12:47:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xmlsec
12:47:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-irc
12:47:44 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xmlsec
12:47:56 <fjh> Zakim, this will be XMLSEC
12:47:56 <Zakim> ok, fjh; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
12:48:19 <fjh> Meeting: XML Security Specifications Maintenance WG Conference Call
12:48:30 <fjh> Chair: Frederick Hirsch
12:49:31 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0066.html
12:52:41 <jcc> jcc has joined #xmlsec
12:53:19 <rdmiller> rdmiller has joined #xmlsec
12:55:37 <rdmiller> I will not be able to attend the call today. Sorry for the late notice.
12:55:49 <sean> sean has joined #xmlsec
12:56:04 <fjh> Regrets: Rob Miller, Phill Hallam-Baker
12:56:43 <Zakim> T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has now started
12:56:49 <Zakim> +Frederick_Hirsch
12:58:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:59:12 <Zakim> +sean
12:59:35 <Zakim> +bruce
13:00:02 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
13:00:02 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
13:00:02 <hal> hal has joined #xmlsec
13:00:04 <Zakim> +Thomas
13:00:14 <klanz2> klanz2 has joined #xmlsec
13:00:29 <klanz2> zakim, what is code
13:00:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what is code', klanz2
13:00:37 <tlr> zakim, code?
13:00:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), tlr
13:00:37 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:00:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, [IPcaller], sean, bruce, Thomas
13:00:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see klanz2, hal, sean, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:00:47 <Zakim> +Hal_Lockhart
13:02:25 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is Juan Carlos
13:02:25 <Zakim> I don't understand '[IPcaller] is Juan Carlos', fjh
13:02:34 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:02:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, [IPcaller], sean, bruce, Thomas, Hal_Lockhart
13:02:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see klanz2, hal, sean, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:02:40 <tlr> zakim, IPcaller is Juan Carlos
13:02:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'IPcaller is Juan Carlos', tlr
13:02:44 <tlr> zakim, IPcaller is jcc
13:02:44 <Zakim> +jcc; got it
13:02:57 <tlr> zakim got confused about the space ...
13:03:03 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0066.html
13:03:03 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0066.html
13:03:38 <Zakim> +??P5
13:03:44 <klanz2> zakim, ? is klnaz2
13:03:44 <Zakim> +klnaz2; got it
13:03:49 <tlr> ScribeNick: tlr
13:04:13 <tlr> zakim, lknaz2 is really klanz2
13:04:14 <Zakim> sorry, tlr, I do not recognize a party named 'lknaz2'
13:04:20 <tlr> zakim, klnaz2 is really klanz2
13:04:26 <Zakim> +klanz2; got it
13:05:16 <brich> brich has joined #xmlsec
13:05:50 <tlr> RESOLUTION: last week's minutes approved, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Aug/0016.html
13:05:55 <tlr> Topic: action item review
13:06:32 <tlr> jcc: test cases for scheme-based xpointers ??
13:06:38 <tlr> ... section 3.5 ...
13:06:42 <fjh> looking at this mail - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007Jul/0054.html
13:06:44 <tlr> ... document contains comments ...
13:07:00 <tlr> ... test case described about using xpointers and barenames ...
13:07:01 <tlr> q+
13:07:08 <tlr> ... thought this action was completed ...
13:07:13 <fjh> ack tlr
13:07:23 <tlr> ScribeNick: brich
13:07:47 <klanz2> JC are you talking about this: http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-SchemaBasedXPointers
13:07:59 <tlr> thanks klanz for the pointer, I was looking for that
13:08:51 <jcc> The signature will be an enveloping signature. The enveloped document will be the one shown at the begininning of this section. The value of the URI attribute will be "xpointer(id("e1ID"))"
13:09:48 <brich> zakim, who is here
13:09:48 <Zakim> brich, you need to end that query with '?'
13:09:50 <tlr> +1 to closing this action
13:10:04 <brich> zakim, who is here?
13:10:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, jcc, sean, bruce, Thomas, Hal_Lockhart, klanz2
13:10:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see brich, klanz2, hal, sean, jcc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
13:10:07 <tlr> brich, you don't need to use the IRC nick name, something that matches the person should work.
