15:40:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
15:40:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc
15:40:47 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
15:40:54 <Steven> zakim, this will be forms
15:40:54 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see HTML_Forms()10:45AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:41:08 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly FOrms WG teleconference
15:41:15 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has joined #forms
15:41:31 <John_Boyer> zakim, code?
15:41:31 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), John_Boyer
15:41:40 <John_Boyer> nice
15:42:00 <John_Boyer> Steven, thanks for doing the typing
15:42:10 <Steven> :-)
15:42:19 <CharlieW> CharlieW has joined #forms
15:42:45 <Steven> s/FO/Fo/
15:44:00 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has now started
15:44:00 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has joined #forms
15:44:02 <wellsk> wellsk has joined #forms
15:44:07 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:44:15 <unl> unl has joined #forms
15:44:17 <CharlieW> zakim, who is here?
15:44:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBM]
15:44:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see unl, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
15:44:24 <CharlieW> zakim, [IBM] is CharlieW
15:44:24 <Zakim> +CharlieW; got it
15:44:33 <Zakim> + +1.250.294.aaaa
15:44:39 <Zakim> +wellsk
15:44:44 <John_Boyer> zakim, I am +1.250
15:44:44 <Zakim> +John_Boyer; got it
15:44:52 <Zakim> +unl
15:45:04 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:45:05 <wellsk> zakim, who is here?
15:45:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see CharlieW, John_Boyer, wellsk, unl, Nick_van_den_Bleeken
15:45:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see nick, unl, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
15:45:11 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:45:11 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:45:13 <Zakim> +Steven
15:46:22 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
15:46:42 <Roger> Roger has joined #forms
15:47:13 <Rafael> Rafael has joined #forms
15:47:18 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0036
15:47:23 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0036
15:47:24 <John_Boyer> Chair: John
15:47:30 <John_Boyer> Scribe: Leigh
15:47:37 <John_Boyer> Regrets: MarkB, Erik, Nick
15:47:44 <nick> john I'm here
15:48:06 <Steven> Regrets: MarkB, Erik
15:48:18 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
15:48:58 <Zakim> + +34.91.2.aabb
15:49:05 <Roger> zakim, aabb is Roger
15:49:06 <Zakim> +Roger; got it
15:49:16 <Roger> zakim, Roger has Rafael
15:49:16 <Zakim> +Rafael; got it
15:49:33 <Zakim> -Roger
15:50:02 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
15:50:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see CharlieW, John_Boyer, wellsk, unl, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, Leigh_Klotz
15:50:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rafael, Roger, klotz, nick, unl, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
15:50:16 <nick> did anybody already booked a hotel for the ftf?
15:50:37 <Zakim> +??P6
15:50:43 <Roger> zakim, P6 is Roger
15:50:43 <Zakim> sorry, Roger, I do not recognize a party named 'P6'
15:50:55 <Roger> zakim, ??P6 is Roger
15:50:55 <Zakim> +Roger; got it
15:51:47 <wellsk> zakim, mute wellsk
15:51:47 <Zakim> wellsk should now be muted
15:55:59 <wellsk> zakim, unmute wellsk
15:55:59 <Zakim> wellsk should no longer be muted
15:56:04 <nick> http://www.radisson.com/researchtrianglenc/
15:56:55 <wellsk> wellsk, mute me
15:57:03 <wellsk> zakim, mute wellsk
15:57:03 <Zakim> wellsk should now be muted
15:58:06 <jturner> jturner has joined #forms
15:59:00 <jturner> zakim, code
15:59:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', jturner
15:59:15 <jturner> zakim, code?
15:59:15 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jturner
15:59:17 <unl> unl has joined #forms
16:01:39 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0010.html
16:04:25 <Zakim> +??P24
16:04:41 <jturner> zakim, ??P24 is me
16:04:41 <Zakim> +jturner; got it
16:05:05 <unl> zakim, mute me
16:05:05 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
16:05:14 <jturner> zakim, mute me
16:05:14 <Zakim> jturner should now be muted
16:06:52 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition
16:07:37 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Externally_defined_models_with_src_attribute
16:12:47 <nick> I can do that
16:12:49 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
16:13:22 <unl> i don't like this idea at all ...
16:13:34 <unl> zakim, unmute me
16:13:34 <Zakim> unl should no longer be muted
16:13:41 <nick> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
16:14:18 <nick> zakim, unmute me
16:14:18 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken was not muted, nick
16:19:04 <Steven-eee> Steven-eee has joined #forms
16:22:04 <Schnitz> Schnitz has joined #forms
16:22:11 <Schnitz> zakim, code?
