IRC log of bpwg on 2007-12-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:32:38 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:32:38 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-irc
14:32:40 [trackbot-ng]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:32:40 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:32:42 [trackbot-ng]: Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:32:42 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot-ng; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 28 minutes
14:32:44 [trackbot-ng]: Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:32:46 [trackbot-ng]: Date: 13 December 2007
14:33:04 [dom]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2007Dec/0007.html
14:33:08 [dom]: Chair: DKA
14:33:32 [dom]: Regrets: Magnus, Abel
14:41:46 [DKA]: DKA has joined #bpwg
14:57:43 [drooks]: drooks has joined #bpwg
14:58:25 [jo]: jo has joined #bpwg
14:58:31 [miguel]: miguel has joined #BPWG
14:59:01 [Zakim]: MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
14:59:08 [Zakim]: +??P1
14:59:22 [francois]: zakim, ??P1 is francois
14:59:22 [Zakim]: +francois; got it
14:59:22 [Zakim]: +jo
14:59:26 [Zakim]: +Dom
14:59:28 [adam]: adam has joined #bpwg
14:59:59 [Zakim]: +[W3C-Spain]
15:00:23 [dom]: Zakim, [W3C-Spain] holds miguel
15:00:23 [Zakim]: +miguel; got it
15:00:31 [Zakim]: +??P4
15:00:39 [dom]: zakim, ??P4 is Adam
15:00:39 [Zakim]: +Adam; got it
15:00:41 [Zakim]: +??P5
15:00:51 [drooks]: zakim, ??p5 is drooks
15:00:51 [Zakim]: +drooks; got it
15:01:09 [Zakim]: +??P9
15:01:18 [DKA]: zakim, who is here?\
15:01:18 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is here?\', DKA
15:01:21 [dom]: zakim, ??P9 is DKA
15:01:21 [Zakim]: +DKA; got it
15:01:26 [DKA]: zakim, who is here?
15:01:26 [Zakim]: On the phone I see francois, jo, Dom, [W3C-Spain], Adam, drooks, DKA
15:01:27 [Zakim]: [W3C-Spain] has miguel
15:01:29 [Zakim]: On IRC I see adam, miguel, jo, drooks, DKA, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
15:02:08 [DKA]: zakim, who is here?
15:02:08 [Zakim]: On the phone I see francois, jo, Dom, [W3C-Spain], Adam, drooks, DKA
15:02:09 [Zakim]: [W3C-Spain] has miguel
15:02:10 [Zakim]: On IRC I see adam, miguel, jo, drooks, DKA, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
15:03:05 [dom]: zakim, pick a victim
15:03:05 [Zakim]: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose drooks
15:03:26 [dom]: ScribeNick: drooks
15:04:17 [edm]: edm has joined #bpwg
15:04:23 [drooks]: dka: outlines todays agenda...
15:04:24 [Zakim]: +Shahriar
15:04:55 [dom]: Topic: CT Task Force
15:04:56 [SeanP]: SeanP has joined #bpwg
15:04:58 [DKA]: zakim, who is here?
15:04:58 [Zakim]: On the phone I see francois (muted), jo, Dom, [W3C-Spain], Adam, drooks, DKA, Shahriar
15:05:01 [Zakim]: [W3C-Spain] has miguel
15:05:02 [Zakim]: On IRC I see SeanP, edm, adam, miguel, jo, drooks, DKA, Zakim, RRSAgent, matt, francois, trackbot-ng, dom
15:05:03 [edm]: cnnot get thru zakim ...
15:05:06 [jo]: [no progress in last week]
15:05:06 [Zakim]: +Ed_Mitukiewicz
15:05:09 [dom]: ACTION-608?
15:05:10 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-608 -- Daniel Appelquist to recruit a TF lead for CT -- due 2007-12-13 -- OPEN
15:05:10 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/608
15:05:33 [drooks]: dka: can anyone give us a run down of what been happening in CT TF?
15:05:53 [Zakim]: +Sean_Owen
15:05:56 [drooks]: dka: no chair found yet
15:06:13 [drooks]: dka: hopefully be next week we'll have found someone
15:06:26 [dom]: (action-608 now due on 20071220)
15:06:26 [Zakim]: +Kai_Dietrich
15:06:40 [drooks]: dka: anyone want to be the chair?
