14:58:13 RRSAgent has joined #swd 14:58:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc 14:58:18 Zakim has joined #swd 14:58:22 zakim, this will be swd 14:58:22 ok, RalphS, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started 14:58:29 zakim, who's on the call? 14:58:29 On the phone I see ??P2 14:58:39 Meeting: SemWeb Deployment WG 14:58:43 RalphS, was reading your mail... Thanks for starting to set up... 14:59:02 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Aug/0026.html 14:59:15 dlrubin has joined #swd 14:59:27 -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/07-swd-minutes.html previous 2007-08-07 14:59:38 monarcho has joined #swd 14:59:58 Chair: Tom 15:00:14 +Ralph 15:00:18 rrsagent, please make record public 15:00:26 +??P7 15:00:29 Guus has joined #swd 15:00:29 zakim, ??p2 is Tom 15:00:29 +Tom; got it 15:00:35 Antoine has joined #swd 15:00:49 zakim, ??p7 is Daniel 15:00:50 +Daniel; got it 15:00:58 zakim, nick dlrubin is Daniel 15:00:58 ok, RalphS, I now associate dlrubin with Daniel 15:01:05 +[LC] 15:01:20 aliman has joined #swd 15:01:25 +Antoine 15:01:28 berrueta has joined #swd 15:01:50 +Guus 15:02:00 edsu has joined #swd 15:02:01 zakim, lc is Clay 15:02:02 +Clay; got it 15:02:06 +[LC] 15:02:15 +??P19 15:02:25 +[LC.a] 15:02:27 +abel 15:02:37 zakim, who is here? 15:02:37 On the phone I see Tom, Ralph, Daniel, Clay, Antoine, Guus, [LC], ??P19, [LC.a], abel 15:02:37 Zakim, abel is me 15:02:40 On IRC I see edsu, berrueta, aliman, Antoine, Guus, Clay, dlrubin, Zakim, RRSAgent, vit, TomB, RalphS 15:02:42 +berrueta; got it 15:02:47 zakim, LC is edsu 15:02:48 +edsu; got it 15:03:22 zakim, lc.a is probably Justin 15:03:23 +Justin?; got it 15:03:30 -Antoine 15:03:55 +??P12 15:03:57 zakim, ??P19 is probably me 15:03:57 +aliman?; got it 15:04:05 zakim, ??p12 is Vit 15:04:05 +Vit; got it 15:04:09 +Antoine 15:04:36 zakim, who is here? 15:04:36 On the phone I see Tom, Ralph, Daniel, Clay, Guus, edsu, aliman?, Justin?, berrueta, Vit, Antoine 15:04:38 On IRC I see edsu, berrueta, aliman, Antoine, Guus, Clay, dlrubin, Zakim, RRSAgent, vit, TomB, RalphS 15:05:02 Regrets: Jon, Simone, Bernard, 15:06:12 seanb has joined #swd 15:06:30 zakim, pick a scribe 15:06:30 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose aliman? 15:06:56 Elisa has joined #swd 15:07:10 +??P28 15:07:35 zakim, ??p28 is Sean 15:07:35 +Sean; got it 15:08:02 PROPOSED to accept minutes of 7 August telecon: 15:08:04 http://www.w3.org/2007/08/07-swd-minutes.html 15:08:05 RESOLVED 15:08:38 scribenick: aliman 15:09:11 -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39408/swd-ftf-adam-registration/ f2f registration questionnaire 15:09:13 tomb: f2f meeting resolved, looks like guus, tom, diego, ed, antoine, ... looks like pretty full meeting 15:09:29 antoine has set up meeting web page, registration form in agenda 15:09:46 (only 4 people registered thus far) 15:10:13 guus: there is alist of hotels there. our university just outside south of city centre. hotels all between uni and city centre, nice locations 15:10:24 -> http://www.few.vu.nl/~aisaac/swd/ Amsterdam f2f logistics 15:10:25 ... also informed W3C office in netherlands, maybe organise something 15:11:07 ... logistics page in VU house style, doesn't conform to accessibility guidelines, so remove style 15:11:41 ACTION: Antoine & Guus will take on setting up logistics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/07-swd-minutes.html#action01] 15:11:42 --done 15:12:19 guus: tomb & I to do agenda and set up list of documents. We should look at main issues on table, and distribute preparation work. Set some targets, e.g. issues to resolbe at f2f. 15:12:26 TOPIC: SKOS 15:12:37 tomb: note new issue about drawing pictures ... 15:12:39 [echo is back] 15:13:14 ... good topic to quickly get feedback on, need high level diagram on what SKOS is about ... something useful to have, good to discuss at f2f. Any volunteers to start drawing a picture? 15:13:21 q+ to mention pictures drawn 15:13:42 q+ to ask a question about the ftf that I forgot 15:13:48 tomb: put on agenda for amsterdam, not at top of agenda, but way to make sure we're all on same page wrt bigger picture 15:13:55 ack aliman 15:13:55 aliman, you wanted to mention pictures drawn 15:14:11 Alistair: I just finished writing a tutorial on vocabularies for next week's Dublin Core conference 15:14:14 http://isegserv.itd.rl.ac.uk/public/ajm65/dc2007/tutorial.pdf -> tutorial on vocabularies for DC 2007 15:14:30 cgi-irc has joined #swd 15:14:58 Alistair: without thinking specifically about SKOS, I did draw some pictures of what 'vocabularies' are; these might be useful input 15:15:23 guus: question about F2F - if people are interested, can organise social get together on sunday, that is an option. I'll include in logistics page. 15:15:56 q+ to mention UML and BS 15:15:59 -Tom 15:16:15 yes, Internet problems too... 15:17:01 guus: issue is drawing the pictures ... leave until tomb's back 15:17:09 +??P2 15:17:14 ... aim to have first list of isssues to resolve at f2f 15:17:23 ... issue 26 relationships between labels 15:18:04 ... issue 35 on concept scheme containment 15:18:13 ... these are two currently on our list. 15:18:34 ... maybe best for one of us (me) to go through issues and propose a list. 15:21:29 tomb: support alistairs' "central issues" suggestion about issues to tackle first at f2f 15:21:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0164.html -> Alistair's SKOS central issues email 15:22:08 [sorry, I'm back] 15:22:19 antoine: alistair raised two issues about semantics of labels, 32 is also involved, wanted to raise this as possibility 15:23:12 tomb: just talking about alistair's proposal back in june to focus on 3 central issues - skos:Concept, labeling properties, semantic relation properties. These three central ideas good way to approach several other issues. Alistair proposed we approach all these issues by looking at draft for SKOS semantics. 15:23:39 ... so we could come up with a reading list, around discussion on these three cetnral ideas, look at them in light of draft semantics doc. 15:23:56 guus: nice if, for each issue, have separate issue owner who prepares discussion. 15:24:16 tomb: if first issue is 54 (concept semantics) ... any volunteers to shepherd discussion? 15:25:22 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/54 issue 54 15:25:41 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues all issues 15:26:22 ... notion of a skos:Concept, and any other related issues. 15:26:44 antoine: concept semantics, also related to problem of mixing with owl classes, so perhaps can volunteer? 15:27:07 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/44 issue 44; BroaderNarrowerSemantics 15:27:16 ... 44 is slightly different - broader/narrower semantics. heard someone discussing? 15:27:24 aliman: some discussion of transitivity? 15:27:47 antoine: 54 different to 44, so I volunteer for 54 but not 44. 15:28:10 +Elisa_Kendall 15:28:19 tomb: issue 54 -> topic "SKOS Concept" a.k.a. "Concept Semantics" 15:29:04 ... owner Antoine 15:29:05 ... issue 31 -> topic "Labeling Properties", owner Alistair 15:30:15 ... leaves issue 44 -> topic "Broader Narrower Semantics" owner Sean 15:30:40 ... on topic of drawing pictures, alistair has proposed some diagrams, anyone else to take ownership? 15:30:56 sean: I raised question of drawing pictures, but don't want to take on too much ... 15:31:09 I volunteer for ISSUE 26 LavelRelations 15:31:38 tomb: related to issue of semantic relation properties, figuring out where boundaries lie. Is there natural progression, draw picture before, during and after those three? 15:32:16 sean: draw picture before - rough idea of shared interpretation, so having as setting the scene would be useful. If do it after, discover we're talking about different things, could be awkward. 15:32:53 tomb: ideally progress on drawing pictures before meeting, but ideally done f2f. propose we put that first in the agenda, item on drawing the picture. 15:33:13 ... see in IRC, Guus volunteers for issue 26 label relations 15:33:39 ... so we have four topics, extract to draft agenda. 15:35:23 antoine: four topics, concept scheme containment dropped from discussion on purpose? 15:35:24 tomb: not dropped on purpose. fit into existing topics? 15:35:26 antoine: I guess no. 15:35:27 sean: containment partiall addressed by drawing the picture notion. e.g. do you consider relationships to be part of concept scheme, or part of terms ... questions teased out when thinking of the model. 15:35:51 tomb: if we address drawing the picture and issue 36 as first part of meeting at same time, still need topic leader 15:36:53 ... alistair, antoine, sean, guus have volunteered. no volunteers. put in placeholder, grouping issue 36 together with drawing the picture, for now. hope to come up with volunteer. 15:37:06 -TomB 15:37:19 elisa: happy to help with drawing pictures, maybe need some help ... 15:37:59 ... need some guidance to get it right. don't have budget to come to amsterdam, but can be on the phone. 15:38:16 TomB has joined #swd 15:39:19 sean: have looked today at references jon and antoine had pointed to on zthes and bs8273, found those useful, could already see differences between them, useful already. 