IRC log of sml on 2008-01-17
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 19:01:06 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #sml
- 19:01:06 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/17-sml-irc
- 19:01:13 [johnarwe]
- johnarwe has joined #sml
- 19:01:23 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #sml
- 19:01:29 [Sandy]
- Sandy has joined #sml
- 19:01:38 [jboucher]
- Scribe: Jordan Boucher
- 19:01:45 [jboucher]
- ScribeNick: jboucher
- 19:02:13 [jboucher]
- Meeting: SML Teleconference 2008-01-17
- 19:02:29 [johnarwe]
- zakim, this is sml
- 19:02:32 [Zakim]
- johnarwe, this was already XML_SMLWG()2:00PM
- 19:02:34 [Zakim]
- ok, johnarwe; that matches XML_SMLWG()2:00PM
- 19:02:49 [jboucher]
- Chair: John
- 19:03:08 [johnarwe]
- zakim, aadd is me
- 19:03:08 [Zakim]
- +johnarwe; got it
- 19:03:09 [Valentina]
- zakim, aabb is me
- 19:03:10 [Zakim]
- +Valentina; got it
- 19:03:21 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 19:03:26 [ginny]
- ginny has joined #sml
- 19:03:27 [zulah]
- zulah has joined #sml
- 19:03:27 [kirk]
- zakim, aacc is me
- 19:03:27 [Zakim]
- +kirk; got it
- 19:03:37 [MSM]
- MSM has changed the topic to: SML call 17 January http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Jan/0038.html
- 19:03:40 [Kumar]
- Kumar has joined #sml
- 19:03:46 [MSM]
- zakim, please call MSM-Office
- 19:03:46 [Zakim]
- ok, MSM; the call is being made
- 19:03:47 [Zakim]
- +MSM
- 19:03:48 [jboucher]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 19:03:48 [Zakim]
- +jboucher; got it
- 19:03:55 [Jim]
- Jim has joined #sml
- 19:04:09 [Zakim]
- + +1.610.277.aaee
- 19:04:43 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 19:05:04 [Zakim]
- -??P14
- 19:05:28 [Zakim]
- + +1.530.823.aaff
- 19:05:35 [johnarwe]
- 06zakim, who's on the phone?01
- 19:05:50 [ginny]
- zakim, aaff is me
- 19:05:50 [Zakim]
- +ginny; got it
- 19:06:07 [johnarwe]
- zakim, who's here?
- 19:06:07 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see jboucher, Valentina, kirk, Sandy, johnarwe, [Microsoft], MSM, +1.610.277.aaee, ginny
- 19:06:09 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Jim, Kumar, zulah, ginny, Sandy, Zakim, johnarwe, RRSAgent, kirk, Valentina, jboucher, MSM, trackbot-ng
- 19:06:38 [Kumar]
- zakim, [Microsoft] is me
- 19:06:38 [Zakim]
- +Kumar; got it
- 19:06:49 [Jim]
- zakim, aaee is me
- 19:06:49 [Zakim]
- +Jim; got it
- 19:08:02 [jboucher]
- Topic: roll call
- 19:08:11 [jboucher]
- regrets: Pratul, Zulah (partial)
- 19:08:18 [jboucher]
- Topic: approval of minutes
- 19:08:32 [jboucher]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sml/2008Jan/att-0010/2008-01-03-minutes.htm
- 19:08:56 [jboucher]
- Resolution: minutes approved
- 19:09:07 [jboucher]
- Topic: overdue actions
- 19:10:53 [jboucher]
- only 1 and Pratul is not present
- 19:10:59 [jboucher]
- Topic: Bugs
- 19:12:00 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5368
- 19:12:12 [jboucher]
- Kumar: mark editorial
- 19:13:10 [jboucher]
- Resolution: so marked (by Ginny)
- 19:13:47 [jboucher]
- Valentina: point 2 & 3 are fixed by webmaster, only 1 is editorial now
- 19:13:56 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5379
- 19:14:32 [jboucher]
- John: needs agreement?
- 19:15:25 [jboucher]
- Resolution: so marked, target LC
- 19:17:27 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5380
- 19:18:40 [jboucher]
- Sandy: believes it is editorial
- 19:19:11 [jboucher]
- Resolution: so marked, answer to Sandy's final question is no
- 19:19:22 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5382
- 19:21:34 [pratul]
- pratul has joined #sml
- 19:22:32 [jboucher]
- Kirk: mark editorial
- 19:23:03 [jboucher]
- Resolution: so marked
- 19:23:09 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5383
- 19:23:45 [jboucher]
- Kirk: mark editorial, perhaps revisit for EPR note
- 19:25:50 [jboucher]
- Sandy: perhaps open a separate issue?
- 19:28:06 [jboucher]
- Kirk: will open an issue for the EPR note component
- 19:29:00 [johnarwe]
- Syntactically, the content of a locator can be a documentURI element defined by SML-IF or anything else understood by the consumer. Typically it is a URI, an XLink [XLink], or a Web Services Addressing endpoint reference [WS-Addressing Core].
- 19:29:37 [jboucher]
- Resolution: mark 5383 editorial, open new issue for EPR note
- 19:29:59 [jboucher]
- ... remove the sentence starting with "Typically ..."
- 19:30:07 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5384
- 19:32:29 [jboucher]
- Resolution: mark editorial, remove use of equivalent (and variants thereof)
- 19:32:34 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5386
- 19:34:04 [jboucher]
- Resolution: mark editorial
- 19:34:12 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5387
- 19:36:14 [jboucher]
- Kirk: addressed by content sent by Sandy earlier today
- 19:38:12 [johnarwe]
- The SML URI Scheme can be used in an SML-IF [SML-IF 1.1] document to reference documents from the interchange set.
- 19:39:24 [jboucher]
- Ginny: fixed right after the release of 3rd draft
- 19:39:37 [jboucher]
- Ginny: mark won't fix
- 19:40:02 [jboucher]
- Sandy: suggests duplicate instead
- 19:40:39 [jboucher]
- Resolution: make it so
- 19:40:43 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5388
- 19:40:49 [jboucher]
- Kirk: oh boy!
- 19:41:05 [jboucher]
- Kirk: mark needs review
- 19:42:04 [jboucher]
- Kirk: feels reference is overloaded and should be defined more clearly
- 19:44:58 [jboucher]
- John: check use of reference used on its own and qualify them
- 19:45:27 [jboucher]
- John: define SML reference and SML reference scheme
- 19:46:04 [jboucher]
- Kirk: distinguish use of scheme carefully as well, wrt. xpointer scheme
- 19:48:27 [jboucher]
- John: search and qualify use of scheme, in addition to reference
- 19:48:54 [ginny]
- Resolution:
- 19:48:55 [ginny]
- Define 2 terms - SML Reference (currently "Reference" in the terminology section) and SML Reference scheme (definition should indicate that it is different from xpath schemes)
- 19:48:57 [ginny]
- Review all uses of unqualified "reference" and fix if necessary. Also review uses of "scheme".
- 19:48:58 [jboucher]
- Resolution: mark needs review, proposal is as discussed above
- 19:49:45 [ginny]
- s/xpath/xpointer/
- 19:50:14 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5389
- 19:50:36 [jboucher]
- Valentia: mark editorial
- 19:50:50 [jboucher]
- Resolution: so marked
- 19:51:28 [jboucher]
- Topic: Needs Review Bugs
- 19:51:34 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4687
- 19:53:01 [jboucher]
- John: has everyone had time? any objections to marking fixed?
- 19:53:05 [jboucher]
- Resolution: so marked
- 19:54:06 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4774
- 19:54:45 [jboucher]
- John: has everyone had time to review? any objections to marking fixed?
- 19:54:56 [jboucher]
- Resolution: so marked
- 19:55:06 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4992
- 19:55:51 [jboucher]
- Ginny: reviewed Sandy's suggestions and agrees
- 19:56:33 [jboucher]
- John: Kirk to add a link to comments in email
- 19:57:19 [jboucher]
- John: has everyone had time to review? any objections to marking fixed?
- 19:57:51 [jboucher]
- s/fixed/editorial/
- 19:58:19 [jboucher]
- Resolution: mark as editorial
- 19:58:49 [jboucher]
- Topic: Needs Agreement Bugs
- 19:59:04 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5298
- 19:59:57 [jboucher]
- Sandy: target is CR, so skip
- 20:00:06 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5396
- 20:02:07 [jboucher]
- scratch 5396, it does not exist
- 20:02:12 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5306
- 20:14:17 [johnarwe]
- Kirk, Kumar: discussion of possibly reducing scope down to schema complete and versoin
- 20:14:48 [johnarwe]
- MSM: usefulness of version as a data-stamp, for debug, etc, but not for constraining consumers
- 20:15:35 [johnarwe]
- ...i.e. consumers must be required to proceed in the face of unknown versions, if (in a practical sense) you want to be able to deploy future versions.
- 20:20:44 [johnarwe]
- ...MSM strongly recommends using version numbers. eg a 1.0 consumer, receiving a 2.0 document, still must attempt to process the 2.0 document (as a 1.0 document with some unknown extensions). Since 1.0 consumers are not allowed to just fail based on the version number, a disincentive to deploying 2.0 producers is absent.
- 20:21:25 [johnarwe]
- ... If the 2.0 format also happens to be 1.0-compliant, works fine.
- 20:26:07 [jboucher]
- John: Kirk to rev proposal per scope discussed above
- 20:26:33 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5341
- 20:26:51 [jboucher]
- Sandy: also a CR target
- 20:27:13 [jboucher]
- ... skip it
- 20:27:20 [jboucher]
- http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5379
- 20:28:11 [jboucher]
- MSM: my analysis has not progressed since last week, some by F2F next week
- 20:28:59 [jboucher]
- Kumar: some idea of where you are going?
- 20:30:42 [jboucher]
- MSM: yes, leaning towards all constraints on types and elements (and lots more summary stated on phone)
- 20:39:04 [jboucher]
- Kumar: what is the value of allowing constraints on both types and elements?
- 20:42:07 [jboucher]
- MSM: a reason is to allow acyclic and target* to defined in the same places
- 20:44:04 [jboucher]
- ... a 2nd reason is wrt language design choices/patterns
- 20:45:38 [jboucher]
- Ginny: I totally agree with MSM
- 20:50:00 [jboucher]
- ... 1) prefer working in types, 2) require good reasons for restrictions, 3) support consistency
- 20:51:55 [jboucher]
- Sandy: certain constraints make sense on elements but not types, XML schema examples support this pattern
- 20:54:25 [jboucher]
- John: points out design perspectives may have varied on decision points
- 20:54:49 [jboucher]
- ... why do it this way? vs. why not do it this way?
- 20:55:38 [jboucher]
- ... what use case supports the decision? or, contradicts it?
- 20:56:24 [jboucher]
- Ginny: acyclic was discussed for weeks and determined to be needed on types
- 20:59:24 [Jim]
- have to leave now.
- 20:59:27 [jboucher]
- Kumar: suggests impact to existing models is too great to allow target* on types
- 21:00:23 [Zakim]
- -Jim
- 21:00:30 [jboucher]
- MSM: suggests taking some further discussion into an email thread
- 21:01:16 [Zakim]
- -Kumar
- 21:01:18 [jboucher]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 21:01:33 [jboucher]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 21:01:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/17-sml-minutes.html jboucher
- 21:02:16 [Zakim]
- -kirk
- 21:02:40 [Zakim]
- -Sandy
- 21:03:04 [Zakim]
- -ginny
- 21:03:06 [Zakim]
- -Valentina
- 21:03:08 [Zakim]
- -jboucher
- 21:03:09 [Zakim]
- -johnarwe
- 21:03:14 [Zakim]
- -MSM
- 21:03:15 [Zakim]
- XML_SMLWG()2:00PM has ended
- 21:03:17 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.303.495.aaaa, +1.905.413.aabb, +1.603.823.aacc, Sandy, +1.845.433.aadd, johnarwe, Valentina, kirk, MSM, jboucher, +1.610.277.aaee, +1.530.823.aaff, ginny, Kumar,
- 21:03:19 [Zakim]
- ... Jim
- 21:03:21 [ginny]
- /quit
- 21:03:33 [jboucher]
- rrsagent, bye
- 21:03:33 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items