53
16:02:43 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
16:02:46 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
16:02:54 [Zakim]
I already had ??P42 as Harold, Hassan
16:02:58 [ChrisW]
zakim harold is hassan
16:03:04 [Zakim]
+Sandro
16:03:30 [ChrisW]
zakim, harold is hassan
16:03:33 [sandro]
zakim, Harold is P42
16:03:39 [sandro]
oops
16:03:40 [Zakim]
+hassan; got it
16:03:50 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'Harold'
16:03:57 [Harold]
zakim, [nrcc] is me
16:04:04 [csma]
zakim, ??P53 is josb
16:04:13 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
16:04:16 [IgorMozetic]
IgorMozetic has joined #rif
16:04:19 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:04:22 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:23 [Zakim]
+josb; got it
16:04:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, hassan (muted), Harold, josb, Sandro
16:05:06 [ChrisW]
Scribe: Harold
16:05:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, because I'm stupid
16:05:21 [Zakim]
+??P60
16:05:29 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'because I'm stupid', ChrisW
16:05:42 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
16:05:44 [Zakim]
+??P61
16:05:48 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:05:54 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:05:55 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, ??P61 is me
16:06:06 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, mute me
16:06:07 [AxelPolleres]
josb, I would refer you to elisa for such conversations, alternatively! ;-)
16:06:09 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: accept minutes of telecon January 29
16:06:17 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: accept minutes of telecon January 29
16:06:26 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
16:06:32 [Zakim]
+IgorMozetic; got it
16:06:46 [Zakim]
IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:06:56 [AdrianP]
Zakim, mute me
16:07:11 [AxelPolleres]
408 done.
16:07:20 [Zakim]
sorry, AdrianP, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:08:23 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:08:26 [Harold]
407 on Jos: Done
16:08:48 [Harold]
402 on Sandro: Done
16:08:58 [Harold]
Chris, can you enter your Continued?
16:09:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.833.aaaa
16:09:44 [Harold]
373 on Sandro: TBD by Feb 8.
16:09:46 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, aaa is me
16:09:46 [Zakim]
sorry, MichaelKifer, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
16:09:58 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, aaaa is me
16:09:58 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer; got it
16:10:09 [Harold]
292 on Sandro: Waiting for other doc to settle done.
16:10:22 [Harold]
274 on Paula: sent regrets.
16:10:38 [Harold]
152 on Vincent: sent regrets.
16:11:08 [josb]
ack me
16:11:11 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:11:11 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
16:11:18 [ChrisW]
TOPIC: Liason
16:11:25 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:11:25 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:11:42 [josb]
I will dial in again
16:11:44 [Harold]
OWL:
16:11:51 [Zakim]
-hassan
16:12:04 [csma]
q?
16:12:14 [Harold]
Peter responded to Chris' response.
16:12:40 [Harold]
(Jan 29th)
16:13:44 [ChrisW]
TOPIC: F2F
16:13:46 [Zakim]
+josb.a
16:13:50 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f9/
16:14:14 [Harold]
TOPIC: OWL
16:14:26 [Harold]
Agreed on a solution.
16:14:34 [Harold]
Have a draft.
16:14:48 [Harold]
Will send to WG if everyone agrees.
16:15:01 [Harold]
In two weeks.
16:15:11 [Harold]
(all of the above by Jos)
16:15:44 [Harold]
Chris: Weekend before f2f?
16:15:51 [AdrianP]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:15:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb, Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer (muted), josb.aa
16:15:55 [Harold]
Jos: Yes, what we'll have by then.
16:16:18 [Harold]
Feb 10th.
16:16:56 [ChrisW]
action: debruij2 to produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17
16:16:56 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - debruij2
16:17:03 [Harold]
s/10/17/
16:17:19 [ChrisW]
action: jdebrui2 to produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17
16:17:19 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - jdebrui2
16:17:27 [ChrisW]
action: jdebruij2 to produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17
16:17:27 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-409 - Produce first draft of OWL proposal by Feb 17 [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2008-02-12].
16:17:30 [Harold]
TOPIC: F2F9
16:17:34 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f9/
16:17:51 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/05-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:18:00 [Harold]
Christian: Plse fill out that questionnaire asap.
16:18:13 [Harold]
... also if you cant attend.
16:18:22 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:18:24 [josb]
all fine
16:18:33 [ChrisW]
Regrets: DaveReynolds PaulaLaviniaPatranjan FrançoisBry LeoraMorgenstern PaulVincent
16:18:42 [Harold]
TOPIC: F2F10
16:19:09 [Harold]
Christian: Should start thinking where it should be in May.