16:22:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 36767 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Schnitz
16:23:06 <Zakim> +??P25
16:23:14 <Schnitz> zakim, ??p25 is me
16:23:14 <Zakim> +Schnitz; got it
16:23:19 <Schnitz> zakim, mute me
16:23:19 <Zakim> Schnitz should now be muted
16:24:19 <Steven> q+
16:24:57 <John_Boyer> ack Steven
16:26:24 <klotz> "This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man. "
16:27:27 <CharlieW> Amen
16:30:24 <klotz> +1
16:31:14 <unl> zakim, mute me
16:31:14 <Zakim> unl should now be muted
16:32:15 <Roger> Roger has joined #forms
16:35:31 <Schnitz> I prefer dogs over cats, too
16:35:51 <Schnitz> I'm a cat too much of myself already...
16:38:03 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context
16:39:14 <John_Boyer> <input name="result" calculate="a + b"> ...
16:39:21 <John_Boyer> not
16:39:33 <John_Boyer> <input name="result" calculate="../a + ../b"> ...
16:40:47 <John_Boyer> The first is much easier to write
16:41:38 <John_Boyer> <data> <a/> <b/> <result/> <a/> <b/> <result/> </data>
16:43:11 <John_Boyer> <bind nodeset="result"> <bind context=".." calculate="a + b"/> </bind>
16:43:13 <CharlieW> * back in 5
16:45:07 <John_Boyer> <bind nodeset="result"> <calculate context=".." value="a+b"/> </bind>
16:46:02 <wellsk> wouldn't this also help in cross model use cases?
16:46:24 <John_Boyer> come back Steven!
16:46:26 <klotz> Charlie said "back in 5" and we heard a click.
16:46:34 <wellsk> me too
16:46:46 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
16:46:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see CharlieW, John_Boyer, wellsk (muted), unl (muted), Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, Leigh_Klotz, Roger, jturner (muted), Schnitz (muted)
16:46:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roger, Schnitz, Steven-eee, unl, jturner, Rafael, klotz, nick, wellsk, John_Boyer, CharlieW, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
16:46:49 <Roger> we can hear John too
16:47:19 <nick> zakim, mute me
16:47:19 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted
16:48:02 <CharlieW> * is back
16:49:22 <unl> why?
16:49:34 <wellsk> zakim, unmute me
16:49:34 <Zakim> wellsk should no longer be muted
16:53:43 <nick> but if you can use the instance() function in the context you can use it also directly in the calculate
16:54:07 <nick> (with 'the' I mean the one that goes cross model)
16:54:22 <John_Boyer> <model id="outer"> <model id="inner"> <instance id="X"> ... </model> <bind nodeset="result"> <calculate context="instance('X')" value="a+b"/>
16:55:46 <nick> is equal to <bind nodeset="result" calculate="instance('X')/a + instance('X')/b" />
16:55:53 <John_Boyer> Turn that inside out.
16:57:12 <John_Boyer> yes, Nick, except the outer model author will have an easier time with the context attr
16:57:46 <Roger> Roger has joined #forms
16:58:35 <nick> but isn't charlie going to write something now?
16:58:49 <nick> You can put on my list
16:58:55 <nick> it
16:58:56 <nick> ok
16:59:14 <unl> yes
16:59:17 <Schnitz> yup
16:59:18 <jturner> yes
16:59:22 <wellsk> zakim, mute me
16:59:22 <Zakim> wellsk should now be muted
16:59:25 <John_Boyer> something's wrong with your connection only
16:59:29 <Steven> ok
16:59:34 <Steven> zakim, drop me
16:59:34 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected
16:59:35 <Zakim> -Steven
16:59:53 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
16:59:54 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
16:59:55 <Zakim> +Steven
17:00:03 <nick> I can do it
17:00:36 <John_Boyer> Default values on controls
17:00:46 <klotz> ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken to take on general topic of http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context but with changes as necessary.
17:00:47 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-447 - Van den Bleeken to take on general topic of http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context but with changes as necessary. [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2008-01-30].
17:00:54 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_support_for_default_values_without_the_need_of_an_instance_element
17:01:42 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
17:01:50 <klotz> ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken on strawman proposal writing for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level
17:01:50 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-448 - Van den Bleeken on strawman proposal writing for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2008-01-30].
17:02:30 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition
17:03:01 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Externally_defined_models_with_src_attribute
17:03:25 <klotz> ACTION: Charlie Wiecha and Mark Birbeck to write strawman for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition
17:03:25 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Charlie
17:03:39 <nick> hmmm, missed that
17:03:55 <nick> do you have a link?
