IRC log of tagmem on 2007-08-13
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:57:17 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
- 15:57:18 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc
- 15:57:27 [Stuart]
- zakim, this will be tag
- 15:57:27 [Zakim]
- ok, Stuart; I see TAG_Weekly()12:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
- 15:57:48 [Zakim]
- TAG_Weekly()12:00PM has now started
- 15:57:55 [Zakim]
- +Raman
- 15:59:20 [ht]
- Meeting: TAG
- 15:59:27 [ht]
- Chair: Norm Walsh
- 15:59:30 [raman]
- raman has left #tagmem
- 15:59:33 [ht]
- Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
- 15:59:38 [ht]
- ScribeNick: ht
- 16:00:02 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 16:00:37 [ht]
- zakim, please call ht-781
- 16:00:37 [Zakim]
- ok, ht; the call is being made
- 16:00:38 [Rhys]
- Rhys has joined #tagmem
- 16:00:39 [Zakim]
- +Ht
- 16:00:43 [raman]
- raman has joined #tagmem
- 16:01:28 [Noah]
- Noah has joined #tagmem
- 16:01:29 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 16:01:44 [ht]
- zakim, ? is Stuart
- 16:01:44 [Zakim]
- +Stuart; got it
- 16:01:52 [Zakim]
- +Rhys
- 16:02:00 [Zakim]
- +Norm
- 16:02:08 [Norm]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:02:08 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Raman, DanC, Ht, Stuart, Rhys, Norm
- 16:02:35 [Zakim]
- +Noah_Mendelsohn
- 16:02:52 [DanC]
- regrets: TimBL
- 16:03:11 [Norm]
- Regrets: TimBL
- 16:03:16 [ht]
- topic: agena
- 16:03:18 [Norm]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:03:18 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Raman, DanC, Ht, Stuart, Rhys, Norm, Noah_Mendelsohn
- 16:03:26 [ht]
- s/agena/Agenda/
- 16:06:14 [ht]
- Action: Stuart to put up straw poll to try to find a new slot for this meeting
- 16:06:14 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-8 - Put up straw poll to try to find a new slot for this meeting [on Stuart Williams - due 2007-08-20].
- 16:06:46 [ht]
- NW: Agenda recently updated -- accepted as posted http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/08/13-agenda.html
- 16:07:18 [ht]
- NW: RESOLVED that minutes of 16/7/07 are approved
- 16:07:28 [ht]
- Topic: Next meeting
- 16:07:34 [Norm]
- ack DanC
- 16:07:34 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to ask about "RESOLUTION: We will open a new issue named "HTTP Redirections""
- 16:07:35 [ht]
- RL withdraws his regrets
- 16:07:47 [ht]
- NM says he is at risk
- 16:08:02 [ht]
- We already have regrets from TBL
- 16:08:25 [ht]
- DC: SW, have you created the issue?
- 16:08:48 [ht]
- SW: Wasn't aware we'd chosen a name, will go ahead ASAP with "HTTP Redirections"
- 16:09:07 [ht]
- Action: SW to create new TAG issue called "HTTP Redirections" per minutes of 16/7/07
- 16:09:08 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-9 - Create new TAG issue called \"HTTP Redirections\" per minutes of 16/7/07 [on Stuart Williams - due 2007-08-20].
- 16:09:23 [Stuart]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2007Jul/0031.html
- 16:09:24 [ht]
- Topic: Technical Plenary planning
- 16:09:36 [Norm]
- -> http://www.w3.org/mid/C4B3FB61F7970A4391A5C10BAA1C3F0DC2F086@sdcexc04.emea.cpqcorp.net
- 16:09:51 [ht]
- NW: Any suggestions?