16:19:15 [ChrisW]
f2f10 should be hosted by someone willing to throw a party
16:19:39 [sandro]
heh
16:19:48 [Harold]
... If you want to host it, put it into the wiki: When exactly, etc.
16:20:07 [josb]
Axel, Igor?
16:20:15 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:20:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer (muted), josb.aa
16:20:21 [Harold]
Axel: Can check back, yes.
16:20:41 [Harold]
Christian: Preference would be in Europe, to keep balance, but not a necessity.
16:20:49 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:20:49 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:20:51 [AxelPolleres]
I will check back with our admins, whether May is good/ok to host f2f.
16:20:51 [IgorMozetic]
I can check for F2F10 as well
16:21:10 [Harold]
Michael: How to get from the airport to hotel.s
16:21:27 [Harold]
Christian: Depends on arrival time.
16:21:46 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
16:22:05 [Harold]
... Place d'Italie: Public transportation.
16:22:24 [Harold]
... Cab would be about 70 EUR.
16:22:56 [Harold]
... but around noon (any rush hour) would take longer.
16:23:20 [Harold]
Public transportation would take approx. 1 hour.
16:23:24 [ChrisW]
action: christian to post directions to hotels
16:23:24 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-410 - Post directions to hotels [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2008-02-12].
16:23:25 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:23:25 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:23:56 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:23:56 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:24:00 [Harold]
TOPIC: New BLD and FLD
16:24:33 [AdrianP]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:24:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer, josb.aa, Gary_Hallmark
16:24:37 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:24:47 [Harold]
Christian: Changed link to new BLD.
16:24:53 [csma]
q?
16:25:10 [Harold]
MichaelK: Basically, mainly rewritten from almost scratch.
16:25:38 [Harold]
FLD: Extensibility framework (50-60%)
16:25:48 [Harold]
... NAF, etc. prepared.
16:25:58 [Harold]
... Syntax and Semantics.
16:26:02 [Hassan]
q?
16:26:17 [Harold]
... BLD then defined as dialect derived from this framework.
16:26:18 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
16:26:41 [Harold]
... Syntax (1st section) starts with parameters to define the dialect.
16:26:47 [Hassan]
Why am I not listed (as Hassan)?
16:26:51 [Harold]
... Rest, without ref to framework.
16:27:14 [Harold]
... Skipping 1st section, you dont need to read framework.
16:27:16 [Hassan]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:27:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer, josb.aa, Gary_Hallmark
16:27:32 [Harold]
Semantics: how to derive BLD semantics from that of FLD.
16:28:04 [Harold]
... Save a few paragraphs.
16:28:05 [csma]
q?
16:28:06 [AdrianP]
Hassan, I also have problems with zakim
16:28:26 [Harold]
XML still missing.
16:29:01 [Harold]
Chris: Schedule? Can we freeze? For f2f.
16:29:09 [Harold]
Michael: Yes, syntax.
16:29:18 [Harold]
... Semantics, by Fri.
16:29:49 [Harold]
... FLD finished, so derived Semantics of BLD.
16:30:01 [Harold]
Christian: Why not include negation into BLD?
16:30:31 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
16:30:49 [Harold]
Michael: Different kinds of negation (stable, well-founded, ...), so takes time.
16:31:31 [Harold]
Christian: Since BLD is not meant to be minimal, we could add one later.
16:31:50 [Harold]
Chris: That's the point where dialect splits happen, so not so easy.
16:32:24 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #rif
16:32:33 [Harold]
Michael: Strong negation, perhaps, but still not good to hardcode into BLD.
16:32:37 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/negation ... different forms of negation and why they don't fit together so well.
16:32:49 [Harold]
Chris: Let's get reviewers.
16:33:16 [Harold]
FLD now.
16:33:50 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/FLD
16:34:06 [Harold]
Michael: All in the OLD (Moin Moin) wiki!
16:34:32 [Harold]
Harold: Let's not change the tools while we are running :-)
16:35:40 [ChrisW]
action: cwelty to review FLD
16:35:40 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-411 - Review FLD [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-02-12].
16:35:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:35:58 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ChrisW
16:36:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:02 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Harold
16:36:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:06 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sandro
16:36:09 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:09 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose csma
16:36:12 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:12 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose josb (muted)
16:36:17 [AxelPolleres]
by f2f only, I am afraid.
