IRC log of swd on 2007-08-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:03:03 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:03:03 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc
15:03:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swd
15:03:15 [RalphS]
zakim, this is swd
15:03:16 [Zakim]
ok, RalphS; that matches SW_SWD()11:00AM
15:03:43 [Zakim]
+[LC.aa]
15:03:50 [Zakim]
+Ralph
15:03:56 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:04:05 [berrueta]
zakim, ??P5 is me
15:04:05 [Zakim]
+berrueta; got it
15:04:16 [RalphS]
Meeting: SemWeb Deployment WG
15:04:22 [seanb]
seanb has joined #swd
15:04:51 [RalphS]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0039.html
15:05:00 [Zakim]
+??P51
15:05:18 [Zakim]
+??P52
15:05:19 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html previous 2007-08-21
15:05:24 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p51 is Vit
15:05:24 [Zakim]
+Vit; got it
15:05:36 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p52 is Sean
15:05:36 [Zakim]
+Sean; got it
15:05:40 [RalphS]
zakim, who's on the call?
15:05:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see benadida, [LC], [LC.a], +1.317.031.aaaa, [LC.aa], Ralph, berrueta, Vit, Sean
15:06:18 [Zakim]
+Guus
15:06:25 [RalphS]
zakim, who's talking?
15:06:38 [Zakim]
RalphS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [LC.aa] (79%)
15:06:46 [RalphS]
zakim, lc.aa is Clay
15:06:46 [Zakim]
+Clay; got it
15:06:59 [RalphS]
Chair: Guus
15:07:04 [RalphS]
Scribenick: benadida
15:07:08 [RalphS]
Scribe: Ben
15:07:49 [Guus]
zakim, who is here?
15:07:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see benadida, [LC], [LC.a], +1.317.031.aaaa, Clay, Ralph, berrueta, Vit, Sean, Guus
15:07:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see seanb, Zakim, RRSAgent, Clay, RalphS, berrueta, Antoine, vit, ed, Guus, benadida
15:08:13 [RalphS]
zakim, aaaa is Antoine
15:08:13 [Zakim]
+Antoine; got it
15:08:42 [RalphS]
zakim, lc.a is Ed
15:08:42 [Zakim]
+Ed; got it
15:08:46 [RalphS]
zakim, lc is Justin
15:08:46 [Zakim]
+Justin; got it
15:09:24 [benadida]
Topic: Admin
15:09:32 [benadida]
Guus: propose to accept minutes from last week
15:09:38 [benadida]
no objections, ACCEPTED
15:09:44 [RalphS]
Regrets: Tom, Elisa, Bernard
15:10:00 [benadida]
... next telecons Sep 4 and 11
15:10:09 [RalphS]
Regrets+ Alistair
15:10:17 [benadida]
... f2f meeting agenda: http://www.few.vu.nl/~aisaac/swd/
15:10:25 [benadida]
s/agenda/logistics/
15:10:26 [RalphS]
Regrets+ Simone
15:10:35 [benadida]
... f2f meeting agenda: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/AmsterdamAgenda
15:10:37 [RalphS]
Regrets+ Jon
15:10:43 [benadida]
... registration: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39408/swd-ftf-adam-registration/
15:10:55 [benadida]
... questions about f2f? seeing none, actions.
15:11:20 [benadida]
Topic: RDFa
15:11:32 [RalphS]
scribenick: ralphs
15:12:05 [RalphS]
Ben: the task force has been extremely busy resolving lots of issues over the past few weeks
15:12:17 [RalphS]
... I've sent a few status updates on these
15:12:38 [RalphS]
... we have a number of implementations, including one by Ivan Herman
15:12:55 [RalphS]
... Ivan reported that he found it fairly easy to implement
15:13:09 [RalphS]
... however the documents have not kept up with the issue resolution
15:13:28 [RalphS]
... the implementations are now being updated to sync with the issue resolution
15:13:34 [RalphS]
... and we're pushing forward on the documents
15:13:43 [RalphS]
... hope to have new editors' drafts by the f2f
15:13:50 [RalphS]
Guus: we owe revised drafts to the public
15:14:17 [RalphS]
Ben: the good news is that we're getting increased interest from other communities and we're not really doing much outreach
15:14:40 [RalphS]
... e.g. the hAudio community is providing useful feedback and implementations of RDFa sample data
15:14:52 [RalphS]
... definitely we need to get the specifications up to date
15:15:12 [RalphS]
Guus: I suppose you're not yet in Last Call state?
