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17:47:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #owl
17:47:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc
17:48:04 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public
17:49:01 <clu> clu has joined #owl
17:52:03 <bijan> bijan has joined #owl
17:52:51 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
17:52:58 <Zakim> +??P5
17:53:03 <bijan> zakim, ??p5 is me
17:53:03 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
17:55:40 <Achille> Achille has joined #owl
17:56:31 <Zakim> + +1.914.421.aaaa
17:56:54 <Achille> Zakim, + +1.914.421.aaaa is me
17:56:54 <Zakim> I don't understand '+ +1.914.421.aaaa is me', Achille
17:57:17 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:57:17 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:57:19 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Achille 
17:57:20 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
17:57:26 <Zakim> +??P7
17:57:27 <bijan> Or a kid :)
17:57:30 <Achille> sorry
17:57:33 <bijan> No no!
17:57:36 <bijan> I like kids
17:57:39 <Achille> Zakim, mute me
17:57:39 <Zakim> Achille should now be muted
17:57:53 <Zakim> +Sandro
17:58:19 <bmotik> bmotik has joined #owl
17:58:27 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
17:58:50 <Zakim> +??P2
17:58:53 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P2 is me
17:58:53 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
17:58:55 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
17:58:56 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
17:59:49 <pfps> pfps has joined #owl
18:00:04 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
18:00:19 <pfps> Scribe pfps
18:00:26 <MarkusK_> MarkusK_ has joined #owl
18:00:28 <Zakim> + +0494212186aabb
18:00:34 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc
18:00:35 <clu> zakim, aabb is me
18:00:36 <Zakim> +clu; got it
18:00:41 <clu> zakim, mute me
18:00:41 <Zakim> clu should now be muted
18:00:43 <baojie> Zakim, aacc is baojie
18:00:43 <Zakim> +baojie; got it
18:00:46 <Zakim> -??P7
18:01:13 <pfps> ScribeNick: pfps
18:01:15 <sandro> Christine calls in to give regrets, as there is suddenly no electricity where she is.
18:01:23 <Zakim> +??P7
18:01:26 <pfps> RRSAgent, make records public
18:01:35 <sandro> she asks us to postpone discussion of the UFD.
18:01:36 <pfps> Zakim, this will be owlwg
18:01:36 <Zakim> ok, pfps; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start now
18:01:38 <Zhe> Zhe has joined #owl
18:01:42 <msmith> msmith has joined #owl
18:02:08 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #owl
18:03:18 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:03:18 <Zakim> I notice SW_OWL()1:00PM has restarted
18:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, +1.202.408.aadd
18:03:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaee
18:03:44 <uli> uli has joined #owl
18:03:52 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aaee is me
18:03:52 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
18:03:58 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
18:04:01 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
18:04:07 <pfps> topic: agenda amendments
18:04:14 <bcuencagrau> bcuencagrau has joined #owl
18:04:16 <sandro> PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (3 December)
18:04:22 <pfps> the minutes looked OK to me
18:04:39 <sandro> RESOLVED Accept Previous Minutes (3 December)
18:04:46 <pfps> topic: Action Item Status
18:04:53 <Zakim> +??P11
18:04:59 <uli> zakim, ??P11 is me
18:05:00 <bmotik> That has been done
18:05:03 <Zakim> +uli; got it
18:05:04 <sandro> action-251 done
18:05:05 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:05:10 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:05:11 <sandro> action-251?
18:05:11 <trackbot> ACTION-251 -- Boris Motik to update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed -- due 2008-11-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:05:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/251
18:05:28 <schneid> schneid has joined #owl
18:05:30 <uli> zkim, mute me
18:05:33 <pfps> I think that that one was done quite some time ago
18:05:35 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:05:35 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:05:43 <sandro> action-251 closed
18:05:43 <trackbot> ACTION-251 Update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed closed
18:05:45 <pfps> sandro: any feedback needed
18:05:48 <pfps> boris: nope
18:05:50 <Zakim> + +0122427aaff
18:05:54 <sandro> action-254 closed
18:05:54 <trackbot> ACTION-254 Create missing grammars in the documents closed
18:05:57 <JeffP> zakim, aaff is me
18:05:57 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it
18:06:06 <sandro> action-256 closed
18:06:06 <trackbot> ACTION-256 Set up telecon time poll for rif/owl joint coordination one-time meeting closed
18:06:09 <Zakim> +??P14
18:06:19 <schneid> zakim, ??P14 is me
18:06:19 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
18:06:22 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:06:22 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:06:23 <bijan> Do we need to discuss it?
18:06:52 <pfps> RIF meeting discussion is later in the agenda
18:06:56 <sandro> action-257 closed
18:06:56 <trackbot> ACTION-257 Set up WBS poll for F2F times closed
18:07:12 <sandro> action-252?
18:07:12 <trackbot> ACTION-252 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to checking progress of XML Schema 1.1 and datetime datatype -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN
18:07:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/252
18:07:32 <pfps> pfps: I'm waiting for XML Schema WG to get back to us
18:07:41 <pfps> sandro: Any particular deadline
18:07:56 <pfps> pfps: The sooner the better, but we need it before end of Last Call
18:07:56 <sandro> action-250?
18:07:56 <trackbot> ACTION-250 -- Sandro Hawke to send mime-type registrations in to IETF when we do last-call publications -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN
18:07:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/250
18:08:17 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Round_4#Publicity
18:08:36 <pfps> Topic: announcing last call
18:08:43 <pfps> sandro: some has been done
18:08:53 <bijan> http://clarkparsia.com/weblog/2008/12/03/owl-2-last-call-documents-published/
18:08:57 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:08:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik, Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe (muted), uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted)
18:08:59 <pfps> sandro: do some announcement (and add to wiki page)
18:09:26 <pfps> sandro: going around the "room" 
18:09:30 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me
18:09:30 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted
18:09:32 <pfps> sandro: bijan? 
18:09:34 <bijan> I'm harrasing people
18:09:36 <uli> I checked and compared my 'candidates', but Ian had already done them
18:09:44 <Zakim> +??P15
18:09:45 <MarkusK_> I have put a small notice at semanticweb.org
18:09:47 <pfps> sandro: achille?
18:09:48 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P15 is me
18:09:48 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
18:09:54 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
18:09:54 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
18:09:57 <pfps> pfps: same as uli 
18:10:00 <Achille> i prefer typing
18:10:08 <Achille> my baby is unhappy
18:10:15 <MarkusK_> s /semanticweb.org/the main page of semanticweb.org/
18:10:19 <bijan> HCLS list?
18:10:28 <bijan> Yes :(
18:10:30 <pfps> sandro: I owe a blog post about this
18:10:38 <Achille> I'll send note in ibm internal mailing lists
18:10:46 <pfps> sandro: bijan - please put up on HCLS
18:11:05 <bijan> Oh, we'll be doing internal review here
18:11:06 <pfps> pfps:  same as uli - my suspects have been handled
18:11:07 <Achille> and in a talk i will give at Bolzen-Bolzano free university next week
18:11:22 <bijan> I.e., having people inside manchester review all the documents carefully
18:11:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:11:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:11:28 <pfps> sandro: please publicize
18:11:29 <Zhe> I have sent the notice to Oracle's internal list
18:11:38 <pfps> topic: F2F5
18:11:56 <pfps> sandro: no decision today (no Alan, no Ian)
18:12:09 <pfps> sandro: does anyone want to answer the poll?
18:12:16 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/41712/f2f5date/results
18:12:52 <pfps> sandro: results are close - lead is Mar 3-4
18:13:00 <pfps> sandro: probably chairs will decide
18:13:05 <pfps> topic: LC comments
18:13:11 <pfps> sandro: none yet
18:13:21 <pfps> sandro: Ian has a page for coordination
18:13:43 <pfps> sandro: if there are not too many comments we'll just use this wiki page
18:13:48 <msmith> q+
18:13:48 <pfps> topic: test cases
18:13:54 <MarkusK_> q+
18:13:58 <dlm> dlm has joined #owl
18:14:04 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Queue
18:14:18 <pfps> msmith: there are some test cases in proper format
18:14:41 <pfps> msmith: email asking for people to check them out was just sent
18:14:50 <pfps> msmith: could be approved next week
18:15:01 <MarkusK_> q+ to report on test case licensing issues
18:15:14 <pfps> msmith: results for Pellet and Hermit are included
18:15:29 <pfps> sandro: plan for gathering test results where others drive?
18:15:41 <pfps> msmith: still needs to be ironed out
18:16:00 <pfps> msmith: oracle has some suggestions
18:16:16 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aagg
18:16:27 <sandro> ack MarkusK_ 
18:16:27 <Zakim> MarkusK_, you wanted to report on test case licensing issues
18:16:31 <pfps> sandro: Webont had a way of incorporating external results
18:16:35 <sandro> ack msmith 
18:17:24 <pfps> markus: only issue is that publicly contributed test cases need a release to agree to W3C licensing stuff
18:17:36 <pfps> sandro: location of test repository?
18:17:53 <pfps> markus: not determined yet, but any place is OK (in W3C space)
18:18:03 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/test
18:18:14 <pfps> sandro: what about the above spot?
18:18:20 <pfps> markus: looks OK
18:18:41 <msmith> sounds good
18:18:42 <pfps> sandro: we can use CVS  for upload
18:18:49 <bijan> What's the license on the suite?
18:18:57 <bijan> Can one create derived works?
18:19:19 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/Project/CVSdoc/
18:19:31 <MarkusK_> q+ to answer bijan
18:19:32 <pfps> sandro: documentation at above link
18:19:51 <pfps> sandro: I need an SSH public key to set up access
18:19:56 <msmith> yes, I will email you an ssh key
18:20:08 <pfps> sandro: Markus and Mike to send PK
18:20:10 <sandro> ack MarkusK_ 
18:20:10 <Zakim> MarkusK_, you wanted to answer bijan
18:20:29 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:20:29 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:20:31 <bijan> q+
18:20:40 <pfps> markus: derived works are allowed for tests, we'll use a creative commons license
18:20:52 <MarkusK_> http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases.html
18:21:02 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:21:04 <pfps> markus: W3C will control entire test suite
18:21:22 <pfps> bijan: OK, I was worried about the W3C document liclense, which would not have been suitable
18:21:32 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:21:32 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:21:32 <MarkusK_> My current draft license conditions are: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/OWL_Test_Cases:Copyrights
18:21:41 <pfps> bijan: I want to use the test suite and modify it for other purposes
18:21:54 <pfps> topic: plans for non-LC documents
18:22:23 <bijan> a 3-clause BSD License for software development, bugtracking, and other applications that do not require assertions of performance to the public or implied claims of conformance to a W3C Specification. See summary of 3-clause BSD License.
