Chatlog 2008-01-14

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00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), Michael Schneider (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bernardo (muted), uli (muted), Alan Ruttenberg, Mike Smith, Christine
00:00:00 <scribenick> REGRETS: Elisa
17:55:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #owl
17:55:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/01/14-owl-irc
17:55:12 <ewallace> ewallace has joined #owl
17:55:28 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2009.01.14/Agenda
17:55:41 <IanH> Zakim, this will be owlwg
17:55:41 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
17:56:09 <IanH> ScribeNick: Achille Fokoue
17:56:25 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public
17:58:05 <schneid> schneid has joined #owl
17:58:30 <bmotik> bmotik has joined #owl
17:59:04 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started
17:59:11 <Zakim> + +0186528aaaa
17:59:12 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
17:59:12 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
17:59:13 <Zakim> +Ivan
17:59:15 <bmotik> Zakim, this will be OWL
17:59:15 <Zakim> ok, bmotik, I see SW_OWL()1:00PM already started
17:59:37 <MarkusK_> MarkusK_ has joined #owl
17:59:54 <bmotik> Zakim, aaaa is me
17:59:54 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
18:00:08 <Zakim> +IanH
18:00:09 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:00:09 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:00:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
18:00:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH
18:00:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:00:37 <Zhe> Zhe has joined #owl
18:01:15 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
18:01:17 <Achille> Achille has joined #owl
18:01:17 <bernardo> bernardo has joined #owl
18:01:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
18:01:32 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aabb is me
18:01:32 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
18:01:35 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
18:01:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe, [IPcaller]
18:01:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see bernardo, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:01:37 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
18:01:37 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
18:01:51 <schneid> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
18:01:51 <Zakim> +schneid; got it
18:01:52 <Zakim> +[IBM]
18:02:05 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:02:05 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:02:07 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc
18:02:08 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is me
18:02:08 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
18:02:14 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
18:02:14 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
18:02:21 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
18:02:30 <IanH> ScribeNick:  Achille
18:02:31 <Achille> ScribeNick: Achille
18:02:32 <baojie> baojie has joined #owl
18:02:44 <Zakim> +??P15
18:02:49 <uli> uli has joined #owl
18:02:50 <Zakim> +??P12
18:02:54 <bernardo> Zakim, ??P12 is me
18:02:54 <Zakim> +bernardo; got it
18:03:04 <bernardo> Zakim, mute me
18:03:04 <Zakim> bernardo should now be muted
18:03:11 <Zakim> +??P16
18:03:19 <uli> zakim, ??P16 is me
18:03:19 <Zakim> +uli; got it
18:03:24 <baojie> Zakim, who is on the phone
18:03:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', baojie
18:03:37 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
18:03:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid, Achille, +1.518.276.aacc, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bernardo (muted), uli
18:03:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, baojie, bernardo, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:03:42 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:03:42 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:03:45 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:03:45 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:03:49 <baojie> Zakim, aacc is baojie
18:03:49 <Zakim> +baojie; got it
18:03:51 <ivan> scribenick: Achille
18:03:51 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Rees
18:03:59 <ivan> scribe: Achille
18:04:34 <IanH> zakim, aacc is baojie
18:04:34 <Zakim> sorry, IanH, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
18:04:46 <msmith> msmith has joined #owl
18:04:53 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
18:04:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bernardo (muted), uli (muted), Jonathan_Rees
18:04:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see msmith, uli, baojie, bernardo, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:05:05 <alanr> alanr has joined #owl
18:05:23 <Achille> topic: Agenda amendments? 