15:15:24 [RalphS]
Ben: no, we're not. I don't have a precise schedule yet
15:15:38 [RalphS]
... we're working on a revamped Primer and pushing forward on the Syntax spec
15:15:45 [RalphS]
... the Syntax spec is the one Rec-track document
15:15:55 [RalphS]
... hope to have a very solid editors' draft by the 3rd week of September
15:16:18 [RalphS]
Guus: it makes sense to have RDFa on the f2f agenda if we have an editors' draft to review 2 weeks before
15:16:42 [RalphS]
... it doesn't have to be the Last Call version
15:16:58 [RalphS]
Ben: we really have resolved a lot of the issues so it's just a matter of getting it written down
15:17:32 [RalphS]
Guus: do both WGs need to approve the publication?
15:17:55 [RalphS]
Ralph: perhaps, but I certainly think SWD should review and consent to publish
15:18:00 [RalphS]
Guus: yes, SWD should approve
15:18:18 [RalphS]
Ben: the Syntax document will be the core document
15:18:53 [RalphS]
Guus: we need reviewers from the WG who have not been part of the task force
15:19:13 [RalphS]
Diego: I am willing to review the spec
15:19:20 [RalphS]
Justin: I also am willing to review the spec
15:19:36 [dlrubin]
dlrubin has joined #swd
15:20:10 [RalphS]
Ben: I will send a note when the editors' draft is ready for review
15:20:15 [RalphS]
... will likely be in 3 weeks
15:21:07 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to bring up the HTML WG review of RDFa syntax with Steven
15:22:03 [RalphS]
Guus: we should formally decide at the face-to-face whether the RDFa Syntax document is Rec-track
15:22:08 [RalphS]
Ben: I thought we'd decided this
15:22:26 [RalphS]
Guus: we should proceed as if it is Rec-track but the WG hasn't formally decided yet
15:22:39 [RalphS]
... hearing the implementation reports is, however, very encouraging
15:22:49 [RalphS]
ACTION: ralph to raise RDFa on f2f agenda question in RDFa telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action07]
15:22:52 [RalphS]
-- done
15:23:03 [RalphS]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0034.html Ralph's report
15:23:27 [RalphS]
Ben: Steven Pemberton and Mark Birbeck are likely to attend the f2f
15:23:41 [RalphS]
... I will arrange to call in
15:24:27 [RalphS]
... I expect at most 4 hours for RDFa
15:24:39 [RalphS]
... 2 hours to discuss the spec, more if people want to see demos and discuss more
15:24:53 [RalphS]
Guus: tentatively I suggest we schedule the afternoon of the second day
15:25:09 [RalphS]
... and potentially reserve time to discuss issues in smaller groups
15:25:47 [RalphS]
... I imagine that Tuesday morning may have breakouts to discuss SKOS issues from Monday, so it may be feasible to have a small RDFa breakout in parallel
15:26:16 [RalphS]
... I'd also like a report on test cases for RDFa
15:26:32 [RalphS]
Ben: yes, Michael Hausenblas has been working on test cases
15:26:40 [RalphS]
... we've approved 35 tests already
15:26:56 [RalphS]
... we expect to add more tests
15:27:20 [RalphS]
... the test cases give the XHTML+RDFa input, a SPARQL query, and the expected results
15:28:18 [benadida]
scribenick: benadida
15:28:25 [benadida]
Topic: SKOS
15:28:58 [benadida]
Guus: "drawing the pictures" --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0016.html
15:29:42 [Antoine]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/36
15:30:08 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/35 issue 35; owned by Sean
15:30:15 [Zakim]
-berrueta
15:30:59 [Zakim]
+luis_polo
15:31:09 [berrueta]
Zakim: luis_polo is me
15:31:24 [benadida]
... agreement last week was for Elisa to report a preliminary report for f2f, but no resolution
15:31:33 [RalphS]
[[tomb: ideally progress on drawing pictures before meeting, but ideally done f2f. propose we put that first in the agenda, item on drawing the picture.]] -- http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html
15:32:05 [benadida]
... leave this for later
15:32:26 [benadida]
Guus: ISSUE 35: ConceptSchemeContainment
15:32:33 [benadida]
--> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/36
15:32:46 [RalphS]
s/36/35
15:32:51 [benadida]
... reading up on SPARQL named graphs
15:33:03 [benadida]
... which parts of the graph have a particular authority, trust issues.
