IRC log of emotion on 2008-01-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:54:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #emotion
06:54:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc
06:54:35 [bjoern]
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06:54:59 [marc]
zakim, this is INC_EMOXG
06:54:59 [Zakim]
marc, I see INC_EMOXG()2:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be INC_EMOXG".
06:55:11 [marc]
zakim, this will be INC_EMOXG
06:55:11 [Zakim]
ok, marc; I see INC_EMOXG()2:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
06:55:49 [marc]
agenda+ Review of results from Questionnaire
06:55:52 [ian]
yes
06:56:01 [marc]
agenda+ First discussion of alternatives sent in various formats
06:56:12 [ian]
do you have the url of the agenda?
06:56:13 [marc]
agenda+ Date of next meeting
06:56:30 [marc]
Ah, thanks, that's very kind of you Ian!
06:56:55 [marc]
The Agenda URL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0013.html
06:57:12 [Zakim]
INC_EMOXG()2:00AM has now started
06:57:16 [marc]
The "Cheat Sheet" for scribes: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/emotion/group/IRC-Cheat-Sheet.html
06:57:19 [Zakim]
+Ian_Wilson
06:57:36 [Zakim]
+??P1
06:58:12 [ian]
Meeting: EMOXG working group
06:58:51 [bjoern]
Zakim, I am +498928928548
06:58:51 [Zakim]
sorry, bjoern, I do not see a party named '+498928928548'
06:59:30 [Zakim]
+ +7.233.aaaa
07:00:20 [marc]
zakim, who is here?
07:00:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ian_Wilson, ??P1, +7.233.aaaa
07:00:21 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bjoern, RRSAgent, Zakim, marc, ian, trackbot-ng
07:00:23 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.567.aabb
07:00:34 [felix]
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07:00:44 [ian]
Chair: Marc Schroeder
07:00:47 [marc]
zakim, I am aaaa
07:00:47 [Zakim]
+marc; got it
07:00:50 [felix]
good moring
07:01:14 [marc]
zakim, ??P1 is bjoern
07:01:14 [Zakim]
+bjoern; got it
07:01:15 [bjoern]
Zakim, I am +??P1
07:01:16 [Zakim]
sorry, bjoern, I do not see a party named '+??P1'
07:01:18 [felix]
moring /morning
07:01:45 [Jianhua]
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07:01:49 [marc]
Scribe: Ian_Wilson
07:02:00 [marc]
ScribeNick: ian
07:02:49 [Zakim]
+ +49.303.4.aacc
07:02:50 [ian]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0013.html
07:03:13 [marc]
zakim, aacc is felix
07:03:13 [Zakim]
+felix; got it
07:03:36 [Zakim]
+ +49.381.4.aadd
07:04:02 [marc]
zakim, aadd is christian
07:04:02 [Zakim]
+christian; got it
07:04:20 [marc]
agenda?
07:04:45 [Jianhua]
Hi all, the skype seems not working at the moment, I cannot make the calling, I will keep trying
07:05:04 [marc]
ok Jianhua, we'll try to type more then!"
07:05:58 [Christian]
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07:06:58 [marc]
next item
07:07:31 [marc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0015.html
07:07:35 [Bill]
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07:07:42 [marc]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-emotion/2008Jan/0016.html
07:07:46 [Zakim]
+ +35321aaee
07:08:24 [cpeter]
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07:08:43 [marc]
zakim, aaee is Dylan
07:08:43 [Zakim]
+Dylan; got it
07:09:45 [ian]
marc: says feedback for questionairre was good
07:10:29 [ian]
marc: notes people from outside the group gave valuable feedback
07:10:41 [Kostas]
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07:10:48 [Zakim]
+??P7
07:11:00 [ian]
marc: notes that results of questionairre are in general agreement
07:11:21 [marc]
zakim, ??P7 is Kostas
07:11:21 [Zakim]
+Kostas; got it
07:11:28 [Dylan]
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07:12:17 [ian]
marc: notes that emotion categories and dimensions are agreed must haves
07:13:05 [ian]
perhaps we say over 75% are definately in?
07:14:31 [bjoern]
or over 70% (3 important ones @ 71%...)