18:05:24 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
18:05:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bernardo (muted), uli (muted), Jonathan_Rees
18:05:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bernardo, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:05:32 <Zakim> +msmith
18:05:36 <Achille> ian : no agenda amendments
18:05:41 <alanr> zakim, Jonathan_Rees is alanr
18:05:41 <Zakim> +alanr; got it
18:05:49 <Achille> topic: Accept Previous Minutes (07 January)
18:05:59 <alanr> zakim, mute me
18:05:59 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
18:06:00 <Achille> ian: they are ok according to me
18:06:22 <Achille> PROPOSED: Accept Previous Minutes (07 January)
18:06:38 <Achille> RESOLVED: Accept Previous Minutes (07 January) 
18:06:53 <Achille> topic: Pending Review Actions
18:07:08 <Achille> subtopic: Action 250 Send mime-type registrations in to IETF when we do last-call publications / Sandro Hawke 
18:07:27 <schneid> I remember some mail this week from IETF people?
18:07:34 <Achille> ian: the applications have been made and it is ongoing 
18:07:59 <Achille> subtopic: Action 261 
18:08:21 <Achille> ianh: Peter has done his part. we are waiting for xml schema wg response
18:08:44 <Achille> topic: Due and overdue Actions 
18:08:45 <alanr> tyes
18:08:46 <alanr> yes
18:08:52 <alanr> sorry - muted
18:09:09 <Achille> ianh: Action 262 done!
18:09:35 <Achille> topic: Soliciting reviews of and/or comments on LC documents 
18:09:48 <Achille> ianh: we did not receive a lot of comments
18:09:57 <Achille> ... this should be a cause for concerns
18:10:02 <Achille> at this point
18:10:03 <Zhe> q+
18:10:20 <IanH> q?
18:10:20 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:10:21 <Zakim> uli was already muted, uli
18:10:21 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me
18:10:21 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted
18:10:29 <Achille> ivan: i agree with ian concerns
18:10:42 <Achille> zhe: Oracle is sending some comments in a few days
18:11:16 <Achille> ... it is hard to get further comments given the size of the spec and the background needed to understand it
18:11:40 <ivan> q+
18:11:43 <ivan> ack Zhe
18:11:49 <Achille> ianh: important to get comments from companies and organizations outside the working group
18:11:54 <IanH> ack zhe
18:11:57 <IanH> ack ivan
18:12:03 <Zhe> zakim, mute me
18:12:03 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted
18:12:22 <alanr> I will do so again on the lists that I sent to.
18:12:25 <Achille> ivan: need for an explicit call from the chair might have some positive effect
18:12:45 <Achille> ianh: yes we will repeat the call for comment that we did initially
18:12:45 <alanr> will do
18:12:56 <Achille> ivan: great. cosign it with alan
18:13:09 <Achille> ianh: personnal solicitation is even better 
18:13:52 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
18:13:52 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
18:13:55 <Achille> ivan: people with influencial blogs might also help by posting on their bogs
18:14:02 <Achille> ... example Alan?
18:14:20 <msmith> yes, it does
18:14:23 <Achille> ianh: yes anybody with a blog
18:14:33 <msmith> yes
18:14:34 <Achille> alanr: example Clark & Parsia
18:14:36 <msmith> will pas it on
18:14:45 <alanr> zakim, mute me
18:14:45 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
18:15:01 <Achille> ianh: Alan and I will send a final reminder on the mailing lists
18:15:12 <Achille> ... people should write to their blog
18:15:23 <Achille> ... personal solicitation is also  recommended
18:15:35 <Achille> ianh: other ideas?
18:15:50 <Achille> topic: F2F5 (23-24 February, 2009) 
18:16:33 <Achille> ianh: only 6 participants confirmed and 4 remote participants confirmed
18:16:51 <Achille> topic: Last Call Comments 
18:17:10 <Achille> ianh: let's discuss Alan Rector's comment
18:17:11 <alanr> but this time to the official list
18:17:17 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
18:17:17 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
18:17:21 <Zakim> + +1.781.271.aadd
18:17:24 <uli> i didn't see 2...
18:17:25 <msmith> I agree, it seemed close to the same
18:17:30 <Achille> ianh: is the latest version of the comment diff from the first one?
