15:49:16 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 15:49:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-xproc-irc 15:49:19 Zakim has joined #xproc 15:49:22 zakim, this will be xproc 15:49:22 ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes 15:49:35 Norm has changed the topic to: XProc WG meets 20 Dec: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/12/20-agenda 15:51:36 ht, will you be on today's call? 15:51:47 tes 15:51:49 yes 15:51:59 good 15:52:27 understood 15:53:17 MoZ has joined #xproc 15:55:24 PGrosso has joined #xproc 15:59:00 zakim, what's the passcode? 15:59:00 the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Norm 15:59:21 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has now started 15:59:28 +Norm 16:00:22 avernet has joined #xproc 16:00:42 +[ArborText] 16:01:14 +??P17 16:01:18 zakim, ? is avernet 16:01:18 +avernet; got it 16:01:30 +MoZ 16:01:56 zakim, who's on the phone? 16:01:56 On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, avernet, MoZ 16:02:47 zakim, please call ht-781 16:02:49 ok, ht; the call is being made 16:02:53 +Ht 16:02:53 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 16:02:53 Date: 20 December 2007 16:02:53 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/12/20-agenda 16:02:53 Meeting: 95 16:02:53 Chair: Norm 16:02:54 Scribe: Norm 16:02:56 ScribeNick: Norm 16:03:15 richard has joined #xproc 16:03:57 +??P26 16:04:03 zakim, ? is me 16:04:03 +richard; got it 16:04:15 AndrewF has joined #xproc 16:04:43 +??P11 16:04:45 zakim, ? is Andrew 16:04:45 +Andrew; got it 16:04:54 zakim, who's on the phone? 16:04:54 On the phone I see Norm, PGrosso, avernet, MoZ, Ht, richard, Andrew 16:05:57 Present: Norm, Paul, Alessandro, Mohamed, Henry, Richard, Andrew 16:06:06 Topic: Accept this agenda? 16:06:07 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/12/20-agenda 16:06:10 Accepted. 16:06:18 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 16:06:18 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/12/13-minutes 16:06:21 Accepted. 16:06:28 Topic: Next meeting: telcon 2 January 2008? 16:07:00 s/2 Jan/3 Jan/ 16:07:23 Alessandro gives regrets. 16:07:53 Topic: Last call comments 16:08:01 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments 16:10:26 Topic: 77. An unfulfilled requirement maybe? 16:11:29 Norm: This is Vasil asking about environment variables. 16:12:24 Henry: Something needs to be said about environment variables. At the very least, that it's impl defined what environment variables are passed through. 16:12:42 Richard: I don't think so. It seems to me it depends on the OS how it works and it's a QoI issue. 16:13:14 Richard: Environment variables are an OS-specific concept. 16:13:34 Henry: Can we say that the "environment" (lower case e) is implementation defined. 16:13:46 Richard: I assume that lots of things are implementation defined, like shell expansion in commands. 16:14:02 Norm: I'd have thought not. 16:14:15 Richard: For example, 'C' specifies that the command is passed to a command processor. 16:14:28 ...which in Unix is a shell where expansion does take place. 16:14:36 ...we probably should say something about that. 16:14:52 Henry: I think the answer there is 'no', or impl defined. 16:15:37 Richard: We've separated out the arguments from the command. 16:15:53 ...If you want some sort of shell expansion, then you can make the command you run /bin/sh 16:15:59 ...or whatever is appropriate. 16:16:29 Norm: I'm tempted to go back to Henry's suggestion and say that the "e"nvironment is OS and implementation defined. 16:17:29 Some discussion of parameters 16:18:16 Accepted. Implementation defined. 16:18:22 Norm: But we're not providing support for envars. 16:18:31 Right. 16:21:03 Topic: 78. normalization-form serialization option 16:21:47 Norm: I think we resolved this last week, all the steps that have normalization parameters are supposed tohave them all. Any variance was a bug. 16:22:08 Topic: 82. Security considerations: p:exec et al. 16:23:23 Norm: I think this is resolved by the changes in 2.8 Security Considerations. 16:23:41 Mohamed: We have to also have a warning about user-defined steps. 16:23:50 s/2.8/2.9/ 16:24:14 Norm: So we need to say that p:exec can be inside user-defined pipelines 16:24:59 Norm: I suppose we could also say something about user-defined steps that are defined using Java code or something. 16:25:32 Richard: Rui mentions explicitly the case that the p:exec is in an external library. 16:26:14 ACTION: Norm to expand 2.9 a bit more to cover these cases. 