13:03:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xmlsec
13:03:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-xmlsec-irc
13:03:31 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:03:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xmlsec
13:03:33 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be XMLSEC
13:03:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 57 minutes
13:03:34 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: XML Security Specifications Maintenance Working Group Teleconference
13:03:34 <trackbot-ng> Date: 22 January 2008
13:04:16 <tlr> Chair: tlr
13:45:13 <tlr> Regrets: Frederick, Sean, Juan Carlos, Rob
13:45:18 <tlr> Scribe: Hal
13:48:40 <jwray> jwray has joined #xmlsec
13:51:47 <tlr> tlr has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0035.html
13:52:00 <tlr> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0035.html
13:55:53 <pdatta> pdatta has joined #xmlsec
13:58:36 <brich> brich has joined #xmlsec
13:59:08 <Zakim> T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has now started
13:59:13 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
13:59:13 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
13:59:15 <Zakim> + +1.512.401.aaaa
13:59:33 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
13:59:33 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
13:59:34 <Zakim> +Thomas
13:59:51 <tlr> zakim, aaaa is brich
13:59:52 <Zakim> +brich; got it
14:00:19 <Zakim> +Hal_Lockhart
14:00:29 <tlr> zakim, mute thomas
14:00:29 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
14:00:33 <tlr> noise still there, I think
14:00:36 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
14:00:36 <Zakim> sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:00:40 <tlr> zakim, I am thomas
14:00:41 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
14:00:42 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
14:00:42 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
14:00:42 <hal> hal has joined #xmlsec
14:00:48 <tlr> ScribeNick: hal
14:01:01 <brich> zakim, mute me
14:01:01 <Zakim> brich should now be muted
14:01:02 <Zakim> + +1.978.244.aabb
14:01:17 <tlr> zakim, aabb is JohnWray
14:01:17 <Zakim> +JohnWray; got it
14:01:54 <Zakim> + +1.650.506.aacc
14:02:06 <tlr> zakim, aacc is pdatta
14:02:06 <Zakim> +pdatta; got it
14:02:22 <tlr> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see brich (muted), Thomas, Hal_Lockhart, JohnWray, pdatta
14:02:25 <Zakim> +Ed_Simon
14:02:56 <tlr> topic: convene
14:04:06 <tlr> Next meeting: 29 January, John Wray to scribe
14:04:28 <EdSimon> EdSimon has joined #xmlsec
14:04:45 <tlr> tlr: hal, news on WAF?
14:05:01 <tlr> hal: dubious process in their charter in opinion of a number of us, so focused on that point
14:05:05 <brich> zakim, unmute me
14:05:05 <Zakim> brich should no longer be muted
14:05:16 <PHB2> PHB2 has joined #xmlsec
14:05:39 <PHB2> zakim, code?
14:05:39 <Zakim> the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), PHB2
14:06:16 <jwray> jwray has joined #xmlsec
14:06:36 <tlr> tlr: they might move quickly, recommend reviewing soon
14:06:53 <jwray> jwray has joined #xmlsec
14:07:02 <hal> topic: workshop notice
14:07:26 <tlr> hal: agenda for day is 1/2 page, not very mysterious
14:07:29 <Zakim> + +1.781.306.aadd
14:07:41 <tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0033.html
14:07:58 <tlr> hal: they'll convene plenary, come to consensus what problems researchers should work on
14:08:03 <tlr> ... planning to attend security section ...
14:08:58 <tlr> zakim, aadd is phb2
14:08:58 <Zakim> +phb2; got it
14:09:02 <tlr> topic: minutes approval
14:09:10 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2008/01/15-xmlsec-minutes.html
14:09:11 <hal> hal: there will be 4 breakouts - I plan to attend the security section
14:09:25 <EdSimon> Back in 5 minutes...