18:17:39 <Achille> alanr: the same 
18:17:40 <Zhe> I just updated the F2f5, I will join.
18:17:54 <alanr> great, Zhe!
18:17:57 <Achille> ... just added to the official list
18:18:19 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
18:18:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bernardo (muted), uli (muted), alanr, msmith, +1.781.271.aadd
18:18:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bernardo, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:19:14 <IanH> Who called in from USA area code 781?
18:19:24 <Achille> alanr: i have proposed a solution to the comment at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1
18:19:31 <uli> what would the changes be?
18:19:35 <Achille> .. it requires changes on our side
18:20:11 <ivan> q+
18:20:18 <IanH> q?
18:21:09 <Achille> ivan: warning for ourself: a major technical change will require a new LC
18:21:23 <uli> q+
18:21:31 <IanH> ack ivan
18:21:42 <Achille> ianh: the change suggested by Alan will require a new LC
18:21:45 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:21:45 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
18:21:45 <Achille> ivan: yes
18:21:45 <IanH> ack uli
18:22:03 <IanH> q?
18:22:12 <Achille> uli: what will be the required change?
18:22:24 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1
18:22:30 <Achille> alanr: hte proposed serialization is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/LC_Responses/ALR1
18:22:35 <Achille> ... change the mapping
18:22:43 <bmotik> q+
18:23:20 <IanH> q?
18:23:27 <Joanne> Joanne has joined #owl
18:23:42 <Achille> uli: during parsing u will need to make sure that they survive the parsingf
18:24:03 <IanH> q?
18:24:13 <Achille> uli: it sounds complicated
18:24:37 <Achille> alanr: the declaration for classes have no semantic impacts
18:24:49 <Achille> s/declaration/declarations
18:25:03 <IanH> q?
18:25:26 <Achille> uli: the parser will have to make the class expression are correct according to the syntax
18:25:54 <Achille> s/to make/to make sure that /
18:25:59 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
18:25:59 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
18:26:08 <IanH> ack bmotik
18:26:18 <uli> zakim, mute me
18:26:18 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
18:28:01 <alanr> q+
18:28:05 <IanH> q?
18:28:13 <Achille> bmotik: not a good idea to put all these managarial information in annotation
18:28:29 <Achille> s/these/this
18:28:47 <IanH> ack alanr
18:28:58 <Achille> bmotik: not important from an interoperability perspective
18:28:59 <bmotik> q+
18:29:04 <uli> q+
18:29:14 <uli> q-
18:29:28 <IanH> ack bmotik
18:29:30 <Achille> alanr: we cannot say to such a world-class expert in modeling that his view on modeling is wrong
18:29:39 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
18:29:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik, Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK_, bernardo (muted), uli (muted), alanr, msmith, +1.781.271.aadd
18:29:42 <uli> q+
18:29:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Joanne, alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bernardo, Achille, Zhe, MarkusK_, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:29:45 <uli> q-
18:29:47 <Achille> bmotik: annotations are not about modeling
18:29:53 <IanH> q?
18:30:01 <Achille> ... use owl-dl for modeling
18:30:21 <Achille> ... the list of his requirement has nothing to do with modeling
18:30:28 <IanH> q?
18:30:42 <uli> ...but we can say even to world-leading expert that, given that the complications incurred by his workaround and (!) the fact that it will still be a work-around (and not a proper fix), this isn't worth it
18:30:52 <Achille> ianh: should we continue this discussion on email
18:31:19 <alanr> uli: Agree. Need a coherent explanation of what the complications are to support such.
18:31:19 <bmotik> q+
18:31:23 <IanH> q?
18:31:42 <IanH> ack bmotik
18:31:46 <Achille> ... people should look at Alanr's proposal and clarify the technical issues/difficulties
18:31:59 <msmith> q+
18:32:05 <Achille> bmotik: those issues were already discussed at the last F2F
18:32:12 <alanr> q+
18:32:19 <msmith> q-
18:32:23 <IanH> q?