16:36:19 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:19 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose csma
16:36:23 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:23 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose josb.aa
16:36:24 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:24 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Harold
16:36:27 [ChrisW]
zakim, pick a victim
16:36:27 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Harold
16:36:38 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:36:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Harold, josb (muted), Sandro, AxelPolleres, IgorMozetic (muted), StellaMitchell, MichaelKifer, josb.aa, Gary_Hallmark
16:36:39 [ChrisW]
zakim, you're not helping
16:36:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'you're not helping', ChrisW
16:36:52 [IgorMozetic]
ack me
16:37:07 [Harold]
Jos: Will review BLD by the F2F but not before the next telecon.
16:37:57 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/BLD
16:38:04 [Harold]
Igor: Cannot promise reviewing new BLD by Tuesday, but try it by next week (Wed).
16:39:10 [Harold]
Christian: wiki-tr did not work for new BLD, so disconnected it.
16:39:26 [Harold]
Sandro: Format is wrong.
16:39:41 [Harold]
Christian: Because of HTML?
16:40:40 [Harold]
Sandro: Formatting issues could be debugged in a few minutes.
16:41:04 [ChrisW]
action: igor to review bld by F2F
16:41:04 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-412 - Review bld by F2F [on Igor Mozetic - due 2008-02-12].
16:41:52 [Harold]
Christian: Frozen versions by Fri, Feb 15.
16:42:07 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, mute me
16:42:07 [Zakim]
IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:42:08 [Harold]
TOPIC: Lists
16:42:41 [Harold]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Core/List_Constructor
16:44:20 [Harold]
Harold: Removed Pair from syntax -- it's only a semantic means now.
16:44:25 [IgorMozetic]
ack me
16:44:46 [Harold]
Jos: No chance to read in detail, but looks fine.
16:45:11 [Hassan]
q+
16:45:11 [Harold]
Igor: Had little chance to read in detail, but looks fine.
16:45:30 [csma]
q?
16:47:21 [csma]
ack hassan
16:47:30 [Hassan]
I cannot be heard!
16:47:36 [Hassan]
Who am I?
16:47:45 [sandro]
zakm, unmute hassan
16:47:55 [Harold]
Harold: One issue is that Seq is polyadic (can be called with 0, 1, 2, or more arguments). For that we can instantiate FLD to BLD in a way that allows on polyadic function, namele Seq.
16:48:14 [sandro]
zakim, josb is RealHassan
16:48:14 [Zakim]
+RealHassan; got it
16:48:20 [sandro]
zakim, unmute RealHassan
16:48:20 [Zakim]
RealHassan should no longer be muted
16:48:27 [Harold]
s/allows on polyadic function, namele Seq./allows polyadic functions, namely Seq./
16:48:47 [ChrisW]
zakim, RealHassan is Hassan
16:48:47 [Zakim]
+Hassan; got it
16:48:49 [Harold]
Hassan: Dont understand Ex. 3.
16:51:18 [josb]
q+
16:51:47 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:51:47 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:51:51 [Harold]
... Syntactic unific. seems to need pairs.
16:52:03 [Harold]
Harold: They are in the interpretation.
16:52:08 [csma]
ack josb
16:52:30 [Harold]
Jos: Propose to clarify by removing mentioning of unification.
16:52:42 [Harold]
Hassan: Agree.
16:53:58 [Harold]
Lists can be decomposed, e.g. in conditions using explicit syntactic equality (unification) as shown in Example 3.
16:54:02 [Harold]
-->
16:54:04 [Hassan]
I will read the result
16:54:09 [Harold]
Lists can be decomposed, e.g. in conditions using explicit equality as shown in Example 3.
16:54:38 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
16:54:38 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
16:54:44 [Harold]
Sandro: wiki-tr now works properly on the new BLD.
16:54:52 [Harold]
Christian: Wonderful.
16:55:12 [csma]
http://burns.w3.org/cgi-bin/wiki_tr?source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2005%2Frules%2Fwg%2Fwiki%2FBLD&Go=Go
16:55:15 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
16:55:15 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
16:55:22 [csma]
q?
16:55:32 [Harold]
Michael/Sandro: some garbage left, but will go away.
16:56:02 [Harold]
TOPIC: Metadata
16:56:14 [IgorMozetic]
zakim, mute me
16:56:14 [Zakim]
IgorMozetic should now be muted
16:56:24 [josb]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Annotations
16:56:30 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Annotations
16:57:03 [Harold]
Jos: Also want to tackle Directives.