14:09:30 <tlr> RESOLUTION: minutes accepted as true record
14:09:39 <tlr> Topic: charter proposal
14:09:44 <klanz2> klanz2 has joined #xmlsec
14:09:48 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/wiki/charter
14:09:57 <shivaram> shivaram has joined #xmlsec
14:10:04 <Zakim> + +1.408.907.aaee
14:10:13 <tlr> zakim, aaee is shivaram
14:10:14 <Zakim> +shivaram; got it
14:10:35 <shivaram> zakim, mute shivaram
14:10:35 <Zakim> shivaram should now be muted
14:10:48 <Zakim> +??P19
14:10:55 <tlr> zakim, ??P19 is klanz2
14:10:55 <Zakim> +klanz2; got it
14:12:36 <tlr> hal: would like to see deployment as superset of implementation
14:12:44 <tlr> brich: it's not entirely performance of implementation
14:13:16 <tlr> ... point is that the architecture should enable efficient implementation ...
14:14:01 <tlr> hal: not sure the wording change says that, but liked what bruce just said
14:15:24 <brich> tony's point was that we need to ensure that efficient implementations can be done, in that the architecture and design encourage efficient implementation
14:15:28 <klanz2> also solution space: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eastlake-xmldsig-uri-00#section-2.4.1
14:15:38 <klanz2> Minimal Canonicalization
14:16:51 <hal> In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to performance and efficiency for various deployments.
14:17:52 <tlr> In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to the performance and memory efficiency of implementations. 
14:18:32 <klanz2> q+
14:18:41 <hal>  In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working
14:18:43 <hal>  Group's attention is in particular called to the performance and
14:18:44 <hal>  memory efficiency of implementations.
14:18:53 <klanz2> what is our influence on deployments?
14:19:20 <shivaram> deployment can only be a guideline just like architecture
14:19:45 <tlr> q?
14:19:51 <klanz2> that's best practices isn't it?
14:19:58 <tlr> ack klanz2
14:19:59 <shivaram> yes
14:20:55 <klanz2> q+
14:21:54 <klanz2> new compulsory algorithms and defaults for canonicalization
14:22:06 <klanz2> are consindered
14:22:28 <klanz2> s/consindered/considered/
14:22:56 <tlr> ack klanz2
14:22:58 <shivaram> then qualifying "reasonable implementation" needs  to be addressed
14:23:17 <tlr> Specify one or more canonicalization algorithms to address the requirements agreed. At least one such algorithm should be suitable to replace Canonical XML 1.1 as a mandatory to implement canonicalization method. 
14:24:35 <tlr> In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to performance and efficiency of implementations of the XML security specifications suite, as manifested in various deployments.
14:25:09 <tlr> hal: guess this might meet concern
14:25:34 <tlr> brich: speaking of implementation, not efficiency of deployment
14:26:03 <hal> tlr: hard to understand distinction being made
14:26:27 <klanz2> In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to performance and efficiency as reported by implementations and deployments. 
14:26:44 <hal> not sure Tony's proposed wording addresses his stated concern
14:27:58 <shivaram> agree with Ed's statement just now on the phone
14:28:04 <hal> brirch: not this groups job to examine existing implementations
14:28:26 <shivaram> zakim unmute me
14:28:35 <shivaram> zakim, unmute me
14:28:35 <Zakim> shivaram should no longer be muted
14:28:38 <shivaram> +q
14:28:45 <tlr> s/Ed's/Bruce's/
14:28:57 <klanz2> ack klanz2
14:28:58 <tlr> ack klanz2
14:29:00 <tlr> shivaram, you were agreeing with bruce
14:29:04 <tlr> q- klanz
14:29:23 <hal> klanz2: agree word deployment doesn't add much
14:29:48 <tlr> ack shivaram
14:29:50 <tlr> q+ hal
14:30:26 <hal> shivaram: should not preclude efficiency of implementations
14:30:36 <hal> ... can not rtalk about deployments per se
14:30:59 <tlr> ack hal
14:31:08 <shivaram> zakim, mute me
14:31:08 <Zakim> shivaram should now be muted
14:31:36 <shivaram> The Specification should not preclude efficient implementation. 