18:22:23 <bijan> a W3C Test Suite License for an Authoritative W3C Test Suite or when claims of performance with respect to a specification are required. See summary of W3C Test Suite License.
18:22:26 <pfps> sandro: hard to make decision on REC-track today because no chairs
18:22:35 <pfps> sandro: status checks
18:22:42 <pfps> sandro: QRG?
18:23:06 <pfps> dlm: there are some things that still need to be done, and they will be done
18:23:08 <baojie> To do list:
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create inline hyperlinks to Syntax
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create hyperlinks to Direct Semantics and RDF-Based Semantics once the anchors in those documents are ready
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Complete inline hyperlinks to Primer when the missing ones are ready
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create inline hyperlinks to New Features and Rationale
18:23:09 <baojie>     * Make a new 2-page print version.
18:23:11 <baojie>     * Design a similar guide for profiles with 1 page print version. 
18:23:20 <pfps> dlm: need tags in other documents
18:23:28 <bijan> Nope
18:23:28 <pfps> sandro: go ahead and add tags
18:23:37 <bijan> We might derive tags from heading
18:23:39 <pfps> pfps: need to make *sure* no duplicates!
18:23:42 <bijan> q+
18:23:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:23:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:23:54 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:24:03 <pfps> pfps: can use W3C tools to check for dups
18:24:14 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
18:24:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted),
18:24:17 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg
18:24:23 <pfps> bijan: can this be done automatically?
18:24:46 <bmotik> q+
18:24:51 <pfps> baojie: most links are there at least in Syntax and ???
18:24:58 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:24:58 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:24:58 <sandro> ack bmotik 
18:25:01 <pfps> baojie: semantics and ??? need more tags
18:25:14 <sandro> s/???/rdf-based semantics/
18:25:36 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:25:36 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:25:38 <pfps> bmotik: QRG doesn't reflect last set of changes (annotations)
18:25:43 <sandro> bmotik: annotation assertions don't seem to have made it into QRG
18:26:01 <pfps> baojie: which?
18:26:07 <sandro> q?
18:26:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:26:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:26:28 <pfps> baojie: will check and change as necessary
18:26:51 <sandro> action: baojie update QRG for annotation assertions
18:26:51 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - baojie
18:26:55 <sandro> action: jie update QRG for annotation assertions
18:26:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-258 - Update QRG for annotation assertions [on Jie Bao - due 2008-12-17].
18:27:09 <bmotik> q+
18:27:36 <pfps> baojie: guide for profiles?
18:27:56 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:27:56 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:27:56 <sandro> ack baojie 
18:28:14 <pfps> bmotik: what about reviewing?
18:28:22 <bijan> I'm generally against proliferation of documents at this stage
18:28:27 <pfps> sandro: was reviewed for FPWD, needs to be done for next publication
18:28:37 <pfps> bmotik: I'll review for next publication
18:28:48 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:28:48 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:28:54 <pfps> ACTION: bmotik review next version of QRG
18:28:54 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik
18:29:07 <pfps> ACTION: motik review next version of QRG
18:29:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-259 - Review next version of QRG [on Boris Motik - due 2008-12-17].
18:29:34 <pfps> sandro: next publication date for QRG
18:29:39 <bmotik> My user name is bmotik2. However, I'd prefer not taking an action now (because I can't work it off immediately).
18:29:44 <bijan> q+
18:29:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:29:50 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:29:53 <pfps> sandro: probably wait until end of LC
18:30:23 <pfps> pfps:  I'll adjust the action due date to Feb (if this is not OK, you could just kill the item)
18:30:23 <bmotik> We can add my name to the Review list, and then when we get to next publication date, I'll be happy to take the action
18:30:33 <pfps> pfps: OK that works
18:30:55 <bmotik> -q
18:31:17 <pfps> bijan: we can generate PDF using princeXML and get hyperlinks for "free"
18:31:25 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:31:44 <pfps> bijan: next version of primer will be ready early Jan 2009
18:32:00 <pfps> bijan: a WD publication in Jan would be fine
18:32:08 <dlmcg1> dlmcg1 has joined #owl
18:32:23 <pfps> sandro: princeXML works great - W3C has a real license and can "push the button"
18:32:50 <pfps> dlm: HTML version is longer than 2 pages - we want PDF to be 2 pages
18:33:05 <pfps> bijan: why? I have CSS for the compact layout
18:33:09 <sandro> q?
18:33:31 <pfps> dlm: I haven't looked at this - let's check it out offline
18:33:40 <pfps> bijan: we can really make it work
18:33:55 <pfps> baojie: current document is longer so care is needed
18:34:20 <pfps> bijan: if content is the same then the 2-page PDF design can be generated automagically using CSS
18:34:33 <pfps> sandro: may require some "polishing"
18:34:49 <pfps> sandro: new features and rationale
18:34:54 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:34:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted),
18:34:57 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg
18:35:00 <bijan> q+
18:35:06 <pfps> sandro: Christine has had a power failure so  she can't be here
18:35:08 <bmotik> I've added a note about my review of the Quick Reference to http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing; I'm now waiting for chairs to "ping me"
18:35:14 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:35:14 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:35:15 <sandro> zakim, aagg is dlm
18:35:16 <Zakim> +dlm; got it
18:35:45 <pfps> bijan: I gave feedback, including demo of appendix, but I have no feedback
18:35:57 <pfps> bijan: I think that there is some stuff that should be removed 
18:36:08 <pfps> bijan: we should schedule some time for discussion
18:36:24 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
18:36:24 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24
18:36:29 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:36:29 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:36:47 <sandro> action: sandro make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24
18:36:47 <pfps> zakim, who is talking?
18:36:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-260 - Make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-17].
18:36:59 <Zakim> pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (50%), dlm (39%)
18:37:06 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:37:06 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:37:40 <sandro> bijan: still planning to get Primer feature-complete over winter break
18:37:42 <pfps> bijan: primer will be upgraded by mid-Jan
18:38:40 <pfps> sandro: next publication? self-standing or with a bunch of other stuff
18:38:45 <pfps> bijan: arguments either way
18:39:03 <pfps> sandro: primer alone may entice attention and reviews
18:39:30 <pfps> bijan: reasonable publication time would be early Jan - to allow time before end of LC
18:39:36 <pfps> sandro: yes
18:39:41 <sandro> q?
18:39:41 <pfps> bijan: I'll give it a shot
18:39:48 <pfps> ack bijan
18:40:15 <pfps> sandro: should be able to line up a reviewer nowish - volunteers?
18:40:24 <uli> i would
18:40:26 <bmotik> I can do a review of the Primer.
18:40:36 <bmotik> q+
18:40:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:40:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:40:39 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:40:40 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:40:41 <sandro> ack bmotik 
18:41:10 <uli> good point, Boris
18:41:21 <pfps> bmotik: IJCAI deadline is early Jan (12?) which knocks out 7-12
18:41:40 <uli> me too
18:41:52 <pfps> sandro: decision should be made on 7 Jan, so reviews need to be done by then
18:41:53 <uli> difficult for me
18:42:01 <pfps> bmotik: review before then would be acceptable
18:42:11 <uli> before christmas :(
18:42:21 <pfps> sandro: when does the primer need to be done?
18:42:26 <uli> oi
18:42:30 <pfps> bmotik: by 1 Jan
18:42:35 <bijan> Sure
18:42:40 <pfps> sandro: bijan - does that work?
18:42:42 <bijan> And I'll am for before xmas for uli
18:42:45 <bijan> aim
18:42:45 <pfps> bijan: sure
18:42:54 <sandro> proposed schedule:    bijan done by Jan 1, Uli and Boris reviews by Jan 6, WG publication decision Jan 7.
18:43:01 <bmotik> +1
18:43:07 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:43:07 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
18:44:00 <pfps> uli: I will be moving so I can't promise a review
18:44:11 <sandro> Understanding the Boris will be travelling on Jan 7, and Uli will be moving and off-line until Jan 8.
18:44:16 <pfps> uli: by jan 7 (8th is OK)
18:44:27 <bijan> Could probably get a review from Matthew Horridge
18:44:39 <uli> yes
18:44:39 <bijan> Dunno
18:44:47 <pfps> pfps: Matthew is not in the WG
18:44:48 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:44:48 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:44:48 <bijan> He's author of a document
18:44:55 <bijan> We canmake hima  member pretty easily
18:45:17 <uli> ok
18:45:18 <bijan> Or he can fake uli's email :)
18:45:37 <uli> me neither
18:45:40 <pfps> sandro: can we get Matthew to sign up for a review (and show up on the 7th)
18:46:02 <bijan> q+
18:46:09 <pfps> sandro: repairs section?
18:46:10 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:46:11 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:46:14 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:46:34 <pfps> bijan: this was to add a section to primer on repairs
18:46:40 <bmotik> +1 to bijan
18:46:45 <pfps> bijan:  I don't find this suitable for the primer
18:47:08 <pfps> bijan: primer is not dumping spot for things that don't fit elsewhere
18:47:25 <pfps> bijan: primer is not normative so putting repairs there doesn't gain anything
18:47:30 <pfps> bmotik: agree
18:47:46 <pfps> sandro: no one has argued for this
18:47:48 <sandro> no one arguing in favor of repairs in Primer
18:47:54 <sandro> (here, today.)
18:47:59 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-12-03#Open_items
18:48:08 <pfps> bmotik: Alan was pushing this
18:48:11 <bijan> Noep
18:48:23 <pfps> sandro: Manchester syntax?
18:49:00 <sandro> pfps: I believe MS is done, modulo any error reports we get
18:49:04 <pfps> pfps: I think that it is done, and consistent with current state of primary documents
18:49:16 <pfps> sandro: datarange extension
18:49:16 <bijan> Same schedule as before
18:49:21 <bijan> We plan for something by jan
18:49:22 <bijan> uyes
18:49:34 <bijan> Yes please
18:49:36 <pfps> sandro: publication timing?