13:10:31 <tlr> ACTION-65 closed
13:10:31 <trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet
13:10:37 <brich> action 68 close
13:10:47 <tlr> s/ACTION-65 closed//
13:11:08 <brich> ACTION 68 closed
13:11:22 <brich> ACTION-71 open
13:11:41 <brich> ACTION-68 closed
13:11:41 <trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet
13:11:52 <fjh> action 68 closed
13:12:42 <fjh> action 75 done, 3.6.1
13:12:45 <jcc> 3.6.1 Test cases on differences identified in RFC 2253 and RFC 4514
13:12:57 <brich> ACTION: 68 close
13:12:57 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - 68
13:13:00 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-DistinguishedName-RFC2253-RFC4514
13:13:08 <tlr> rrsagent, drop action 1
13:13:24 <tlr> brich, if you start with "ACTION: ", you create a new action item, which in this case was on 68 to close :)
13:13:46 <fjh> action 74 open
13:14:15 <klanz2> 82, 83 keep open ...
13:14:21 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-skype
13:14:21 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
13:14:23 <Zakim> +Thomas
13:14:24 <brich> ACTION 75 closed
13:14:38 <Zakim> -Thomas
13:14:51 <klanz2> 82, 83 keep open ...
13:15:39 <brich> ACTION 84 closed
13:15:52 <tlr> zakim, who is making noise?
13:15:54 <fjh> action 84 was for minuts of 21 AUG
13:16:03 <Zakim> tlr, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Frederick_Hirsch (64%), sean (33%), klanz2 (15%), Thomas (9%)
13:16:06 <klanz2> can you excuse me for 3 minutes, I'll be right back
13:16:09 <tlr> zakim, mute sean
13:16:09 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
13:16:12 <tlr> zakim, mute klanz2
13:16:12 <brich> ACTION 85 closed
13:16:12 <Zakim> klanz2 should now be muted
13:16:18 <brich> ACTION 86 closed
13:16:54 <brich> TOPIC: workshop
13:17:05 <klanz2> back
13:17:13 <tlr> klanz2, you're muted since there was background noise
13:17:19 <klanz2> no prob
13:17:20 <tlr> sean, you'Re muted too, since there was background noise
13:17:23 <klanz2> sorry
13:17:48 <klanz2> no
13:17:50 <tlr> I was just telling people they're muted.
13:20:34 <klanz2> q+
13:20:44 <fjh> ack tlr
13:20:48 <fjh> ack Thomas
13:20:54 <tlr> q- thomas
13:20:54 <fjh> ack klanz
13:20:56 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:20:56 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:21:17 <klanz2> line dropped ?
13:21:19 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
13:21:19 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
13:21:27 <Zakim> -klanz2
13:21:49 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:21:49 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:22:22 <Zakim> +??P5
13:22:26 <klanz2> zakim, ? is klanz2
13:22:26 <Zakim> +klanz2; got it
13:23:35 <brich> invitations sent, not much in the way of responses yet
13:23:50 <tlr> nothing else to add...
13:24:08 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
13:24:08 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
13:24:17 <klanz2> I like the term freefall ;-)
13:24:47 <brich> interop format question
13:25:34 <brich> looking for some structure, but relatively free-form so far
13:26:47 <fjh> will want to produce interop test matrix summarizing results, also summarize issues
13:27:24 <tlr> topic: test cases / interop
13:27:25 <brich> TOPIC: interop testcases
13:27:32 <klanz2> q+
13:27:44 <fjh> ack klanz
13:28:40 <brich> simple testcases for c14n11 being selected (possibly to go to xml core)
13:28:43 <fjh> +1 to separate c14n11 alone cases 
13:29:04 <brich> so some for just c14n11, some for dsig
13:29:17 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:29:17 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:29:22 <klanz2>  http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html
13:29:40 <fjh> klanz2: created stand alone test case directories, also updated test cases document accordingly
13:29:44 <tlr> I'd suggest the public list for technical discussion.
13:30:00 <fjh> +1 to public list
13:30:34 <fjh> c14n11 cases http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases-Can-XMLAttributes
13:31:07 <klanz2> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#XMLLANG
13:32:01 <fjh> ... links in table lead to source documents
13:32:52 <fjh> ... tests in 3.2 can also be done in 3.3 in context of signature as well
13:33:55 <brich> klanz2: will continue to update document listed in link above
13:34:41 <sean> zakim, unmute me
13:34:41 <Zakim> sean should no longer be muted
13:35:04 <klanz2> zakim, mute me
13:35:04 <Zakim> klanz2 should now be muted
13:35:20 <klanz2> zakim, unmute me
13:35:20 <Zakim> klanz2 should no longer be muted
13:35:28 <fjh> sean: generated sigs for xml:lang, xml:id and xml:space
13:36:29 <tlr> q+
13:36:46 <fjh> ack Thomas
13:36:59 <sean> zakim. mute me
13:37:06 <sean> zakim, mute me
13:37:06 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
13:37:15 <klanz2> zakim, mute me
13:37:15 <Zakim> klanz2 should now be muted
13:37:25 <brich> klanz2: suggest report to core will just be c14n11, not dsig
13:38:21 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:38:21 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:38:31 <klanz2> zakim, unmute me
13:38:31 <Zakim> klanz2 should no longer be muted
13:38:34 <klanz2> q+
13:38:55 <brich> tlr: original issues were raised in context of dsig, not c14n alone
13:39:02 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
13:39:02 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
13:39:44 <fjh> tlr: dealing with partial document c14N11 seems to be use case within dsig context
13:40:08 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:40:08 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:40:09 <jcc> q+
13:40:27 <tlr> I'm not feeling strongly either way.