14:31:54 <tlr> hal: make it clear that we're specifying algorithms, they will be designed to be implemented efficiently, but we're not going to spend time optimizing current implementations
14:32:18 <klanz2> +1
14:32:27 <tlr> brich: In considering ..., WG's attention is in particular called to algorithmic performance and efficiency.
14:32:48 <tlr> hal: ability of algos to be implemented with good performance and memory footprint
14:33:04 <shivaram> We have no way to understand what kinds of deployment will exist tomorrow.  So, including deployment in the same sentence as perofrmance may be problematic
14:33:41 <klanz2> In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular called to algorithmic and interoperable performance and efficiency potentially leading to refactored or new "MUST Implement Algorithms ". ... I don't know 
14:33:41 <hal> tlr: will go to team for polishing, I am leader 
14:33:58 <hal> ... is brich proposal sufficient for consensus?
14:34:00 <klanz2> forget the last
14:35:07 <hal> tlr: propose taking bruce's words - then polish wording
14:35:45 <klanz2> ok
14:36:28 <tlr> In considering these use cases and requirements, the Working Group's attention is in particular alled to algorithmic performance and efficiency.
14:36:45 <klanz2> s/alled/called/
14:36:53 <hal> +1
14:36:58 <brich> +1
14:37:07 <tlr> PROPOSED: replace current "deployment" text with above
14:37:09 <hal> general agreement
14:37:17 <tlr> RESOLUTION: replace current "deployment" text with above
14:37:42 <tlr> PROPOSED: forward current status of wiki charter to Team for further processing, thereby discharging chartered deliverable
14:37:58 <tlr> RESOLUTION: forward current status of wiki charter to Team for further processing, thereby discharging chartered deliverable
14:38:22 <hal> tlr: will get charter in shape for AC review
14:38:27 <tlr> topic: C14N11 Implementation report and  Test Case document
14:39:00 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmldsig/c14n11/report.html
14:40:06 <hal> tlr: C14N 1.1 should be published by Jan 29
14:40:19 <tlr> Proposed Rec
14:40:37 <tlr> topic: XML Signature implementation report
14:41:00 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmldsig/report.html
14:41:57 <hal> tlr: ibm listed as failed due to mechanical problem - not real problem
14:42:29 <hal> ... any other test cases that should be added?
14:42:31 <tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2008Jan/0034.html
14:43:27 <klanz2> diffRFC
14:43:28 <tlr> diffRFC-* test cases?
14:43:52 <brich> -1
14:43:54 <hal> ... there is a question about diffRFC-* test cases - should they be included?
14:44:00 <klanz2> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-DistinguishedName
14:44:25 <klanz2> q+
14:44:28 <tlr> ack klanz2
14:44:57 <klanz2> q-
14:45:23 <tlr> RESOLUTION: diffRFC test cases not included in implementation report
14:45:58 <klanz2> q+
14:46:05 <tlr> defCan-2, defCan-3
14:46:06 <tlr> ack klanz
14:46:06 <hal> tlr: defCan2 & defCan3 should they be included?
14:46:13 <tlr> ack klanz2
14:46:41 <hal> klanz2: should mention that there have been changes, although it is optional
14:46:57 <hal> .. that it has been tested, but results are not being published
14:47:05 <tlr> zakim, who is making noise?