18:49:47 <pfps> bijan: wait for next chunk of publications
18:49:48 <sandro> publication -- same time as next big round
18:50:12 <pfps> sandro: rec-track status - no decision, just discussion
18:50:24 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:50:24 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:51:00 <baojie> +baojie
18:51:12 <pfps> bijan: I prefer notes, but will acceed to rec track, so long as everything has same status
18:51:27 <baojie> +q
18:51:29 <sandro> ack baojie 
18:52:03 <dlmcg1> +q
18:52:12 <pfps> baojie: QRG, Primer, and ??? should be rec track
18:52:25 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:27 <pfps> sandro: let's only take note arguments
18:52:29 <pfps> q+
18:52:34 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:44 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:46 <schneid> q+
18:52:47 <sandro> ack dlmcg
18:52:50 <sandro> ack pfps 
18:52:58 <pfps> pfps: I agree with Bijan
18:53:02 <sandro> pfps: I agree with Bijan in all his Revealed Glory
18:53:06 <Achille> +1 for rec trac as suggested by bijan
18:53:07 <sandro> pfps: I agree with Bijan in all His Revealed Glory
18:53:10 <uli> which are the ???
18:53:14 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
18:53:14 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
18:53:15 <sandro> ack schneid 
18:53:19 <uli> just to ensure that we don't agree too soon
18:53:29 <sandro> schneid: I'd also prefer to have them all rec track.
18:53:36 <pfps> schneid: prefer rec track, but only slightly
18:53:46 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:53:46 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:53:52 <uli> q+
18:54:10 <sandro> PROPOSED: QRG, NFR, and Primer are all Rec Track
18:54:14 <pfps> q+
18:54:18 <sandro> ack uli 
18:54:20 <pfps> q-
18:54:22 <bmotik> +1
18:54:22 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:54:22 <Zakim> uli was not muted, uli
18:54:47 <pfps> yes, I'll update the ???s
18:55:20 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:55:20 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:55:32 <pfps> s/???/NFR/
18:55:39 <pfps> q+
18:56:04 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:56:04 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:56:39 <pfps> bijan: happy with just these three tied together
18:56:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: Quick Reference Guide, New Features and Rationale, Primer will all be Recommendation Track.   Not making any decision on Manchester Syntax or Data Range Extension at this point.
18:56:47 <Achille> +1
18:56:49 <pfps> +1
18:56:54 <pfps> pfps: +1
18:56:58 <schneid> +1
18:56:59 <bmotik> +1
18:57:02 <pfps> pfps: 0
18:57:05 <msmith> 0
18:57:06 <Zhe> 0
18:57:06 <bcuencagrau> 0
18:57:07 <JeffP> 0
18:57:07 <bijan> +1 but thinks that people should not argue after someone has graciously conceded already!
18:57:07 <baojie> +1
18:57:10 <dlmcg1> +1
18:57:10 <MarkusK_> 0
18:57:18 <uli> +1
18:57:24 <sandro> RESOLVED: Quick Reference Guide, New Features and Rationale, Primer will all be Recommendation Track.   Not making any decision on Manchester Syntax or Data Range Extension at this point.
18:57:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:57:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:58:02 <pfps> bijan: Manchester Syntax for next week
18:58:08 <pfps> topic: RIF coordination
18:58:10 <bijan> q+
18:58:21 <pfps> sandro: meeting tomorrow (noon EST, 5pm GMT)
18:58:26 <pfps> pfps: I'll be there
18:58:40 <pfps> sandro: agenda was sent out
18:58:58 <pfps> bijan: need to worry about timing
18:59:12 <pfps> sandro: acknowledged
18:59:15 <JeffP> q+
18:59:28 <pfps> sandro: coordination a while ago would have been better
18:59:54 <pfps> bijan: there may be other coordination issues besides RL datatypes
19:00:10 <pfps> bijan: I'll send out email 
19:00:12 <sandro> ack pfps 
19:00:14 <pfps> q-
19:00:18 <sandro> ack bijan 
19:00:18 <bijan> ack bijan
19:00:20 <sandro> ack JeffP 
19:00:22 <bijan> zakim, mute me
19:00:22 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
19:00:46 <pfps> jeff: similar issues - worry about scope of coordination
19:01:26 <pfps> sandro: scope had several influences
19:01:42 <bijan> Is rif planning a LC comment?
19:01:52 <pfps> sandro: RIF folks may have had larger concerns
19:02:20 <pfps> sandro: don't know about any LC comments - hopefully things can be figured out in advance
19:02:20 <sandro> q?
19:02:43 <pfps> topic: Features "at-risk"
19:03:17 <Zakim> +??P17
19:03:28 <pfps> pfps: My belief is that this is to remind us not to drop them.
19:03:31 <bmotik> No more issues, please!
19:03:45 <pfps> sandro: any comments?
19:03:54 <pfps> topic: any other business
19:03:59 <bmotik> Bye
19:04:01 <Zhe> thanks
19:04:01 <schneid> bye
19:04:02 <MarkusK_> bye
19:04:02 <Zakim> -msmith
19:04:03 <JeffP> thanks, bye
19:04:04 <uli> bye
19:04:06 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
19:04:07 <Zakim> -JeffP
19:04:07 <msmith> msmith has left #owl
19:04:08 <Zakim> -bmotik
19:04:09 <Zakim> -Zhe
19:04:11 <Zakim> -bijan
19:04:15 <Zakim> -uli
19:04:16 <Zakim> -Achille
19:04:19 <Zakim> -schneid
19:04:30 <Zakim> -??P17
19:04:31 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
19:04:40 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
19:04:42 <Zakim> -Sandro
19:04:46 <Zakim> -baojie
19:04:57 <Zakim> -clu
19:05:06 <Zakim> -dlm
19:05:08 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:05:09 <Zakim> Attendees were bijan, +1.914.421.aaaa, Achille, Sandro, bmotik, Peter_Patel-Schneider, +0494212186aabb, +1.518.276.aacc, clu, baojie, MarkusK_, +1.202.408.aadd, msmith, Zhe, uli,
19:05:11 <Zakim> ... +0122427aaff, JeffP, schneid, bcuencagrau, +1.518.276.aagg, dlm
19:05:27 <uli> uli has left #owl
19:06:41 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
19:06:47 <Zakim> +??P0
19:06:56 <Zakim> -??P0
19:06:57 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:06:57 <Zakim> Attendees were 
20:27:21 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
21:10:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #owl


17:47:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #owl
17:47:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc
17:48:04 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public
17:49:01 <clu> clu has joined #owl
17:52:03 <bijan> bijan has joined #owl
17:52:51 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
17:52:58 <Zakim> +??P5
17:53:03 <bijan> zakim, ??p5 is me
17:53:03 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
17:55:40 <Achille> Achille has joined #owl
17:56:31 <Zakim> + +1.914.421.aaaa
17:56:54 <Achille> Zakim, + +1.914.421.aaaa is me
17:56:54 <Zakim> I don't understand '+ +1.914.421.aaaa is me', Achille
17:57:17 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:57:17 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:57:19 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Achille 
17:57:20 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
17:57:26 <Zakim> +??P7
17:57:27 <bijan> Or a kid :)
17:57:30 <Achille> sorry
17:57:33 <bijan> No no!
17:57:36 <bijan> I like kids
17:57:39 <Achille> Zakim, mute me
17:57:39 <Zakim> Achille should now be muted
17:57:53 <Zakim> +Sandro
17:58:19 <bmotik> bmotik has joined #owl
17:58:27 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
17:58:50 <Zakim> +??P2
17:58:53 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P2 is me
17:58:53 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
17:58:55 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
17:58:56 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
17:59:49 <pfps> pfps has joined #owl
18:00:04 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
18:00:19 <pfps> Scribe pfps
18:00:26 <MarkusK_> MarkusK_ has joined #owl
18:00:28 <Zakim> + +0494212186aabb
18:00:34 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc
18:00:35 <clu> zakim, aabb is me
18:00:36 <Zakim> +clu; got it
18:00:41 <clu> zakim, mute me
18:00:41 <Zakim> clu should now be muted
18:00:43 <baojie> Zakim, aacc is baojie
18:00:43 <Zakim> +baojie; got it
18:00:46 <Zakim> -??P7
18:01:13 <pfps> ScribeNick: pfps
18:01:15 <sandro> Christine calls in to give regrets, as there is suddenly no electricity where she is.
18:01:23 <Zakim> +??P7
18:01:26 <pfps> RRSAgent, make records public
18:01:35 <sandro> she asks us to postpone discussion of the UFD.
18:01:36 <pfps> Zakim, this will be owlwg
18:01:36 <Zakim> ok, pfps; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start now
18:01:38 <Zhe> Zhe has joined #owl
18:01:42 <msmith> msmith has joined #owl
18:02:08 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #owl
18:03:18 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:03:18 <Zakim> I notice SW_OWL()1:00PM has restarted
18:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, +1.202.408.aadd
18:03:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaee
18:03:44 <uli> uli has joined #owl
18:03:52 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aaee is me
18:03:52 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
18:03:58 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
18:04:01 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
18:04:07 <pfps> topic: agenda amendments
18:04:14 <bcuencagrau> bcuencagrau has joined #owl
18:04:16 <sandro> PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (3 December)
18:04:22 <pfps> the minutes looked OK to me
18:04:39 <sandro> RESOLVED Accept Previous Minutes (3 December)
18:04:46 <pfps> topic: Action Item Status
18:04:53 <Zakim> +??P11
18:04:59 <uli> zakim, ??P11 is me
18:05:00 <bmotik> That has been done
18:05:03 <Zakim> +uli; got it
18:05:04 <sandro> action-251 done
18:05:05 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:05:10 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:05:11 <sandro> action-251?
