15:03:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:03:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc
15:03:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swd
15:03:15 <RalphS> zakim, this is swd
15:03:16 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; that matches SW_SWD()11:00AM
15:03:43 <Zakim> +[LC.aa]
15:03:50 <Zakim> +Ralph
15:03:56 <Zakim> +??P5
15:04:05 <berrueta> zakim, ??P5 is me
15:04:05 <Zakim> +berrueta; got it
15:04:16 <RalphS> Meeting: SemWeb Deployment WG
15:04:22 <seanb> seanb has joined #swd
15:04:51 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0039.html
15:05:00 <Zakim> +??P51
15:05:18 <Zakim> +??P52
15:05:19 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html previous 2007-08-21
15:05:24 <RalphS> zakim, ??p51 is Vit
15:05:24 <Zakim> +Vit; got it
15:05:36 <RalphS> zakim, ??p52 is Sean
15:05:36 <Zakim> +Sean; got it
15:05:40 <RalphS> zakim, who's on the call?
15:05:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see benadida, [LC], [LC.a], +1.317.031.aaaa, [LC.aa], Ralph, berrueta, Vit, Sean
15:06:18 <Zakim> +Guus
15:06:25 <RalphS> zakim, who's talking?
15:06:38 <Zakim> RalphS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [LC.aa] (79%)
15:06:46 <RalphS> zakim, lc.aa is Clay
15:06:46 <Zakim> +Clay; got it
15:06:59 <RalphS> Chair: Guus
15:07:04 <RalphS> Scribenick: benadida
15:07:08 <RalphS> Scribe: Ben
15:07:49 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:07:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see benadida, [LC], [LC.a], +1.317.031.aaaa, Clay, Ralph, berrueta, Vit, Sean, Guus
15:07:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see seanb, Zakim, RRSAgent, Clay, RalphS, berrueta, Antoine, vit, ed, Guus, benadida
15:08:13 <RalphS> zakim, aaaa is Antoine
15:08:13 <Zakim> +Antoine; got it
15:08:42 <RalphS> zakim, lc.a is Ed
15:08:42 <Zakim> +Ed; got it
15:08:46 <RalphS> zakim, lc is Justin
15:08:46 <Zakim> +Justin; got it
15:09:24 <benadida> Topic: Admin
15:09:32 <benadida> Guus: propose to accept minutes from last week
15:09:38 <benadida> no objections, ACCEPTED
15:09:44 <RalphS> Regrets: Tom, Elisa, Bernard
15:10:00 <benadida> ... next telecons Sep 4 and 11
15:10:09 <RalphS> Regrets+ Alistair
15:10:17 <benadida> ... f2f meeting agenda: http://www.few.vu.nl/~aisaac/swd/
15:10:25 <benadida> s/agenda/logistics/
15:10:26 <RalphS> Regrets+ Simone
15:10:35 <benadida> ... f2f meeting agenda: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/AmsterdamAgenda
15:10:37 <RalphS> Regrets+ Jon
15:10:43 <benadida> ... registration: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39408/swd-ftf-adam-registration/
15:10:55 <benadida> ... questions about f2f? seeing none, actions.
15:11:20 <benadida> Topic: RDFa
15:11:32 <RalphS> scribenick: ralphs
15:12:05 <RalphS> Ben: the task force has been extremely busy resolving lots of issues over the past few weeks
15:12:17 <RalphS> ... I've sent a few status updates on these
15:12:38 <RalphS> ... we have a number of implementations, including one by Ivan Herman
15:12:55 <RalphS> ... Ivan reported that he found it fairly easy to implement
15:13:09 <RalphS> ... however the documents have not kept up with the issue resolution
15:13:28 <RalphS> ... the implementations are now being updated to sync with the issue resolution
15:13:34 <RalphS> ... and we're pushing forward on the documents
15:13:43 <RalphS> ... hope to have new editors' drafts by the f2f
15:13:50 <RalphS> Guus: we owe revised drafts to the public
15:14:17 <RalphS> Ben: the good news is that we're getting increased interest from other communities and we're not really doing much outreach
15:14:40 <RalphS> ... e.g. the hAudio community is providing useful feedback and implementations of RDFa sample data
15:14:52 <RalphS> ... definitely we need to get the specifications up to date
15:15:12 <RalphS> Guus: I suppose you're not yet in Last Call state?