- 16:09:58 [Rhys]
- Rhys prefers Stuart's URI
- 16:10:04 [ht]
- SW: I sent the above as a starter
- 16:10:14 [ht]
- ... URI-based extensibility
- 16:10:22 [ht]
- ... Web 2.0
- 16:10:30 [Noah]
- q+ to ask how close the first proposed topic comes to HTML 5 extensibility
- 16:10:30 [ht]
- ... HTTP URIs rule
- 16:11:07 [Norm]
- ack DanC
- 16:11:07 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to relay http://www.molly.com/2007/08/11/dear-w3c-dear-wasp/
- 16:11:10 [DanC]
- q+ to offer to re-play his "nofollow is like marquee" story re "The Importance URI based Extensibility"
- 16:11:10 [ht]
- TVR: Challenge is how to raise these, or any topics, in a way that works for the TP
- 16:11:17 [ht]
- ack DanC
- 16:11:17 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to offer to re-play his "nofollow is like marquee" story re "The Importance URI based Extensibility"
- 16:13:17 [ht]
- DC: Molly Holzschlag has asked for observer status at the HTML WG meeting, which is fine with me, and has made some suggestions for a TP session (see link)
- 16:13:55 [ht]
- NW: Who is WaSP (Web Standards Project) -- relation with WHAT WG?
- 16:14:01 [ht]
- HST: They've been around for a long time
- 16:14:37 [Norm]
- q+ To point out that HTML/HTML5 extensibility looks like a good topic
- 16:14:55 [ht]
- DC: They have pushed for a more aggressive attempt to support standards than W3C has pursued, in that W3C has a policy of not making public criticisms of its members if at all possible
- 16:15:37 [Rhys]
- q+
- 16:15:44 [ht]
- DC: I also think we could talk about the relationship between rel='nofollow' and <marquee> -- if the latter is bad, why isn't the former?
- 16:16:32 [ht]
- NM: Wrt URI-based extensibility, is that where we talk about HTML 5 extensibility, or does that need a separate heading/slot/bullet?
- 16:16:36 [Norm]
- ack no
- 16:16:36 [Zakim]
- Norm, you wanted to point out that HTML/HTML5 extensibility looks like a good topic
- 16:16:39 [Norm]
- ack noah
- 16:16:39 [Zakim]
- Noah, you wanted to ask how close the first proposed topic comes to HTML 5 extensibility
- 16:16:43 [Norm]
- q+ To point out that HTML/HTML5 extensibility looks like a good topic
- 16:17:26 [ht]
- TVR: Even if it is covered, the title doesn't communicate that
- 16:18:05 [Norm]
- ack norm
- 16:18:05 [Zakim]
- Norm, you wanted to point out that HTML/HTML5 extensibility looks like a good topic
- 16:18:09 [ht]
- Various: The overall topic is a big one
- 16:18:19 [ht]
- NW: TP is a good place to talk about big topic
- 16:18:31 [ht]
- TVR: Start with the smaller (HTML5) topic, and then enlarge
- 16:19:22 [ht]
- SW: The topic emerged from our call discussion about follow-your-nose, we had trouble articulating exactly what we wanted, so it seemed a good topic
- 16:19:24 [Noah]
- Now that I think about it: the need for distributed extensibility is, as a requirement. Applying URI-based extensibility in particular is the Web-compatible way of achieving such extensibility.
- 16:19:46 [Noah]
- s/distributed extensibility/distributed HTML 5 extensibility/
- 16:20:04 [ht]
- NW: So, do we have consensus? Should we address HTML5 extensibiliyt
- 16:20:07 [Rhys]
- +1 to the broader topic
- 16:20:09 [Rhys]
- ack me
- 16:20:15 [ht]
- HST: I thought we had consensus on the broader topic
- 16:20:36 [ht]
- NW: I'm happy to go to the broad topic
- 16:21:20 [ht]
- NM: Once you agree on distributed extensibility as a requirement for HTML5, you still have to agree mechanism, i.e. URI-based or not
- 16:21:31 [ht]
- DC: How much time do we have?
- 16:21:47 [ht]
- ... I could imagine a whole conference on this topic
- 16:22:02 [ht]
- NM: I thought this was for the whole day
- 16:22:25 [Noah]
- Any interest in inviting Sam Ruby to discuss his views on HTML 5 extensibility?
- 16:22:34 [ht]
- NW: The message subject is ["possible topic for TAG contribution to TP"]
- 16:22:58 [ht]
- SW: Is this the subject that we have the most affinity for?