07:21:14 [ian]
ian: mentions that some items may be easy to impliment through the structure of XML
07:21:47 [ian]
marc: these may require a detailed discussion that may be too in depth for now
07:22:17 [marc]
a suggestion: we could draw a line at, e.g., 70%,
07:22:32 [marc]
and suggest that those above 70% are "definitely in".
07:22:43 [dyl_an]
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07:22:43 [marc]
That gives us a list of 11 requirements,
07:22:55 [marc]
and then people can discuss why the list should be changed.
07:23:03 [dyl_an]
tt
07:23:22 [bjoern]
agrees.
07:24:43 [dyl_an]
tt
07:25:11 [ian]
as an aside i will split the list into "meta data", "body data" and "link data"
07:27:18 [ian]
ACTION: ian to create list of "first cut" items to discuss and circulate due by tomorrow
07:27:18 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-9 - Create list of \"first cut\" items to discuss and circulate due by tomorrow [on Ian Wilson - due 2008-02-07].
07:27:49 [Dylan]
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07:28:19 [Zakim]
+Myriam_Lamolle
07:28:52 [ian]
dylan: asks about confidence ratings, is there one meta or confidence ratings for each item
07:29:38 [Myriam]
Myriam has joined #emotion
07:30:08 [ian]
marc: we will discuss that later when we address each item
07:30:21 [marc]
next item
07:30:52 [marc]
owl example from bill
07:30:56 [marc]
rdf example from ian
07:31:01 [marc]
deep xml example from myriam
07:31:07 [marc]
shallow xml example from bjoern
07:32:03 [marc]
one key choice: how explicit?
07:34:12 [marc]
beiing explicit would mean giving up on "simple cases should look simple"
07:34:57 [ian]
ian: annotations and models have somewhat differing requirements
07:35:05 [Myriam]
I thing it's better to use
07:35:17 [Myriam]
simple cases in the fisrt step
07:35:27 [ian]
marc: we want to stay with 1 format however
07:35:52 [Myriam]
Deep structure is more flexible
07:36:21 [ian]
marc: do we want to trade simplicity for explicitness?
07:37:18 [Myriam]
but it's very difficult to constraint data type
07:37:38 [Myriam]
it's eaisier with attribute
07:39:11 [Myriam]
if you want use a range like [0, 1] it's better to use a flat structure
07:39:24 [ian]
ian: how important is it that we can interoperate with other formats and other groups?
07:39:34 [Myriam]
yes
07:39:56 [ian]
dylan: agrees, that interoperation is crucial
07:40:16 [Myriam]
the mapping will be more or less complex
07:42:27 [ian]
dylan: thinks going to an ontology is a step too far and making a comitment to an ontology is too much
07:43:01 [ian]
ian: agrees, thinks an ontology would be too concrete wheras xml is more abstract
07:44:16 [Myriam]
perhaps, RDF is an intermediate between XML and OWL
07:46:43 [Myriam]
it's possible to use like XML
07:46:54 [Myriam]
but also to create an ontology
07:49:54 [Myriam]
XML or RDF namespace are the same goal
07:50:05 [Myriam]
the disambiguous of type
07:50:27 [Myriam]
but some RDF namespaces are a norm
07:50:30 [Myriam]
like DC
07:51:08 [ian]
ian: rdf requires unambiguous namespaces and terms
07:51:16 [Myriam]
yes
07:51:41 [Myriam]
and XML accept qualified or unqualified terms
07:52:27 [Myriam]
but we can f
07:52:40 [Myriam]
force the utilisation of namespace
07:54:24 [ian]
marc: wants to know if xml, rdf and owl can be sub classed?
07:54:41 [Myriam]
yes for XML
07:55:19 [ian]
ACTION: ian to investigate sub classing in RDF due next friday
07:55:19 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-10 - Investigate sub classing in RDF due next friday [on Ian Wilson - due 2008-02-07].
07:55:59 [Myriam]
I think also for OWL because it's based on object programming
07:57:09 [ian]
do we have a link for sub classing XML?
07:57:49 [Myriam]
If you write a simpleType to restrict xsd:integer
07:57:58 [Myriam]
to range [0,1]
07:58:44 [Myriam]
we can also use xsd:restruction from a complexType
07:59:47 [Myriam]
in XSD
08:00:25 [ian]
cane you find an example?
08:00:30 [ian]
can
08:00:33 [Myriam]
yes
08:00:41 [bjoern]
yes
08:00:54 [marc]
is there an agreement that we want to be explicit?
