17:52:24 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:52:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/29-ua-irc 17:52:33 rrsagent, set logs public 17:52:52 zakim, this will be wai_u 17:52:52 ok, AllanJ; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes 17:53:15 meeting: UAWG telecon 17:53:54 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007OctDec/0054.html 17:54:02 chair: Jim Allan 17:54:56 yes, i can 17:55:02 scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita 17:55:07 ScribeNick: oedipus 17:56:52 KFord has joined #ua 17:57:18 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:57:25 +[IBM] 17:57:35 + +1.512.206.aaaa 17:57:37 - +1.512.206.aaaa 17:57:38 + +1.512.206.aaaa 17:57:56 zakim, [IBM] is perente 17:57:56 +perente; got it 17:58:28 +Gregory_Rosmaita 17:59:43 zakim, +1.512.206.aaaa is really AllanJ 17:59:44 +AllanJ; got it 17:59:47 JA: CLaws will be joining later 17:59:54 parente has joined #ua 18:00:18 zakim, [Microsoft] is KFord 18:00:18 +KFord; got it 18:01:46 JA: Jan is out today and perhaps for a bit - has a new bundle of joy - 4 weeks early, everyone doing well 18:01:59 WG: congratulations to JAN and Mrs. JAN! 18:02:32 scribe's note: WG = working group 18:04:13 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/24 18:04:19 http://html4all.org/wiki/index.php/DraftStyleSheetIssues 18:04:26 comparative stylerules exposed: http://tinyurl.com/yt68z7 18:04:28 Topic: Accessible style issues for group documents 18:05:17 GJR: discussing current status of work, collaborate with M. Cooper and HTML WG 18:06:09 GJR: also working with PF for accessible collaborative tools, and placed in style guides 18:08:08 GJR: use overflow technique from WCAG 2.0 C7 for increased accessibility 18:10:05 GJR: still negotiating with all parties as screen reader can only read 11 named colors. 18:11:11 GJR thanks JA for minuting his comments 18:11:49 JA: KF, printed out notes from f2f and there was an action item on alternate view? 18:12:07 Topic: Alternate View 18:13:57 KF: went off on a tangent during f2f: talked about collective thinking with respect to the fact that if UAs develop more features based on actions users taking on web content (find feature, for example) what kind of expectations/requirements do we need to give to ensure those features are compatible/available to those using alternative views -- for example, today in IE and FF, different screen readers keep user from getting full experience -- getting view provid 18:14:15 KF: with more robust features may not be so simple; 18:15:01 KF: find feature where number of instances of word or string in document instance -- AT vendor has to rebuild alternate view (sighted user can follow color coding) 18:16:10 JA: google highlighting feature -- when do search will highlight search terms for you to indicate where search string is located; sighted user would use scrollbar to find instances, otherwise have to read through entire document instance 18:18:26 KF: architecturally, UA could communicate selected/highlighted state thorugh accessibliity API, then AT has to calculate what to search for; no clear solution today, but emerging trends in UA dev going to be a larger trend; will become more of an issue -- only so much wizadry can add to UA chrome -- actions on content one of most important aspects; used example of NYT (nytimes.com) which has script that enables user to double-click on any word and gets a diction 18:18:30 JA: keyboard accessible? 18:18:47 KF: no; not even in caret browsing mode of FF 18:20:18 KF: need to write this up; whether it is a guideline or technical notes to existing GLs -- would like to ensure that when people create chrome that this level of awareness is included -- have to think about x,y, and z; AT vendors shouldn't have to recreate all of this in alternative view, because then they are acting as a browser; emerging problem that i'd like to see us give more recommendations -- may all be P2 requirements, but something need to keep on front 18:20:29 JA: when google does highlighting, does it appear in DOM? 18:20:41 PP: yes -- google toolbar or searches? 