18:05:11 <trackbot> ACTION-251 -- Boris Motik to update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed -- due 2008-11-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:05:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/251
18:05:28 <schneid> schneid has joined #owl
18:05:30 <uli> zkim, mute me
18:05:33 <pfps> I think that that one was done quite some time ago
18:05:35 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:05:35 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:05:43 <sandro> action-251 closed
18:05:43 <trackbot> ACTION-251 Update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed closed
18:05:45 <pfps> sandro: any feedback needed
18:05:48 <pfps> boris: nope
18:05:50 <Zakim> + +0122427aaff
18:05:54 <sandro> action-254 closed
18:05:54 <trackbot> ACTION-254 Create missing grammars in the documents closed
18:05:57 <JeffP> zakim, aaff is me
18:05:57 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it
18:06:06 <sandro> action-256 closed
18:06:06 <trackbot> ACTION-256 Set up telecon time poll for rif/owl joint coordination one-time meeting closed
18:06:09 <Zakim> +??P14
18:06:19 <schneid> zakim, ??P14 is me
18:06:19 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
18:06:22 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:06:22 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:06:23 <bijan> Do we need to discuss it?
18:06:52 <pfps> RIF meeting discussion is later in the agenda
18:06:56 <sandro> action-257 closed
18:06:56 <trackbot> ACTION-257 Set up WBS poll for F2F times closed
18:07:12 <sandro> action-252?
18:07:12 <trackbot> ACTION-252 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to checking progress of XML Schema 1.1 and datetime datatype -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN
18:07:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/252
18:07:32 <pfps> pfps: I'm waiting for XML Schema WG to get back to us
18:07:41 <pfps> sandro: Any particular deadline
18:07:56 <pfps> pfps: The sooner the better, but we need it before end of Last Call
18:07:56 <sandro> action-250?
18:07:56 <trackbot> ACTION-250 -- Sandro Hawke to send mime-type registrations in to IETF when we do last-call publications -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN
18:07:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/250
18:08:17 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Round_4#Publicity
18:08:36 <pfps> Topic: announcing last call
18:08:43 <pfps> sandro: some has been done
18:08:53 <bijan> http://clarkparsia.com/weblog/2008/12/03/owl-2-last-call-documents-published/
18:08:57 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:08:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik, Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe (muted), uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted)
18:08:59 <pfps> sandro: do some announcement (and add to wiki page)
18:09:26 <pfps> sandro: going around the "room" 
18:09:30 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me
18:09:30 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted
18:09:32 <pfps> sandro: bijan? 
18:09:34 <bijan> I'm harrasing people
18:09:36 <uli> I checked and compared my 'candidates', but Ian had already done them
18:09:44 <Zakim> +??P15
18:09:45 <MarkusK_> I have put a small notice at semanticweb.org
18:09:47 <pfps> sandro: achille?
18:09:48 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P15 is me
18:09:48 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
18:09:54 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
18:09:54 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
18:09:57 <pfps> pfps: same as uli 
18:10:00 <Achille> i prefer typing
18:10:08 <Achille> my baby is unhappy
18:10:15 <MarkusK_> s /semanticweb.org/the main page of semanticweb.org/
18:10:19 <bijan> HCLS list?
18:10:28 <bijan> Yes :(
18:10:30 <pfps> sandro: I owe a blog post about this
18:10:38 <Achille> I'll send note in ibm internal mailing lists
18:10:46 <pfps> sandro: bijan - please put up on HCLS
18:11:05 <bijan> Oh, we'll be doing internal review here
18:11:06 <pfps> pfps:  same as uli - my suspects have been handled
18:11:07 <Achille> and in a talk i will give at Bolzen-Bolzano free university next week
18:11:22 <bijan> I.e., having people inside manchester review all the documents carefully
18:11:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:11:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:11:28 <pfps> sandro: please publicize
18:11:29 <Zhe> I have sent the notice to Oracle's internal list
18:11:38 <pfps> topic: F2F5
18:11:56 <pfps> sandro: no decision today (no Alan, no Ian)
18:12:09 <pfps> sandro: does anyone want to answer the poll?
18:12:16 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/41712/f2f5date/results
18:12:52 <pfps> sandro: results are close - lead is Mar 3-4
18:13:00 <pfps> sandro: probably chairs will decide
18:13:05 <pfps> topic: LC comments
18:13:11 <pfps> sandro: none yet
18:13:21 <pfps> sandro: Ian has a page for coordination
18:13:43 <pfps> sandro: if there are not too many comments we'll just use this wiki page
18:13:48 <msmith> q+
18:13:48 <pfps> topic: test cases
18:13:54 <MarkusK_> q+
18:13:58 <dlm> dlm has joined #owl
18:14:04 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Queue
18:14:18 <pfps> msmith: there are some test cases in proper format
18:14:41 <pfps> msmith: email asking for people to check them out was just sent
18:14:50 <pfps> msmith: could be approved next week
18:15:01 <MarkusK_> q+ to report on test case licensing issues
18:15:14 <pfps> msmith: results for Pellet and Hermit are included
18:15:29 <pfps> sandro: plan for gathering test results where others drive?
18:15:41 <pfps> msmith: still needs to be ironed out
18:16:00 <pfps> msmith: oracle has some suggestions
18:16:16 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aagg
18:16:27 <sandro> ack MarkusK_ 
18:16:27 <Zakim> MarkusK_, you wanted to report on test case licensing issues
18:16:31 <pfps> sandro: Webont had a way of incorporating external results
18:16:35 <sandro> ack msmith 
18:17:24 <pfps> markus: only issue is that publicly contributed test cases need a release to agree to W3C licensing stuff
18:17:36 <pfps> sandro: location of test repository?
18:17:53 <pfps> markus: not determined yet, but any place is OK (in W3C space)
18:18:03 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/test
18:18:14 <pfps> sandro: what about the above spot?
18:18:20 <pfps> markus: looks OK
18:18:41 <msmith> sounds good
18:18:42 <pfps> sandro: we can use CVS  for upload
18:18:49 <bijan> What's the license on the suite?
18:18:57 <bijan> Can one create derived works?
18:19:19 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/Project/CVSdoc/
18:19:31 <MarkusK_> q+ to answer bijan
18:19:32 <pfps> sandro: documentation at above link
18:19:51 <pfps> sandro: I need an SSH public key to set up access
18:19:56 <msmith> yes, I will email you an ssh key
18:20:08 <pfps> sandro: Markus and Mike to send PK
18:20:10 <sandro> ack MarkusK_ 
18:20:10 <Zakim> MarkusK_, you wanted to answer bijan
18:20:29 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:20:29 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:20:31 <bijan> q+
18:20:40 <pfps> markus: derived works are allowed for tests, we'll use a creative commons license
18:20:52 <MarkusK_> http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases.html
18:21:02 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:21:04 <pfps> markus: W3C will control entire test suite
18:21:22 <pfps> bijan: OK, I was worried about the W3C document liclense, which would not have been suitable
18:21:32 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:21:32 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:21:32 <MarkusK_> My current draft license conditions are: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/OWL_Test_Cases:Copyrights
18:21:41 <pfps> bijan: I want to use the test suite and modify it for other purposes
18:21:54 <pfps> topic: plans for non-LC documents
18:22:23 <bijan> a 3-clause BSD License for software development, bugtracking, and other applications that do not require assertions of performance to the public or implied claims of conformance to a W3C Specification. See summary of 3-clause BSD License.
18:22:23 <bijan> a W3C Test Suite License for an Authoritative W3C Test Suite or when claims of performance with respect to a specification are required. See summary of W3C Test Suite License.
18:22:26 <pfps> sandro: hard to make decision on REC-track today because no chairs
18:22:35 <pfps> sandro: status checks
18:22:42 <pfps> sandro: QRG?
18:23:06 <pfps> dlm: there are some things that still need to be done, and they will be done
18:23:08 <baojie> To do list:
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create inline hyperlinks to Syntax
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create hyperlinks to Direct Semantics and RDF-Based Semantics once the anchors in those documents are ready
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Complete inline hyperlinks to Primer when the missing ones are ready
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create inline hyperlinks to New Features and Rationale
18:23:09 <baojie>     * Make a new 2-page print version.
18:23:11 <baojie>     * Design a similar guide for profiles with 1 page print version. 
18:23:20 <pfps> dlm: need tags in other documents
18:23:28 <bijan> Nope
18:23:28 <pfps> sandro: go ahead and add tags
18:23:37 <bijan> We might derive tags from heading
18:23:39 <pfps> pfps: need to make *sure* no duplicates!
18:23:42 <bijan> q+
18:23:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:23:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:23:54 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:24:03 <pfps> pfps: can use W3C tools to check for dups
18:24:14 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
18:24:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted),
18:24:17 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg
18:24:23 <pfps> bijan: can this be done automatically?
18:24:46 <bmotik> q+
18:24:51 <pfps> baojie: most links are there at least in Syntax and ???
18:24:58 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:24:58 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:24:58 <sandro> ack bmotik 
18:25:01 <pfps> baojie: semantics and ??? need more tags
18:25:14 <sandro> s/???/rdf-based semantics/
18:25:36 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:25:36 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:25:38 <pfps> bmotik: QRG doesn't reflect last set of changes (annotations)
18:25:43 <sandro> bmotik: annotation assertions don't seem to have made it into QRG
18:26:01 <pfps> baojie: which?
18:26:07 <sandro> q?
18:26:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:26:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:26:28 <pfps> baojie: will check and change as necessary
18:26:51 <sandro> action: baojie update QRG for annotation assertions
18:26:51 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - baojie
18:26:55 <sandro> action: jie update QRG for annotation assertions
18:26:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-258 - Update QRG for annotation assertions [on Jie Bao - due 2008-12-17].
18:27:09 <bmotik> q+
18:27:36 <pfps> baojie: guide for profiles?
18:27:56 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:27:56 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:27:56 <sandro> ack baojie 
18:28:14 <pfps> bmotik: what about reviewing?
18:28:22 <bijan> I'm generally against proliferation of documents at this stage
18:28:27 <pfps> sandro: was reviewed for FPWD, needs to be done for next publication
18:28:37 <pfps> bmotik: I'll review for next publication
18:28:48 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:28:48 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:28:54 <pfps> ACTION: bmotik review next version of QRG
18:28:54 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik
18:29:07 <pfps> ACTION: motik review next version of QRG
18:29:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-259 - Review next version of QRG [on Boris Motik - due 2008-12-17].
18:29:34 <pfps> sandro: next publication date for QRG
18:29:39 <bmotik> My user name is bmotik2. However, I'd prefer not taking an action now (because I can't work it off immediately).