15:39:49 antoine: can i ask about bs 8723, seemed relevant, actually some UML diagrams already available? 15:39:50 +Tom_Baker 15:40:25 rrsagent, pointer? 15:40:25 See http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T15-40-25 15:41:28 elisa: i did attend with jon and clay the open forum meeting in NY in June, i know some people from work at OMG, so if we need contact folks on ISO side, know people. there is work on FBER? at OMG, representation of semantics for business rules, also have some pictures, done work with ISO 1087 terminology for vocabulary work, general vocabulary terms, access to that and folks on ISO... 15:41:30 ...committee who developed it. Clay and ed know those people, Jon knows some people. 15:42:00 ... some of them have worked with NCI, so Daniel probably knows. Lots of people could help, need focus. Have access to this, hopefully helpful. 15:42:44 tomb: try to go through discussion of SKOS today? elisa asked time for VM. 15:43:07 ... suggest we go through actions .. 15:43:15 ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about the issue of containment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] 15:43:36 --continues 15:43:51 ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]. 15:44:05 --continues 15:44:23 ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05] 15:44:25 --continues 15:44:33 ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] 15:44:34 --continues 15:45:12 TOPIC: Vocabulary Management 15:45:35 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/VocabMgtDraft Vocabulary Management wiki draft [ast edited 2007-08-21 05:40:02 by ElisaKendal] 15:45:44 s/[ast/[last/ 15:46:09 elisa: i've been looking at wiki, talking with some people, preparation for meeting on ontologies for US intelligence community, interest in VM, re-use of ontologies in public domain. Fits nicely with what we want to do here, requirements are smaller. 15:47:10 ... have revised some things from wiki, front matter. section using URIs for naming ... things you would anticipate, pointing to recipes document (schemes people use for developing URI schemes), or relative to setting up policies for managing URIs, stating policies etc. 15:47:23 ... in that first para, have taken as far as I can without further input from others 15:47:45 ... ask for few key people to read that section, number 1 under principles of good practice, give some examples 15:48:46 ... have captured link to recipes, choosing namespaces. don't have examples around ownership of URI spaces, domain registration; good practices for persisting URIs - daniel and/or tom - on policies of delegating use of URIs in collection environment, where different people developing different vocabs, link to bioportal. 15:49:07 ... feedback on first section, tom or daniel? to write something and finish first para 15:49:18 q+ to note existence of HCLSIG URI document 15:49:54 tomb: write to the list, summarising input needed. then get others. i'll be at DC 2007 next week, so if have description of where you want to take next ... 15:50:32 q+ to mention SWEO review of Leo Sauermann https://gnowsis.opendfki.de/repos/gnowsis/papers/2006_11_concepturi/html/index.html 15:50:57 elisa: will send that out, may ask for input on following sections as well. think second & third topics, documentation - DC is good example; maintenance policies, DC and FOAF or broader collection e.g. bioportal, both are relevant. try to send broader email asking for input. 15:51:03 ... shouldn't take a lot of time. 15:51:13 ACTION: elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft 15:51:42 elisa: feel free to edit, contribute especially in sections i highlight. 15:52:31 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-semweb-lifesci/2007Aug/0001.html Paper: URI Identity Management for Semantic Web Data Integration and Linkage 15:52:36 tomb: i put link into IRC, document called cool URIs... doc has been reviewed by TAG, is now in SWEO, they are looking at possibliity of publishing as a W3C note 15:53:00 ... wanted to suggest we review that doc as well, in context of f2f meeting. 15:53:22 ... put VM on agenda? 15:53:46 elisa: yes, prefer end of the day. lots of SKOS f2f work which needs to be done, so ... 15:54:14 -> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLSIG_BioRDF_Subgroup/Tasks/URI_Best_Practices HCLSIG BioRDF subgroup task on URI Best Practices 15:54:19 guus: end of first day, could schedule last session on monday 8, 4-5:30 still early for you? 15:54:29 tomb: there's also by the same authors http://sites.