08:00:58 [ian]
yes
08:01:01 [bjoern]
yes
08:01:45 [Myriam]
in http://www.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~lamolle/EMOXG/emoxg-basetype.xsd
08:01:57 [Myriam]
we can see basic type for EMOXG
08:02:25 [ian]
Christian: says we dont want to be too explicit, only with core attributes
08:02:42 [Myriam]
and in http://www.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~lamolle/EMOXG/emoXG0.1.xsd
08:02:57 [Myriam]
we can see I extend or restrict basic type
08:03:08 [marc]
Let's investigate how the various formalisms can deal with the "plug in" challenge
08:04:09 [Myriam]
I think it exist 3 formalisms to "plug in"...
08:04:11 [Myriam]
in XSD
08:06:13 [Myriam]
can we use the same examples to compare the "plug-in"?
08:07:04 [Myriam]
or the sub-classsing?
08:07:12 [ian]
ACTION: Myriam to investigate subclassing in XML due 2008-02-21
08:07:12 [trackbot-ng]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Myriam
08:07:49 [ian]
ACTION: Bill to investigate subclassing in OWL due 2008-02-21
08:07:49 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-11 - Investigate subclassing in OWL due 2008-02-21 [on Bill Jarrold - due 2008-02-07].
08:09:01 [marc]
Let's note for the future: another question we will have to look at is how the language can be "plugged into" another language such as EARL or SMIL etc.
08:10:30 [marc]
ACTION: Marc to describe the challenge of plugging in different categories etc. within the language - due 15 Feb
08:10:30 [trackbot-ng]
Created ACTION-12 - describe the challenge of plugging in different categories etc. within the language [on Marc Schröder - due 2008-02-15].
08:12:21 [marc]
next item
08:13:03 [marc]
Next meeting should be the "late slot" (15:00 UTC); I suggest the week
08:13:03 [marc]
of 25 February, day to be determined with Doodle.
08:13:15 [ian]
all: agreed
08:13:27 [bjoern]
all:agreed,2
08:13:40 [Dylan]
Thanks everyone. Bye!
08:13:44 [Zakim]
- +1.512.567.aabb
08:13:45 [Zakim]
-Kostas
08:13:45 [bjoern]
bye
08:13:47 [Zakim]
-christian
08:13:49 [Zakim]
-bjoern
08:13:50 [Myriam]
bye
08:13:50 [Zakim]
-felix
08:13:55 [Zakim]
-Myriam_Lamolle
08:13:59 [Zakim]
-Dylan
08:15:22 [marc]
Regrets: Jean-Claude_Martin, Enrico_Zovato, Paolo_Baggia, Eva_oliveira, Catherine_Pelachaud
08:18:07 [ian]
Present: Bill Jarold, Ian Wilson, Marc Schroeder, Christian Peter, Dylan Evans, Jianhua Tao, Kostas Karpousis, Myriam Lamolle, Bjoern Schuller, Felix Burkhardt
08:18:26 [ian]
rrsagent, make logs public
08:18:42 [ian]
rrsagent, draft minutes
08:18:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-minutes.html ian
08:19:21 [ian]
bye
08:19:32 [Zakim]
-Ian_Wilson
08:19:34 [Zakim]
-marc
08:19:35 [Zakim]
INC_EMOXG()2:00AM has ended
08:19:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ian_Wilson, +7.233.aaaa, +1.512.567.aabb, marc, bjoern, +49.303.4.aacc, felix, +49.381.4.aadd, christian, +35321aaee, Dylan, Kostas, Myriam_Lamolle
08:19:54 [marc]
zakim, bye
08:19:54 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #emotion
08:19:59 [marc]
rrsagent, bye
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-actions.rdf :
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ian to create list of "first cut" items to discuss and circulate due by tomorrow [1]
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T07-27-18
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ian to investigate sub classing in RDF due next friday [2]
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T07-55-19
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Myriam to investigate subclassing in XML due 2008-02-21 [3]
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T08-07-12
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Bill to investigate subclassing in OWL due 2008-02-21 [4]
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T08-07-49
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Marc to describe the challenge of plugging in different categories etc. within the language - due 15 Feb [5]
08:19:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/31-emotion-irc#T08-10-30