16:26:28 Topic: 84. Handling of system IDs 16:29:09 Norm: I think this is really about base URIs, which I'd thought we'd worked through, but now I'm not so sure. 16:29:57 Norm: It might make sense to augment p:store so that it uses the xml:base value of the document element if it has one. 16:30:57 Some discussion of how doctype declarations established by the serialization in XSLT might come into play. 16:32:20 Henry: I was chasing this the other day and discovering that Saxon does better than most other processors about changing the base URI if you add an xml:base attribute. 16:33:50 Henry: We did say that preserving base URI properties was something you should do, but we didn't directly address this point. 16:35:17 Norm: Toman wants to change the base URI in a specific way. 16:35:27 Richard: What's more, he probably wants it in unabsolutized form. 16:37:10 Norm: Maybe we need to think about this some more... 16:37:35 Richard: The clunky way to fix this is to start with a document that lists the documents rather than directly with the list of documents. 16:38:31 Norm: Should we leave this one open a bit and see what progress we make. 16:38:41 Let's take this one to email. 16:39:22 Richard: The p:for-each step already does some things to the XPath environment, it could put something in which was the URI of the document in question. 16:41:10 Some more discussion of the examples 16:41:24 Richard observes that the select in p:store could access the extension function 16:41:43 Topic: 85. Please add Implementation and Test Suite info to the W3C XProc page 16:42:18 ACTION: Norm to fix the XProc home page 16:42:35 Topic: 86. A really important question 16:42:46 Norm: This what extension to use... 16:42:54 Henry: Whatever convention we establish, people will follow. 16:43:45 ...We ought to give a little thought to the extension 16:44:14 ...We could just expose them as .xml 16:44:56 ...Since we're toying with a media type, web server administrators will be unhappy if we don't pick a suffix. 16:47:50 allinurl: xpl filetype:xpl 16:49:24 Henry: There are about 8000 pages that end in .xpl 16:49:41 Henry: Orbeon uses .xpl 16:49:45 Alessandro: works for me! 16:50:11 Henry: So is this the way we're going 16:50:32 Norm: I'm not really fond of the idea of making a statement directly about it in the spec, but I'm happy to use .xpl in examples and the test suite, etc. 16:51:10 Henry: We have an issue about the media type stuff and fragment identifiers. We'll get back to this, indirectly, when we cover that issue. 16:51:33 Norm: I'm happy that we have an informal consensus to use .xpl, but I don't feel like we need to add it to the spec just yet. 16:51:49 Alessandro: The XSLT spec says that most of the stylesheets use the extension .xsl 16:52:57 Norm: Right, in the media type spec, I'm happy to do that too. 16:53:12 Topic: 87. p:function 16:53:53 Not in V1 16:54:44 Topic: 88. xpath-version=2 and XSLTMatchPatterns 16:55:39 Norm: So we get XSLT 2.0 match patterns if xpath-version=2? 16:56:52 Norm: Anyone disagree and it's just the editor's job to work that out 16:57:54 Richard: What's the difference? 16:58:03 Norm: XSLT 2.0 match patterns can include variable references 16:58:10 Henry: And can have functions in places other than predicates 16:59:41 Some discussion of the features of XSLT 1.0 and XSLT 2.0 16:59:52 ACTION: Editor to make it so. 17:00:09 Topic: Any other business 17:00:13 None. 17:00:31 -PGrosso 17:00:32 -avernet 17:00:34 Happy holidays to all! 17:00:35 -Andrew 17:00:41 zakim, who's on the phone? 17:00:41 On the phone I see Norm, MoZ, Ht, richard 17:00:47 -richard 17:01:06 -MoZ 17:01:08 rrsagent, set logs world visible 17:01:08 I'm logging. I don't understand 'set logs world visible', Norm. Try /msg RRSAgent help 17:01:14 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 17:01:48 zakim, who's on the phone? 17:01:48 On the phone I see Norm, Ht 17:02:12 PGrosso has left #xproc 17:03:17 Norm, still here 17:03:30 In 3.1 Namespaces 17:03:32 http://www.w3.org/ns/1.0 17:03:36 is it correct ? 17:05:18 -Ht 17:05:20 -Norm 17:05:22 XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended 17:05:23 Attendees were Norm, PGrosso, avernet, MoZ, Ht, richard, Andrew 17:05:26 Correct for what/ 17:05:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:05:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/20-xproc-minutes.html Norm 17:05:49 Norm, may be this name should have a reference to xproc anywhere 17:05:58 http://www.w3.org/ns/xproc/1.0 17:06:17 Oh, yes, the /xproc/1.0 document needs to be written 17:06:29 We won't get through another round of pubrules without it, but I haven't bothered yet 17:07:13 yes indeed 17:07:28 Thanks for the reminder though 17:07:40 I need to unplug my network for a few minutes. talk to you later. 17:07:50 happy holidays & happy new year if I don't get back before you go!