15:33:37 [benadida]
... you can make statements about graphs at a particular location
15:33:58 [benadida]
... can make statements about authority of graph
15:34:28 [benadida]
... most vocabularies will be spread over multiple RDF documents.
15:34:42 [benadida]
... need to declare that a vocab is multiple graphs, or use OWL import
15:34:55 [benadida]
Sean: haven't looked at this named graph piece
15:35:19 [benadida]
... are OWL import and vocab composed of multiple graphs same issue?
15:35:52 [benadida]
Guus: in SPARQL, you can have a named graph (by a URI)
15:36:06 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please make record public
15:36:09 [benadida]
... if you want one name / one graph, then it seems necessary to use OWL import
15:37:19 [benadida]
Antoine: something specific to deal with inScheme?
15:37:48 [benadida]
Guus: we can provide a guideline for using named graph, a dual solution.
15:37:53 [RalphS]
s/35: Concept/36: Concept/
15:38:12 [benadida]
... keep conceptscheme, inscheme, skosconcept. If you want to define which relationships, use named graphs
15:38:13 [RalphS]
(Ed correctly notes that we're discussing issue 36 here; agenda had a typo)
15:38:23 [benadida]
... not ideal, but it is a solution
15:38:53 [benadida]
... hope we can resolve this issue without changing current spec
15:39:57 [benadida]
ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about the issue of containment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:40:00 [benadida]
--continues
15:40:06 [benadida]
ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04].
15:40:08 [benadida]
--continues
15:40:13 [benadida]
ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:40:15 [benadida]
--continues
15:40:21 [benadida]
ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:40:23 [benadida]
--continues
15:40:32 [Antoine]
q+ to ask about call for comments for SKOS UCR
15:41:00 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/AmsterdamAgenda [draft] F2F Agenda
15:41:56 [benadida]
Antoine: on conceptsemantics, would like to browse mail on mailing list. Much discussion on mixing SKOS with OWL.
15:42:07 [benadida]
... would like to summarize at f2f, with possible solutions.
15:42:10 [benadida]
... no progress at moment.
15:43:16 [benadida]
(scribe missed some of this discussion.)
15:43:29 [benadida]
Guus: can you write this as a "guideline on how to handle this."
15:43:36 [benadida]
... reuse it for our spec
15:44:41 [benadida]
Sean: ISSUE-44, sematnics of broader / narrower
15:44:52 [benadida]
s/sematnics/semantics/
15:45:12 [benadida]
ACTION: Guus to update the f2f agenda
15:45:39 [benadida]
Topic: Recipes
15:46:06 [benadida]
Guus: will recipes need f2f time?
15:46:08 [benadida]
Diego: yes
15:46:22 [benadida]
Guus: need updated editors' draft
15:46:34 [benadida]
Diego: not sure if update can be done in time for f2f.
15:47:07 [benadida]
Guus: discuss either bottleneck issues or updated editors' draft
15:47:21 [benadida]
Diego: one particularly tricky issue, no need to discuss editing.