15:07:19 [drooks]: dka: not much to update about the checker tf
15:07:45 [Zakim]: +SeanP
15:07:45 [Kai]: Kai has joined #bpwg
15:09:03 [dom]: Topic: mobileOK Pro TF
15:09:12 [drooks]: dka: was speaking at conference yesterday - there is lots of interest / awareness of mobile in dev community and people are becoming more aware of MOK
15:09:12 [dom]: ACTION-610?
15:09:12 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-610 -- Daniel Appelquist to check with Kai if he's interested in leading the mobileOK pro TF and asking him to prepare a TF charter if so -- due 2007-12-13 -- OPEN
15:09:12 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/610
15:09:32 [edm]: More on LeWeb3 conference in Paris at http://www.leweb3.com/
15:09:40 [drooks]: dka: now onto MOK Pro TF...
15:09:49 [drooks]: dka: do we meet criteria for a TF?
15:10:25 [drooks]: jo: kai was volunteered sa chair and to draft charter
15:11:04 [Kai]: ACTION: Kai to write a charter for mobileOK Pro TF by January
15:11:04 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-612 - Write a charter for mobileOK Pro TF by January [on Kai Scheppe - due 2007-12-20].
15:11:23 [dom]: [I'll close ACTION-610 as a result]
15:11:27 [jo]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/#rules TF Rules
15:11:41 [dom]: trackbot-ng, close action-610
15:11:41 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-610 Check with Kai if he's interested in leading the mobileOK pro TF and asking him to prepare a TF charter if so closed
15:11:42 [drooks]: dka: not much to report at moment on MOK Pro
15:11:53 [dom]: Topic: Accessibility document
15:12:17 [dom]: ACTION-611?
15:12:17 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-611 -- Daniel Appelquist to check with Shawn and Alan on getting current doc as FPWD -- due 2007-12-13 -- OPEN
15:12:17 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/611
15:12:42 [drooks]: dka: document not yet ready for 1st public WD
15:12:45 [nacho]: nacho has joined #bpwg
15:13:26 [drooks]: dka: sean working on additional content for accessibility document
15:13:48 [dom]: [I think this closes ACTION-611]
15:14:03 [Zakim]: -drooks
15:14:11 [dom]: trackbot-ng, ACTION-611 closed
15:14:14 [jo]: [nothing to add]
15:14:33 [dom]: trackbot-ng, close ACTION-611
15:14:34 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-611 Check with Shawn and Alan on getting current doc as FPWD closed
15:15:01 [Zakim]: +??P5
15:15:10 [drooks]: zakim, ??p5 is drooks
15:15:10 [Zakim]: +drooks; got it
15:15:26 [dom]: Topic: Call schedule over the holidays
15:15:58 [dom]: [I won't be available either on Dec 20, 27, Jan 3]
15:16:40 [drooks]: dka: suggest we cancel call on 27th
15:16:45 [dom]: Regrets+ Murari
15:16:58 [achuter]: achuter has joined #bpwg
15:17:03 [PhilA]: PhilA has joined #bpwg
15:17:27 [jo]: +1 t cancelling 20 and 27 Dec
15:17:56 [Zakim]: +??P24
15:18:10 [PhilA]: zakim, P24 is me
15:18:10 [Zakim]: sorry, PhilA, I do not recognize a party named 'P24'
15:18:17 [dom]: zakim, ???24 is PhilA
15:18:17 [Zakim]: sorry, dom, I do not recognize a party named '???24'
15:18:22 [dom]: zakim, ??P24 is PhilA
15:18:22 [Zakim]: +PhilA; got it
15:18:34 [dom]: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: calls on Dec 20 and 27 canceled
15:18:47 [dom]: RESOLUTION: calls on Dec 20 and 27 canceled
15:18:47 [PhilA]: zakim, mute me
15:18:47 [Zakim]: PhilA should now be muted
15:18:56 [dom]: q+
15:19:02 [Zakim]: +??P25
15:19:11 [jo]: q?
15:19:14 [Kai]: yipee
15:19:27 [achuter]: zakim, ??P25 is me
15:19:27 [Zakim]: +achuter; got it
15:19:32 [jo]: ack dom
15:19:40 [matt]: zakim, dial matt-voip
15:19:40 [Zakim]: ok, matt; the call is being made
15:19:42 [Zakim]: +Matt
15:19:50 [jo]: q+ to discuss new good standing rules
15:20:20 [dom]: CR exit criteria:
15:20:21 [dom]: * existence of ten highly visible mobileOK-compliant Web pages representing a number of different applications;
15:20:22 [dom]: * existence of a checker that checks each aspect of each test specified in this document;
15:20:24 [dom]: * existence of a test suite to verify the correct operation of mobileOK checkers.