18:21:03 JA: thinking of toolbar, but when use search interface and choose to view PDF as HTML 18:21:12 PP: tweaaking stylesheets for effect 18:21:18 JA: putting class on items 18:21:29 PP: or just putting style on individual elements 18:21:44 JA: would that be available to MSAA or IAccessible2 18:22:05 KF: might get highlighting -- depends on implementation -- DOM awareness, etc. 18:22:28 PP: not selection state change -- just highlight -- probably a span with style set; DOM node asserted event, but that's about it 18:22:52 KF: for AT product is a lot of work to determine what is relevant and needs to be reported 18:23:23 PP: indistinguishable from any other DOM mutation; may need scripts for searching for certain types of mutation events -- programmatically distinguishing may be impossible 18:23:49 KF: if google doing something relevant to user base, AT has to write custom code -- very page/domain specific code 18:24:09 PP: even with toolbar, logic would be "if toolbar that does searching changes, treat this as change" 18:24:31 KF: this is just one scenario -- many other scenarios that are more complicated 18:24:34 JA: for instance? 18:26:28 KF: go back to nytimes scenario -- or skype -- skype has add-in for IE -- inject onclick attributes to any phone number found on page; may also have add-in for FF; generic problem: making onClick behavior keyboard accessible, but another example of modification of page and then changing nature of page content; can be done with scripts, too; 18:26:53 JA: way to genericize this to a guideline? accessible in that trying to provide equivalent fucntionality 18:27:16 GJR: need not just functionality but awareness of functionality 18:27:19 KF: 18:27:23 q+ 18:28:16 KF: can solve problem by going to individual AT vendors -- would rather go a step above -- user agents recognize that vast majority of what is being done depends upon AT to use alternative view -- need to get equivalent feature set for alternative view 18:28:42 JA: falls into a bunch of diff guidelines -- 1.1 device independence -- inform that it is there, navigatable, etc. 18:29:08 KF: if existing GLs already resolve issue, maybe need to explicitly tie them together 18:29:35 JA: is there a greater issue we haven't addressed 18:30:34 GRJ: watch UWA, Ubiquitous Web Applicaiton 18:30:48 GJR: one palce to watch is UWA -- has taken ownership of what used to be called device indepence -- XML Events -- XML Events draft dropped the purpose element for generic handlers 18:37:44 KF: need to digest GJR's data dump 18:38:47 KF: try and determine what more we need to do over next few weeks -- will write something up and post to the list summarizing my thinking 18:40:11 q- 18:44:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2007OctDec/0049.html 18:45:20 takeaway from previous pointer: i am a member of the HTML WG and currently serve as the liaison between the HTML WG and the AUWG and UAWG -- MichaelC is also involved in (or at least closely monitors) HTML5 work, and he has done an excellent job of keeping tabs on developments in that arena as they may affect WCAG and ARIA; i think it is essential at this point in the process, that the AU, GL and UA working groups (and possibly the EO working group) immediately 18:45:21 * Authoring Guidelines for HTML5 18:45:21 * Authoring Tool Conformance Requirements for HTML5 18:45:21 * User Agent Conformance Requirements for HTML5 18:45:32 -perente 18:45:34 -KFord 18:45:56 -Gregory_Rosmiata 18:45:58 -AllanJ 18:46:00 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:46:01 Attendees were perente, Gregory_Rosmaita, AllanJ, KFord 18:46:19 AllanJ has left #ua 18:46:21 regrets: Catherine_Laws 18:46:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:46:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/29-ua-minutes.html oedipus 18:47:26 rrsagent, publish minutes 18:47:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/29-ua-minutes.html oedipus 18:47:48 regrets+ Jan_Richards 18:47:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:47:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/29-ua-minutes.html oedipus 18:47:59 rrsagent, publish minutes 18:47:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/29-ua-minutes.html oedipus 18:48:46 azkim, please part 18:48:51 zakim, please part 18:48:51 Zakim has left #ua 18:49:02 rrsagent, please part 18:49:02 I see no action items