18:32:40 <Achille> ianh: i agree, but could someone send an email about the issues
18:32:48 <IanH> q?
18:32:51 <IanH> ack alanr
18:32:59 <Achille> ... example: summary or pointer to the minutes of the last F2F
18:33:15 <IanH> q?
18:33:44 <Achille> alanr: i would like a discussion about the alternative solutions
18:33:55 <alanr> zakim, mute me
18:33:55 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
18:34:19 <Achille> ianh: how do we deal with internal LC comments?
18:34:42 <ivan> q+
18:34:50 <IanH> ack ivan
18:34:51 <Achille> ... should they be treated the exact same way as internal?
18:35:04 <Achille> s/internal/external
18:35:42 <Achille> ivan: the wiki page should contain all the comments (internal or  external) 
18:35:59 <Achille> ... because the wiki will be used to track the changes to the spec
18:36:03 <IanH> q?
18:36:10 <alanr> ok by me
18:36:19 <schneid> +1
18:37:06 <IanH> q?
18:37:30 <IanH> q?
18:38:26 <IanH> q?
18:39:00 <Achille> ianh: I will send an email for making and dealing with WG internal comments on  LC documents 
18:39:44 <IanH> q?
18:39:46 <msmith> q+
18:39:46 <ivan> action to IanH: send a mail to the group clarifying the deealing with WG internal comments on LC documents
18:39:46 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
18:39:56 <IanH> ack msmith
18:39:58 <Achille> action: ianh to send an email to clarify how to make and deal with WG comments on LC documents
18:39:58 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ianh
18:40:19 <IanH> q?
18:40:47 <IanH> q?
18:41:00 <Achille> topic: Comment from Tim Redmond 
18:41:02 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
18:41:02 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
18:41:07 <IanH> q?
18:41:30 <Achille> ianh: send a note about the discussion we had on import issues
18:42:10 <IanH> q?
18:42:16 <Achille> alanr: I will call him to help clarify his understanding
18:42:41 <Achille> ianh: i agree with alanr that he may not have fully understood the spec
18:42:49 <IanH> q?
18:42:53 <alanr> we agreed to disagree :)
18:42:53 <ivan> yes
18:43:49 <alanr> action: alanr to talk to tim redmond about his lc comment
18:43:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - alanr
18:43:59 <Achille> subtopic: Comment from Andy Seaborne 
18:44:11 <baojie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg//2009Jan/0025.html
18:44:13 <IanH> q?
18:44:19 <alanr> action: alanruttenberg to talk to tim redmond about his lc comment
18:44:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-264 - Talk to tim redmond about his lc comment [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2009-01-21].
18:44:31 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/b6b357670901140921j4be87090h76df1d20a00878d6@mail.gmail.com Baojie's answer
18:45:03 <IanH> q?
18:45:43 <Achille> baojie: my response is at http://www.w3.org/mid/b6b357670901140921j4be87090h76df1d20a00878d6@mail.gmail.com 
18:45:46 <IanH> q?
18:45:51 <ivan> q+
18:46:00 <IanH> ack ivan
18:46:48 <IanH> q?
18:46:57 <Achille> ivan: there is another comment from Andy about RDF taking over some datatypes
18:47:09 <IanH> q?
18:47:13 <schneid> I agree that only an RDF working group may make such a statement
18:47:27 <Achille> ivan: i agree with Andy that we should not have such a statement in our spec about RDF working group
18:47:49 <baojie> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/InternationalizedStringSpec#Definition_of_the_rdf:text_Datatype
18:47:49 <ivan> The text in the rdf:text says: "In addition to the RIF and OWL specifications, this datatype is expected to supersede RDF's plain literals with language tags"
18:48:15 <Achille> ivan: this should not be part of our document
18:48:38 <IanH> q?