15:20:30 [dom]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/CR-mobileOK-basic10-tests-20071130/
15:20:30 [drooks]: dom: we need to define exit criteria
15:20:43 [dom]: s/exit criteria/how to achieve our CR exit criteria/
15:21:33 [dom]: dom: we're ok for the checker, and I've started to work on the test suite
15:21:47 [dom]: ... but we need someone to look at finding the 10 highly visible web pages
15:21:55 [drooks]: dka: we need to find some MOK compliant web pages
15:22:18 [jo]: q+ to say that dotMobi can find some
15:22:28 [DKA]: ack jo
15:22:28 [Zakim]: jo, you wanted to discuss new good standing rules and to say that dotMobi can find some
15:22:53 [dom]: ACTION: Jo to start collecting mobileOK web pages for mobileOK CR - due January 10
15:22:53 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-613 - start collecting mobileOK web pages for mobileOK CR [on Jo Rabin - due 2007-01-10].
15:23:36 [Zakim]: + +34.98.4.aaaa
15:23:47 [nacho]: zakim, +34.98.4.aaaa is me
15:23:47 [Zakim]: +nacho; got it
15:24:51 [dom]: q+ jo to discuss new good standing rules
15:25:03 [jo]: ack me
15:25:03 [Zakim]: jo, you wanted to discuss new good standing rules
15:25:06 [DKA]: q?
15:25:12 [dom]: Topic: Good standing rules
15:25:49 [dom]: i/<dom> CR exit criteria:/Topic: exiting CR for mobileOK Basic/
15:25:57 [drooks]: jo: we've discussed some revised good standing rules
15:26:26 [drooks]: jo: a lartge number of members are not attending calls / contributing
15:26:34 [drooks]: jo: new rules are...
15:26:46 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/GoodStanding.html Draft Good standing rules
15:26:58 [drooks]: jo: 1. non-attendance a meeting within 3 weeks of joining group
15:27:22 [drooks]: jo: 2. sending regrets for 3 consecutiive weeks
15:27:39 [drooks]: jo: 3. don't respond to surveys
15:28:04 [drooks]: s/lartge/large
15:28:24 [drooks]: 4. non-attendance for 6 weeks
15:28:34 [PhilA]: q+ to ask about current list of participants
15:28:54 [DKA]: q?
15:29:32 [PhilA]: ack me
15:29:33 [Zakim]: PhilA, you wanted to ask about current list of participants
15:29:37 [DKA]: ack phila
15:29:47 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=37584&public=1 Participants in the Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group
15:29:54 [matt]: rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html matt
15:30:01 [PhilA]: http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=37584&public=1
15:30:19 [matt]: rrsagent, make minutes member
15:30:19 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes member', matt. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:30:22 [matt]: rrsagent, make logs member
15:31:59 [PhilA]: zakim, mute me
15:31:59 [Zakim]: PhilA should now be muted
15:32:29 [drooks]: dom: good standing tracking will be automated
15:32:42 [drooks]: dom: bad standing will not be automated
15:34:38 [PhilA]: I have a quick one
15:34:42 [PhilA]: ack me
15:35:18 [drooks]: jo: trying to organise a joint w3c / gsm event in march
15:35:42 [drooks]: jo: should cover POWDER and MWBP
15:35:51 [dom]: s/jo: t/phila: t/
15:35:55 [dom]: s/jo: s/phila: s/
15:36:12 [PhilA]: zakim, mute me
15:36:12 [Zakim]: PhilA should now be muted
15:36:19 [dom]: s/gsm/gsma/
15:36:29 [drooks]: dka: been planning a mobile web developer event in london
15:37:03 [dom]: Topic: Issues and actions
15:37:12 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/overdue Overdue action items
15:37:33 [dom]: close ACTION-596
15:37:34 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-596 Encourage group participants to re-register themselves or have their AC reps re-register them for group membership in two weeks. closed
15:37:39 [dom]: close ACTION-595
15:37:39 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-595 Encourage group participants to re-register themselves or have their AC reps re-register them for group membership in two weeks. closed
15:37:47 [dom]: close ACTION-597
15:37:47 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-597 Formulate a poll on what exactly people are planning on doing with mobileOK Pro, beyond issuing a mandate (potentially) closed
15:38:14 [matt]: dom++
15:38:16 [dom]: close ACTION-598
15:38:16 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-598 Add to the poll people's intention to participate in a MobileOK Pro Cram Session including dates for doing this closed
15:38:44 [dom]: ACTION-588?
