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16:03:11 <Norm> Zakim, who's on the call?
16:03:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.415.404.aaaa, Alessandro_Vernet, Norm
16:03:29 <Norm> Zakim, aaaa is alexmilowski 
16:03:29 <Zakim> +alexmilowski; got it
16:03:51 <Zakim> +??P46
16:03:53 <Norm> Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
16:03:53 <Norm> Date: 24 January 2008
16:03:53 <Norm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/01/24-agenda
16:03:53 <Norm> Meeting: 99
16:03:53 <Norm> Chair: Norm
16:03:54 <Norm> Scribe: Norm
16:03:55 <ruilopes> Zakim, ? is me
16:03:55 <Zakim> +ruilopes; got it
16:03:56 <Norm> ScribeNick: Norm
16:04:12 <richard> richard has joined #xproc
16:04:54 <Zakim> +??P50
16:04:58 <richard> zakim, ? is me
16:05:00 <Zakim> +richard; got it
16:05:12 <Norm> Zakim, who's on the phne?
16:05:12 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Norm.
16:05:23 <Norm> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexmilowski, Alessandro_Vernet, Norm, ruilopes, richard
16:05:32 <Norm> Regrets: Paul
16:05:59 <MoZ> MoZ has joined #xproc
16:06:36 <AndrewF> AndrewF has joined #xproc
16:06:36 <Norm> Present: Alex, Alessandro, Norm, Rui, Richard
16:06:40 <MoZ> Zakim, what is the code ?
16:06:40 <Zakim> the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MoZ
16:06:52 <Norm> Present: Alex, Alessandro, Norm, Rui, Richard, Andrew
16:06:54 <Norm> Topic: Accept this agenda?
16:06:54 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/01/24-agenda
16:07:01 <Norm> Accepted.
16:07:07 <Norm> Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
16:07:07 <Norm> -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/01/17-minutes
16:07:13 <Norm> Accepted.
16:07:18 <Norm> Topic: Next meeting: telcon 31 January 2008?
16:07:24 <Zakim> + +95247aabb
16:07:25 <Zakim> +??P9
16:07:35 <AndrewF> zakim, ? is Andrew
16:07:35 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
16:07:40 <MoZ> Zakim, aabb is me
16:07:40 <Zakim> +MoZ; got it
16:07:49 <Norm> Present: Alex, Alessandro, Norm, Rui, Richard, Andrew, Mohamed
16:07:56 <Norm> No regrets given
16:08:15 <Norm> Topic: 70. Circular imports
16:08:48 <alexmilowski> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2008Jan/0040.html
16:09:29 <Norm> Alex: Essentially, we want to get it right without describing a particular algorithm
16:09:40 <Norm> ...I took the text from the XML spec and tweaked it a bit
16:10:41 <Norm> Alex: The algorithm in the proposed Appendix G is based on Henry's proposal.
16:12:24 <Norm> Norm: I'm happy with the changes to section 5, I'll need to study the appendix more
16:12:31 <Norm> Alex: The appendix is non-normative, right?
16:12:35 <Norm> Norm: Yes.
16:12:48 <ht> HST agrees
16:13:28 <Norm> Richard: About the retreival URIs, if you did it naively, you might think that you had to go and fetch the document every time to see if its retreival URI winds up being the same as one you've already got.
16:13:46 <Norm> ...But in practice, if its literal URI is the same, you can assume its actual URI is the same too.
16:14:00 <Norm> Alex: Do we have language elsewhere about consistency of resource?
16:14:11 <Norm> Richard: Even if it did change, there's no gaurantee that you'll see it.
16:15:35 <Norm> Norm: So we should say that in section 5
16:15:45 <Norm> Richard: Either that, or some generral statement along the lines that Alex suggested
16:16:32 <ht> zakim, please call ht-781
16:16:32 <Zakim> ok, ht; the call is being made
16:16:33 <Zakim> +Ht
16:16:40 <Norm> Norm: I think a general statement is probably the way to go
16:17:00 <Norm> Present: Alex, Alessandro, Norm, Rui, Richard, Andrew, Mohamed, Henry
16:18:05 <MoZ> I think we cannot avoid caching neither
16:18:31 <Norm> Alex: Maybe we could do a special case for import. Shouldn't we say that however you get a URI, the declarations will be consistent.
16:20:18 <Norm> ACTION: Alex to tweak the setting of p:import
16:20:31 <Norm> s/setting/text of/
16:21:10 <Norm> Topic: 95. XSLT pattern matching in Pviewport
16:21:15 <Norm> s/Pvie/p:vie/
16:22:18 <Norm> Norm: I thought we were clear on 95, but yes we should be
16:22:39 <Norm> ACTION: Norm to check the clarity of the sepc
16:22:44 <Norm> s/sepc/spec/
16:23:16 <Norm> Topic: 96. Compound steps with empty subpipelines
16:23:25 <Norm> Norm: Static error 27.