18:29:44 <bijan> q+
18:29:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:29:50 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:29:53 <pfps> sandro: probably wait until end of LC
18:30:23 <pfps> pfps:  I'll adjust the action due date to Feb (if this is not OK, you could just kill the item)
18:30:23 <bmotik> We can add my name to the Review list, and then when we get to next publication date, I'll be happy to take the action
18:30:33 <pfps> pfps: OK that works
18:30:55 <bmotik> -q
18:31:17 <pfps> bijan: we can generate PDF using princeXML and get hyperlinks for "free"
18:31:25 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:31:44 <pfps> bijan: next version of primer will be ready early Jan 2009
18:32:00 <pfps> bijan: a WD publication in Jan would be fine
18:32:08 <dlmcg1> dlmcg1 has joined #owl
18:32:23 <pfps> sandro: princeXML works great - W3C has a real license and can "push the button"
18:32:50 <pfps> dlm: HTML version is longer than 2 pages - we want PDF to be 2 pages
18:33:05 <pfps> bijan: why? I have CSS for the compact layout
18:33:09 <sandro> q?
18:33:31 <pfps> dlm: I haven't looked at this - let's check it out offline
18:33:40 <pfps> bijan: we can really make it work
18:33:55 <pfps> baojie: current document is longer so care is needed
18:34:20 <pfps> bijan: if content is the same then the 2-page PDF design can be generated automagically using CSS
18:34:33 <pfps> sandro: may require some "polishing"
18:34:49 <pfps> sandro: new features and rationale
18:34:54 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:34:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted),
18:34:57 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg
18:35:00 <bijan> q+
18:35:06 <pfps> sandro: Christine has had a power failure so  she can't be here
18:35:08 <bmotik> I've added a note about my review of the Quick Reference to http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing; I'm now waiting for chairs to "ping me"
18:35:14 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:35:14 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:35:15 <sandro> zakim, aagg is dlm
18:35:16 <Zakim> +dlm; got it
18:35:45 <pfps> bijan: I gave feedback, including demo of appendix, but I have no feedback
18:35:57 <pfps> bijan: I think that there is some stuff that should be removed 
18:36:08 <pfps> bijan: we should schedule some time for discussion
18:36:24 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
18:36:24 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24
18:36:29 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:36:29 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:36:47 <sandro> action: sandro make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24
18:36:47 <pfps> zakim, who is talking?
18:36:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-260 - Make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-17].
18:36:59 <Zakim> pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (50%), dlm (39%)
18:37:06 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:37:06 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:37:40 <sandro> bijan: still planning to get Primer feature-complete over winter break
18:37:42 <pfps> bijan: primer will be upgraded by mid-Jan
18:38:40 <pfps> sandro: next publication? self-standing or with a bunch of other stuff
18:38:45 <pfps> bijan: arguments either way
18:39:03 <pfps> sandro: primer alone may entice attention and reviews
18:39:30 <pfps> bijan: reasonable publication time would be early Jan - to allow time before end of LC
18:39:36 <pfps> sandro: yes
18:39:41 <sandro> q?
18:39:41 <pfps> bijan: I'll give it a shot
18:39:48 <pfps> ack bijan
18:40:15 <pfps> sandro: should be able to line up a reviewer nowish - volunteers?
18:40:24 <uli> i would
18:40:26 <bmotik> I can do a review of the Primer.
18:40:36 <bmotik> q+
18:40:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:40:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:40:39 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:40:40 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:40:41 <sandro> ack bmotik 
18:41:10 <uli> good point, Boris
18:41:21 <pfps> bmotik: IJCAI deadline is early Jan (12?) which knocks out 7-12
18:41:40 <uli> me too
18:41:52 <pfps> sandro: decision should be made on 7 Jan, so reviews need to be done by then
18:41:53 <uli> difficult for me
18:42:01 <pfps> bmotik: review before then would be acceptable
18:42:11 <uli> before christmas :(
18:42:21 <pfps> sandro: when does the primer need to be done?
18:42:26 <uli> oi
18:42:30 <pfps> bmotik: by 1 Jan
18:42:35 <bijan> Sure
18:42:40 <pfps> sandro: bijan - does that work?
18:42:42 <bijan> And I'll am for before xmas for uli
18:42:45 <bijan> aim
18:42:45 <pfps> bijan: sure
18:42:54 <sandro> proposed schedule:    bijan done by Jan 1, Uli and Boris reviews by Jan 6, WG publication decision Jan 7.
18:43:01 <bmotik> +1
18:43:07 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:43:07 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
18:44:00 <pfps> uli: I will be moving so I can't promise a review
18:44:11 <sandro> Understanding the Boris will be travelling on Jan 7, and Uli will be moving and off-line until Jan 8.
18:44:16 <pfps> uli: by jan 7 (8th is OK)
18:44:27 <bijan> Could probably get a review from Matthew Horridge
18:44:39 <uli> yes
18:44:39 <bijan> Dunno
18:44:47 <pfps> pfps: Matthew is not in the WG
18:44:48 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:44:48 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:44:48 <bijan> He's author of a document
18:44:55 <bijan> We canmake hima  member pretty easily
18:45:17 <uli> ok
18:45:18 <bijan> Or he can fake uli's email :)
18:45:37 <uli> me neither
18:45:40 <pfps> sandro: can we get Matthew to sign up for a review (and show up on the 7th)
18:46:02 <bijan> q+
18:46:09 <pfps> sandro: repairs section?
18:46:10 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:46:11 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:46:14 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:46:34 <pfps> bijan: this was to add a section to primer on repairs
18:46:40 <bmotik> +1 to bijan
18:46:45 <pfps> bijan:  I don't find this suitable for the primer
18:47:08 <pfps> bijan: primer is not dumping spot for things that don't fit elsewhere
18:47:25 <pfps> bijan: primer is not normative so putting repairs there doesn't gain anything
18:47:30 <pfps> bmotik: agree
18:47:46 <pfps> sandro: no one has argued for this
18:47:48 <sandro> no one arguing in favor of repairs in Primer
18:47:54 <sandro> (here, today.)
18:47:59 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-12-03#Open_items
18:48:08 <pfps> bmotik: Alan was pushing this
18:48:11 <bijan> Noep
18:48:23 <pfps> sandro: Manchester syntax?
18:49:00 <sandro> pfps: I believe MS is done, modulo any error reports we get
18:49:04 <pfps> pfps: I think that it is done, and consistent with current state of primary documents
18:49:16 <pfps> sandro: datarange extension
18:49:16 <bijan> Same schedule as before
18:49:21 <bijan> We plan for something by jan
18:49:22 <bijan> uyes
18:49:34 <bijan> Yes please
18:49:36 <pfps> sandro: publication timing?
18:49:47 <pfps> bijan: wait for next chunk of publications
18:49:48 <sandro> publication -- same time as next big round
18:50:12 <pfps> sandro: rec-track status - no decision, just discussion
18:50:24 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:50:24 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:51:00 <baojie> +baojie
18:51:12 <pfps> bijan: I prefer notes, but will acceed to rec track, so long as everything has same status
18:51:27 <baojie> +q
18:51:29 <sandro> ack baojie 
18:52:03 <dlmcg1> +q
18:52:12 <pfps> baojie: QRG, Primer, and ??? should be rec track
18:52:25 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:27 <pfps> sandro: let's only take note arguments
18:52:29 <pfps> q+
18:52:34 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:44 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:46 <schneid> q+
18:52:47 <sandro> ack dlmcg
18:52:50 <sandro> ack pfps 
18:52:58 <pfps> pfps: I agree with Bijan
18:53:02 <sandro> pfps: I agree with Bijan in all his Revealed Glory
18:53:06 <Achille> +1 for rec trac as suggested by bijan
18:53:07 <sandro> pfps: I agree with Bijan in all His Revealed Glory
18:53:10 <uli> which are the ???
18:53:14 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
18:53:14 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
18:53:15 <sandro> ack schneid 
18:53:19 <uli> just to ensure that we don't agree too soon
18:53:29 <sandro> schneid: I'd also prefer to have them all rec track.
18:53:36 <pfps> schneid: prefer rec track, but only slightly
18:53:46 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:53:46 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:53:52 <uli> q+
18:54:10 <sandro> PROPOSED: QRG, NFR, and Primer are all Rec Track
18:54:14 <pfps> q+
18:54:18 <sandro> ack uli 
18:54:20 <pfps> q-
18:54:22 <bmotik> +1
18:54:22 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:54:22 <Zakim> uli was not muted, uli
18:54:47 <pfps> yes, I'll update the ???s
18:55:20 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:55:20 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:55:32 <pfps> s/???/NFR/
18:55:39 <pfps> q+
18:56:04 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:56:04 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:56:39 <pfps> bijan: happy with just these three tied together
18:56:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: Quick Reference Guide, New Features and Rationale, Primer will all be Recommendation Track.   Not making any decision on Manchester Syntax or Data Range Extension at this point.
18:56:47 <Achille> +1
18:56:49 <pfps> +1
18:56:54 <pfps> pfps: +1
18:56:58 <schneid> +1
18:56:59 <bmotik> +1
18:57:02 <pfps> pfps: 0
18:57:05 <msmith> 0
18:57:06 <Zhe> 0
18:57:06 <bcuencagrau> 0
18:57:07 <JeffP> 0
18:57:07 <bijan> +1 but thinks that people should not argue after someone has graciously conceded already!
18:57:07 <baojie> +1
18:57:10 <dlmcg1> +1
18:57:10 <MarkusK_> 0
18:57:18 <uli> +1
18:57:24 <sandro> RESOLVED: Quick Reference Guide, New Features and Rationale, Primer will all be Recommendation Track.   Not making any decision on Manchester Syntax or Data Range Extension at this point.