16:57:42 [Harold]
... So call the superclass 'Annotations'
16:58:04 [Harold]
... Metadata like Author, Date, ... can be ignored.
16:59:12 [Harold]
... Directives like DaveR's import ... cannot be ignored.
17:00:31 [Harold]
... For email exchange with DaveR: Probably want structure for Metadata.
17:00:44 [Harold]
... Inspired by Turtle syntax of RDF.
17:02:18 [Harold]
... Mapping from XML to RDF.
17:02:32 [Harold]
... Shows how RDF processors could use it.
17:02:48 [Harold]
Christian: In the RDF Compatibility doc.
17:02:49 [csma]
q?
17:02:52 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
17:02:52 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
17:02:59 [Harold]
Jos: Yes, later.
17:03:21 [Harold]
Michael: What is Metadata Statement? No example of this.
17:03:41 [josb]
MetadataStatement ( a dc:title "bla" )
17:04:07 [Harold]
Jos: Would be Statement about arbitrary IRIs.
17:04:22 [Harold]
... A possible extension.
17:05:29 [Harold]
Christian: Also a bit skeptical about arbitrary IRIs.
17:05:35 [sandro]
q?
17:05:43 [Harold]
Michael: Who must understand what Import means.
17:05:52 [Harold]
Chris: The dialect.
17:05:53 [sandro]
q+ to ask why directives are grouped with metadata
17:07:02 [Harold]
Christian: Difference between Metadata and Directives.
17:07:05 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
17:07:05 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
17:07:13 [csma]
q?
17:07:13 [sandro]
ack sandro
17:07:14 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to ask why directives are grouped with metadata
17:07:44 [Harold]
Sandro: Dont understand why directives are not fully part of the language?
17:08:23 [ChrisW]
q+
17:08:27 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, unmute me
17:08:27 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should no longer be muted
17:08:31 [MichaelKifer]
q+
17:08:31 [Harold]
Jos: You dont need to change the language when you change the directives.
17:08:57 [Harold]
Michael: Like include statement in C (part of preprocessor)
17:09:11 [Harold]
Sandro: So we would need two processors.
17:09:11 [MichaelKifer]
q-
17:09:20 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
17:09:20 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
17:09:48 [Harold]
... all directives are processed before the rules are processed.
17:10:01 [Harold]
Chris: Only by analogy.
17:10:54 [Harold]
Sandro: The model-theoretic semantics is not the differentiating criterion: Also part of PRD is not specified model-theoretically.
17:11:37 [Harold]
... Gray line between the language itself and its directives.
17:12:04 [Harold]
... Illegal directives should be caught by schema checker.
17:12:34 [Harold]
Christian: Could be included as a piece of syntax rather than as a directive.
17:13:16 [Harold]
Christian: We could say we have no directives, so things get easier.
17:13:17 [sandro]
Sandro: I am comfortable with the idea that directives are style-decision -- you never need to use them, but maybe they will be the better style for some kinds of things.
17:13:38 [Harold]
Jos: Then it would be harder to make extensions.
17:14:02 [sandro]
Sandro: I don't think extending the syntax is hard.
17:14:54 [Harold]
Chris/Christian: Agree with Sandro.
17:15:09 [Harold]
Christian: Why changed presentation syntax?
17:15:27 [Harold]
Jos: If we want to specify anything, it must go there.
17:16:21 [Harold]
Christian: Maybe not call it 'Annotation' to avoid confusion with XML Schema Annotations.
17:16:39 [Harold]
Jos: More worried with OWL Annotations.
17:17:00 [Harold]
Sandro: In XML Schema all Annotations are optional.
17:17:15 [Harold]
... so confusion possible here.
17:17:40 [Harold]
Jos: OK when better name can be found, but first decide about 'Directives'
17:18:00 [Harold]
Christian: Strawpoll.
17:18:09 [ChrisW]
Favor Two kinds?
17:18:15 [ChrisW]
+1
17:18:21 [Hassan]
0
17:18:21 [AxelPolleres]
0
17:18:22 [josb]
+1
17:18:22 [IgorMozetic]
+1 metadata+directives
17:18:22 [Harold]
+1
17:18:25 [MichaelKifer]
+0
17:18:26 [sandro]
-0.5
17:18:26 [GaryHallmark]
why not just define the specific directives you want. the only examples I've heard are import/include
17:19:10 [Harold]
Christian: Yes, Gary, it may be in the syntax of the language itself.
