13:28:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tsdtf
13:28:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc
13:28:25 <Christophe> Zakim, conferences?
13:28:25 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Christophe.
13:28:41 <Christophe> Zakim, this will be TSDTF
13:28:41 <Zakim> ok, Christophe; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:28:52 <Christophe> Meeting: TSD TF
13:29:28 <Christophe> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Jan/0000.html
13:29:42 <Christophe> Chair: Christophe
13:29:46 <Christophe> Regrets: CarlosV
13:30:21 <Christophe> Agenda+ Announcements, etc.
13:30:47 <Christophe> Agenda+  Reviewing test samples for previous working draft
13:30:56 <Christophe> Agenda+ Test suite ID in metadata
13:31:05 <Christophe> Agenda+ Discussion: rule/@primary and testCase/@complexity
13:31:18 <Christophe> Agenda+ Review of action items
13:31:41 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #tsdtf
13:32:28 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started
13:32:30 <Zakim> +Cooper
13:32:59 <CarlosI> CarlosI has joined #tsdtf
13:33:07 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:33:44 <Zakim> + +32163aaaa
13:34:08 <Christophe> zakim, +32 is ChristopheStrobbe
13:34:08 <Zakim> +ChristopheStrobbe; got it
13:35:36 <Zakim> +Carlos_Iglesias
13:35:39 <shadi> scribe: Shadi
13:35:49 <shadi> topics?
13:35:52 <shadi> agenda?
13:37:08 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
13:37:08 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Announcements, etc." taken up [from Christophe]
13:37:25 <shadi> CS: Happy New Year! :)
13:37:41 <shadi> CS: had BenToWeb review in mid-december, it went quite well
13:37:59 <shadi> ...still need to do a few things but more or less closed
13:38:10 <shadi> ...still figuring out the future of this work
13:39:07 <shadi> SAZ: all test cases on the W3C servers?
13:39:17 <shadi> CS: no, not yet all
13:40:59 <shadi> SAZ: not a top priority to transition them fast, we already have a lot of unreviewed ones
13:41:30 <shadi> MC: tests are becoming ever more important, may be a good time to bring back to the WG group now
13:42:33 <shadi> ...might be good to send a formal mail to the WG, and maybe try to get a slot on the Thrusday call
13:43:35 <shadi> SAZ: WG doing planning now or after the review period ends?
13:44:28 <shadi> MC: doing planning now, just in case
13:46:37 <shadi> action: CS send email to the WCAG WG explaining the status of the tests, and ask for a speaking slot at the upcoming Thursday call
13:47:24 <shadi> CS: side note, at least 300 more test cases from BenToWeb in the queue
13:49:59 <shadi> CI: we will talk internally in CTIC about future plans
13:50:18 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:50:18 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Reviewing test samples for previous working draft" taken up [from Christophe]
13:50:46 <shadi> CS: several action items were set, but haven't seen follow-up
13:50:56 <shadi> ...seems nothing changed
13:52:13 <shadi> action: CS send out reminder to the people with due action items, pointing them to the outstanding work and asking them for dates by which they can deliver
13:52:22 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:52:22 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Test suite ID in metadata" taken up [from Christophe]
13:52:34 <Christophe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2007Dec/0000.html
13:53:25 <shadi> CS: nothing in the metadata telling us which test suite a test belongs to
13:53:49 <shadi> ...would be useful, also to filter out old/unused tests etc
13:54:51 <shadi> SAZ: is that different to the naming convention discussion that is still open?
13:55:45 <shadi> ...to make the ID more stable
13:55:46 <shadi> CS: it relates as both impact the naming convention
13:57:59 <shadi> SAZ: if we will reopen the ID/naming/tagging discusion then we may want to take a step back and collect all outstanding issues
14:00:56 <shadi> MC: agree with the overall thought, should minimize the refactoring work
14:01:19 <shadi> ...not interested in how the IDs look like, they just need to work
14:03:28 <shadi> SAZ: not so much about making the IDs more pretty, but if we have to touch them anyway then we should consider all aspects first
14:06:01 <shadi> action: MC to have a fresh look at the ID/naming and linking/referencing of tests (especially linkage to techniques, stability, etc)
14:06:47 <shadi> action: CS send summary of the ID/naming/referencing mechanism of the tests, and collect the open issues (or previously discussed issues that were not ideally resolved)
14:07:50 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:07:50 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Discussion: rule/@primary and testCase/@complexity" taken up [from Christophe]
14:08:05 <Christophe> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2008Jan/0001.html
14:09:18 <shadi> CS: discussion allowing non primary rules vs just one single rule per test
14:11:20 <shadi>   A - Allowing just one primary rule and several other informational ones
14:13:54 <shadi> CI: most of the tests so far seem to only have 1 rule anyway
14:14:16 <shadi> ...allowing multiple rule makes reviewing more difficult and complex
14:14:36 <shadi> ...we should keep it simple and just use what we need
14:15:23 <shadi> CS: we may have not added such information but that doesn't mean it isn't useful
14:16:13 <shadi> CI: we should focus on what we need, and simplify the process
14:16:27 <shadi> ...don't see any impact on the quality of the samples
14:23:02 <shadi> SAZ: my understanding is that the check for the proper use of the primary/compelxity attributes can be automated, and therefore it doesn't add too much reviewing overhead
14:23:27 <shadi> ...agree that we should keep it simple, but shouldn't disallow something that we may later need
14:23:56 <shadi> ...WCAG 2.0 has a lot of cross-references or relationships between different SC, especially at different Levels
14:24:12 <shadi> ...we may want to reflect this at some stage, so this feature may become handy
14:25:53 <shadi> CI: exactly one primary rule, and 0 or more information ones?
14:26:05 <shadi> SAZ: yes
14:27:24 <shadi> CI: and other metadata such as expertGuidance only refer to the primary rule or to which rule exactly?
14:27:52 <shadi> CS: don't see this as a real issue
14:29:48 <shadi> SAZ: are there concrete examples?
14:30:14 <shadi> CI: take color contrast SCs which are in two different levels
14:31:28 <shadi> CS: good example, it fails Level 3 and passes Level 2
14:31:47 <shadi> CI: then they are both primary, why is one informational?
14:36:18 <shadi> action: CS send concrete examples of tests that make use of the primary/complexity attributes
14:37:17 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:37:19 <Zakim> -Cooper
14:37:19 <Zakim> -ChristopheStrobbe
14:37:29 <Zakim> -Carlos_Iglesias
14:37:30 <Zakim> WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended
14:37:31 <Zakim> Attendees were Cooper, Shadi, +32163aaaa, ChristopheStrobbe, Carlos_Iglesias
14:38:42 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:38:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tsdtf
14:38:48 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:38:53 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi
14:38:54 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:38:58 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
14:38:58 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-actions.rdf :
14:38:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CS send email to the WCAG WG explaining the status of the tests, and ask for a speaking slot at the upcoming Thursday call [1]
14:38:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T13-46-37
14:38:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CS send out reminder to the people with due action items, pointing them to the outstanding work and asking them for dates by which they can deliver [2]
14:38:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T13-52-13
14:38:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MC to have a fresh look at the ID/naming and linking/referencing of tests (especially linkage to techniques, stability, etc) [3]
14:38:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-06-01
14:38:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CS send summary of the ID/naming/referencing mechanism of the tests, and collect the open issues (or previously discussed issues that were not ideally resolved) [4]
14:38:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-06-47
14:38:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CS send concrete examples of tests that make use of the primary/complexity attributes [5]
14:38:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-tsdtf-irc#T14-36-18