- 16:23:24 [ht]
- DC: 'We' isn't the point - I have a specific pointI want to get across
- 16:24:16 [ht]
- NM: Molly was particularly concerned about Adobe's AIR and application construction in general, which would I guess point also to Microsoft's Silverlight
- 16:24:28 [ht]
- ack DanC
- 16:24:28 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to note http://www.w3.org/2007/11/07-TechPlenAgenda.html
- 16:25:00 [ht]
- DC: The TP programme committee has a list of 20 topics to talk about, see link
- 16:26:00 [Noah]
- Speaking just for myself, I find some of the technical topics we're noodling on here to be more compelling than the rough list at 07-TechPlenAgenda.html
- 16:26:37 [Norm]
- Norm has joined #tagmem
- 16:26:39 [ht]
- NW: Are we ready for the chair of the TAG to go back to Steve with an overview of what we've discussed, and see where it might fit in?
- 16:26:50 [Norm]
- q?
- 16:26:57 [ht]
- Action: SW to discuss TAG slot at TP with Steve Bratt, informed by above discussion
- 16:26:57 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-10 - Discuss TAG slot at TP with Steve Bratt, informed by above discussion [on Stuart Williams - due 2007-08-20].
- 16:27:24 [ht]
- NW: Same question about the AC -- anything to say?
- 16:27:37 [ht]
- HST: It's half-a-day, I think we should duck
- 16:28:52 [ht]
- DC: We don't seem to be doing REC-track work -- if anybody cared I guess we'd hear about it. . .
- 16:29:29 [Noah]
- I agree with Norm, we haven't forgotten rec track work. What we have not done is produce 3 month heartbeats so identified.
- 16:29:40 [ht]
- HST: At Extreme last week, I got a lot of good response when I pointed people to the [Alternative Representations] finding -- we could just make it a REC
- 16:30:07 [ht]
- NW: I just don't think our recent work has been REC-like, we're still looking for that
- 16:30:11 [DanC]
- (looking it up... http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/alternatives-discovery.html is dated 1 November 2006 )
- 16:30:52 [ht]
- NM: I think a lot of our recent pubs can be seen as a heartbeat
- 16:31:15 [DanC]
- (our last WD was http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-namespaceState-20060329/ )
- 16:31:27 [ht]
- NM: Most recent approved finding was Metadata finding, at beginning of the year
- 16:32:47 [ht]
- DC: We have to do a written report which summarises what we've done
- 16:33:03 [ht]
- ... If anyone objects, we'll here about it
- 16:33:38 [ht]
- Action: SW to tell Steve Bratt that the TAG doesn't want a slot at the AC meeting
- 16:33:38 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-11 - Tell Steve Bratt that the TAG doesn't want a slot at the AC meeting [on Stuart Williams - due 2007-08-20].
- 16:34:10 [ht]
- Topic: TAG blog entry: Version identifiers
- 16:34:24 [ht]
- NW: Who has not read it : HST, DC, TVR
- 16:34:39 [ht]
- NM: It's not long, shall I walk through ito
- 16:34:45 [ht]
- s/ito/it?/
- 16:35:00 [ht]
- NW: Go ahead then
- 16:35:12 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/08/versionBlog.html
- 16:35:13 [ht]
- NM: We've gotten some pushback from DO and Mark Baker
- 16:35:14 [Norm]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2007/08/versionBlog.html
- 16:37:46 [DanC]
- (hmm... it's not clear that the quoted GPN is quoted, especially when the one that's not quoted looks the same)
- 16:38:15 [ht]
- [Scribe not trying to transcribe NM's walkthrough]
- 16:38:24 [DanC]
- [this bit about xml 1.1 is awfully relevant, and yet it's not in there? odd.]
- 16:39:09 [DanC]
- [perhaps the xml 1.1 versioning situation fits better in a separate item.]
- 16:40:26 [DanC]
- [the "ASCII doesn't have a version identifier" example that Noah often uses isn't in here. odd.]
