Chatlog 2008-07-21 UFDTF

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00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, Elisa_Kendall, ewallace, Michel, Christine, Deborah
14:00:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #owl
14:00:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/21-owl-irc
14:00:18 <IanH> zakim, this is owl
14:00:18 <Zakim> IanH, I see SW_OWL()10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be owl".
14:00:25 <IanH> zakim, this will be owl
14:00:25 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:01:15 <Zakim> SW_OWL()10:00AM has now started
14:01:16 <Zakim> +Vipul_Kashyap
14:02:02 <Zakim> +??P12
14:02:13 <IanH> zakim, ??P12 is IanH
14:02:13 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
14:02:23 <Elisa> Elisa has joined #owl
14:02:24 <Zakim> +??P13
14:02:34 <vipul> vipul has joined #owl
14:03:13 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
14:04:08 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
14:04:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13, Elisa_Kendall
14:04:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see vipul, Elisa, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot
14:04:34 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
14:05:14 <Deborah> Deborah has joined #owl
14:05:37 <IanH> ScribeNick: IanH
14:06:01 <Zakim> +Deborah
14:06:09 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
14:06:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13 (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, Deborah
14:06:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see Deborah, vipul, Elisa, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot
14:08:00 <IanH> topic: Review Previous Minutes (14 July)
14:08:00 <ewallace> minutes look fine
14:08:02 <michel> michel has joined #owl
14:08:16 <IanH> RESOLVED: Accept previous minutes
14:08:50 <Zakim> +??P20
14:08:54 <IanH> topic: Quick Start document
14:09:03 <michel> Zakim, ??P20 is michel
14:09:03 <Zakim> +michel; got it
14:09:04 <IanH> Ian: progress
14:09:11 <Elisa> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UFDTF
14:09:54 <Deborah> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Quick_Reference_Guide
14:10:27 <IanH> Elisa: Made some progress; some issues have arisen
14:11:11 <IanH> Elisa: Structure follows syntax doc
14:12:19 <IanH> ... some issues w.r.t. annotations due to lack of links
14:13:21 <IanH> ... needs relevant tags in syntax document
14:15:40 <IanH> ... e.g., tag for Declaration to enable a jump straight to that point in Syntax
14:18:45 <IanH> ... e.g., owl:deprecated
14:20:38 <IanH> ... not sure if links to Primer are needed
14:21:51 <IanH> Elisa: what about the structure?
14:22:01 <Deborah> one portion of our target audience is the people who use  http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-owl-features-20040210/#s2 in the owl 1 overview
14:22:08 <IanH> IanH: Looks OK, but I'm not the target audience
14:23:39 <IanH> Deborah: would like 2 page reference card, but this might be a squeeze
14:23:50 <IanH> Evan: need reviewers from outside WG
14:25:10 <IanH> IanH: Let Boris know what tags you need
14:25:16 <IanH> Elisa: Yes
14:25:37 <IanH> Deborah: will link to examples in Primer
14:26:50 <IanH> IanH: examples here will make it too long; link to primer will be better
14:27:03 <IanH> Elisa: can provide link in 4th column
14:27:27 <IanH> Deborah: and too time consuming
14:29:13 <IanH> IanH: maybe structure is back to front for this audience?
14:29:24 <ewallace> I agree that quickstart should be factored differently
14:29:36 <ewallace> ... then Syntax doc
14:30:00 <IanH> Elisa: agree, but had to start with some ordering
14:30:26 <IanH> Deborah: figured that it would be least contentious
14:31:17 <IanH> IanH: you have a lot of leeway
14:32:16 <IanH> IanH: does it need to be fully comprehensive?
14:32:28 <ewallace> might be able to leave out datacomplementOf
14:32:36 <IanH> Deborah: was benefit to that in OWL overview
14:33:05 <IanH> Elisa: perhaps go back to ordering in OWL overview
14:34:38 <cgolbrei> cgolbrei has joined #owl
14:34:55 <IanH> IanH: maybe only provide list of pointers for "complicated stuff"
14:35:23 <IanH> Evan: too early to know about all this stuff -- let's see how it goes
14:35:45 <IanH> Elisa: test audience at NIST?