16:24:47 <Norm> Topic: 97. p:set-attributes and attributes with xmlns prefix
16:25:33 <Norm> Richard: Namespaces don't appear in the attributes property in the infoset
16:26:00 <Norm> Alex: I think we should allow users to set xmlns: attributes.
16:26:11 <Norm> ...Namespace fixup will correct user errors.
16:26:36 <Norm> Richard: I don't think so.
16:26:49 <Norm> ...Namespaces aren't attributes as far as the infoset is concerned.
16:28:13 <Norm> Alex: I think p:add-attribute could add namespaces.
16:28:18 <Norm> Richard: Bad. Bad. Bad.
16:28:48 <Norm> Henry: Here's the question: can you use xsl:attribute to add a namespace decl?
16:28:50 <Norm> Norm: No.
16:28:59 <Norm> Henry: Right, the add-attribute shouldn't either.
16:29:06 <Norm> s/the add/then add/
16:29:15 <Norm> Alex: But you could still do it with a transform
16:29:20 <Norm> Henry: I think my analysis holds
16:29:23 <Norm> Norm: +1
16:30:08 <Norm> Richard: The rule should be that you can't manipulate namespaces by manipulating namespace attributes
16:30:41 <Norm> Henry: The only circumstance you need it for is when you want to create a prefix for a QName that you're going to use in a value
16:30:51 <Norm> Alex: I think add-attribute needs a modification and set-attributes needs a clarification.
16:31:13 <Norm> ACTION: Alex to consider the attribute steps and make appropriate changes
16:32:18 <Norm> Richard: In a sense this is already implicit in the infoset conformance section.
16:33:35 <Norm> Mohamed: I'm not sure I understand the path. The original question was do the namespace attributes get copied. The answer is 'no'
16:33:59 <Norm> Alex: Right. We're going to clarify that set-attributes doesn't copy them and clean up the other steps too.
16:34:22 <Norm> Topic: 98. Typo in p:label-elements
16:34:28 <Norm> Norm: Yep
16:34:59 <Norm> Topic: 99. Execution order of steps
16:38:16 <Norm> Alex: Event/consequence ordering is determined by the connections.
16:39:09 <Norm> Norm: What I recall is that if you mandated document order, then you'd have to make forward reference an error. But the impl can fix the order, so why make theuser move teh steps around?
16:39:39 <Norm> Norm: It seems an unnecessary burden on the user.
16:40:41 <Norm> Henry: I still don't know what he means by "do things"
16:41:14 <Norm> Some discussion of what ordering actually means
16:41:33 <MoZ> it is NOT a total order at all !
16:42:25 <MoZ> 1- parallele exection need this feature
16:42:34 <MoZ> 2 - automatic generation would also need this
16:43:25 <Norm> Richard: I think there are straightforward cases where it's natural to write in the pipeline using forward references.
16:44:12 <Norm> ...Consider a straightforward pipeline with an XSLT step in the middle where the stylesheet is generated. It's natural to put the stylesheet generation at the end of the pipeline.
16:44:49 <Norm> Richard: Is it always possible to write pipelines without forward references?
16:44:53 <Norm> Norm: I think so.
16:45:28 <Norm> Richard: Another way to say this is that the XML syntax is just one representation of the pipelien. It could also be represented with a box-and-arrow diagram.
16:46:04 <Norm> Alex: We're all in agreement, right?
16:46:40 <Norm> Alex: Maybe a note?
16:47:44 <Norm> ACTION: Henry to reply and close the issue
16:48:12 <Norm> Topic: Any other business?
16:48:19 <Norm> Alex: We have comments that continue to straggle in.
16:48:25 <Norm> ...What is our plan?
16:50:24 <Norm> Norm: We're going to do another last call, as soon as that's ready we'll push it out
16:50:38 <Norm> ...Until then, I don't see any harm in looking at the comments that come in.
16:50:46 <Norm> Adjourned.
16:51:42 <Zakim> -Norm
16:51:44 <Zakim> -richard
16:51:45 <Zakim> -MoZ
16:51:46 <Zakim> -Ht
16:51:48 <Zakim> -alexmilowski
16:51:49 <Norm> rrsange, set logs world-visible
16:51:49 <Zakim> -Alessandro_Vernet
16:51:51 <Zakim> -ruilopes
16:51:52 <Zakim> -Andrew
16:51:53 <Zakim> XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
16:51:54 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.415.404.aaaa, Alessandro_Vernet, Norm, alexmilowski, ruilopes, richard, +95247aabb, Andrew, MoZ, Ht
16:51:56 <Norm> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:52:03 <Norm> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:52:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-xproc-minutes.html Norm
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