- 16:41:39 [Norm]
- q+ to observe that "will change in incompatible ways" asks about the future
- 16:41:40 [ht]
- q+ to be confused
- 16:41:48 [Norm]
- ack ht
- 16:41:48 [Zakim]
- ht, you wanted to be confused
- 16:42:51 [raman]
- q+ to add that finding mixes "identifying version" with the specific technique of adding a "version attribute" --
- 16:43:39 [ht]
- HST: There's a shift between "provide for marking version" and "when to mark version" in your prose
- 16:43:48 [ht]
- ... That seems to me to take us off track
- 16:44:29 [ht]
- NM: I think those are closely related -- if you would never want to mark the version, then the language shouldn't provide the mechanism for you to do so.
- 16:45:26 [Stuart]
- q+ to note that many of the questions the article raises are associated versioning strategy associated with (all versions of) the language.
- 16:46:50 [ht]
- HST: My understanding of the existing BPN is that if you _don't_ give people a way to mark versions, they will make one up, which will not be interoperable, so even if you don't know for sure what it will be used for, you should leave a place for it
- 16:47:07 [ht]
- NM: If you can't spec. what the version indicator means, you shouldn't have it in your spec.
- 16:47:19 [DanC]
- [I hear Noah defending his position but not convincing HT. I think the article is interesting as is, and I'd like to see it go out signed "Noah, a TAG member" and let other TAG members respond with other articles or comments.]
- 16:47:27 [ht]
- ... You will just be storing up trouble for the future, c.f. XML's version attribute
- 16:49:04 [ht]
- HST: Brings us back to the metapoint as to what the status of TAG blog entries should be -- the settled will of the TAG as a group, or an opportunity for TAG members to discuss something using the blog medium?
- 16:49:11 [ht]
- NM: DO said something similar
- 16:49:41 [ht]
- SW: I think the value of a blog would be lost if it required consensus
- 16:49:46 [Norm]
- q?
- 16:50:00 [ht]
- TVR: I agree, we shouldn't turn TAG blog entries into mini-findings
- 16:50:40 [ht]
- NM: I think we should reserve the possibility that we do both, that is, we may sometimes want to publish something _with_ consensus
- 16:50:55 [DanC]
- (sure, a little telcon preview is a good thing, from time to time)
- 16:51:18 [Stuart]
- +1 to DanC
- 16:51:19 [ht]
- ... and that I _can_ ask for telcon review on how to make the best posting I can, before I post it
- 16:51:31 [Norm]
- But not that I have to ask for it
- 16:52:01 [ht]
- NW: So it you remove "for the T A G" from the bottom, you can publish as and when you choose
- 16:52:03 [Norm]
- ack Norm
- 16:52:03 [Zakim]
- Norm, you wanted to observe that "will change in incompatible ways" asks about the future
- 16:52:27 [Rhys]
- +1 to the proposal on blog entries
- 16:52:35 [Norm]
- q?
- 16:52:38 [Norm]
- ack raman
- 16:52:38 [Zakim]
- raman, you wanted to add that finding mixes "identifying version" with the specific technique of adding a "version attribute" --
- 16:53:06 [ht]
- NW: I'm also not sure that I'm unhappy with the existing GPN -- I'm not happy with the idea that the spec. author has to tell in advance whether there will ever be incompatible changes
- 16:53:48 [ht]
- TVR: Just to make sure that we're not just talking about version attributes alone as the way of indicating version
- 16:53:57 [ht]
- NM: We get to namespaces in the last section
- 16:54:27 [ht]
- TVR: What about DOCTYPE line as a version identifier, which is what the HTML WG are going back and forth about
- 16:54:32 [Norm]
- q?
- 16:54:35 [Norm]
- ack Stuart
- 16:54:35 [Zakim]
- Stuart, you wanted to note that many of the questions the article raises are associated versioning strategy associated with (all versions of) the language.
- 16:55:11 [DanC]
- (er... let's not leave posting mechanics in the someday pile, please.)
- 16:55:37 [ht]
- SW: The questions raised by the article are closely related to the terminology and analysis in the Versioning finding we're working on
- 16:56:06 [ht]
- ... I think Mark Baker's comment [link] are along the same lines
- 16:56:59 [ht]
- NM: I thought his comments (about header metadata) were strictly-speaking out of scope, because the BPN is about _in-band_ identifiers, but metadata is _out-of-band_
- 16:58:30 [ht]
- DC: Movable Type is weblog support software, in some ways the first one
- 16:59:11 [ht]
- ... Karl duBost installed it for W3C and interface it with our CVS system -- this is good, but does introduce a 15-minute delay
- 16:59:23 [Noah]
- Actually, media type is in-band from the point of view of an HTTP response, but we're talking here about specifications for and instance of particular data formats. In general, I don't >think< it's likely that media-types play a big role in the in-the-file versioning formats. Right?
- 16:59:58 [ht]
- ... It supports categories, so if you categorise things they get syndicated, and can then be grabbed by a web page
- 17:00:00 [DanC]
- (yes, analagous to http://www.w3.org/html/ )
- 17:00:40 [ht]
- NM: What about formatting: monospace, display, etc?
- 17:01:14 [ht]
- DC: Karl is pretty good with CSS, I don't know what would happen if I added my own. . .
- 17:03:11 [ht]
- NW: Summarising -- Karl's setup can easily be expanded to allow us to log in, author new entries, categorise them as "TAG" and feed our blog page
- 17:03:30 [ht]
- SW: Different from B2 Evolution -based blogs?
- 17:04:07 [ht]
- DC: Yes -- advantage is it's baked not fried -- that is, the HTML is constructed only once, not on demand from a SQL DB
- 17:04:18 [Zakim]
- +Dave_Orchard
- 17:04:54 [ht]
- TVR: I don't mind what the content management is as long as it doesn't get in the way by producing opaque URIs
- 17:05:21 [ht]
- DC: I think we will got good URIs from Movable Type, including year, month and words from the title
- 17:05:38 [ht]
- topic: location of the TAG blog
- 17:06:16 [Norm]
- -> http//www.w3.org/blog/tag/
- 17:06:16 [DanC]
- (do I read this correctly? 4 objections to <http://www.w3.org/tag/blog> ?)
- 17:08:08 [ht]
- That option was added late, so the no-entries may just be ones who never saw it
- 17:08:10 [Noah]
- Should we just do a prefer/live-with on the two surviving options right now on the phone?
- 17:08:24 [Norm]
- Yes, something like that.
- 17:08:32 [DanC]
- (I suspect http://www.w3.org/blog/tag/ is technically tied to b2evolution)
- 17:09:05 [Noah]
- +1
- 17:09:17 [Rhys]
- +1 to /tag/blog
- 17:09:24 [Norm]
- Proposed: http://www.w3.org/tag/blog/
- 17:09:57 [ht]
- SW: DC, can you organise the top-level 'tag' directory that we will need?
- 17:10:08 [ht]
- DC: Not without approval from TimBL. . .
- 17:10:38 [ht]
- DO: We can resolve on /tag/blog, pending approval
- 17:10:57 [ht]
- NM: I don't think we're in a great rush
- 17:11:13 [Norm]
- No objections.
- 17:11:17 [ht]
- NW: OK, lets try /tag/blog
- 17:11:37 [ht]
- Resolved: To locate the TAG blog at http://www.w3.org/tag/blog
- 17:11:49 [ht]
- Action: DC to try to reach TBL to get approval
- 17:11:49 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-12 - Try to reach TBL to get approval [on Dan Connolly - due 2007-08-20].
- 17:11:52 [Norm]
- Proposed title: TAG Lines
- 17:12:01 [ht]
- NW: Any objections to TAG Lines?
- 17:12:35 [ht]
- Resolved: The TAG blog will be called "TAG Lines", using the mechanisms established by Karl duBost
- 17:13:22 [ht]
- Action: DC to ask KdB if categories can be restricted to particular login lists
- 17:13:22 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-13 - Ask KdB if categories can be restricted to particular login lists [on Dan Connolly - due 2007-08-20].
- 17:13:43 [Norm]
- zakim, who's making noise?