15:38:44 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-588 -- Jo Rabin to with Dan to raise this document at next HCG meeting informing them of our intentions and soliciting input -- due 2007-11-12 -- OPEN
15:38:44 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/588
15:39:00 [dom]: DKA: it wasn't discussed on the HCG call, but I included it in my report to the HCG
15:40:22 [dom]: Dom: due updated to January 10, will have to be updated for next HCG call presumably
15:40:50 [dom]: close ACTION-601
15:40:51 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-601 Send email chasing to people to renew closed
15:41:10 [dom]: ACTION-592?
15:41:10 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-592 -- Edward Mitukiewicz to report whether he can be editor of the document who shall not be named -- due 2007-11-19 -- OPEN
15:41:10 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/592
15:41:34 [dom]: Ed: we'll have a decision on this hopefully next week
15:43:59 [drooks]: dka: brian has indicated it looks ok
15:44:11 [dom]: q+
15:45:11 [dom]: q?
15:45:22 [DKA]: ack dom
15:45:39 [drooks]: dom: how do we get this document started?
15:45:58 [drooks]: dom: do ed and brian need to put together a 1st draft?
15:46:11 [drooks]: dka: think we need more group input before 1st draft
15:46:23 [edm]: q+
15:46:29 [DKA]: ack edm
15:47:08 [drooks]: ed: 1st step should be defining scope, this can be a group effort
15:47:38 [drooks]: dka: we discused this in boston...
15:47:41 [dom]: [I just created ISSUE-229 as a result of this discussion: "Scope of mobile web applications best practices"]
15:48:45 [drooks]: ed: bostn minutes are good start but needs further input
15:48:58 [drooks]: s/bostn/boston
15:49:50 [francois]: ACTION-581?
15:49:50 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-581 -- Jo Rabin to to promote discussion on the list and then produce editors draft based on discussion -- due 2007-10-30 -- OPEN
15:49:50 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/581
15:49:53 [dom]: trackbot-ng, close ACTION-581
15:49:53 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-581 to promote discussion on the list and then produce editors draft based on discussion closed
15:50:27 [dom]: trackbot-ng, close ACTION-586
15:50:27 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-586 Raise ISSUE on setting criteria for group sign off on mobileOK checker once the task force says it is done with the work closed
15:50:47 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/228 ISSUE-228 What Criteria for Checker Approval?
15:53:59 [dom]: ACTION-530?
15:53:59 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-530 -- Edward Mitukiewicz to draft a page on context and its effect on content authors etc -- due 2007-11-21 -- OPEN
15:53:59 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/530
15:55:34 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/20-bpwg-minutes.html#action02 Minutes where that action-530 was created
15:56:25 [dom]: Ed: let's pretend this action never existed
15:56:38 [dom]: Jo: I think it would be useful to have such a document, actually
15:57:29 [dom]: Regrets+ Bruno
15:57:50 [dom]: q+
15:58:23 [dom]: [I've just updated the due date to early January]
15:58:31 [dom]: q-
15:59:37 [Zakim]: -Matt
16:00:02 [Zakim]: -SeanP
16:00:23 [dom]: ACTION-593?
16:00:23 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-593 -- Kai Scheppe to write a summary of preliminary work to be done for this working group to focus on Best Practices for Web applications -- due 2007-11-13 -- OPEN
16:00:23 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/593
16:00:34 [dom]: Kai: thought I had done it, but don't see anything linked from it
16:00:40 [dom]: ... will look back at it
16:00:54 [dom]: ACTION-594?
16:00:55 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-594 -- Daniel Appelquist to coordinate mobileOK Basic advancement, probably starting with a teleconf -- due 2007-11-13 -- OPEN
16:00:55 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/594
16:01:28 [PhilA]: it was going tobe a call with you, me and Marie Claire I think
16:01:49 [PhilA]: s/tobe/to be/
16:01:58 [PhilA]: and kai, I assume
16:02:06 [dom]: ACTION-594 date updated
16:02:13 [francois]: ACTION-599?