13:40:44 <fjh> q+
13:40:53 <fjh> ack klanz
13:41:02 <fjh> ack jcc
13:41:31 <tlr> I won't keep anybody from doing more test cases :)
13:41:45 <fjh> jcc: in favor of keeping stand alone c14n11 test cases
13:42:08 <fjh> ... useful to have independent test cases, easier to detect issues
13:42:29 <tlr> q+ to ask whether we're sure everybody has the necessary APIs to test the standalone document subset cases
13:43:18 <fjh> klanz2: dom uses c14n
13:43:22 <fjh> ack fjh
13:43:43 <fjh> ack Thomas
13:43:44 <Zakim> Thomas, you wanted to ask whether we're sure everybody has the necessary APIs to test the standalone document subset cases
13:43:55 <sean> I don't think it should be a requirement to pass standalone c14n cases
13:44:12 <fjh> +1 to standalone c14n11 use cases, if feasible and practical to do
13:44:57 <klanz2> q+
13:45:10 <fjh> ack klanz
13:45:18 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:45:18 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:45:42 <sean> q+
13:46:06 <fjh> ack sean
13:46:51 <brich> q+
13:47:03 <fjh> sean: ok for standalone cases, but should not be required test matrix case
13:47:13 <fjh> ack brich
13:47:39 <sean> zakim, mute me
13:47:39 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
13:47:44 <fjh> brich: +1 to sean, useful to have, e.g. for debugging, but not a requirement
13:47:48 <tlr> q+
13:47:53 <fjh> ack Thomas
13:48:23 <fjh> q+ purpose of interop for spec testing, not conformance test?
13:48:42 <fjh> q+ purpose of interop for spec testing not conformance test?
13:48:55 <fjh> q+ not conformance test but spec test
13:48:59 <fjh> q+
13:49:11 <sean> zakim, unmute me
13:49:11 <Zakim> sean should no longer be muted
13:49:21 <fjh> ack fjh
13:49:57 <brich> tlr: what will the output from the interop look like, want matchup in functions tested
13:50:24 <tlr> q+
13:52:25 <fjh> ack Thomas
13:52:52 <sean> zakim, mute me
13:52:52 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
13:53:25 <brich> klanz2: separation of testcases allows reporting of subset c14n to interested parties
13:54:29 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:54:29 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:54:35 <brich> tlr: +1 to have two ways to test, one for c14n and one in a dsig env.
13:54:41 <fjh> klanz2: single table entry that has both c14n11 standalone and sig with same input
13:54:45 <tlr> "do it" also meaning to have the linked test cases
13:56:53 <tlr> ACTION: klanz2 to document approach to subset expressions in a README file along with the test cases
13:56:54 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-87 - Document approach to subset expressions in a README file along with the test cases [on Konrad Lanz - due 2007-09-11].
13:57:21 <sean> zakim, unmute me
13:57:22 <Zakim> sean should no longer be muted
13:58:45 <sean> zakim, mute me
13:58:45 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
13:58:57 <sean> q+
13:59:08 <brich> tlr: question about value of negative testcases
13:59:08 <sean> +1 to negative test cases
13:59:14 <tlr> s/tlr/frederick/
13:59:24 <klanz2> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmlsig-interop-doc/testcases.html#TestCases.xmldsig_c14n11
13:59:30 <sean> zakim, unmute me
13:59:30 <Zakim> sean should no longer be muted
13:59:32 <fjh> ack sean
14:00:18 <klanz2> q+
14:00:32 <fjh> ack klanz
14:00:59 <fjh> klanz: what about implementation that always returns true for all sigs
14:01:15 <fjh> hal: but produce sig value...
14:01:38 <sean> zakim, mute me
14:01:38 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
14:01:59 <tlr> q+
14:03:49 <fjh> ack Thomas
14:05:28 <fjh> tlr: do we need test case to discern c14n10 and c14n11 implementations, not negative case per se
14:06:37 <tlr> the hashing / looking at output documents obviates need for negative test cases.