18:48:42 <Achille> ianh: should we discuss this issue further?
18:48:49 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
18:49:02 <Achille> ivan: baojie, did you also have a discussion with the RIF group?
18:49:07 <baojie> not yet
18:49:20 <IanH> q?
18:49:33 <Achille> ianh: let's add that in our todo list on the topic of coordination with RIF group
18:49:46 <Achille> topic": Test Cases 
18:49:56 <Achille> ianh: Problems with approved test cases? 
18:49:59 <Achille> ianh: no
18:50:30 <Achille> ianh: tests are coming in fast. it is not clear how to run the approval process
18:50:34 <alanr> q+
18:50:38 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
18:50:38 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
18:50:40 <IanH> q?
18:50:42 <Achille> ... does anyone look at the tests?
18:50:43 <IanH> ack alanr
18:50:58 <Achille> alanr: we should split the labor
18:51:14 <IanH> q?
18:51:19 <Achille> ... to make sure that every test is looked at by at least one person
18:52:39 <msmith> q+
18:52:41 <IanH> q?
18:52:46 <Achille> ianh: should be fine if all reasoners pass successfully a test
18:52:46 <IanH> ack msmith
18:53:20 <Achille> mike: if there is no table entry, it means that the test cannot be tested by a OWL-DL reasoner (OWL Full test)
18:53:45 <IanH> q?
18:54:03 <Achille> mike: there are also tests meant to illustrate the diff between DL and Full
18:54:16 <IanH> q?
18:54:19 <uli> q+
18:54:21 <schneid> q+
18:54:22 <uli> q-
18:54:28 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
18:54:28 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
18:54:29 <IanH> ack schneid
18:54:36 <MarkusK_> MarkusK_ has joined #owl
18:55:03 <IanH> q?
18:55:39 <msmith> I don't know of tests that touch these cases
18:55:40 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
18:55:44 <Achille> schneid:  they are some corner cases that will cease to be valid OWL DL
18:55:51 <Achille> s/they/there
18:55:58 <IanH> q?
18:56:05 <schneid> zakim, mute me
18:56:05 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
18:56:11 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
18:56:11 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
18:56:12 <IanH> q?
18:56:28 <alanr> that's one way
18:57:03 <alanr> I'll take 5
18:57:06 <Achille> ianh: how to process tests validation by reasoners?
18:57:09 <IanH> q?
18:57:14 <ivan> ok
18:57:15 <Zhe> I will take 5
18:57:26 <msmith> I've already eye-balled them all, so can do it again, but that won't help.
18:57:45 <Achille> no objection from me
18:58:02 <uli> ...why doesn't eye-balling help 
18:58:04 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
18:58:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Ivan, IanH, Zhe (muted), schneid (muted), Achille, baojie, Evan_Wallace, bernardo (muted), uli (muted), alanr, msmith, +1.781.271.aadd, MarkusK_
18:58:05 <uli> ?
18:58:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see MarkusK_, Joanne, alanr, msmith, uli, baojie, bernardo, Achille, Zhe, bmotik, schneid, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, ivan, sandro, trackbot
18:58:10 <Achille> ianh: anybody objects from receiving 5 testcases to evaluate
18:58:11 <MarkusK_> I missed the discussion -- I also will check some further tests
18:58:11 <ivan> zakim, aadd is Joanne
18:58:11 <Zakim> +Joanne; got it
18:58:20 <IanH> q?
18:58:23 <uli> zakim, unmute me
18:58:23 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
18:58:23 <Zhe> please let me know which 5 though :)
18:58:36 <schneid> schneid: there might be old test cases about the reserved vocabulary: OWL 2 DL is now more restrictive, cancelling out almost /all/ names from the rdf, rdfs, owl and xsd namespaces, where in OWL 1 many names were actually not disallowed. But these are corner cases.
18:58:42 <Christine> Christine has joined #owl
18:58:55 <msmith> yes.
18:59:02 <msmith> you can check my sanity :)
18:59:17 <Achille> ianh: i am not convince that it will help
18:59:39 <IanH> q?
18:59:43 <msmith> q+
18:59:56 <Achille> alanr: make sure that they are not OWL DL
19:00:07 <IanH> q?
19:00:16 <IanH> ack msmith
19:00:23 <Achille> ianh: if all three reasoners say there are not OWL DL. that should be good enough?
19:00:48 <Zakim> +??P24
19:01:12 <Christine> Zakim, ??P24 is Christine
19:01:12 <Zakim> +Christine; got it
19:01:28 <IanH> q?
19:01:35 <Achille> mike: the entries in the table are the ones that are now OWL DL.
19:02:02 <IanH> q?
19:02:06 <Achille> mike: the only one handle to the reasoner were the OWL DL examples
19:03:08 <msmith> will do shortly
19:03:52 <uli> http://owl.cs.manchester.ac.uk/converter/
19:03:54 <ivan> i do not have a practice in m'ter syntax, sorry
19:04:16 <msmith> q+
19:04:22 <IanH> q?
19:04:27 <IanH> ack msmith
19:04:43 <msmith> +5, this would be nice
19:04:58 <msmith> @alan regarding declarations http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax#Entity_Declarations_and_Typing
19:05:08 <uli> zakim, mute me
19:05:08 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
19:05:32 <Achille> ianh: we can use the converter as a species checker provided that the repair functionality is disable
19:05:51 <Achille> topic: Plans for non-LC documents 
19:05:55 <IanH> q?
19:06:53 <Achille> ianh: last week strawpoll on ManchesterSyntax  Rectrac was not conclusive
19:07:16 <Achille> ianh: has anyone changed his/her mind since then?
19:07:26 <ivan> q+
19:07:30 <Zhe> q+
19:07:55 <Achille> ... will anybody raise a formal objection if ManchesterSyntax  were to become a Rec Trac?
19:08:09 <Christine> +q
19:08:10 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me
19:08:10 <Zakim> Zhe should no longer be muted
19:08:11 <IanH> ack ivan
19:08:14 <Achille> s/will/would
19:08:48 <Achille> ivan: I do not think it is part of our scope 
19:08:52 <IanH> q?
19:09:05 <Achille> ... it was not part of the charter and we are taking too much here
19:09:11 <IanH> ack zhe
19:09:36 <uli> no, I don't think so
19:09:39 <Achille> Zhe: what are the consequences if it becomes a rectrac?
19:09:56 <Achille> ... vendors will be required to support it?
19:10:03 <Achille> ianh: no.
19:10:29 <Achille> ianh: it will be optional
19:10:52 <uli> q+
19:10:57 <IanH> q?
19:11:32 <Achille> ivan: it is syntax taken seriously by the group
19:12:09 <Achille> s/trac/track
19:12:15 <IanH> q?
19:12:19 <IanH> ack christine
19:13:16 <Achille> christine:  it will be first class syntax if it becomes rec track
19:13:20 <IanH> q?
19:14:14 <uli> zakim, unmute me
19:14:14 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted
19:14:14 <IanH> ack uli
19:14:27 <Achille> ... what are the argument in favor of it being rectrack.  
19:15:08 <Achille> uli: better visibility, interoperability between tools, and shared human readable syntax
19:16:14 <ivan> q+
19:16:29 <ivan> q-
19:16:46 <uli> zakim, mute me
19:16:46 <Zakim> uli should now be muted
19:17:07 <IanH> q?
19:17:08 <Achille> ianh:  how about ManchesterSyntax  being a Note?
19:17:55 <Achille> ianh: seems nobody will vote against it 
19:18:09 <uli> not extremely unhappy, but I would think that this was "treating the MS designers no too nicely" (note, I am not one of them) 
19:18:11 <Achille> PROPOSED : ManchesterSyntax  will be Note
19:18:26 <schneid> what about the editor?
19:18:29 <uli> ...but I will shut up now
19:18:50 <schneid> q+
19:18:54 <schneid> zakim, unmute me
19:18:54 <Zakim> schneid should no longer be muted
19:18:58 <IanH> ack schneid
19:19:28 <Achille> schneid: peter would be in favor of a recommendation
19:19:36 <Christine> +q
19:20:00 <schneid> zakim, mute me
19:20:00 <Zakim> schneid should now be muted
19:20:33 <Achille> ianh: we can vote now and revisit the vote in light of completely new arguments
19:20:52 <IanH> q?
19:21:19 <Achille> ivan: my impression was that peter was just lukewarmly in favor
19:21:47 <Achille> christine: we should vote now becasue last time we postponed it because bijan was not there
19:21:59 <Achille> PROPOSED : ManchesterSyntax  will be a Note
19:21:59 <IanH> ROPOSED : ManchesterSyntax  will be Note
19:22:11 <ivan> +1
19:22:12 <ewallace> +1
19:22:12 <baojie> +1
19:22:14 <uli> -0
19:22:14 <Achille> +0.5
19:22:14 <MarkusK_> +0
19:22:15 <Zhe> +1 (ORACLE)
19:22:16 <msmith> 0
19:22:16 <bernardo> 0
19:22:18 <schneid> +1
19:22:18 <bmotik> -0
19:22:18 <Christine> +1
19:22:29 <IanH> 0
19:22:50 <Achille> RESOLVED : ManchesterSyntax  will be Note
19:23:13 <Zakim> -uli
19:23:21 <Achille> topic: Coordination with RIF 
19:23:51 <Achille> ianh: jie's agrees to take the job wrt to rdf:text
19:24:03 <Achille> ianh: what do we need for this coordination?
19:24:12 <IanH> q?
19:24:28 <IanH> ack christine
19:24:41 <Achille> baojie: what are the other issues on the list wrt to coordination
19:25:01 <Christine> -q
19:25:02 <Achille> ianh: some issues regarding datatypes
19:25:08 <IanH> q?
19:25:52 <Achille> ivan: one of the issues is the diff between how owl and xml schema handle datatype value spaces
19:26:04 <baojie> is there a pointer to previous discussions? thanks
19:27:03 <Achille> ... we do not want diff view of datatypes by owl wg and rif wg
19:27:14 <Achille> ianh: no need to discuss it in details now
19:29:29 <Achille> topic: Additional other business 
19:30:07 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
19:30:12 <msmith> thanks everyone, bye
19:30:13 <Zakim> -bmotik
19:30:15 <Zakim> -msmith
19:30:19 <Zhe> bye
19:30:19 <Zakim> -Achille
19:30:25 <Zakim> -MarkusK_
19:30:28 <Zakim> -Zhe
19:30:35 <Zakim> -Christine
19:30:41 <Zakim> -Joanne
19:30:48 <Zakim> -baojie
19:30:55 <baojie> baojie has left #owl
19:31:03 <Zakim> -schneid
19:32:01 <Zakim> -bernardo
19:32:35 <alanr> have to go to another call
19:32:44 <Zakim> -alanr
19:34:28 <alanr> alanr has joined #owl
19:43:20 <msmith> msmith has left #owl
19:44:03 <Zakim> -IanH
19:44:05 <Zakim> -Ivan
19:44:07 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended
19:44:07 <ivan> ivan has left #owl
19:44:08 <Zakim> Attendees were +0186528aaaa, Ivan, bmotik, IanH, Zhe, schneid, +1.518.276.aacc, Achille, Evan_Wallace, bernardo, MarkusK_, uli, baojie, msmith, alanr, +1.781.271.aadd, Joanne,
19:44:10 <Zakim> ... Christine