- 17:13:55 [Zakim]
- Norm, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dave_Orchard (15%)
- 17:15:52 [ht]
- NM: We should try to use the description of whatever category we pick to make clear that it's for TAG members only
- 17:16:17 [ht]
- DC: I'd be happy if Yves Lafon wrote something about caching for him to use the category 'web architecture'
- 17:16:33 [ht]
- HST: Then we shouldn't use 'web architecture' for the TAG blog
- 17:17:02 [ht]
- NM: So two categories then, 'web architecture' and 'TAG Member', and I should use both for my post?
- 17:17:06 [ht]
- DC, HST: Yes
- 17:17:20 [ht]
- topic: httpRange-14 finding status
- 17:17:30 [Stuart]
- q+
- 17:17:42 [ht]
- RL: New draft coming soon, significantly changed, lots of new material
- 17:17:58 [Norm]
- ack Stuart
- 17:18:25 [ht]
- ... available soon, then I'm mostly away until just before the f2f, so you all can review
- 17:18:57 [ht]
- SW: I think we've had problems if we try to discuss things that aren't public. . .
- 17:19:20 [ht]
- RL: My plan was to put it in public space, but not announce it publicly
- 17:19:31 [ht]
- DC: Hmmm, I'd rather it were just out there
- 17:19:44 [ht]
- RL: But I won't be available to answer comments
- 17:20:08 [ht]
- NM: I've found that just saying that works pretty well
- 17:20:29 [ht]
- RL: OK, I'll go ahead and do that
- 17:20:54 [ht]
- topic: Request from Ted Guild for BP Note on caching schema documents
- 17:21:44 [ht]
- NW: Background: W3C servers get hammered by tools which don't cache schema documents which they request very frequently
- 17:21:55 [ht]
- TVR: I don't see that this is a TAG issue
- 17:23:35 [ht]
- HST: I think it's a TAG issue, but not restricted to schema docs -- the Web provides for caching, if you anticipate large volumes of traffic from your site, or sites which use your software, to one or more stable resources, you should provide for caches
- 17:23:59 [Norm]
- q+ davo
- 17:24:06 [Norm]
- ack davo
- 17:24:20 [ht]
- NM: More than that, I think our interest here follows from the advice to use only one URI for any given resource
- 17:24:53 [ht]
- DO: New issue or not, I think we should take it on, because it follows from our advice on avoiding multiple URIs
- 17:25:11 [ht]
- ... We should follow through on the ramifications of our recommendations
- 17:25:15 [DanC]
- (it's also true that people shy away from http URIs because they fear their server will melt down.)
- 17:26:01 [DanC]
- name brainstorm... httpCaching... hotSpot...
- 17:26:09 [ht]
- NW: I hear consensus we should take this up. New issue, or attached to an existing one? If new, then what name?
- 17:26:58 [Norm]
- ...representationCaching...managingHotURIs...
- 17:27:02 [ht]
- SW: schemas only?
- 17:27:16 [ht]
- TVR: No
- 17:27:30 [Norm]
- ...scalabilityOfPopularURIs
- 17:27:34 [ht]
- HST: schemas, stylesheets (XSLT, CSS, ...)
- 17:27:36 [Norm]
- ...uriScalability
- 17:27:37 [ht]
- TVR: Images
- 17:27:43 [ht]
- HST: Lists of e.g. language codes
- 17:27:59 [DanC]
- (caching proxies aren't enough in some cases... in some cases, products that ship with URIs hadcoded might as well ship with a representation hardcoded, and only phone home once every 6 months.)
- 17:28:03 [Stuart]
- ...frequentlyAccessedResources
- 17:28:42 [Norm]
- Right. Web frameworks running on end-user-machines don't have caching proxies necessarily
- 17:29:02 [ht]
- TVR: The architectural problem is in part that the publisher of a popular URI cannot in general ensure responsible caching by clients
- 17:29:18 [ht]
- q+ to point out MSoft's response
- 17:30:03 [Stuart]
- q+ to suggest advice should include advice to folk deploying such static resources to set expiry time
- 17:30:04 [ht]
- NM: But we do expect providers of e.g. popular home pages to scale up the servers in keeping with demand
- 17:30:28 [DanC]
- ("economics aside" is not a tactic I want us to take. I want us to keep economics in mind.)