17:19:27 [ChrisW]
Favor one kind of metadata
17:19:32 [GaryHallmark]
+1
17:19:34 [sandro]
+1
17:19:35 [AxelPolleres]
0
17:19:36 [Hassan]
0
17:19:36 [IgorMozetic]
-0
17:19:37 [josb]
0
17:19:39 [Harold]
0
17:19:42 [ChrisW]
0
17:19:42 [MichaelKifer]
-0
17:20:12 [Hassan]
I need to be convinced of the need
17:20:20 [Harold]
Sandro: Want to do it on a case by case basis.
17:20:38 [Harold]
... Import should be part of the language.
17:20:57 [Harold]
Chris: What diff does it make?
17:21:06 [Harold]
Sandro: Avoid unnecessary complication.
17:21:16 [Harold]
... Schema validation can help.
17:21:50 [GaryHallmark]
are there any directives other than import?
17:21:54 [Harold]
Harold: Schematron can always be used for finer-grained validation.
17:22:17 [josb]
Suggested directives for BLD: rif:imports, rif:requiresDataSet, rif:dataModel
17:22:23 [sandro]
Sandro: I'm not opposed to directives in principle, it just seems unnecessary for the examples I'm seeing here.
17:22:43 [GaryHallmark]
jos, what do the last 2 do?
17:22:44 [Harold]
Christian: Next step would be to list all RIF directives of interest.
17:23:11 [Harold]
Sandro: Having directives does change model theory.
17:23:22 [Hassan]
why not? imports are theories...
17:23:39 [Harold]
Harold: Model theory kicks in only after import.
17:23:55 [josb]
ref to dataset and data model is data model of the rules
17:24:05 [josb]
see http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Arch/Data_Sets
17:24:36 [Harold]
Christian/Jos: If we had modules, things would be different.
17:25:19 [Harold]
Jos: Then would not use directives to refer to modules, but use syntax in the language.
17:25:25 [Harold]
Chris: and semantics.
17:25:48 [Harold]
Christian: Was referring to datasets, not modules.
17:26:52 [Harold]
Chris: Wrt model theory, you treat them (datasets?) as if they were part of the symbol space.
17:27:34 [Harold]
Christian: If you want to cross-ref between datasets, how do you do that?
17:28:10 [Harold]
... If this dosent change the model theory, you cannot see it as preprocessing.
17:28:26 [Harold]
Chris: Lost me here.
17:28:37 [Harold]
Christian: Will make up an example.
17:28:58 [ChrisW]
+1
17:29:01 [IgorMozetic]
+1
17:29:06 [csma]
+1
17:29:07 [josb]
+1
17:29:10 [sandro]
-1 don't know enough yet
17:29:13 [Hassan]
0
17:29:14 [Harold]
0
17:29:20 [AxelPolleres]
+1
17:30:02 [ChrisW]
previous poll about prefering Jos' metadata proposal
17:30:07 [GaryHallmark]
-0.5
17:30:27 [Hassan]
+1 on adjourning
17:30:34 [GaryHallmark]
for interop, it would be better to import a rif document containing ground facts than to use rif:requiresDataSet
17:30:37 [IgorMozetic]
+1, bye
17:30:40 [Zakim]
-IgorMozetic
17:30:46 [Zakim]
-Hassan
17:30:52 [ChrisW]
action: Christian to write up an example of what he means regarding the metadata proposal
17:30:52 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-413 - Write up an example of what he means regarding the metadata proposal [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2008-02-12].
17:30:56 [AxelPolleres]
actions to igor and myself to check back f2f10 options...
17:31:00 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
17:31:04 [Zakim]
-josb.aa
17:31:08 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
17:31:10 [AxelPolleres]
bye
17:31:14 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
17:31:14 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been csma, Sandro, ChrisW, hassan, Harold, AxelPolleres, StellaMitchell, IgorMozetic, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Gary_Hallmark
17:31:20 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
17:31:20 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:31:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/05-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:31:29 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
17:31:46 [Zakim]
-Harold
17:32:34 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:32:35 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
17:32:36 [Zakim]
-csma
17:32:37 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:32:38 [Zakim]
Attendees were csma, Sandro, ChrisW, hassan, Harold, AxelPolleres, StellaMitchell, IgorMozetic, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Gary_Hallmark
19:00:58 [csma]
csma has left #rif
19:57:40 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif