13:48:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:48:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/09-xhtml-irc
13:48:30 <Roland> Zakim, list
13:48:30 <Zakim> I see WAI_ERTWG()8:30AM, Team_(rifc)13:03Z, Team_W3M()8:00AM active
13:48:32 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is IA_XHTML2()9:00AM
13:48:50 <Roland> Zakim, this is XHTML2
13:48:50 <Zakim> Roland, I see IA_XHTML2()9:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be XHTML2".
13:49:11 <Roland> Zakim, this will be XHTML2
13:49:11 <Zakim> ok, Roland; I see IA_XHTML2()9:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
13:52:28 <Roland> Meeting: XHTML WG
13:52:57 <RolandM> Meeting: XHTML WG
13:53:30 <Roland> Chair: Roland Merrick
13:54:36 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0003.html
13:56:59 <RolandM> RolandM has changed the topic to: XHTML2 WG - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0003.html
13:58:51 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:00AM has now started
13:58:58 <Zakim> +Roland
14:01:48 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:01:48 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:01:50 <Zakim> -Roland
14:01:51 <Zakim> +Roland
14:01:52 <Zakim> +Steven
14:02:10 <Steven> zakim, drop steven
14:02:10 <Zakim> Steven is being disconnected
14:02:11 <Zakim> -Steven
14:02:26 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:02:26 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:02:27 <Zakim> +Steven
14:02:43 <Zakim> +ShaneM
14:03:02 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:03:28 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #xhtml
14:03:40 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
14:03:40 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
14:04:30 <Zakim> + +20876aaaa
14:04:38 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am aaaa
14:04:38 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
14:04:50 <Zakim> +??P16
14:05:16 <Steven> zakim, ??P16 is Yam
14:05:16 <Zakim> +Yam; got it
14:05:24 <yamx> yamx has joined #xhtml
14:05:40 <Roland> Regrets: Rich, Tina, Gregory
14:06:08 <yamx> I joined, but I joind IRC after my call, so, I don't know how to identify me.
14:06:28 <Steven> zakim, yam is yamx
14:06:28 <Zakim> +yamx; got it
14:07:59 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
14:08:14 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jan/0003
14:08:20 <Steven> Topic: Announcements
14:08:28 <Roland> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-access/
14:08:33 <Steven> Roland: THe Access module went to FPWD recently
14:08:40 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
14:08:57 <Steven> Roland: We have had a request to look at the selectors API
14:09:01 <Steven> ... and would like comments
14:09:05 <Steven> ... any takers?
14:10:03 <Steven> Steven: I'm OK with looking at it, but I would think that Mark would be a good candidate
14:10:11 <Steven> Yam: Is it like CSS elements?
14:10:26 <Steven> Mark: Yes, a way of selecting elements programmatically
14:10:45 <Steven> Mark: OK, I'll take a look
14:11:12 <Steven> ACTION: Steven and Mark to review selectors API by 31 Jan 2008
14:11:23 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-api/
14:11:43 <Steven> Steven: Oh, it's a last call
14:11:54 <Steven> ... so it;s a last call review
14:12:00 <Steven> s/it;s/it's/
14:14:25 <Steven> Steven: While we're talking announcements, Yahoo announced that they are using XForms for their mobile widgets
14:14:51 <Steven> Roland: It can lead to a discussion about namespaces for us
14:15:00 <Steven> Topic: Testing XHTML Basic 1.1
14:15:08 <Steven> Roland: Yam, what is the status?
14:15:44 <Steven> Yam: Before I contacted our technical team, Steven mentioned that there was an implementation of inputmode somewhere?
14:15:54 <Steven> Steven: Did I? I don't remember
14:16:25 <Steven> Shane: Yes, it was Openwave, but I haven't been able to contact anyone there
14:16:39 <Steven> Yam: Openwave have supplied their browser to [someone]
14:17:07 <Steven> ... Roland: So we need an implementation of inputmode
14:17:18 <Steven> Yam: But I assume we need two implementations
14:17:19 <krijnh> krijnh has joined #xhtml
14:18:02 <Steven> Steven: Well, since it is an optional feature, we only need one working implementation, and show it works correctly
14:18:16 <Steven> ... we don't need two implementations
14:18:56 <Steven> Yam: I have provided the test report of our implementation
14:20:09 <Steven> Steven: So we need to create a test report that summarises the test results, shows we have achieved our exit criteria, ans request PR transition
14:20:32 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to bring test results of XHTML Basic 1.1 together 
14:21:06 <Steven> Roland: What is holding us up with Modularization?
14:24:08 <Steven> Steven: Well, there is some problem with a zero-length CR period, so I propose we request CR, and then talk about the length of CR during the call. I would like Roland and Shane to be on the call
14:24:17 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to organsie CR call for M12N
14:24:37 <Steven> s/nsie/nise/
14:24:42 <ShaneM> XHTML 1.1 Second Edition is dependent on it. 
14:24:50 <Steven> Topic: ARIA
14:25:04 <Steven> Roland: we'll skip this until Rich is able to be here
14:25:14 <Steven> Topic: RDFa on html element
14:26:43 <Steven> Shane: The current DTD doesn't allow the RDFa attributes on the html element
14:27:06 <Steven> Steven: I would strongly support such an addition
14:27:12 <Steven> Roland: Which DTD?
14:27:26 <Steven> Steven: The XHTML 1.1+RDFa
14:28:14 <Steven> Shane: But this change is not in M12N 2e
14:28:23 <Steven> ... such as class and id on the html element
14:28:46 <Steven> ... and it is now too late to add it, siunce we are past last call
14:28:50 <Steven> s/2e/1.1/
14:29:12 <Steven> Shane: Do we really need it for RDFa?
14:29:21 <Steven> s/Shane/Mark/
14:29:57 <Steven> Steven: @about on the root element
14:30:10 <Steven> Shane: Oh wait, the prose says that id should be on the root
14:30:35 <Steven> ... so I can fix that, it is an error in the implementation
14:30:56 <Steven> ... and by the way, head doesn't take class either
14:31:07 <Steven> Steven: Aren't they in the same collections?
14:31:19 <Steven> Shane: Yes, but we don't use them on head and html
14:32:08 <Steven> ... we use the id attribute directly
14:32:17 <Steven> ... I will update the implementation right now
14:32:31 <Steven> ... and make the changes in XHTML 1.1+RDFa
14:33:08 <Steven> Roland: So we are happy with this change?
14:33:12 <Steven> Steven: Yes
14:33:49 <Steven> Topic: Taking CURIEs to last call
14:34:16 <Steven> Steven: Not enough people to vote on it today
14:35:14 <Steven> ACTION: Steven create a questionnaire to take CURIEs to last call
14:35:33 <Steven> Roland: Make it twp weeks for voting
14:35:39 <Steven> s/twp/two/
14:35:55 <Steven> Topic: Legacy module
14:36:25 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Aug/0009
14:36:45 <Steven> Shane: I suggested moving h1-6 into the legacy module for XHTML2
14:36:58 <Steven> ... and then peiople started asking about the legacy module
14:37:57 <Roland> s/peiople/people/
14:38:05 <Steven> Steven: It's a sort of hotchpotch
14:38:19 <Steven> Roland: We should clean it up and treat it seriously for M12N 2
14:39:39 <Steven> Steven: It might be a set of legacy modules, not just one
14:40:12 <Steven> ... since someone might want to use h1-6 but not applet
14:40:33 <Steven> SHane: THen let's not call it 'legacy' module, but give it a name and mark it deprecated
14:40:35 <Steven> Steven: Good
14:40:40 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
14:40:45 <Steven> s/SH/Sh/
14:41:16 <Steven> Steven: Dates for FtF?
14:41:23 <Steven> Roland: Feb 18-20
14:41:51 <Steven> Steven: Feb 19 is my birthday, so we'll have to party that evening!
14:42:02 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to create FtF page
14:42:25 <Steven> Topic: Fix missing elements in M12N
14:42:33 <Steven> Shane: I was wrong, that is fine
14:42:48 <Steven> Topic: add inputmode to XHTML 1.1 2e
14:43:00 <Steven> Steven: Sound like a good idea
14:43:08 <Steven> s/ound/ounds/
14:43:21 <Steven> Steven: Mostly harmless
14:43:28 <Steven> Shane: Not sure how we do it editorially
14:43:46 <Steven> ... since inputmode is a module in Basic 1.1
14:44:09 <Steven> Steven: It's not in M12N 1.1?
14:44:13 <Steven> Shane: Of course not
14:44:48 <Steven> Steven: That would mean we have inputmode in three places
14:45:10 <Steven> Shane: It's not a problem to reference the module in Basic
14:45:16 <Steven> Steven: OK, then let's do that
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14:47:18 <Steven> Roland: Is there value to making a separate document?
14:47:50 <Steven> Steven: We have three languages that uses it now, so there is a vbalue, but it is not hard to reference it from the Basic spec
14:47:55 <Steven> Shane: Is it in XHTML2
14:48:04 <Steven> Steven: Yes, as part of XForms
14:48:11 <Steven> Roalnd: Which namespace?
14:48:18 <Steven> Steven: Not yet resolved by us
14:48:35 <Steven> s/Roal/Rola/
14:49:04 <Steven> Steven: Action?
14:49:08 <Steven> Roland: It is already there
14:49:39 <Roland> Existing action on Shane to add to XHTML 1.1 SE : http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-xhtml-minutes.html#action01
14:50:15 <Steven> Topic: CURIE issues - datatype etc
14:50:30 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2007Mar/0038.html 
14:51:42 <Steven> Roland: What is the value space od CURIE?
14:51:46 <Steven> Steven: URI
14:51:53 <Steven> s/od/of/
14:52:40 <Steven> Shane: Disagree
14:53:18 <Steven> Mark: If you compared x;a and y:a and x and y were the same mappings, would they be equal or not?
14:53:29 <Steven> Shane: I think they are not equal
14:53:40 <Steven> Steven: I think they should be equal
14:53:58 <Steven> s/x;a/x:a/
14:54:19 <Steven> Shane: I don't think they are compact URIs but scoped names
14:54:53 <Steven> Mark: In sparql for instance they are compact URIs
14:55:21 <Steven> Present+Christina
14:55:27 <Steven> Chair: Roland
14:56:31 <markbirbeck> Mark: They *must* be expanded.
14:57:58 <Steven> Shane: When looking something up you get it from the DOM and look it up as prefix+extension
14:58:23 <Steven> Mark: I disagree, you must expand it, because for instance ARIA uses the RDF processing
14:58:33 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/09-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
14:59:08 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
15:00:18 <Steven> Shane: Today if I use IE 7, a CURIE doesn't get expanded
15:00:32 <Steven> Mark: That's an implementation issue
15:01:18 <Steven> ... so doesn't affect the answer to the question "what is the value space of a CURIE"
15:01:52 <Steven> Shane: If I say "get elements by role name" what should I use?
15:02:06 <Steven> Mark: It should be the expanded name
15:03:10 <Steven> ... it is not enough to search for "x:a"
15:03:22 <Steven> Steven: Since you don't know what prefixes people have used
15:04:38 <Steven> ... if someone produces a script library, they won't know which prefixes you have used
15:05:01 <Steven>  Mark: You are searching for a full URI
15:05:06 <Steven> Roland: We are over time
15:05:13 <Steven> ... let's try and resolve it via email
15:05:19 <Steven> ... who will start the thread
15:05:26 <Steven> s/thread/thread?/
15:05:38 <Steven> SHane: Everyone seems to disagree with me, so I think we are done
15:05:44 <Steven> ... the value space is a URI
15:05:47 <Steven> s/SH
15:06:04 <Steven> RESOLVED: the value space of a CURIE is URI
15:07:04 <Steven> ACTION: Mark to reply to value space of CURIE email
15:07:13 <Steven> Shane: is it IRI or URI?
15:07:37 <Steven> Steven: URI I think, since I believe that IRI is a lexical dataspace, whose vlaue space is URI
15:07:46 <Steven> s/vla/val/
15:08:03 <Steven> Mark: Looking at the mail, it looks like we have to discuss further
15:08:49 <Steven> Roland: We should look at the other iussues so we can go to last call
15:09:10 <Steven> ... so we can't decide to go to last call yet
15:09:16 <Steven> s/iuss/iss/
15:09:25 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:09:30 <Zakim> -Roland
15:09:47 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
15:09:48 <ShaneM>  I think that there might be some value in preserving the expanded prefix separate from the reference in the CURIE value space
15:09:49 <Zakim> -Steven
15:09:51 <Zakim> -yamx
15:09:52 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:00AM has ended
15:09:53 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, Steven, ShaneM, +20876aaaa, markbirbeck, yamx
15:10:09 <ShaneM>  it would make it easier to search for, for example, all elements that have a role in a specific value space
15:10:48 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:10:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/09-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:11:05 <markbirbeck> Mark: Ah...the original question points to an answer that is somewhere in between Shane's view and Mark/Steven's view. Peter Johnston says that if CURIEs are to be a superset of QNames then the two parts (prefix and suffix) must be preserved.
15:11:44 <ShaneM>  as you say Mark, implementation detail.  But I can see some value in it
15:11:50 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public
15:12:01 <Steven> That's what QNames do, but QNames have a tighter syntax than CURIES
15:12:23 <Roland> rrsagent, publish minutes
15:12:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/09-xhtml-minutes.html Roland
15:12:25 <Steven> You are allowed to split a CURIE in different places and stiull have the same value
15:12:46 <markbirbeck> Interesting idea Shane...do you think we should support @accessrole="wai:*"? :)
15:13:00 <markbirbeck> (Your previous point......)
15:13:36 <markbirbeck> Steven--comparison would still require combining the two parts.
15:13:43 <Steven> s/SHane/Shane/G
15:14:05 <ShaneM>  technically speaking, a CURIE prefix could be "" and the reference could be a complete URI.  Not sure what that means tho.
15:14:59 <ShaneM>  Actually, given that a prefix can be anything preserving it has little value.  It is only a complete URI *or* the original unexpanded value that will be meaningful for any processor imho.  portably anyway.
16:26:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #xhtml
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16:42:18 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:42:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/09-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
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