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/suhl/bizer/pub/drafts/LinkedDataTutorial/ 15:55:22 tomb: if you could take SWEO doc under review, see how it overlaps or relates to what we want to do 15:55:50 ... there have been comment on that doc from TAG, already incorporated do at advanced stage. question of scope w.r.t. doc we want to write. 15:56:40 ralph: also, HCLSIG has a task working on URI best practices in healthcare area, would expect this WG would be formally asked for input on that. 15:56:52 ... clearly active area, lots of things been written. 15:56:58 daniel: should reach out to them? 15:57:13 ... i joined some of there telcons, so happy to approach. 15:57:32 ralph: not sure if editor's draft wiki oage, if they've yet asked for input? 15:57:38 s/oage/page/ 15:57:48 ralph: good to identify someone as liaison 15:57:56 daniel: happy to liase 15:58:14 ralph: LSIG will publish IG note, expect us to be asked for review before publish 15:58:40 tomb: good to have at end of day (8 oct) discussion of VM issues, looking at various drafts being produced 15:59:21 -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39408/swd-ftf-adam-registration/ F2F registration (October 8-9) 15:59:36 ... straightforward task of leading a discussion, any volunteer? 2 or 3 papers on this, including our own VM draft, elisa there remotely but probably hard to lead remotely, so good to have someone in WG who is willing to lead discussion locally & help elisa participate remotely. 15:59:42 ralph: I can do that. 16:00:02 TOPIC: Recipes 16:00:07 tomb: put this on agenda? 16:00:33 .... for f2f. 16:00:50 ... would need critical mass of people willing to prepare that. leave a question mark. 16:00:54 TOPIC: RDFa 16:01:31 ralph: I missed last weeks rdfa call, so don't know if TF has considered question of f2f agenda. 16:01:56 ... given that several TF members are in europe, steve p in amsterdam ... 16:02:00 -> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html 16 Aug RDFa TF telecon 16:02:19 ACTION: ralph to raise agenda question in RDFa telcon 16:02:27 tomb: AOB? adjourned. 16:02:28 s/agenda/RDFa on f2f agenda/ 16:02:29 -edsu 16:02:30 -Daniel 16:02:30 -Clay 16:02:33 -Elisa_Kendall 16:02:34 -Sean 16:02:35 dlrubin has left #swd 16:02:36 -Guus 16:02:36 -Justin? 16:02:37 -Vit 16:02:38 -Antoine 16:02:39 -aliman? 16:02:40 zakim, list participants 16:02:40 -berrueta 16:02:42 As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, Tom, Daniel, Antoine, Guus, Clay, berrueta, edsu, Justin?, aliman?, Vit, Sean, TomB, Elisa_Kendall, Tom_Baker 16:04:18 edsu has left #swd 16:04:55 Antoine has left #swd 16:08:56 TomB_ has joined #swd 16:19:20 http://www.w3.org/2007/03/HTML-WG-charter 16:22:15 -Ralph 16:22:17 -Tom_Baker 16:54:33 zakim, who was on the call? 16:54:33 I don't understand your question, TomB. 16:54:47 zakim, please list attendees 16:54:47 As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, Tom, Daniel, Antoine, Guus, Clay, berrueta, edsu, Justin?, aliman?, Vit, Sean, TomB, Elisa_Kendall, Tom_Baker 16:54:57 rrsagent, please draft minutes 16:54:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-minutes.html TomB 17:19:20 SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended 17:19:21 Attendees were Ralph, Tom, Daniel, Antoine, Guus, Clay, berrueta, edsu, Justin?, aliman?, Vit, Sean, TomB, Elisa_Kendall, Tom_Baker 18:06:57 zakim, bye 18:06:57 Zakim has left #swd 18:07:03 rrsagent, bye 18:07:03 I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-actions.rdf : 18:07:03 ACTION: Antoine & Guus will take on setting up logistics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/07-swd-minutes.html#action01] [1] 18:07:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T15-11-41 18:07:03 ACTION: Guus to email a proposal to the list about the issue of containment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] [2] 18:07:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T15-43-15 18:07:03 ACTION: Guus to move ISSUE-26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]. [3] 18:07:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T15-43-51 18:07:03 ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05] [4] 18:07:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T15-44-23 18:07:03 ACTION: Alistair to state the difference between the two flavours of the SimpleExtension proposal for issue 26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/17-swd-minutes.html#action05] [5] 18:07:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T15-44-33 18:07:03 ACTION: elisa to ask for feedback on VM draft [6] 18:07:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T15-51-13 18:07:03 ACTION: ralph to raise agenda question in RDFa telcon [7] 18:07:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/21-swd-irc#T16-02-19