14:00:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:00:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-irc
14:00:02 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs member
14:00:05 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:00:05 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot-ng
14:00:07 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:00:09 <trackbot-ng> Date: 02 October 2007
14:00:23 <jo> zakim, list conferences
14:00:23 <Zakim> I see IA_Team()9:00AM, SEC_WSCWG()8:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM, MM_InkML()9:00AM active
14:00:25 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are WS_DBWG()10:00AM, Team_(team-day)13:02Z, T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM, IA_REX-PAG()10:00AM
14:01:28 <jo> rrsagent, off
14:04:04 <jo> Meeting: Content Transformation Task Force
14:04:07 <jo> Chair: Jo
14:04:53 <Zakim> +Rob
14:05:43 <jo> zakim, who is here?
14:05:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see jo, SeanP, Rob
14:05:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Andrew, RRSAgent, SeanPatterson, Zakim, jo, trackbot-ng
14:06:11 <jo> zakim, Rob is really Andrew
14:06:11 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
14:06:53 <jo> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Oct/0002.html
14:07:23 <jo> rrrsagent, make logs public
14:07:36 <jo> rrsagent, make logs public
14:07:43 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-minutes.html jo
14:08:04 <jo> s/rrrsagent, make logs public//
14:08:35 <jo> Regrets: Rhys
14:08:48 <jo> Present: Jo, SeanP, Andrew
14:10:37 <jo> scribenick: SeanPatterson
14:11:07 <jo> Topic: Review of Action Items
14:11:13 <jo> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/products/12
14:12:04 <SeanPatterson> ACTION-550
14:12:56 <SeanPatterson> Feedback from several people
14:13:10 <jo> Jo: Comments on how to take proposed text forward
14:13:54 <jo> SeanP: Have a response prepared to your comment (Jo) and am preparing responses to others
14:14:18 <jo> ... how do we handle this usually
14:14:52 <jo> jo: not unusual to have divergent views and not unhealthy at this stage
14:15:22 <jo> sean: will post responses with a view to driving forward on some consensus
14:16:10 <jo> ... will try to get stuff out over this week
14:17:01 <jo> Topic: ACTION-551
14:18:30 <SeanPatterson> Jo: Aaron has made a contribution on 9/27
14:18:50 <SeanPatterson> s/27/22
14:19:21 <SeanPatterson> It was an outline of section 2.3
14:19:36 <SeanPatterson> s/It/... It
14:19:49 <SeanPatterson> Jo: No comments yet so we can't do anything yet.
14:19:56 <SeanPatterson> Topic: ACTION-552
14:20:12 <SeanPatterson> Andrew: Apologize for tardy response.  Has some notes.
14:20:24 <SeanPatterson> Jo: Go ahead and send the notes.
14:20:44 <SeanPatterson> Andrew: Aware of amout of discussion of topic.
14:21:01 <SeanPatterson> ... Will get contribution in by next conf. call.
14:21:13 <SeanPatterson> Jo: Aware of discussion as well.
14:21:38 <SeanPatterson> Topic: ACTION-557
14:21:50 <SeanPatterson> Jo: On me.  Can close that.
14:22:07 <SeanPatterson> Topic: ACTION-558
14:22:15 <SeanPatterson> Jo: On Andrew.
14:22:43 <SeanPatterson> Andrew: Sometimes don't get actions sent to me.
14:23:23 <SeanPatterson> Andrew: Sometimes doesn't get each email to mailing list.
14:23:35 <SeanPatterson> Jo:  Looks like there is a problem on Andrew's end.
14:23:50 <SeanPatterson> Andrew:  Will check archives for email messages.
14:24:25 <SeanPatterson> Andrew: Has raised issue; no contributions yet.
14:24:38 <SeanPatterson> Jo: Can't close yet--mark it as pending.
14:25:13 <SeanPatterson> Andrew: Sent an email on this action on 9/25.
14:25:22 <SeanPatterson> Jo:  Not showing up on Trackbot.
14:25:44 <SeanPatterson> Jo:  It did show up on Trackbot.
14:26:13 <SeanPatterson> Topic: ACTION-556
14:26:26 <SeanPatterson> s/556/566
14:26:34 <SeanPatterson> Jo: Have done half of this.
14:26:45 <SeanPatterson> Topic: ACTION-567
14:27:11 <SeanPatterson> Jo: On Rhys, can't talk about this.
14:27:30 <jo> s/can't talk about this./he did that
14:27:55 <jo> ACTION: Jo to find out what has happened to the zakim slot
14:27:55 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-572 - Find out what has happened to the zakim slot [on Jo Rabin - due 2007-10-09].