14:06:53 <tlr> We just don't want to have a test suite that yes(1) can pass
14:08:59 <fjh> note - issue for discern c14n10 and c14n11
14:09:12 <klanz2> ;-)
14:10:28 <fjh> ACTION: jcc to remove negative test cases from test case document, save in repository in new document
14:10:28 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-88 - Remove negative test cases from test case document, save in repository in new document [on Juan Carlos Cruellas - due 2007-09-11].
14:11:18 <tlr> zakim, mute me
14:11:18 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
14:12:08 <klanz2> What about existing, test cases? Merlin an so on ...
14:12:15 <brich> q+
14:12:37 <fjh> ack brich
14:12:48 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
14:12:48 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
14:13:17 <sean> q+
14:13:31 <fjh> ack sean
14:13:54 <klanz2> @brich: http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/c14n11/
14:14:19 <klanz2> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/interop/xmldsig/c14n11/
14:14:39 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
14:14:39 <Zakim> Thomas was not muted, tlr
14:16:31 <brich> sean: do we send out reminder about interop?
14:16:58 <sean> zakim, mute me
14:16:58 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
14:18:59 <brich> fjh: need stable draft of interop doc by next week
14:20:51 <brich> klanz2: what IPR applies to contributed testcases? can we unpack zip?
14:21:49 <fjh> ACTION: tlr to review whether original XML Sig test cases can be used for derivative work (IPR etc), e.g. merlin.zip
14:21:49 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-89 - Review whether original XML Sig test cases can be used for derivative work (IPR etc), e.g. merlin.zip [on Thomas Roessler - due 2007-09-11].
14:22:14 <Zakim> -klanz2
14:22:26 <klanz2> sorry, I was dropped, Ihate my viop client ;-(
14:22:46 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/2004/10/27-testcases.html
14:22:57 <klanz2> zakim, what is the code?
14:22:57 <Zakim> the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), klanz2
14:23:10 <Zakim> +??P5
14:23:13 <klanz2> back
14:23:24 <klanz2> zakim, ? is klanz2
14:23:24 <Zakim> +klanz2; got it
14:23:52 <brich> fjh: are we going to remove duplicate tests?
14:23:53 <sean> q+
14:23:55 <tlr> zakim, mute me
14:23:55 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
14:24:01 <fjh> acck
14:24:02 <fjh> ac
14:24:05 <fjh> ack sean
14:24:46 <brich> sean: not worth work to remove
14:24:48 <sean> zakim, mute me
14:24:48 <Zakim> sean should now be muted
14:24:55 <brich> TOPIC: best practices
14:25:53 <brich> fjh: trying to use wiki for this pupose, lacks weight of a document
14:26:35 <brich> fjh: suggest continued use of wiki, pending different decision
14:26:45 <Zakim> -sean
14:26:51 <klanz2> bye bye
14:26:54 <Zakim> -Hal_Lockhart
14:26:56 <Zakim> -jcc
14:26:59 <jcc> exit
14:27:01 <Zakim> -klanz2
14:27:07 <jcc> jcc has left #xmlsec
14:27:39 <fjh> Zakim, list participants
14:27:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Frederick_Hirsch, sean, bruce, Thomas, Hal_Lockhart, jcc, klanz2
14:27:49 <fjh> RRSAgent, make log public
14:27:58 <fjh> RRSAgent, generate minutes
14:27:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-minutes.html fjh
14:28:27 <tlr> buce, request for your CVS access is out
14:29:33 <fjh> public mail list public-xmlsec-maintwg
14:29:45 <fjh> archive http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/
14:30:24 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
14:30:24 <Zakim> Thomas should no longer be muted
14:30:57 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:30:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Frederick_Hirsch, bruce, Thomas
14:30:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see brich, klanz2, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, trackbot-ng
14:31:14 <tlr> http://www.w3.org/Project/CVSdoc/http://www.w3.org/Project/CVSdoc/
14:32:49 <Zakim> -bruce
14:32:50 <Zakim> -Frederick_Hirsch
14:33:00 <fjh> zakim, bye
14:33:00 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Frederick_Hirsch, sean, bruce, Thomas, Hal_Lockhart, jcc, klanz2
14:33:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #xmlsec
14:33:10 <fjh> rrsagent, bye
14:33:10 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-actions.rdf :
14:33:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: klanz2 to document approach to subset expressions in a README file along with the test cases [2]
14:33:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-irc#T13-56-53
14:33:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jcc to remove negative test cases from test case document, save in repository in new document [3]
14:33:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-irc#T14-10-28
14:33:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tlr to review whether original XML Sig test cases can be used for derivative work (IPR etc), e.g. merlin.zip [4]
14:33:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/04-xmlsec-irc#T14-21-49