16:02:13 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-599 -- Alan Chuter to look at mailing list for sharing information between BP and EO -- due 2007-11-13 -- OPEN
16:02:13 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/599
16:03:08 [dom]: DKA: the mailing list exists (the TF mailing list), but we haven't put it to use
16:03:45 [dom]: Alan: perhaps having a shared mailing list isn't that necessary
16:03:59 [dom]: ... I can serve as a bridge between the two groups
16:04:19 [dom]: DKA: we probably don't need it
16:04:28 [dom]: trackbot-ng, close ACTION-599
16:04:28 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-599 Look at mailing list for sharing information between BP and EO closed
16:04:47 [dom]: ACTION-602?
16:04:47 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-602 -- Jo Rabin to raise an issue on how useful this spec will be without HTTP extensions of some form -- due 2007-11-27 -- OPEN
16:04:47 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/602
16:05:16 [dom]: Jo: I raised that issue
16:05:29 [dom]: (ISSUE-227)
16:05:36 [dom]: close ACTION-602
16:05:36 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-602 Raise an issue on how useful this spec will be without HTTP extensions of some form closed
16:06:06 [dom]: ACTION-603?
16:06:06 [trackbot-ng]: ACTION-603 -- Jo Rabin to find out how to liaise with HTTP NG work -- due 2007-12-04 -- OPEN
16:06:06 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/603
16:06:34 [dom]: Jo: sent Mark Nottingham a long email, but didn't get a reply
16:06:36 [PhilA]: I think you just join the BISHTTP list
16:06:45 [PhilA]: I was on it for a short time, it's open
16:06:46 [dom]: ... Dom gave me another contact that I haven't contacted yet
16:06:55 [PhilA]: They had a f2f in Vancouver recently I think
16:07:33 [PhilA]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/
16:07:35 [PhilA]: ack me
16:08:04 [dom]: Dom: BISHTTP being presumably the list of the rechartered IETF WG that works on revising HTTP
16:08:21 [dom]: PhilA: the only requirement to join the WG is to join the mailing list, actually
16:08:27 [dom]: ... pretty active mailing list
16:08:40 [dom]: ... it's the old HTTP gang again
16:10:09 [dom]: Dom: they're "only" fixing HTTP 1.1, not creating HTTP 1.2
16:10:11 [PhilA]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/0108.html
16:10:17 [dom]: PhilA: indeed, they won't be adding new features
16:10:24 [dom]: ... they have a very restricted charter
16:10:51 [dom]: DKA: how does that affect our ability to put mobileOK hints in HTTP headers?
16:11:12 [dom]: PhilA: I don't think they will help - the charter forbids them to define new headers, IIRC
16:11:44 [dom]: ... it's unclear how this affects the status of promulgating the Link: header
16:12:06 [dom]: ... I don't know that the IETF process is to push an internet draft as RFC
16:12:12 [jo]: [the CT group just wants to add some values for the Cache-Control header]
16:13:18 [PhilA]: zakim, mute me
16:13:18 [Zakim]: PhilA should now be muted
16:13:56 [dom]: -> http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/12/12/stale Mark Nottingham's on extending the Cache-Control header
16:15:13 [dom]: ACTION-606 and ACTION-607 marked as PendingReview
16:19:00 [dom]: [discussions around ISSUE-222]
16:19:03 [dom]: ack me
16:20:14 [dom]: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/alternatives-discovery.html TAG Finding on Alternative Representations
16:20:58 [dom]: ACTION: Jo to restart discussion on the TAG finding (ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list
16:20:58 [trackbot-ng]: Created ACTION-614 - Restart discussion on the TAG finding (ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list [on Jo Rabin - due 2007-12-20].
16:22:15 [dom]: (ISSUE-227)
16:22:31 [dom]: ISSUE-227?
16:22:31 [trackbot-ng]: ISSUE-227 -- How Useful will the CT Guidelines Doc be, without extensions to HTTP? -- OPEN
16:22:31 [trackbot-ng]: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/issues/227
16:22:43 [dom]: (13 messages exchanged on this topic in the TF)
16:22:57 [dom]: Jo: there is mild support for going beyond Cache-Control and Vary
16:23:17 [dom]: ... my own view (which is not supported) is that if we only say so, we may as well have said 3 months ago
16:23:27 [dom]: DKA: I think we need to say something else
16:24:51 [dom]: Jo: if it's clear than something less brute-force than "no-transform" is needed (e.g. to allow compression by an intermediate, or adapting the image format, but don't relay my stuff out)
16:24:57 [dom]: ... then there is a need for something else
16:25:20 [Kai]: q+
16:25:22 [dom]: ... the problem with no-transform in particular is [...]?