14:47:18 <Zakim> tlr, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: JohnWray (4%)
14:48:20 <hal> brich: agree with konrad
14:48:36 <tlr> PROPOSED: defCan2, defCan3 optional, tested, detailed results not published
14:48:55 <klanz2> q+
14:49:05 <tlr> ack brich
14:49:22 <hal> klanz2: my proposal was just to mention them and say some impl tested them
14:50:07 <hal> tlr: don't remember how many could do these
14:50:24 <pdatta> q+
14:50:30 <tlr> q- klanz
14:50:41 <tlr> ack pdatta
14:50:57 <tlr> pdatta: don't have templating mechanism, so no defCan tests
14:51:09 <hal> klanz2: don't want to force anyone to reveal
14:51:34 <hal> tlr: propose we leave it open and look at actual results
14:51:51 <hal> ... general direction is not to provide detail on these
14:51:55 <brich> +1
14:52:03 <tlr> ACTION: thomas to propose useful language for defCan tests, no detailed results
14:52:03 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-140 - Propose useful language for defCan tests, no detailed results [on Thomas Roessler - due 2008-01-29].
14:52:09 <tlr> no resolution on this point
14:52:10 <klanz2> I think the statement should be that some had a look at it, but we do not say who
14:53:00 <hal> tlr: any other test cases that should be there?
14:53:07 <hal> no response
14:53:26 <hal> tlr: prteey much done with inventory of test cases
14:53:35 <tlr> topic: best practices
14:53:41 <hal> s/prteey/pretty/
14:53:48 <tlr> tlr: any news?
14:53:48 <tlr> n
14:53:53 <hal> anything new?
14:53:58 <hal> no
14:54:04 <tlr> topic: action item review
14:54:17 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-74
14:54:17 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-74 Update Acknowledgements section in XML SIgnature 2nd edition closed
14:54:25 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-130
14:54:25 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-130 Remove unused DName cases from the doc closed
14:54:34 <tlr> zakim, close ACTION-139
14:54:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close ACTION-139', tlr
14:54:43 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-139
14:54:43 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-139 Fix acknowledgements section closed
14:55:18 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-134
14:55:19 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-134 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed
14:55:32 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-135
14:55:32 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-135 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed
14:55:36 <klanz2> yes
14:55:44 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-136
14:55:45 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-136 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed
14:55:53 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-137
14:55:53 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-137 Confirm whether implementation report for c14n11 can be made public closed
14:56:11 <tlr> trackbot-ng, close ACTION-138
14:56:11 <trackbot-ng> ACTION-138 Send inventory for signature implementation report closed
14:56:35 <tlr> topic: aob
14:56:43 <klanz2> q+
14:56:46 <tlr> ack klanz
14:57:24 <hal> klanz: there is an interop event to be held in March - posted to list
14:57:41 <klanz2> http://www.etsi.org/plugtests/XAdES/XAdES.htm
14:58:04 <klanz2> Registration Deadline is 15 Feb. 2008 ...
14:58:18 <Zakim> -pdatta
14:58:21 <tlr> zakim, list participants
14:58:21 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.512.401.aaaa, Thomas, brich, Hal_Lockhart, +1.978.244.aabb, JohnWray, +1.650.506.aacc, pdatta, Ed_Simon, +1.781.306.aadd, phb2,
14:58:25 <Zakim> ... +1.408.907.aaee, shivaram, klanz2
14:58:26 <Zakim> -brich
14:58:26 <tlr> rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:58:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/22-xmlsec-minutes.html tlr
14:58:28 <Zakim> -Hal_Lockhart
14:58:30 <Zakim> -shivaram
14:58:31 <Zakim> -Ed_Simon
14:58:32 <Zakim> -phb2
14:58:34 <Zakim> -JohnWray
14:58:36 <tlr> rrssagent, make record member
14:58:45 <Zakim> -klanz2
14:58:48 <Zakim> -Thomas
14:58:50 <Zakim> T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has ended
14:58:52 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.512.401.aaaa, Thomas, brich, Hal_Lockhart, +1.978.244.aabb, JohnWray, +1.650.506.aacc, pdatta, Ed_Simon, +1.781.306.aadd, phb2, +1.408.907.aaee, shivaram, klanz2
15:42:42 <PHB2> PHB2 has left #xmlsec