15:15:24 <RalphS> Ben: no, we're not.  I don't have a precise schedule yet
15:15:38 <RalphS> ... we're working on a revamped Primer and pushing forward on the Syntax spec
15:15:45 <RalphS> ... the Syntax spec is the one Rec-track document
15:15:55 <RalphS> ... hope to have a very solid editors' draft by the 3rd week of September
15:16:18 <RalphS> Guus: it makes sense to have RDFa on the f2f agenda if we have an editors' draft to review 2 weeks before
15:16:42 <RalphS> ... it doesn't have to be the Last Call version
15:16:58 <RalphS> Ben: we really have resolved a lot of the issues so it's just a matter of getting it written down
15:17:32 <RalphS> Guus: do both WGs need to approve the publication?
15:17:55 <RalphS> Ralph: perhaps, but I certainly think SWD should review and consent to publish
15:18:00 <RalphS> Guus: yes, SWD should approve
15:18:18 <RalphS> Ben: the Syntax document will be the core document
15:18:53 <RalphS> Guus: we need reviewers from the WG who have not been part of the task force
15:19:13 <RalphS> Diego: I am willing to review the spec
15:19:20 <RalphS> Justin: I also am willing to review the spec
15:19:36 <dlrubin> dlrubin has joined #swd
15:20:10 <RalphS> Ben: I will send a note when the editors' draft is ready for review
15:20:15 <RalphS> ... will likely be in 3 weeks
15:21:07 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to bring up the HTML WG review of RDFa syntax with Steven
15:22:03 <RalphS> Guus: we should formally decide at the face-to-face whether the RDFa Syntax document is Rec-track
15:22:08 <RalphS> Ben: I thought we'd decided this
15:22:26 <RalphS> Guus: we should proceed as if it is Rec-track but the WG hasn't formally decided yet
15:22:39 <RalphS> ... hearing the implementation reports is, however, very encouraging
15:22:49 <RalphS> ACTION: ralph to raise RDFa on f2f agenda question in RDFa telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action07]
15:22:52 <RalphS> -- done
15:23:03 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0034.html Ralph's report
15:23:27 <RalphS> Ben: Steven Pemberton and Mark Birbeck are likely to attend the f2f
15:23:41 <RalphS> ... I will arrange to call in
15:24:27 <RalphS> ... I expect at most 4 hours for RDFa
15:24:39 <RalphS> ... 2 hours to discuss the spec, more if people want to see demos and discuss more
15:24:53 <RalphS> Guus: tentatively I suggest we schedule the afternoon of the second day
15:25:09 <RalphS> ... and potentially reserve time to discuss issues in smaller groups
15:25:47 <RalphS> ... I imagine that Tuesday morning may have breakouts to discuss SKOS issues from Monday, so it may be feasible to have a small RDFa breakout in parallel
15:26:16 <RalphS> ... I'd also like a report on test cases for RDFa
15:26:32 <RalphS> Ben: yes, Michael Hausenblas has been working on test cases
15:26:40 <RalphS> ... we've approved 35 tests already
15:26:56 <RalphS> ... we expect to add more tests
15:27:20 <RalphS> ... the test cases give the XHTML+RDFa input, a SPARQL query, and the expected results
15:28:18 <benadida> scribenick: benadida
15:28:25 <benadida> Topic: SKOS
15:28:58 <benadida> Guus: "drawing the pictures" --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0016.html
15:29:42 <Antoine> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/36
15:30:08 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/35 issue 35; owned by Sean
15:30:15 <Zakim> -berrueta
15:30:59 <Zakim> +luis_polo
15:31:09 <berrueta> Zakim: luis_polo is me
15:31:24 <benadida> ... agreement last week was for Elisa to report a preliminary report for f2f, but no resolution
15:31:33 <RalphS> [[tomb: ideally progress on drawing pictures before meeting, but ideally done f2f. propose we put that first in the agenda, item on drawing the picture.]] -- http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html
15:32:05 <benadida> ... leave this for later
15:32:26 <benadida> Guus: ISSUE 35: ConceptSchemeContainment
15:32:33 <benadida> --> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/36
15:32:46 <RalphS> s/36/35
15:32:51 <benadida> ... reading up on SPARQL named graphs
15:33:03 <benadida> ... which parts of the graph have a particular authority, trust issues.
15:33:37 <benadida> ... you can make statements about graphs at a particular location
15:33:58 <benadida> ... can make statements about authority of graph
15:34:28 <benadida> ... most vocabularies will be spread over multiple RDF documents.
15:34:42 <benadida> ... need to declare that a vocab is multiple graphs, or use OWL import
15:34:55 <benadida> Sean: haven't looked at this named graph piece
15:35:19 <benadida> ... are OWL import and vocab composed of multiple graphs same issue?
15:35:52 <benadida> Guus: in SPARQL, you can have a named graph (by a URI)
15:36:06 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
15:36:09 <benadida> ... if you want one name / one graph, then it seems necessary to use OWL import
15:37:19 <benadida> Antoine: something specific to deal with inScheme?
15:37:48 <benadida> Guus: we can provide a guideline for using named graph, a dual solution.
15:37:53 <RalphS> s/35: Concept/36: Concept/
15:38:12 <benadida> ... keep conceptscheme, inscheme, skosconcept. If you want to define which relationships, use named graphs
15:38:13 <RalphS> (Ed correctly notes that we're discussing issue 36 here; agenda had a typo)
15:38:23 <benadida> ... not ideal, but it is a solution
15:38:53 <benadida> ... hope we can resolve this issue without changing current spec
15:39:57 <benadida> ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about the issue of containment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] 
15:40:00 <benadida> --continues
15:40:06 <benadida> ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04].
15:40:08 <benadida> --continues
15:40:13 <benadida> ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05] 
15:40:15 <benadida> --continues
15:40:21 <benadida> ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] 
15:40:23 <benadida> --continues
15:40:32 <Antoine> q+ to ask about call for comments for SKOS UCR
15:41:00 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/AmsterdamAgenda [draft] F2F Agenda
15:41:56 <benadida> Antoine: on conceptsemantics, would like to browse mail on mailing list. Much discussion on mixing SKOS with OWL.
15:42:07 <benadida> ... would like to summarize at f2f, with possible solutions.
15:42:10 <benadida> ... no progress at moment.
15:43:16 <benadida> (scribe missed some of this discussion.)
15:43:29 <benadida> Guus: can you write this as a "guideline on how to handle this."
15:43:36 <benadida> ... reuse it for our spec
15:44:41 <benadida> Sean: ISSUE-44, sematnics of broader / narrower
15:44:52 <benadida> s/sematnics/semantics/
15:45:12 <benadida> ACTION: Guus to update the f2f agenda
15:45:39 <benadida> Topic: Recipes
15:46:06 <benadida> Guus: will recipes need f2f time?
15:46:08 <benadida> Diego: yes
15:46:22 <benadida> Guus: need updated editors' draft
15:46:34 <benadida> Diego: not sure if update can be done in time for f2f.
15:47:07 <benadida> Guus: discuss either bottleneck issues or updated editors' draft
15:47:21 <benadida> Diego: one particularly tricky issue, no need to discuss editing.
15:48:35 <benadida> ACTION: Diego to prepare a f2f agenda topic for recipes 
15:49:27 <benadida> ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]
15:49:30 <benadida> --continues
15:49:44 <benadida> Topic: Vocabulary Management
15:50:07 <vit> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0037.html
15:50:22 <benadida> Vit: proposed topic for discussion
15:51:43 <benadida> (scribe missed a bit of Vit's explanation)
15:52:08 <benadida> Guus: reference implementation is important
15:52:24 <benadida> Vit: still problems with semantic diff and versioning implementation
15:53:26 <benadida> Guus: let's have an agenda 1-2 weeks before f2f, then we can make time for it.
15:53:30 <benadida> ... by 23 september
15:53:52 <benadida> Ralph: also Elisa's draft, introduced last week. Worth spending some f2f time reviewing.
15:54:05 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/VocabMgtDraft Elisa's draft of Basic Principles for Managing an RDF Vocabulary
15:54:31 <benadida> Guus: willing to follow Vit and Elisa's lead. Come up with a proposal of what requires wg attention at f2f, and reading list.
15:54:47 <benadida> ... need not be complete, just sufficiently new for discussion.
15:55:25 <benadida> ACTION: prepare WG agenda for VM by 11 September.
15:55:33 <benadida> s/prepare/Vit to prepare/
15:56:28 <benadida> ACTION: elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:56:30 <benadida> --continues
15:57:04 <Zakim> Antoine, you wanted to ask about call for comments for SKOS UCR
15:57:38 <benadida> Antoine: question about SKOS UCR. Over past week, call for comments got stuck somewhere.
15:57:51 <benadida> ... may not be most important mailing lists, but number of comments is small.
15:58:08 <benadida> ... wondering if we may plan another call for comments
15:58:26 <benadida> Guus: hopefully, at f2f, decide a number of issues on SKOS. Plan new WD release.
15:58:35 <benadida> ... will then trigger request for comments.
15:59:09 <benadida> ... if editors feel need to update the doc, then request for comments is appropriate.
15:59:26 <benadida> ... if no need, then wait likely until 6 weeks after f2f for new draft
16:00:02 <benadida> Antoine: just wondering, given w3c rules on feedback, if not getting feedback is a problem.
16:00:05 <benadida> Guus: let's see next round.
16:00:37 <benadida> ADJOURNED
16:00:42 <Zakim> -Justin
16:00:45 <Zakim> -Sean
16:00:46 <Zakim> -Vit
16:00:47 <Zakim> -Guus
16:00:48 <Zakim> -Antoine
16:00:49 <Zakim> -luis_polo
16:00:51 <RalphS> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-minutes.html RalphS
16:00:52 <Zakim> -Clay
16:00:54 <Zakim> -Ed
16:00:57 <Antoine> Antoine has left #swd
16:01:02 <ed> ed has left #swd
16:03:01 <dlrubin> dlrubin has left #swd
16:04:02 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:04:07 <Zakim> -benadida
16:04:13 <benadida> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-minutes.html benadida
16:04:17 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:04:20 <Zakim> Attendees were benadida, +1.317.031.aaaa, Ralph, berrueta, Vit, Sean, Guus, Clay, Antoine, Ed, Justin, luis_polo
16:04:25 <benadida> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-minutes.html benadida
16:04:45 <RalphS> zakim, bye
16:04:45 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swd
16:04:58 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-actions.rdf :
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to bring up the HTML WG review of RDFa syntax with Steven [1]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-21-07
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ralph to raise RDFa on f2f agenda question in RDFa telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action07] [2]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-22-49
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about the issue of containment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01]  [3]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-39-57
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]. [4]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-40-06
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05]  [5]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-40-13
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05]  [6]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-40-21
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to update the f2f agenda [7]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-45-12
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Diego to prepare a f2f agenda topic for recipes  [8]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-48-35
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09] [9]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-49-27
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: prepare WG agenda for VM by 11 September. [10]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-55-25
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06] [11]
16:04:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-56-28