17:04:41 <John_Boyer> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jan/0011.html
17:04:45 <nick> thanks
17:06:03 <John_Boyer> Default values on controls
17:06:10 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_support_for_default_values_without_the_need_of_an_instance_element
17:07:24 <nick> default-value ;)
17:08:26 <nick> that is esay I guess, just create the implicit instance and serialize it
17:08:45 <nick> also serializing non-relevant nodes
17:09:16 <Schnitz> yup
17:09:28 <Schnitz> default
17:10:22 <nick> don't like value, because it isn't the real value, but the initial value
17:10:34 <Steven> initial=
17:10:46 <Schnitz> initial is cool too
17:11:03 <Schnitz> ?
17:11:06 <nick> zakim, unmute me
17:11:06 <Zakim> Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted
17:11:14 <Schnitz> right
17:11:28 <Schnitz> Raggett would have cool it
17:11:30 <Schnitz> StartWith
17:11:40 <Schnitz> s/cool/called
17:12:03 <Schnitz> or BeginWith
17:12:21 <Schnitz> or show
17:12:53 <Schnitz> or even better! Intent-based "propose=
17:13:02 <Schnitz> "propose to the user"...
17:13:12 <Schnitz> == default value
17:13:16 <Schnitz> anyways
17:13:58 <Roger> implicit
17:14:37 <Steven> The value of calling it value is that it is valuable to specify that the initial value is the value of vlaue
17:14:45 <Schnitz> LOL
17:14:57 <Schnitz> Steven, R U serious?
17:15:14 <Schnitz> ;-)
17:15:34 <Schnitz> default
17:15:38 <Schnitz> default:value
17:15:39 <unl> i'd prefer 'initial', because it makes it more clear
17:15:41 <Schnitz> :-
17:15:41 <Schnitz> )
17:15:53 <nick> zakim mute me
17:15:54 <Schnitz> unl, very german
17:16:06 <unl> sorry
17:16:07 <Schnitz> I like "propose" (to the user)
17:16:19 <Schnitz> unl, no prob :-) kiddin'
17:16:34 <Schnitz> propose would be so Raggett HTML style
17:16:46 <Schnitz> like "needed" instead of required
17:16:54 <unl> :-o
17:17:28 <Schnitz> bye!
17:17:28 <jturner> thx bye
17:17:29 <unl> bye
17:17:30 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
17:17:31 <Zakim> -wellsk
17:17:32 <Zakim> -Roger
17:17:34 <Zakim> -Steven
17:17:34 <jturner> bye
17:17:35 <Zakim> -CharlieW
17:17:36 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
17:17:37 <Zakim> -unl
17:17:42 <wellsk> wellsk has left #forms
17:17:44 <Zakim> -jturner
17:17:46 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
17:17:56 <John_Boyer> zakim, who is here?
17:17:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Schnitz
17:17:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see Roger, Schnitz, Steven-eee, unl, klotz, nick, John_Boyer, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, trackbot-ng
17:18:04 <John_Boyer> zakim, drop Schnitz
17:18:04 <Zakim> Schnitz is being disconnected
17:18:06 <Zakim> HTML_Forms()10:45AM has ended
17:18:07 <Zakim> Attendees were CharlieW, +1.250.294.aaaa, wellsk, John_Boyer, unl, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, Steven, Leigh_Klotz, +34.91.2.aabb, Rafael, Roger, jturner, Schnitz
17:18:14 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, make minutes
17:18:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-minutes.html John_Boyer
17:18:22 <John_Boyer> rrsagent, bye
17:18:22 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-actions.rdf :
17:18:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken to take on general topic of http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Unified_evaluation_context but with changes as necessary. [1]
17:18:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc#T17-00-46
17:18:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Nick van den Bleeken on strawman proposal writing for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Add_model_item_properties_to_UI_level [2]
17:18:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc#T17-01-50
17:18:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Charlie Wiecha and Mark Birbeck to write strawman for http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Nested_models_for_convenient_grouping_and_composition [3]
17:18:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc#T17-03-25
17:20:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
17:20:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/23-forms-irc
17:43:25 <John_Boyer> John_Boyer has left #forms
18:02:42 <nick> nick has joined #forms
18:31:56 <CharlieW> CharlieW has joined #forms
18:32:14 <CharlieW> CharlieW has left #forms
18:47:13 <nick> nick has left #forms
18:59:27 <nick> nick has joined #forms
19:29:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #forms