15:48:35 [benadida]
ACTION: Diego to prepare a f2f agenda topic for recipes
15:49:27 [benadida]
ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]
15:49:30 [benadida]
--continues
15:49:44 [benadida]
Topic: Vocabulary Management
15:50:07 [vit]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0037.html
15:50:22 [benadida]
Vit: proposed topic for discussion
15:51:43 [benadida]
(scribe missed a bit of Vit's explanation)
15:52:08 [benadida]
Guus: reference implementation is important
15:52:24 [benadida]
Vit: still problems with semantic diff and versioning implementation
15:53:26 [benadida]
Guus: let's have an agenda 1-2 weeks before f2f, then we can make time for it.
15:53:30 [benadida]
... by 23 september
15:53:52 [benadida]
Ralph: also Elisa's draft, introduced last week. Worth spending some f2f time reviewing.
15:54:05 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/VocabMgtDraft Elisa's draft of Basic Principles for Managing an RDF Vocabulary
15:54:31 [benadida]
Guus: willing to follow Vit and Elisa's lead. Come up with a proposal of what requires wg attention at f2f, and reading list.
15:54:47 [benadida]
... need not be complete, just sufficiently new for discussion.
15:55:25 [benadida]
ACTION: prepare WG agenda for VM by 11 September.
15:55:33 [benadida]
s/prepare/Vit to prepare/
15:56:28 [benadida]
ACTION: elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:56:30 [benadida]
--continues
15:57:04 [Zakim]
Antoine, you wanted to ask about call for comments for SKOS UCR
15:57:38 [benadida]
Antoine: question about SKOS UCR. Over past week, call for comments got stuck somewhere.
15:57:51 [benadida]
... may not be most important mailing lists, but number of comments is small.
15:58:08 [benadida]
... wondering if we may plan another call for comments
15:58:26 [benadida]
Guus: hopefully, at f2f, decide a number of issues on SKOS. Plan new WD release.
15:58:35 [benadida]
... will then trigger request for comments.
15:59:09 [benadida]
... if editors feel need to update the doc, then request for comments is appropriate.
15:59:26 [benadida]
... if no need, then wait likely until 6 weeks after f2f for new draft
16:00:02 [benadida]
Antoine: just wondering, given w3c rules on feedback, if not getting feedback is a problem.
16:00:05 [benadida]
Guus: let's see next round.
16:00:37 [benadida]
ADJOURNED
16:00:42 [Zakim]
-Justin
16:00:45 [Zakim]
-Sean
16:00:46 [Zakim]
-Vit
16:00:47 [Zakim]
-Guus
16:00:48 [Zakim]
-Antoine
16:00:49 [Zakim]
-luis_polo
16:00:51 [RalphS]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-minutes.html RalphS
16:00:52 [Zakim]
-Clay
16:00:54 [Zakim]
-Ed
16:00:57 [Antoine]
Antoine has left #swd
16:01:02 [ed]
ed has left #swd
16:03:01 [dlrubin]
dlrubin has left #swd
16:04:02 [Zakim]
-Ralph
16:04:07 [Zakim]
-benadida
16:04:13 [benadida]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-minutes.html benadida
16:04:17 [Zakim]
SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
16:04:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were benadida, +1.317.031.aaaa, Ralph, berrueta, Vit, Sean, Guus, Clay, Antoine, Ed, Justin, luis_polo
16:04:25 [benadida]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-minutes.html benadida
16:04:45 [RalphS]
zakim, bye
16:04:45 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swd
16:04:58 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-actions.rdf :
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to bring up the HTML WG review of RDFa syntax with Steven [1]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-21-07
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ralph to raise RDFa on f2f agenda question in RDFa telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action07] [2]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-22-49
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about the issue of containment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] [3]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-39-57
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]. [4]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-40-06
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05] [5]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-40-13
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] [6]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-40-21
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to update the f2f agenda [7]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-45-12
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Diego to prepare a f2f agenda topic for recipes [8]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-48-35
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09] [9]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-49-27
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: prepare WG agenda for VM by 11 September. [10]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-55-25
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html#action06] [11]
16:04:58 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/28-swd-irc#T15-56-28