18:57:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:57:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:58:02 <pfps> bijan: Manchester Syntax for next week
18:58:08 <pfps> topic: RIF coordination
18:58:10 <bijan> q+
18:58:21 <pfps> sandro: meeting tomorrow (noon EST, 5pm GMT)
18:58:26 <pfps> pfps: I'll be there
18:58:40 <pfps> sandro: agenda was sent out
18:58:58 <pfps> bijan: need to worry about timing
18:59:12 <pfps> sandro: acknowledged
18:59:15 <JeffP> q+
18:59:28 <pfps> sandro: coordination a while ago would have been better
18:59:54 <pfps> bijan: there may be other coordination issues besides RL datatypes
19:00:10 <pfps> bijan: I'll send out email 
19:00:12 <sandro> ack pfps 
19:00:14 <pfps> q-
19:00:18 <sandro> ack bijan 
19:00:18 <bijan> ack bijan
19:00:20 <sandro> ack JeffP 
19:00:22 <bijan> zakim, mute me
19:00:22 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
19:00:46 <pfps> jeff: similar issues - worry about scope of coordination
19:01:26 <pfps> sandro: scope had several influences
19:01:42 <bijan> Is rif planning a LC comment?
19:01:52 <pfps> sandro: RIF folks may have had larger concerns
19:02:20 <pfps> sandro: don't know about any LC comments - hopefully things can be figured out in advance
19:02:20 <sandro> q?
19:02:43 <pfps> topic: Features "at-risk"
19:03:17 <Zakim> +??P17
19:03:28 <pfps> pfps: My belief is that this is to remind us not to drop them.
19:03:31 <bmotik> No more issues, please!
19:03:45 <pfps> sandro: any comments?
19:03:54 <pfps> topic: any other business
19:03:59 <bmotik> Bye
19:04:01 <Zhe> thanks
19:04:01 <schneid> bye
19:04:02 <MarkusK_> bye
19:04:02 <Zakim> -msmith
19:04:03 <JeffP> thanks, bye
19:04:04 <uli> bye
19:04:06 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
19:04:07 <Zakim> -JeffP
19:04:07 <msmith> msmith has left #owl
19:04:08 <Zakim> -bmotik
19:04:09 <Zakim> -Zhe
19:04:11 <Zakim> -bijan
19:04:15 <Zakim> -uli
19:04:16 <Zakim> -Achille
19:04:19 <Zakim> -schneid
19:04:30 <Zakim> -??P17
19:04:31 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
19:04:40 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
19:04:42 <Zakim> -Sandro
19:04:46 <Zakim> -baojie
19:04:57 <Zakim> -clu
19:05:06 <Zakim> -dlm
19:05:08 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:05:09 <Zakim> Attendees were bijan, +1.914.421.aaaa, Achille, Sandro, bmotik, Peter_Patel-Schneider, +0494212186aabb, +1.518.276.aacc, clu, baojie, MarkusK_, +1.202.408.aadd, msmith, Zhe, uli,
19:05:11 <Zakim> ... +0122427aaff, JeffP, schneid, bcuencagrau, +1.518.276.aagg, dlm
19:05:27 <uli> uli has left #owl
19:06:41 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
19:06:47 <Zakim> +??P0
19:06:56 <Zakim> -??P0
19:06:57 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:06:57 <Zakim> Attendees were 
20:27:21 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
21:10:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #owl
17:47:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc
17:48:04 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public
17:49:01 <clu> clu has joined #owl
17:52:03 <bijan> bijan has joined #owl
17:52:51 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
17:52:58 <Zakim> +??P5
17:53:03 <bijan> zakim, ??p5 is me
17:53:03 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
17:55:40 <Achille> Achille has joined #owl
17:56:31 <Zakim> + +1.914.421.aaaa
17:56:54 <Achille> Zakim, + +1.914.421.aaaa is me
17:56:54 <Zakim> I don't understand '+ +1.914.421.aaaa is me', Achille
17:57:17 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:57:17 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:57:19 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Achille 
17:57:20 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
17:57:26 <Zakim> +??P7
17:57:27 <bijan> Or a kid :)
17:57:30 <Achille> sorry
17:57:33 <bijan> No no!
17:57:36 <bijan> I like kids
17:57:39 <Achille> Zakim, mute me
17:57:39 <Zakim> Achille should now be muted
17:57:53 <Zakim> +Sandro
17:58:19 <bmotik> bmotik has joined #owl
17:58:27 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
17:58:50 <Zakim> +??P2
17:58:53 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P2 is me
17:58:53 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
17:58:55 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
17:58:56 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
17:59:49 <pfps> pfps has joined #owl
18:00:04 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
18:00:19 <pfps> Scribe pfps
18:00:26 <MarkusK_> MarkusK_ has joined #owl
18:00:28 <Zakim> + +0494212186aabb
18:00:34 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc
18:00:35 <clu> zakim, aabb is me
18:00:36 <Zakim> +clu; got it
18:00:41 <clu> zakim, mute me
18:00:41 <Zakim> clu should now be muted
18:00:43 <baojie> Zakim, aacc is baojie
18:00:43 <Zakim> +baojie; got it
18:00:46 <Zakim> -??P7
18:01:13 <pfps> ScribeNick: pfps
18:01:15 <sandro> Christine calls in to give regrets, as there is suddenly no electricity where she is.
18:01:23 <Zakim> +??P7
18:01:26 <pfps> RRSAgent, make records public
18:01:35 <sandro> she asks us to postpone discussion of the UFD.
18:01:36 <pfps> Zakim, this will be owlwg
18:01:36 <Zakim> ok, pfps; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start now
18:01:38 <Zhe> Zhe has joined #owl
18:01:42 <msmith> msmith has joined #owl
18:02:08 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #owl
18:03:18 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:03:18 <Zakim> I notice SW_OWL()1:00PM has restarted
18:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, +1.202.408.aadd
18:03:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaee
18:03:44 <uli> uli has joined #owl
18:03:52 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aaee is me
18:03:52 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
18:03:58 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
18:04:01 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
18:04:07 <pfps> topic: agenda amendments
18:04:14 <bcuencagrau> bcuencagrau has joined #owl
18:04:16 <sandro> PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (3 December)
18:04:22 <pfps> the minutes looked OK to me
18:04:39 <sandro> RESOLVED Accept Previous Minutes (3 December)
18:04:46 <pfps> topic: Action Item Status
18:04:53 <Zakim> +??P11
18:04:59 <uli> zakim, ??P11 is me
18:05:00 <bmotik> That has been done
18:05:03 <Zakim> +uli; got it
18:05:04 <sandro> action-251 done
18:05:05 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:05:10 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:05:11 <sandro> action-251?
18:05:11 <trackbot> ACTION-251 -- Boris Motik to update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed -- due 2008-11-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:05:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/251
18:05:28 <schneid> schneid has joined #owl
18:05:30 <uli> zkim, mute me
18:05:33 <pfps> I think that that one was done quite some time ago
18:05:35 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:05:35 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:05:43 <sandro> action-251 closed
18:05:43 <trackbot> ACTION-251 Update the spec to include rdf:XMLLiteral and fix the annotations as proposed closed
18:05:45 <pfps> sandro: any feedback needed
18:05:48 <pfps> boris: nope
18:05:50 <Zakim> + +0122427aaff
18:05:54 <sandro> action-254 closed
18:05:54 <trackbot> ACTION-254 Create missing grammars in the documents closed
18:05:57 <JeffP> zakim, aaff is me
18:05:57 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it
18:06:06 <sandro> action-256 closed
18:06:06 <trackbot> ACTION-256 Set up telecon time poll for rif/owl joint coordination one-time meeting closed
18:06:09 <Zakim> +??P14
18:06:19 <schneid> zakim, ??P14 is me
18:06:19 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
18:06:22 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:06:22 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:06:23 <bijan> Do we need to discuss it?
18:06:52 <pfps> RIF meeting discussion is later in the agenda
18:06:56 <sandro> action-257 closed
18:06:56 <trackbot> ACTION-257 Set up WBS poll for F2F times closed
18:07:12 <sandro> action-252?
18:07:12 <trackbot> ACTION-252 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to checking progress of XML Schema 1.1 and datetime datatype -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN
18:07:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/252
18:07:32 <pfps> pfps: I'm waiting for XML Schema WG to get back to us
18:07:41 <pfps> sandro: Any particular deadline
18:07:56 <pfps> pfps: The sooner the better, but we need it before end of Last Call
18:07:56 <sandro> action-250?
18:07:56 <trackbot> ACTION-250 -- Sandro Hawke to send mime-type registrations in to IETF when we do last-call publications -- due 2008-12-10 -- OPEN
18:07:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/tracker/actions/250
18:08:17 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Round_4#Publicity
18:08:36 <pfps> Topic: announcing last call
18:08:43 <pfps> sandro: some has been done
18:08:53 <bijan> http://clarkparsia.com/weblog/2008/12/03/owl-2-last-call-documents-published/
18:08:57 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:08:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik, Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe (muted), uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted)
18:08:59 <pfps> sandro: do some announcement (and add to wiki page)
18:09:26 <pfps> sandro: going around the "room" 
18:09:30 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me
18:09:30 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted
18:09:32 <pfps> sandro: bijan? 
18:09:34 <bijan> I'm harrasing people
18:09:36 <uli> I checked and compared my 'candidates', but Ian had already done them
18:09:44 <Zakim> +??P15
18:09:45 <MarkusK_> I have put a small notice at semanticweb.org
18:09:47 <pfps> sandro: achille?
18:09:48 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P15 is me
18:09:48 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
18:09:54 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
18:09:54 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
18:09:57 <pfps> pfps: same as uli 
18:10:00 <Achille> i prefer typing
18:10:08 <Achille> my baby is unhappy
18:10:15 <MarkusK_> s /semanticweb.org/the main page of semanticweb.org/
18:10:19 <bijan> HCLS list?
18:10:28 <bijan> Yes :(
18:10:30 <pfps> sandro: I owe a blog post about this
18:10:38 <Achille> I'll send note in ibm internal mailing lists
18:10:46 <pfps> sandro: bijan - please put up on HCLS
18:11:05 <bijan> Oh, we'll be doing internal review here
18:11:06 <pfps> pfps:  same as uli - my suspects have been handled
18:11:07 <Achille> and in a talk i will give at Bolzen-Bolzano free university next week
18:11:22 <bijan> I.e., having people inside manchester review all the documents carefully
18:11:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:11:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:11:28 <pfps> sandro: please publicize
18:11:29 <Zhe> I have sent the notice to Oracle's internal list
18:11:38 <pfps> topic: F2F5
18:11:56 <pfps> sandro: no decision today (no Alan, no Ian)
18:12:09 <pfps> sandro: does anyone want to answer the poll?