16:25:41 [dom]: ack kai
16:25:58 [dom]: kai: are you going to give instructions on how to handle specific parts of the content?
16:26:26 [dom]: Jo: no, the idea on the table is to day that "Cache-control: no-transform, ..." has a fail-safe interpretation for non-conforming proxies
16:27:05 [dom]: Kai: I'm wondering if we really have to worry about non-conforming proxies
16:27:19 [dom]: ... and not deal with those that don't follow the rules
16:27:25 [dom]: Jo: I agree-ish
16:28:07 [dom]: ... but there is a community agreement on how to fail safely these instructions
16:28:51 [dom]: q+
16:29:11 [dom]: ... is it in scope for our charter to invent new values for the cache-control header?
16:29:26 [dom]: ... it's clear we wouldn't want to invent new HTTP headers
16:30:18 [dom]: ... but having modifiers on the existing values might be OK-ish
16:30:19 [dom]: q,
16:30:20 [dom]: q?
16:30:35 [dom]: q?
16:30:40 [dom]: ack me
16:31:20 [DKA]: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: new values for cache control headers is not new technology.
16:32:30 [Kai]: q+ to say that I think caching already understood and used badly enough. We do not need to make it more complicated but should focus on correct usage of what exists first.
16:34:48 [DKA]: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will take over the IETF.
16:34:57 [Kai]: +1
16:35:30 [francois]: ack Kai
16:35:30 [Zakim]: Kai, you wanted to say that I think caching already understood and used badly enough. We do not need to make it more complicated but should focus on correct usage of what exists
16:35:34 [Zakim]: ... first.
16:36:23 [PhilA]: Happy Christmas everyone
16:36:38 [jo]: [and hanukkah]
16:36:50 [drooks]: bye
16:36:51 [PhilA]: bye
16:36:52 [Zakim]: -Shahriar
16:36:54 [Zakim]: -Adam
16:36:55 [Zakim]: -jo
16:36:57 [Zakim]: -PhilA
16:36:58 [Zakim]: -achuter
16:36:59 [Zakim]: -Kai_Dietrich
16:37:00 [Zakim]: -Ed_Mitukiewicz
16:37:01 [Zakim]: -Dom
16:37:02 [PhilA]: PhilA has left #bpwg
16:37:03 [Zakim]: -drooks
16:37:04 [Zakim]: -Sean_Owen
16:37:05 [Zakim]: -[W3C-Spain]
16:37:06 [Zakim]: -DKA
16:37:12 [drooks]: drooks has left #bpwg
16:37:16 [Zakim]: -francois
16:37:35 [Zakim]: -nacho
16:37:37 [Zakim]: MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
16:37:38 [Zakim]: Attendees were francois, jo, Dom, miguel, Adam, drooks, DKA, Shahriar, Ed_Mitukiewicz, Sean_Owen, Kai_Dietrich, SeanP, PhilA, achuter, Matt, nacho
16:37:57 [dom]: Zakim, bye
16:37:57 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #bpwg
16:38:01 [dom]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:38:01 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html dom
16:38:18 [francois]: rrsagent, make log public
16:42:11 [nacho]: nacho has left #bpwg
16:43:13 [dom]: RRSAgent, bye
16:43:13 [RRSAgent]: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-actions.rdf :
16:43:13 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Kai to write a charter for mobileOK Pro TF by January [1]
16:43:13 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-irc#T15-11-04
16:43:13 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Jo to start collecting mobileOK web pages for mobileOK CR - due January 10 [2]
16:43:13 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-irc#T15-22-53
16:43:13 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Jo to restart discussion on the TAG finding (ISSUE-222) on the public mailing list [3]
16:43:13 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-irc#T16-20-58
17:01:06 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
17:01:06 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-irc
17:04:31 [francois]: i/ Topic: Issues and actions/ScribeNick: dom
17:04:55 [francois]: rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:04:55 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html francois
17:06:47 [francois]: i/dka: brian has indicated it looks ok/ScribeNick: drooks
17:07:14 [francois]: i/ACTION-581?/ScribeNick: dom
17:07:22 [francois]: rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:07:22 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html francois
17:08:49 [dom]: i/<PhilA> I have a quick one/Topic: MWBP-related events
17:08:54 [dom]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:08:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-bpwg-minutes.html dom
17:20:53 [francois]: rrsagent, bye
17:25:11 [dom]: RRSAgent, make log public
17:25:14 [dom]: RRSAgent, bye
17:25:14 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items