14:28:14 <jo> Topic: Sean's Contribution
14:28:40 <jo> (Jo notes that we are not quorate for a decision but useful to discuss)
14:30:27 <jo> (Andrew notes debate and noted that there is a body of opinion in favour of preserving original user agent, asks Sean for comment on the problems with that)
14:31:18 <jo> Sean: main problem is that lots of web servers that return nothing or "please upgrade browser if you send the original user agent
14:31:33 <jo> Andrew: any idea of how many sites do this
14:32:26 <jo> ... i.e. either we have a problem with blocking sites or with mobile sites whichever way we do it so it would be useful to know some numbers
14:33:27 <jo> Sean: ... the long tail of the Web won't change, whereas mobile sites are assumed to be still under maintenance and so greater possibility of change
14:33:45 <jo> ... I iwll ask for whatever data on this
14:33:52 <jo> s/iwll/will/
14:34:15 <jo> Andrew: It would be useful if other WG colleagues could get a fix on this
14:35:37 <jo> ... I note that dotMobi is doing "find" has dotMobi got any data on this
14:36:10 <jo> Jo: yes, lots, so has google I expect, I'll what I can do, may be in confidence if I can get anything
14:36:32 <jo> s/I'll see what/
14:37:03 <jo> s/I'll what/I'll see what
14:37:13 <jo> Topic: non standard headers
14:37:30 <jo> Andrew: wonder if we should use non-standard headers at all
14:38:03 <jo> ... should we use the Via instead of X-Mobile-Gateway
14:38:22 <jo> Sean: the problem is that the comment field can be stripped from Via
14:39:07 <jo> ... I know that Jo proposed a way of using Via, but there could be quite a lot of info we want to add
14:39:30 <jo> ... which would be hard to do using Jo's proposal
14:39:50 <jo> ... e.g. multiple transformations servers - etc. 
14:42:38 <jo> jo: I know we have been talking specifically at the HTTP header level, necessarily because that's what a lot of the discussion is about, but I think we should actually focus our efforts on developing Magnus's work - i.e. first figure out who is saying what to whom, and then gigure how that maps to HTTP headers, existing or otherwise
14:42:57 <jo> sean: i agree with that approach
14:43:50 <jo> jo: I think we can state in principle we prefer not to invent new HTTP headers but can't decide for now whether that is achievable or not
14:43:51 <Andrew> s/gigure/figure/
14:45:40 <jo> ... I suggested 8 different use cases for analysis of who needs to say what to whom
14:46:06 <jo> ... but better to have that discussion by email
14:46:22 <jo> Sean: Would prefer Magnus to be present
14:46:46 <jo> Topic: Vary Header
14:47:09 <SeanPatterson> Andrew: Jo, could you explain your use of Vary header--thought that i could only be used in the context of cache
14:47:35 <SeanPatterson> Jo: Can use Vary header for CT
14:48:04 <SeanPatterson> ... Says that server has variance of a particular URI
14:48:22 <SeanPatterson> ... is useful for saying that a server is an adapting server
14:48:45 <SeanPatterson> ... certainly does no harm of including it
14:48:57 <SeanPatterson> Andrew:  I think you are correct
14:49:13 <SeanPatterson> Jo: At dotMobi we have suggested that people use it.
14:49:44 <SeanPatterson> ... If you masquerade the user agent and got back a Vary header, you know that you are in trouble
14:50:12 <SeanPatterson> ...We've held off (at dotMobi) in making recommendations because of this group
14:50:51 <jo> Sean: I agree that the Vary header can be used for that purpose
14:51:16 <jo> ... it's a reasonable use of it to signal that there are different representations
14:52:12 <Zakim> -Andrew
14:52:13 <Zakim> -jo
14:52:14 <Zakim> -SeanP
14:52:16 <Zakim> Team_(bpwg)14:01Z has ended
14:52:17 <Zakim> Attendees were jo, SeanP, Andrew
14:52:40 <jo> [jo: at dotMobi we wanted the actions of the trancoding proxy  to be figured out in this group]
14:52:49 <jo> Topic: AOB
14:52:52 <jo> [none]
14:53:04 <Zakim> Team_(bpwg)14:01Z has now started
14:53:04 <jo> [call closed at 15:52 BST]
14:53:13 <Zakim> +Magnus_Lonnroth
14:53:13 <Zakim> -Magnus_Lonnroth
14:53:14 <Zakim> Team_(bpwg)14:01Z has ended
14:53:15 <Zakim> Attendees were Magnus_Lonnroth
14:53:35 <jo> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:53:35 <Zakim> apparently Team_(bpwg)14:01Z has ended, jo
14:53:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see Andrew, RRSAgent, SeanPatterson, Zakim, jo, trackbot-ng
14:54:11 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-minutes.html jo
14:54:31 <jo> zakim, bye
14:54:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #bpwg
14:55:25 <Magnus> Magnus has joined #bpwg
14:55:32 <jo> rrsagent, off
15:01:39 <jo> s/google/Google/
15:02:53 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-minutes.html jo
15:04:40 <jo> rrsagent, bye
15:04:40 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-actions.rdf :
15:04:40 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jo to find out what has happened to the zakim slot [1]
15:04:40 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/02-bpwg-irc#T14-27-55