18:12:16 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/41712/f2f5date/results
18:12:52 <pfps> sandro: results are close - lead is Mar 3-4
18:13:00 <pfps> sandro: probably chairs will decide
18:13:05 <pfps> topic: LC comments
18:13:11 <pfps> sandro: none yet
18:13:21 <pfps> sandro: Ian has a page for coordination
18:13:43 <pfps> sandro: if there are not too many comments we'll just use this wiki page
18:13:48 <msmith> q+
18:13:48 <pfps> topic: test cases
18:13:54 <MarkusK_> q+
18:13:58 <dlm> dlm has joined #owl
18:14:04 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Test_Queue
18:14:18 <pfps> msmith: there are some test cases in proper format
18:14:41 <pfps> msmith: email asking for people to check them out was just sent
18:14:50 <pfps> msmith: could be approved next week
18:15:01 <MarkusK_> q+ to report on test case licensing issues
18:15:14 <pfps> msmith: results for Pellet and Hermit are included
18:15:29 <pfps> sandro: plan for gathering test results where others drive?
18:15:41 <pfps> msmith: still needs to be ironed out
18:16:00 <pfps> msmith: oracle has some suggestions
18:16:16 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aagg
18:16:27 <sandro> ack MarkusK_ 
18:16:27 <Zakim> MarkusK_, you wanted to report on test case licensing issues
18:16:31 <pfps> sandro: Webont had a way of incorporating external results
18:16:35 <sandro> ack msmith 
18:17:24 <pfps> markus: only issue is that publicly contributed test cases need a release to agree to W3C licensing stuff
18:17:36 <pfps> sandro: location of test repository?
18:17:53 <pfps> markus: not determined yet, but any place is OK (in W3C space)
18:18:03 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/test
18:18:14 <pfps> sandro: what about the above spot?
18:18:20 <pfps> markus: looks OK
18:18:41 <msmith> sounds good
18:18:42 <pfps> sandro: we can use CVS  for upload
18:18:49 <bijan> What's the license on the suite?
18:18:57 <bijan> Can one create derived works?
18:19:19 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/Project/CVSdoc/
18:19:31 <MarkusK_> q+ to answer bijan
18:19:32 <pfps> sandro: documentation at above link
18:19:51 <pfps> sandro: I need an SSH public key to set up access
18:19:56 <msmith> yes, I will email you an ssh key
18:20:08 <pfps> sandro: Markus and Mike to send PK
18:20:10 <sandro> ack MarkusK_ 
18:20:10 <Zakim> MarkusK_, you wanted to answer bijan
18:20:29 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:20:29 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:20:31 <bijan> q+
18:20:40 <pfps> markus: derived works are allowed for tests, we'll use a creative commons license
18:20:52 <MarkusK_> http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases.html
18:21:02 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:21:04 <pfps> markus: W3C will control entire test suite
18:21:22 <pfps> bijan: OK, I was worried about the W3C document liclense, which would not have been suitable
18:21:32 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:21:32 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:21:32 <MarkusK_> My current draft license conditions are: http://km.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/projects/owltests/index.php/OWL_Test_Cases:Copyrights
18:21:41 <pfps> bijan: I want to use the test suite and modify it for other purposes
18:21:54 <pfps> topic: plans for non-LC documents
18:22:23 <bijan> a 3-clause BSD License for software development, bugtracking, and other applications that do not require assertions of performance to the public or implied claims of conformance to a W3C Specification. See summary of 3-clause BSD License.
18:22:23 <bijan> a W3C Test Suite License for an Authoritative W3C Test Suite or when claims of performance with respect to a specification are required. See summary of W3C Test Suite License.
18:22:26 <pfps> sandro: hard to make decision on REC-track today because no chairs
18:22:35 <pfps> sandro: status checks
18:22:42 <pfps> sandro: QRG?
18:23:06 <pfps> dlm: there are some things that still need to be done, and they will be done
18:23:08 <baojie> To do list:
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create inline hyperlinks to Syntax
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create hyperlinks to Direct Semantics and RDF-Based Semantics once the anchors in those documents are ready
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Complete inline hyperlinks to Primer when the missing ones are ready
18:23:08 <baojie>     * Create inline hyperlinks to New Features and Rationale
18:23:09 <baojie>     * Make a new 2-page print version.
18:23:11 <baojie>     * Design a similar guide for profiles with 1 page print version. 
18:23:20 <pfps> dlm: need tags in other documents
18:23:28 <bijan> Nope
18:23:28 <pfps> sandro: go ahead and add tags
18:23:37 <bijan> We might derive tags from heading
18:23:39 <pfps> pfps: need to make *sure* no duplicates!
18:23:42 <bijan> q+
18:23:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:23:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:23:54 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:24:03 <pfps> pfps: can use W3C tools to check for dups
18:24:14 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
18:24:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted),
18:24:17 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg
18:24:23 <pfps> bijan: can this be done automatically?
18:24:46 <bmotik> q+
18:24:51 <pfps> baojie: most links are there at least in Syntax and ???
18:24:58 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:24:58 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:24:58 <sandro> ack bmotik 
18:25:01 <pfps> baojie: semantics and ??? need more tags
18:25:14 <sandro> s/???/rdf-based semantics/
18:25:36 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:25:36 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:25:38 <pfps> bmotik: QRG doesn't reflect last set of changes (annotations)
18:25:43 <sandro> bmotik: annotation assertions don't seem to have made it into QRG
18:26:01 <pfps> baojie: which?
18:26:07 <sandro> q?
18:26:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:26:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:26:28 <pfps> baojie: will check and change as necessary
18:26:51 <sandro> action: baojie update QRG for annotation assertions
18:26:51 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - baojie
18:26:55 <sandro> action: jie update QRG for annotation assertions
18:26:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-258 - Update QRG for annotation assertions [on Jie Bao - due 2008-12-17].
18:27:09 <bmotik> q+
18:27:36 <pfps> baojie: guide for profiles?
18:27:56 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:27:56 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:27:56 <sandro> ack baojie 
18:28:14 <pfps> bmotik: what about reviewing?
18:28:22 <bijan> I'm generally against proliferation of documents at this stage
18:28:27 <pfps> sandro: was reviewed for FPWD, needs to be done for next publication
18:28:37 <pfps> bmotik: I'll review for next publication
18:28:48 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:28:48 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:28:54 <pfps> ACTION: bmotik review next version of QRG
18:28:54 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik
18:29:07 <pfps> ACTION: motik review next version of QRG
18:29:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-259 - Review next version of QRG [on Boris Motik - due 2008-12-17].
18:29:34 <pfps> sandro: next publication date for QRG
18:29:39 <bmotik> My user name is bmotik2. However, I'd prefer not taking an action now (because I can't work it off immediately).
18:29:44 <bijan> q+
18:29:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:29:50 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:29:53 <pfps> sandro: probably wait until end of LC
18:30:23 <pfps> pfps:  I'll adjust the action due date to Feb (if this is not OK, you could just kill the item)
18:30:23 <bmotik> We can add my name to the Review list, and then when we get to next publication date, I'll be happy to take the action
18:30:33 <pfps> pfps: OK that works
18:30:55 <bmotik> -q
18:31:17 <pfps> bijan: we can generate PDF using princeXML and get hyperlinks for "free"
18:31:25 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:31:44 <pfps> bijan: next version of primer will be ready early Jan 2009
18:32:00 <pfps> bijan: a WD publication in Jan would be fine
18:32:08 <dlmcg1> dlmcg1 has joined #owl
18:32:23 <pfps> sandro: princeXML works great - W3C has a real license and can "push the button"
18:32:50 <pfps> dlm: HTML version is longer than 2 pages - we want PDF to be 2 pages
18:33:05 <pfps> bijan: why? I have CSS for the compact layout
18:33:09 <sandro> q?
18:33:31 <pfps> dlm: I haven't looked at this - let's check it out offline
18:33:40 <pfps> bijan: we can really make it work
18:33:55 <pfps> baojie: current document is longer so care is needed
18:34:20 <pfps> bijan: if content is the same then the 2-page PDF design can be generated automagically using CSS
18:34:33 <pfps> sandro: may require some "polishing"
18:34:49 <pfps> sandro: new features and rationale
18:34:54 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:34:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Achille (muted), Sandro, bmotik (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, clu (muted), baojie, MarkusK_, msmith, Zhe, uli (muted), JeffP, schneid (muted),
18:34:57 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau (muted), +1.518.276.aagg
18:35:00 <bijan> q+
18:35:06 <pfps> sandro: Christine has had a power failure so  she can't be here
18:35:08 <bmotik> I've added a note about my review of the Quick Reference to http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing; I'm now waiting for chairs to "ping me"
18:35:14 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:35:14 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:35:15 <sandro> zakim, aagg is dlm
18:35:16 <Zakim> +dlm; got it
18:35:45 <pfps> bijan: I gave feedback, including demo of appendix, but I have no feedback
18:35:57 <pfps> bijan: I think that there is some stuff that should be removed 
18:36:08 <pfps> bijan: we should schedule some time for discussion
18:36:24 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
18:36:24 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24
18:36:29 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:36:29 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:36:47 <sandro> action: sandro make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24
18:36:47 <pfps> zakim, who is talking?
18:36:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-260 - Make sure chairs know about document review/suggestion points at http://www.w3.org/2008/12/10-owl-irc#T18-36-24 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2008-12-17].
18:36:59 <Zakim> pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (50%), dlm (39%)
18:37:06 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:37:06 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
18:37:40 <sandro> bijan: still planning to get Primer feature-complete over winter break
18:37:42 <pfps> bijan: primer will be upgraded by mid-Jan
18:38:40 <pfps> sandro: next publication? self-standing or with a bunch of other stuff
18:38:45 <pfps> bijan: arguments either way
18:39:03 <pfps> sandro: primer alone may entice attention and reviews
18:39:30 <pfps> bijan: reasonable publication time would be early Jan - to allow time before end of LC
18:39:36 <pfps> sandro: yes
18:39:41 <sandro> q?
18:39:41 <pfps> bijan: I'll give it a shot
18:39:48 <pfps> ack bijan
18:40:15 <pfps> sandro: should be able to line up a reviewer nowish - volunteers?
18:40:24 <uli> i would
18:40:26 <bmotik> I can do a review of the Primer.