- 17:30:35 [Norm]
- ack ht
- 17:30:35 [Zakim]
- ht, you wanted to point out MSoft's response
- 17:30:38 [Stuart]
- q-
- 17:30:42 [ht]
- ... So maybe the W3C is actually at fault here -- what's the division of responsiblity between provider and consumer
- 17:30:57 [Noah]
- FWIW: I the reason I thought this discussion was useful was to >scope< the issue, which I think should go beyond caching
- 17:31:32 [Norm]
- ...scalabilityOfPopularResources
- 17:31:44 [Norm]
- scalabilityForPopularResources
- 17:31:59 [DanC]
- (I prefer URI to resource in this case, even though it's wrong. But oh well.)
- 17:32:25 [DanC]
- cachingBestPractices
- 17:32:35 [Noah]
- On economics, I agree, but when you say "ignoring economics for the moment" helps you to tease out which compromises you're making for mainly technical and which mainly economic. I claim that if W3C's funding were like Google's, they might not bother to lock out people who hit them at the rates we see.
- 17:32:51 [Norm]
- scalabilityOfURIAccess
- 17:32:57 [Noah]
- But yes, the fact that many providers can't afford to scale is a crucial (economic) piece of the puzzle.
- 17:33:25 [Norm]
- Proposed: The TAG accept a new issue, scalabilityOfURIAccess-58
- 17:33:43 [DanC]
- aye, and I don't care about the number
- 17:34:02 [ht]
- Resolved: the TAG accepts a new issue scalabilityOfURIAccess-58
- 17:34:27 [ht]
- NW: Someone willing to summarize this and send it to the list?
- 17:34:45 [ht]
- DC: NW, did Ted Guild's message cover the background?
- 17:35:08 [ht]
- NW: Not all. I'll take the action
- 17:35:11 [DanC]
- http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/06/20/proxy_caching
- 17:35:36 [ht]
- NM: Do try to indicate that this isn't _just_ about caching
- 17:35:38 [ht]
- NW: Will do
- 17:35:40 [Zakim]
- -Raman
- 17:35:48 [ht]
- Action: NW to announce the new issue
- 17:35:48 [trackbot-ng]
- Created ACTION-14 - Announce the new issue [on Norman Walsh - due 2007-08-20].
- 17:35:53 [Zakim]
- -Dave_Orchard
- 17:35:55 [Zakim]
- -Norm
- 17:35:56 [Zakim]
- -Rhys
- 17:35:58 [Zakim]
- -Ht
- 17:35:59 [Zakim]
- -Noah_Mendelsohn
- 17:36:12 [Zakim]
- -Stuart
- 17:36:13 [ht]
- zakim, who was here?
- 17:36:14 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, ht.
- 17:36:22 [ht]
- zakim, bye
- 17:36:22 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Raman, DanC, Ht, Stuart, Rhys, Norm, Noah_Mendelsohn, Dave_Orchard
- 17:36:23 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #tagmem
- 17:36:40 [ht]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-visible.
- 17:36:46 [ht]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
- 17:37:07 [ht]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 17:37:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-minutes.html ht
- 19:54:18 [Norm]
- Norm has joined #tagmem
- 20:16:31 [Norm]
- rrsagent, bye
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-actions.rdf :
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Stuart to put up straw poll to try to find a new slot for this meeting [1]
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc#T16-06-14
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: SW to create new TAG issue called "HTTP Redirections" per minutes of 16/7/07 [2]
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc#T16-09-07
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: SW to discuss TAG slot at TP with Steve Bratt, informed by above discussion [3]
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc#T16-26-57
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: SW to tell Steve Bratt that the TAG doesn't want a slot at the AC meeting [4]
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc#T16-33-38
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: DC to try to reach TBL to get approval [5]
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc#T17-11-49
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: DC to ask KdB if categories can be restricted to particular login lists [6]
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc#T17-13-22
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: NW to announce the new issue [7]
- 20:16:31 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/13-tagmem-irc#T17-35-48