14:36:03 <IanH> Evan: yes; guess you and Deb also have customers
14:37:07 <IanH> IanH: Reasonably clear how to go forward
14:37:44 <michel> +q
14:38:14 <ewallace> michel is on the queue
14:38:49 <IanH> IanH: send email to the list now pointing people at draft
14:39:04 <IanH> ... let them know it is work in progress and to look later in the week for more stuff
14:39:22 <IanH> ... Will reiterate this message on Wednesday
14:39:50 <IanH> Michel: likes reference card format
14:39:56 <Deborah> michel likes the language synopsis of the 1.0 document  and likes the reference card format
14:40:11 <IanH> Elisa: will produce such a thing and link to it from top of this document
14:40:44 <IanH> Michel: likes brief description after names of entities -- this is very useful
14:42:29 <michel> having both would be nice 
14:42:44 <michel> (links to syntax and primer, that is)
14:42:50 <IanH> Deborah: links to both Primer and Ref (syntax) will be good
14:44:05 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
14:44:10 <IanH> topic: Use Case and Requirements document
14:44:25 <ewallace> frozen version of reqs doc
14:44:31 <ewallace> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/
14:45:16 <IanH> Vipul: two structures -- mine and Christine's
14:45:26 <IanH> ... need to think about users of OWL 2
14:45:40 <IanH> ... bring out issues related to applications and users
14:46:30 <IanH> ... agreed with Deb that common threads run through many applications
14:46:44 <cgolbrei> made revisions today, last version is still at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
14:47:49 <ewallace> it was frozen this morning
14:48:07 <cgolbrei> added deb ucs 
14:48:16 <IanH> Deborah: includes my updates and comments from Christine
14:49:10 <cgolbrei> is it possible to take the update including deb's ucs ?
14:49:47 <michel> there is a discussion link
14:49:54 <IanH> IanH: send email pointing to editors draft for review
14:50:09 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
14:50:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, ??P13, Evan_Wallace, Deborah, michel
14:50:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see cgolbrei, michel, Deborah, vipul, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ewallace, trackbot
14:50:30 <IanH> zakim, ??P13 is cgolbei
14:50:30 <Zakim> +cgolbei; got it
14:50:33 <ewallace> echo
14:50:46 <IanH> Heavy breathing!
14:51:46 <vipul> Which version is being frozen ? http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=RequirementsDraftForReview
14:51:51 <vipul> Is that the one?
14:51:58 <ewallace> Yes
14:52:39 <IanH> Christine: may be some outdated references in current document
14:52:49 <vipul> q+
14:54:58 <cgolbrei> +q
14:55:10 <IanH> vipul: link to discussion page would be useful
14:55:22 <IanH> ... may need more time at F2F
14:55:46 <ewallace> This will be reviewed http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/
14:56:05 <ewallace> produced from http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=RequirementsDraftForReview
14:56:09 <IanH> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/draft/ED-owl2-requirements-20080721/
14:57:31 <IanH> Christine: worthwhile to get frozen version updated
14:58:35 <IanH> Evan: will try to get new frozen version to reflect latest updates
14:59:04 <michel> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
14:59:14 <michel> contains 19 use cases
14:59:14 <cgolbrei> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
14:59:27 <Deborah> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
14:59:48 <cgolbrei> this is the last  updated
15:00:33 <IanH> Evan: I didn't tell everyone which version we are working from
15:00:42 <IanH> ... so we have several versions :-(
15:01:35 <Deborah> the other one i updated over the weekend was  http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/UseCasesMotivatedByDomainsAndApplications
15:01:57 <cgolbrei> all sections are updated and merged in http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
15:02:05 <Deborah> i agree
15:02:22 <IanH> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
15:02:38 <ewallace> Not sure how to do that
15:03:24 <IanH> IanH: need to update ReqDraft and make new editors draft
15:05:00 <IanH> IanH: Vipul then Christine then Deb update RequirementsDraft
15:05:40 <IanH> IanH: Then ask Sandro to create new editors' draft
15:07:04 <IanH> IanH: Order of play should be: Christine, Vipul then Deb
15:07:16 <ewallace> we are already working from Christine's latest version, Yes?
15:07:52 <IanH> IanH: yes, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
15:08:38 <ewallace> In one hour Vipul will have exclusive write permission to update
15:08:47 <ewallace> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/RequirementsDraft
15:10:29 <cgolbrei> on his section
15:10:52 <ewallace> on the whole document
15:11:07 <Deborah> later the question is whether we include requirements that are not expected to be met by owl 2.0 (such as vsto's need for defaults).
15:11:16 <IanH> Christine: when can we continue work?
15:11:29 <IanH> IanH: After editors' draft
15:12:03 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
15:12:04 <Zakim> -Vipul_Kashyap
15:12:08 <Zakim> -cgolbei
15:12:09 <Zakim> -Deborah
15:12:14 <Zakim> -michel
15:12:16 <Zakim> -IanH
15:12:17 <Zakim> SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended
15:12:19 <Zakim> Attendees were Vipul_Kashyap, IanH, Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, Deborah, michel, cgolbei
15:12:50 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public