18:40:36 <bmotik> q+
18:40:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:40:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:40:39 <bijan> zakim, mute me
18:40:40 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
18:40:41 <sandro> ack bmotik 
18:41:10 <uli> good point, Boris
18:41:21 <pfps> bmotik: IJCAI deadline is early Jan (12?) which knocks out 7-12
18:41:40 <uli> me too
18:41:52 <pfps> sandro: decision should be made on 7 Jan, so reviews need to be done by then
18:41:53 <uli> difficult for me
18:42:01 <pfps> bmotik: review before then would be acceptable
18:42:11 <uli> before christmas :(
18:42:21 <pfps> sandro: when does the primer need to be done?
18:42:26 <uli> oi
18:42:30 <pfps> bmotik: by 1 Jan
18:42:35 <bijan> Sure
18:42:40 <pfps> sandro: bijan - does that work?
18:42:42 <bijan> And I'll am for before xmas for uli
18:42:45 <bijan> aim
18:42:45 <pfps> bijan: sure
18:42:54 <sandro> proposed schedule:    bijan done by Jan 1, Uli and Boris reviews by Jan 6, WG publication decision Jan 7.
18:43:01 <bmotik> +1
18:43:07 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:43:07 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
18:44:00 <pfps> uli: I will be moving so I can't promise a review
18:44:11 <sandro> Understanding the Boris will be travelling on Jan 7, and Uli will be moving and off-line until Jan 8.
18:44:16 <pfps> uli: by jan 7 (8th is OK)
18:44:27 <bijan> Could probably get a review from Matthew Horridge
18:44:39 <uli> yes
18:44:39 <bijan> Dunno
18:44:47 <pfps> pfps: Matthew is not in the WG
18:44:48 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:44:48 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:44:48 <bijan> He's author of a document
18:44:55 <bijan> We canmake hima  member pretty easily
18:45:17 <uli> ok
18:45:18 <bijan> Or he can fake uli's email :)
18:45:37 <uli> me neither
18:45:40 <pfps> sandro: can we get Matthew to sign up for a review (and show up on the 7th)
18:46:02 <bijan> q+
18:46:09 <pfps> sandro: repairs section?
18:46:10 <sandro> ack bijan 
18:46:11 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:46:14 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:46:34 <pfps> bijan: this was to add a section to primer on repairs
18:46:40 <bmotik> +1 to bijan
18:46:45 <pfps> bijan:  I don't find this suitable for the primer
18:47:08 <pfps> bijan: primer is not dumping spot for things that don't fit elsewhere
18:47:25 <pfps> bijan: primer is not normative so putting repairs there doesn't gain anything
18:47:30 <pfps> bmotik: agree
18:47:46 <pfps> sandro: no one has argued for this
18:47:48 <sandro> no one arguing in favor of repairs in Primer
18:47:54 <sandro> (here, today.)
18:47:59 <bijan> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-12-03#Open_items
18:48:08 <pfps> bmotik: Alan was pushing this
18:48:11 <bijan> Noep
18:48:23 <pfps> sandro: Manchester syntax?
18:49:00 <sandro> pfps: I believe MS is done, modulo any error reports we get
18:49:04 <pfps> pfps: I think that it is done, and consistent with current state of primary documents
18:49:16 <pfps> sandro: datarange extension
18:49:16 <bijan> Same schedule as before
18:49:21 <bijan> We plan for something by jan
18:49:22 <bijan> uyes
18:49:34 <bijan> Yes please
18:49:36 <pfps> sandro: publication timing?
18:49:47 <pfps> bijan: wait for next chunk of publications
18:49:48 <sandro> publication -- same time as next big round
18:50:12 <pfps> sandro: rec-track status - no decision, just discussion
18:50:24 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:50:24 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:51:00 <baojie> +baojie
18:51:12 <pfps> bijan: I prefer notes, but will acceed to rec track, so long as everything has same status
18:51:27 <baojie> +q
18:51:29 <sandro> ack baojie 
18:52:03 <dlmcg1> +q
18:52:12 <pfps> baojie: QRG, Primer, and ??? should be rec track
18:52:25 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:27 <pfps> sandro: let's only take note arguments
18:52:29 <pfps> q+
18:52:34 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:44 <sandro> ack dlmcg1 
18:52:46 <schneid> q+
18:52:47 <sandro> ack dlmcg
18:52:50 <sandro> ack pfps 
18:52:58 <pfps> pfps: I agree with Bijan
18:53:02 <sandro> pfps: I agree with Bijan in all his Revealed Glory
18:53:06 <Achille> +1 for rec trac as suggested by bijan
18:53:07 <sandro> pfps: I agree with Bijan in all His Revealed Glory
18:53:10 <uli> which are the ???
18:53:14 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
18:53:14 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
18:53:15 <sandro> ack schneid 
18:53:19 <uli> just to ensure that we don't agree too soon
18:53:29 <sandro> schneid: I'd also prefer to have them all rec track.
18:53:36 <pfps> schneid: prefer rec track, but only slightly
18:53:46 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:53:46 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:53:52 <uli> q+
18:54:10 <sandro> PROPOSED: QRG, NFR, and Primer are all Rec Track
18:54:14 <pfps> q+
18:54:18 <sandro> ack uli 
18:54:20 <pfps> q-
18:54:22 <bmotik> +1
18:54:22 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:54:22 <Zakim> uli was not muted, uli
18:54:47 <pfps> yes, I'll update the ???s
18:55:20 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:55:20 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:55:32 <pfps> s/???/NFR/
18:55:39 <pfps> q+
18:56:04 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
18:56:04 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
18:56:39 <pfps> bijan: happy with just these three tied together
18:56:42 <sandro> PROPOSED: Quick Reference Guide, New Features and Rationale, Primer will all be Recommendation Track.   Not making any decision on Manchester Syntax or Data Range Extension at this point.
18:56:47 <Achille> +1
18:56:49 <pfps> +1
18:56:54 <pfps> pfps: +1
18:56:58 <schneid> +1
18:56:59 <bmotik> +1
18:57:02 <pfps> pfps: 0
18:57:05 <msmith> 0
18:57:06 <Zhe> 0
18:57:06 <bcuencagrau> 0
18:57:07 <JeffP> 0
18:57:07 <bijan> +1 but thinks that people should not argue after someone has graciously conceded already!
18:57:07 <baojie> +1
18:57:10 <dlmcg1> +1
18:57:10 <MarkusK_> 0
18:57:18 <uli> +1
18:57:24 <sandro> RESOLVED: Quick Reference Guide, New Features and Rationale, Primer will all be Recommendation Track.   Not making any decision on Manchester Syntax or Data Range Extension at this point.
18:57:27 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:57:27 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:58:02 <pfps> bijan: Manchester Syntax for next week
18:58:08 <pfps> topic: RIF coordination
18:58:10 <bijan> q+
18:58:21 <pfps> sandro: meeting tomorrow (noon EST, 5pm GMT)
18:58:26 <pfps> pfps: I'll be there
18:58:40 <pfps> sandro: agenda was sent out
18:58:58 <pfps> bijan: need to worry about timing
18:59:12 <pfps> sandro: acknowledged
18:59:15 <JeffP> q+
18:59:28 <pfps> sandro: coordination a while ago would have been better
18:59:54 <pfps> bijan: there may be other coordination issues besides RL datatypes
19:00:10 <pfps> bijan: I'll send out email 
19:00:12 <sandro> ack pfps 
19:00:14 <pfps> q-
19:00:18 <sandro> ack bijan 
19:00:18 <bijan> ack bijan
19:00:20 <sandro> ack JeffP 
19:00:22 <bijan> zakim, mute me
19:00:22 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
19:00:46 <pfps> jeff: similar issues - worry about scope of coordination
19:01:26 <pfps> sandro: scope had several influences
19:01:42 <bijan> Is rif planning a LC comment?
19:01:52 <pfps> sandro: RIF folks may have had larger concerns
19:02:20 <pfps> sandro: don't know about any LC comments - hopefully things can be figured out in advance
19:02:20 <sandro> q?
19:02:43 <pfps> topic: Features "at-risk"
19:03:17 <Zakim> +??P17
19:03:28 <pfps> pfps: My belief is that this is to remind us not to drop them.
19:03:31 <bmotik> No more issues, please!
19:03:45 <pfps> sandro: any comments?
19:03:54 <pfps> topic: any other business
19:03:59 <bmotik> Bye
19:04:01 <Zhe> thanks
19:04:01 <schneid> bye
19:04:02 <MarkusK_> bye
19:04:02 <Zakim> -msmith
19:04:03 <JeffP> thanks, bye
19:04:04 <uli> bye
19:04:06 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
19:04:07 <Zakim> -JeffP
19:04:07 <msmith> msmith has left #owl
19:04:08 <Zakim> -bmotik
19:04:09 <Zakim> -Zhe
19:04:11 <Zakim> -bijan
19:04:15 <Zakim> -uli
19:04:16 <Zakim> -Achille
19:04:19 <Zakim> -schneid
19:04:30 <Zakim> -??P17
19:04:31 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
19:04:40 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
19:04:42 <Zakim> -Sandro
19:04:46 <Zakim> -baojie
19:04:57 <Zakim> -clu
19:05:06 <Zakim> -dlm
19:05:08 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:05:09 <Zakim> Attendees were bijan, +1.914.421.aaaa, Achille, Sandro, bmotik, Peter_Patel-Schneider, +0494212186aabb, +1.518.276.aacc, clu, baojie, MarkusK_, +1.202.408.aadd, msmith, Zhe, uli,
19:05:11 <Zakim> ... +0122427aaff, JeffP, schneid, bcuencagrau, +1.518.276.aagg, dlm
19:05:27 <uli> uli has left #owl
19:06:41 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
19:06:47 <Zakim> +??P0
19:06:56 <Zakim> -??P0
19:06:57 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:06:57 <Zakim> Attendees were 
20:27:21 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
21:10:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #owl
<sandro> test extra line
<sandro> test extra line 2
<sandro> test extra line 3
<sandro> test extra line 4-1
<sandro> test extra line 4-2
<sandro> test extra line 4-3
<sandro> test extra line 4-4
<sandro> test extra line 4-5
<sandro> test extra line 4-6
<sandro> test extra line 4-7

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